Water Electrolysis compilation for proving H4O, not H2O
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Archimedes Plutonium<[email protected]>
Aug 21, 2023, 4:49:07 PM (2 days ago)
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Reduction:: 2H2O(liquid) + 2monopoles- ---> H2(gas) + 2OH- (aqueous) at cathode Oxidation:: 2H2O(liquid) ----> O2(gas) + 4H+(aqueous) + 4monopole- at anode

My fear is on how to weigh the gases collecting in the test tubes, without contaminating the tubes upon weighing for mass. And this is probably why no-one in physics or chemistry ever thought to weigh the masses in atomic units for if AP is correct the
hydrogen is 1/4 the oxygen in atomic mass units. If dullard Jim and the Mainstream is correct, the hydrogen is 1/8 of the oxygen in amu.

Why does AP claim water must be H4O and the hydrogen atom is actually H2 and not H alone?? Because AP believes all science is Symmetrical, and that a proton with muon inside doing the Faraday law without at least 1 neutron working as a capacitor is Anti-
symmetry. Thus, when H and H combine, one of the proton+muon inside the proton turns into a neutron-like capacitor for the other H.

And the Water Electrolysis Experiment is the perfect experiment to prove Water is H4O. It is as if all water is heavy water. And that deuterium is simply a H2 where the one H is fully a neutron. Nature does not find H all alone, not even in the Sun is
the hydrogen H but rather H2 for H2 is Atomic Hydrogen.

Jim is both too dumb&lazy to ever look things up before opening big dumb mouth.

It is time for AP to put to work all the new chemistry textbooks I bought some years back.

The first one has an excellent account.

CHEMISTRY, Wilbraham, Staley, Matta, Waterman, 2008, page 680 gives an excellent picture and accounting what goes on in Water electrolysis.

Reduction:: 2H2O(liquid) + 2monopoles- ---> H2(gas) + 2OH- (aqueous) at cathode Oxidation:: 2H2O(liquid) ----> O2(gas) + 4H+(aqueous) + 4monopole- at anode

Poor Jim seems to be stuck back at the ideal gas laws and not yet arrived at electrochemistry.

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 4:01:10 PM UTC-5, Jim Pennino wrote:

Archimedes Plutonium <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip 529 lines of repeated nonsense>

Nothing left and AP still does not understand what pV = nRT means.

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Archimedes Plutonium<[email protected]>
Aug 22, 2023, 2:18:14 AM (yesterday)
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Now, Oxtoby & Nachtrieb PRINCIPLES OF MODERN CHEMISTRY, 2nd edition, 1990, page 387, do something different for they have H3O in cathode.

2H3O+(aq) + 2monopole- ---> H2(g) + 2H2O(liq) cathode
3H2O(liq) ------> 1/2 O2 (g) + 2H3O+ (aq) + 2monopole- anode

H2O (liq) ------> H2 (g) + 1/2 O2 (g)

Let me go back and fill in what the other textbook had.

CHEMISTRY, Wilbraham, Staley, Matta, Waterman, 2008, page 680 gives an excellent picture and accounting what goes on in Water electrolysis.

Reduction:: 2H2O(liquid) + 2monopoles- ---> H2(gas) + 2OH- (aqueous) at cathode Oxidation:: 2H2O(liquid) ----> O2(gas) + 4H+(aqueous) + 4monopole- at anode

Overall cell reaction: 6H2O (liq) ------> 2H2(g) + O2 (g) + 4H+ (aq) + 4OH- (aq)

I am trying to digest on how these different authors can vary so much in reactions, the H3O.

AP

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Archimedes Plutonium
Aug 22, 2023, 3:55:04 PM (yesterday)
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CHEM ONE Waser, Trueblood, Knobler, 2nd edition, 1980 does a poor job on Water electrolysis, not even
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Archimedes Plutonium
Aug 23, 2023, 2:13:01 AM (22 hours ago)
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On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 2:18:14 AM UTC-5 Archimedes Plutonium wrote: Now, Oxtoby &
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Archimedes Plutonium
Aug 23, 2023, 2:40:41 AM (22 hours ago)
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Alright, let me get started on the most important ideas of Electrolysis, the geometry explanation,
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Archimedes Plutonium<[email protected]>
Aug 23, 2023, 3:10:06 AM (21 hours ago)
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CHEMISTRY, Wilbraham, Staley, Matta, Waterman, 2008, page 680 gives an excellent picture and accounting what goes on in Water electrolysis.

Reduction:: 2H2O(liquid) + 2monopoles- ---> H2(gas) + 2OH- (aqueous) at cathode
Oxidation:: 2H2O(liquid) ----> O2(gas) + 4H+(aqueous) + 4monopole- at anode

Alright, easy to see that the H2(gas) comes off filling the one test tube and the 2OH-(aqueous) remain in solution.

Difficult to explain why the 4H+ does not fill the anode test tube along with O2 gas. What in fact is 4H+ (aqueous). Is it purely some algebra concoction to make the equation balanced???

Is there a way of checking whether some hydrogen gas is among the anode test tube??

I may regret getting involved with this.

AP
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Archimedes Plutonium<[email protected]>
Aug 23, 2023, 10:30:04 AM (14 hours ago)
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I probably will end up regretting of ever having wandered over here. For there is something deeply wrong in Old Chemistry's water electrolysis. Notice for instance most chemists have 2H2O, while Oxtoby and Nachtrieb felt they had to start with 2H3O.

If Water Electrolysis is completely known, for sure, all the formulas and equations should be the same.

I am having enormous difficulty in seeing how some oxygen gas does not mix with the hydrogen test tube, and on the other side, how some hydrogen gas does not go up and enter the oxygen test tube. I find it difficult to see that each test tube is pure
oxygen or pure hydrogen.

So on the hydrogen test tube, when you strip the hydrogen from H2O, how is that oxygen atom escape from not going up into the hydrogen test tube? And on the other side, as you form O2 molecules in that test tube, how is it that no hydrogen stripped from
the O atom makes its way up into the oxygen test tube and result in a mixture?

Is the salt electrolyte what prevents the mixing?

So, in all the electrolysis experiments, has there been so proof testing that the test tubes are 100% pure of either oxygen or hydrogen?? And none having a mixture??


On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 2:20:45 AM UTC-5, Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

Water Electrolysis compilation for proving H4O, not H2O

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Archimedes Plutonium<[email protected]>
Aug 21, 2023, 4:49:07 PM (9 hours ago)
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Now, Oxtoby & Nachtrieb PRINCIPLES OF MODERN CHEMISTRY, 2nd edition, 1990, page 387, do something different for they have H3O in cathode.

2H3O+(aq) + 2monopole- ---> H2(g) + 2H2O(liq) cathode
3H2O(liq) ------> 1/2 O2 (g) + 2H3O+ (aq) + 2monopole- anode

H2O (liq) ------> H2 (g) + 1/2 O2 (g)

Let me go back and fill in what the other textbook had.

CHEMISTRY, Wilbraham, Staley, Matta, Waterman, 2008, page 680 gives an excellent picture and accounting what goes on in Water electrolysis.

Reduction:: 2H2O(liquid) + 2monopoles- ---> H2(gas) + 2OH- (aqueous) at cathode
Oxidation:: 2H2O(liquid) ----> O2(gas) + 4H+(aqueous) + 4monopole- at anode

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Archimedes Plutonium<[email protected]>
Aug 23, 2023, 11:08:18 AM (13 hours ago)
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So here, I want to weigh the mass of the oxygen and hydrogen test tubes to prove either H4O or to prove the mainstream's H2O. Personally I feel the experiments favor AP and it turns out the hydrogen is 1/4 in atomic mass units per oxygen. If Mainstream
is correct, it should be 1/8.

AP is driven by Symmetry. The same symmetry that drove Dirac to the magnetic monopole. A atom cannot exist without a capacitor, and so all atoms have at least one neutron. That means H2 is not a molecule but a atom of hydrogen, and one of the protons
acts like a neutron.

But in researching Electrolysis of Water, there are vast swathes of that science murky and clouded in formulas.

I would bet that not even Asimov in all his clear writings could give an account of what is going on in Water electrolysis. And I certainly worry about the education system in freshman College teaching water electrolysis, with never a teacher hand
walking what 2 molecules of water undergo in electrolysis. Leaving students only with a picture and several equations.

Did Asimov take 2 molecules of H2O and explain what happens to them as they are separated of hydrogen and oxygen?? I doubt it. Leaving college students paniced because no teacher can make a clear teaching of what is going on.

So not only did Old Chemistry forget to weigh for mass of the oxygen test tube and the hydrogen test tube. But Old Chemistry, never verified the test tubes were 100% pure oxygen and 100% pure hydrogen. Or if each test tube ends up being a mixture of both.

AP
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Archimedes Plutonium<[email protected]>
Aug 23, 2023, 11:27:40 AM (13 hours ago)
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On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 11:11:18 AM UTC-5, Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

Water Electrolysis compilation for proving H4O, not H2O
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Reduction:: 2H2O(liquid) + 2monopoles- ---> H2(gas) + 2OH- (aqueous) at cathode
Oxidation:: 2H2O(liquid) ----> O2(gas) + 4H+(aqueous) + 4monopole- at anode

So, well, let me take an Occam's Razor to the above, as the easiest way of describing Electrolysis of Water and its end result.

The cathode is correct but the 2OH- hitch a ride with the electrolyte and are forced to move over to the anode. Once the 2OH- attached to the electrolyte reaches the anode, the 2O is separated from the 2OH- and the 2H moves onward with the electrolyte.

In my mind that would be the easiest of easy explanations. It causes the electrolyte to keep the test tubes pure of oxygen and pure of hydrogen.

The AP formulas would then look like this with the electrolyte in the transformations.
AP Reduction:: 2H2O(liquid) + 2monopoles- ---> H2(gas) + 2OH- electrolyte(aqueous) at cathode
AP Oxidation:: 2OH- electrolyte (liquid) ----> O2(gas) + Helectrolyte(aqueous) + 2monopole- at anode

The only way I can see of keeping the test tubes pure, is the hydrogen and oxygen utilize the electrolyte.

AP

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Alright, I am going to keep applying Occam's Razor to Water Electrolysis, until I find a scenario that is totally compelling.

You see, in science education few classes and lectures are centered and focused on Logical thought, logical explanation, logical understanding. Much of education is memorization.

I did find a website of many of Asimov's lectures on Chemistry. But his lecture on electrolysis was not sufficient.

What I want to do here is take 2 Water molecules and walk them through electrolysis where O2 gas ends up in the oxygen test tube and where H4 ends up in the hydrogen gas test tube.

I remember in college chemistry class, that there was no lecture to explain this, but rather, read the book and study the pictures and diagrams. To me, this is poor education and does not lead to understanding.

What I want college professors of chemistry to do, to teach electrolysis, is have 2 Water molecules and step walk what happens to them such that the end up in the respective test tubes as gases. This is what is sorely lacking in our chemistry classrooms.
And ends up as nightmares to students come test time.

And perhaps, well, not even the college chemistry professor knows what 2 water molecules go through to end up in the respective test tube.

By a walk through, I mean how the hydrogen is split away from the oxygen, how the oxygen travels through the electrolyte to get over to the oxygen test tube. And dozens of questions of logic. For as far as AP can see, chemistry electrolysis was never
taught correctly, never taught logically, never explained. Just set up some pictures and say to students-- here study and memorize this.

So now, with the dozens of textbooks I have at my disposal I pick on this

CHEMISTRY, Wilbraham, Staley, Matta, Waterman, 2012, as the most recent publications in my library, page 708 and let me logically tear into it.

They list Oxidation first rather than reduction and let me ask if that is the first logical mistake? For the electric current motion starts first to form hydrogen bubbles at the cathode. Am I logically correct on that account, that we should list
Reduction first??? For we should start with the electric current taking effect on Water & electrolyte.


Reduction:: 2H2O(liquid) + 2monopoles- ---> H2(gas) + 2OH- (aqueous) at cathode
Oxidation:: 2H2O(liquid) ----> O2(gas) + 4H+(aqueous) + 4monopole- at anode

Second logical question would of course be how we geometrically split apart 2H2O to form H2 gas and this 2OH-.

Next logical question, does 2OH- move through the liquid?? Does it catch a ride on the electric current? Does the OH- combine with the electrolyte or stay independent?

Many questions in between....

Finally the oxygen test tube. Is all the oxygen coming from 2OH- that traveled from the cathode to the anode?

What happens with the 4H+ aqueous?? Does it travel back to the cathode?

So, a simply Occam's Razor for this post. The start of Electrolysis is the cathode as electric current brings in magnetic monopoles that loosen and free the H2 from 2 molecules of water, and the hydrogen starts filling up the hydrogen test tube, while
the 2OH- starts to travel on the electric current over to the anode.

Once the 2OH- arrive at the anode, the Electrical Potential Difference of Anode strips the remaining hydrogen from 2OH- giving rise to oxygen gas in test tube.

So if AP's above is correct, means the authors half equations are wrong. Wrong in the sense that the Oxidation should be 2OH- ---> O2 gas + 2H+ (aq) + 2monopole-

So who is correct?? AP or the authors Wilbraham, Staley, Matta, Waterman.

When you walk through what happens to two arbitrary water molecules near one another, you are bound to have different equations than if you are just playing a game of Algebra balancing both sides.

AP, King of Science, especially Physics & Logic

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So AP starts where the reaction starts with Reduction to H2 gas.
Reduction:: 2H2O(liquid) + 2-monopoles ---> H2(gas) + 2OH- (aqueous) at cathode
Oxidation:: 2OH- (aqueous) ----> O2(gas) + 2H+(aqueous) + 2-monopole at anode

And we need to write the Oxidation reaction different from Old Chemistry, for the next action to take place is the oxygen gas from 2OH-, not from 2H2O.

That would be the Occam's Razor of Water Electrolysis, and it looks pretty good, except the nagging question of 2H+ (aqueous). Does this go into the test tube with oxygen? Does it travel back to the cathode and eventually find its way into the hydrogen
test tube? Or does the 2H+ combine with the electrolyte and remain a new configuration of the electrolyte?

I realize no chemist or physicist was sharp enough to weigh the mass of the oxygen test tube versus hydrogen test tube, no-one sharp enough for they simply stopped the experiment when they noticed twice the volume of hydrogen to oxygen. But now we weigh
the mass in atomic mass units and AP predicts hydrogen is 1/4 oxygen while mainstream says it is 1/8. If AP is correct, then the true formula of water is H4O and not H2O.

But another project needs to be done also. In measuring the purity of the oxygen test tube and the hydrogen test tube. It may be the case that some of the 2H+ in oxidation ends up in the oxygen test tube, and not 100% pure oxygen. Or, another possibility,
my formula is wrong.

AP

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On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 3:48:44 AM UTC-5, Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

So AP starts where the reaction starts with Reduction to H2 gas.
Reduction:: 2H2O(liquid) + 2-monopoles ---> H2(gas) + 2OH- (aqueous) at cathode
Oxidation:: 2OH- (aqueous) ----> O2(gas) + 2H+(aqueous) + 2-monopole at anode

And we need to write the Oxidation reaction different from Old Chemistry, for the next action to take place is the oxygen gas from 2OH-, not from 2H2O.

That would be the Occam's Razor of Water Electrolysis, and it looks pretty good, except the nagging question of 2H+ (aqueous). Does this go into the test tube with oxygen? Does it travel back to the cathode and eventually find its way into the hydrogen

test tube? Or does the 2H+ combine with the electrolyte and remain a new configuration of the electrolyte?


Yes, so the 2H+ is easy to follow, and in fact the 2OH- is easy to follow, for as we turn on the electricity we first see a column of hydrogen bubbles appear, a few fractions of second later we start to see a column of oxygen bubbles appear as the 2OH-
is transported across the electrodes and arrives at the anode. Finally a fraction of seconds later we see a second column of hydrogen gas bubbles as the 2H+ appear at the cathode, two columns, one from decomposing 2H2O and one from the arrived 2H+
transported from the anode.

I realize no chemist or physicist was sharp enough to weigh the mass of the oxygen test tube versus hydrogen test tube, no-one sharp enough for they simply stopped the experiment when they noticed twice the volume of hydrogen to oxygen. But now we

weigh the mass in atomic mass units and AP predicts hydrogen is 1/4 oxygen while mainstream says it is 1/8. If AP is correct, then the true formula of water is H4O and not H2O.

But another project needs to be done also. In measuring the purity of the oxygen test tube and the hydrogen test tube. It may be the case that some of the 2H+ in oxidation ends up in the oxygen test tube, and not 100% pure oxygen. Or, another

possibility, my formula is wrong.


We must carry out the 2nd project to check for purity but it is rather obvious that the proportion of oxygen to hydrogen gas has to account for 2H2O, and so that means the test tubes are 100% pure hydrogen and pure oxygen.

AP

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On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 8:55:30 AM UTC-5, Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 3:48:44 AM UTC-5, Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

So AP starts where the reaction starts with Reduction to H2 gas. Reduction:: 2H2O(liquid) + 2-monopoles ---> H2(gas) + 2OH- (aqueous) at cathode
Oxidation:: 2OH- (aqueous) ----> O2(gas) + 2H+(aqueous) + 2-monopole at anode

And we need to write the Oxidation reaction different from Old Chemistry, for the next action to take place is the oxygen gas from 2OH-, not from 2H2O.

That would be the Occam's Razor of Water Electrolysis, and it looks pretty good, except the nagging question of 2H+ (aqueous). Does this go into the test tube with oxygen? Does it travel back to the cathode and eventually find its way into the

hydrogen test tube? Or does the 2H+ combine with the electrolyte and remain a new configuration of the electrolyte?

Yes, so the 2H+ is easy to follow, and in fact the 2OH- is easy to follow, for as we turn on the electricity we first see a column of hydrogen bubbles appear, a few fractions of second later we start to see a column of oxygen bubbles appear as the 2OH-

is transported across the electrodes and arrives at the anode. Finally a fraction of seconds later we see a second column of hydrogen gas bubbles as the 2H+ appear at the cathode, two columns for hydrogen, one from decomposing 2H2O and one from the
return back arrival of 2H+ transported from the anode to cathode.

I realize no chemist or physicist was sharp enough to weigh the mass of the oxygen test tube versus hydrogen test tube, no-one sharp enough for they simply stopped the experiment when they noticed twice the volume of hydrogen to oxygen. But now we

weigh the mass in atomic mass units and AP predicts hydrogen is 1/4 oxygen while mainstream says it is 1/8. If AP is correct, then the true formula of water is H4O and not H2O.

But another project needs to be done also. In measuring the purity of the oxygen test tube and the hydrogen test tube. It may be the case that some of the 2H+ in oxidation ends up in the oxygen test tube, and not 100% pure oxygen. Or, another

possibility, my formula is wrong.

We must carry out the 2nd project to check for purity but it is rather obvious that the proportion of oxygen to hydrogen gas has to account for 2H2O, and so that means the test tubes are 100% pure hydrogen and pure oxygen.

So if my above is accurate, well, there needs to be done the weighing of the oxygen test tube and hydrogen test tube to answer the question is water H4O or is it H2O. If AP is correct with H4O means the hydrogen test tube is 1/4 the atomic mass units of
oxygen test tube, if mainstream is correct it is 1/8.

Now in one of the pictures of the many chemistry books I have shows a valve on top of the test tubes. I am trying to see how best to engineer the experiment to get all the oxygen and all the hydrogen on a weighing scale without pollution of the two test
tubes. Hard for me to visualize someone making a YouTube video of Water Electrolysis that ends up weighing the two test tubes.

But can I spot a place in the reaction of Electrolysis that requires water to be H4O? Perhaps, in the Oxidation:: 2OH- (aqueous) ----> O2(gas) + 2H+(aqueous) + 2-monopole at anode. In that oxidation phase the construction of 2H+, if water were H4O makes
more sense, because you have 2 protons for each hydrogen, whereas H2O has one proton for each H. And this also makes the explanation of 2OH- easier at the cathode phase. Why strip 2H2O of one H leaving behind one OH-.

But weighing the mass of the test tubes is clinching proof.

AP

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