• There is no logic here (Was: Quine's "Word & Object")

    From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Ross Finlayson on Sun Mar 23 14:49:29 2025
    XPost: sci.math

    On 23/03/2025 03:46, Ross Finlayson wrote:

    If you start taking a look at Word & Object, Quine is
    plenty voluble about modern logics' efforts, and problems.

    Which he phrases in nice sorts of ways as sort of allusion
    to criticism then though sometimes the waffling.

    Strawson though stands out as sort of uncontradicted,
    especially when Quine's "relevance" is sort of the
    opposite of what's usually meant, for relevance logic.

    Yet, then Strawson also himself wrote himself into
    the corner of modern logic, though at least he's less

    Says who? Rather one is a logicist and the lying with numbers,
    the other is a logician proper: guess who's who.

    Just take "Sinn und Bedeutung": how to build a whole edifice
    on the basis on the systematic misplacement and misuse of even
    the most basic philosophical (in the broad sense) notions.
    Which is but one little example out of the whole edifice of
    our inculture and incivilization: insanity, alienation, abuse,
    and the systematic lying.

    Indeed, Strawson isn't less misrepresented then ignored than
    Socrates vs Plato/Aristotle, or Leibniz vs Kant/Newton, or the
    first Wittgenstein vs Frege/Russell...

    Rather, read Strawson's "Introduction to Logical Theory" if you
    want to know what (modern) Logic actually is: or, would/could/
    should/used to be. Or, is.

    -Julio

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Julio Di Egidio on Sun Mar 23 15:59:29 2025
    On 23/03/2025 14:49, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 23/03/2025 03:46, Ross Finlayson wrote:

    Indeed, Strawson isn't less misrepresented then ignored than
    Socrates vs Plato/Aristotle, or Leibniz vs Kant/Newton, or the
    first Wittgenstein vs Frege/Russell...

    Or Euclid, who's the father of Logic proper, how to reason validly
    and cogently, yet passes for the father of mathematics as axiomatics, eventually up to the "categories", strictly mathematical of course...

    I'll stop there, it's just all over the place. So much so that I
    think recognising and enacting it is a personal responsibility, of
    the not (yet? anymore!) totally oblivious.

    -Julio

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Julio Di Egidio on Sun Mar 23 15:24:33 2025
    On 23/03/2025 14:49, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 23/03/2025 03:46, Ross Finlayson wrote:

    If you start taking a look at Word & Object, Quine is
    plenty voluble about modern logics' efforts, and problems.

    Which he phrases in nice sorts of ways as sort of allusion
    to criticism then though sometimes the waffling.

    Strawson though stands out as sort of uncontradicted,
    especially when Quine's "relevance" is sort of the
    opposite of what's usually meant, for relevance logic.

    Yet, then Strawson also himself wrote himself into
    the corner of modern logic, though at least he's less

    Says who?  Rather one is a logicist and the lying with numbers,
    the other is a logician proper: guess who's who.

    Just take "Sinn und Bedeutung": how to build a whole edifice
    on the basis on the systematic misplacement and misuse of even
    the most basic philosophical (in the broad sense) notions.
    Which is but one little example out of the whole edifice of
    our inculture and incivilization: insanity, alienation, abuse,
    and the systematic lying.

    Indeed, Strawson isn't less misrepresented then ignored than
    Socrates vs Plato/Aristotle, or Leibniz vs Kant/Newton, or the
    first Wittgenstein vs Frege/Russell...

    Rather, read Strawson's "Introduction to Logical Theory" if you
    want to know what (modern) Logic actually is: or, would/could/
    should/used to be.  Or, is.

    P.S. For example:

    << Introduction to Logical Theory (1952) shows that symbolic
    logic does not capture the complexity of ordinary language. >> <https://books.google.it/books/about/Introduction_to_Logical_Theory.html?id=sQ_7ZJG0JlIC>

    Not per chance, the very opposite is true: it's *formal* logic
    that is shown to be rather insignificant (per se), on the other
    hand, *symbolic* logic does go with Logic proper.

    Indeed, good luck with your scavenging, as not all books have
    yet been burned, but the dictionary and index are fully mangled.

    -Julio

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Ross Finlayson on Sun Mar 23 16:44:57 2025
    XPost: sci.math

    On 23/03/2025 16:19, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/23/2025 06:49 AM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 23/03/2025 03:46, Ross Finlayson wrote:

    Sort of like W.H.F. Barnes or R.G. Collingwood, yet really for
    both Kant and Hegel, who both had both a strong analytical
    and thoroughly idealistic course, has that Quine's wrestling
    with concepts of logical paradox, never sees him quite win,
    which can only result from resolving them.

    I do have given you a/the resolution, then you keep calling
    *me* an/the idealist. Indeed, if all you have is a/that
    hammer, ideally then materially, *and* not giving it up.

    Thanks for your reply, and please explain how there can be
    a true theory overall at all, vis-a-vis some ideal Comenius
    language and our mere human inter-subjective Coleridge language,
    that there is one at all results from plain reason.

    You are welcome. The short answer there is: your question
    is as ill-founded as your "philosophy" (your dictionary and
    index); indeed, who said Logic is about "ultimate truth(s?)"?

    Related: what is Philosophy?

    -Julio

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Julio Di Egidio on Sun Mar 23 17:05:29 2025
    XPost: sci.math

    On 23/03/2025 16:44, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 23/03/2025 16:19, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/23/2025 06:49 AM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 23/03/2025 03:46, Ross Finlayson wrote:

    Sort of like W.H.F. Barnes or R.G. Collingwood, yet really for
    both Kant and Hegel, who both had both a strong analytical
    and thoroughly idealistic course, has that Quine's wrestling
    with concepts of logical paradox, never sees him quite win,
    which can only result from resolving them.

    I do have given you a/the resolution, then you keep calling
    *me* an/the idealist.  Indeed, if all you have is a/that
    hammer, ideally then materially, *and* not giving it up.

    Thanks for your reply, and please explain how there can be
    a true theory overall at all, vis-a-vis some ideal Comenius
    language and our mere human inter-subjective Coleridge language,
    that there is one at all results from plain reason.

    You are welcome.  The short answer there is: your question
    is as ill-founded as your "philosophy" (your dictionary and
    index); indeed, who said Logic is about "ultimate truth(s?)"?

    But I had already given you the long answer, and it's neither
    the Devine language, nor the Babel's tower: <https://seprogrammo.blogspot.com/2024/01/on-logic-of-it.html>

    Related: what is Philosophy?

    Can you read at all? ;)

    -Julio

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