• Re: What is it, a Bird or an Airplane? (Was: Happy Now? (Was: Please be

    From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Mild Shock on Sat Dec 21 01:58:17 2024
    On 21/12/2024 01:30, Mild Shock wrote:
    Hi,

    Could you define what you mean by "gentzen"?

    Really?? This is what I mean by "gentzen" (lowercase):

    <https://gist.github.com/jp-diegidio/b6a7a071f9f81a469c493c4afcc5cb11>

    Code is law! All else failing...

    Can you convert this proof:

    ?- prove(pos, []=>(a->(a->b))->(a->b), Ps).
    Ps = [impI,impI,impE(1),[init(0)],[impE(0),[init(0)],[init(0)]]] ;
    false

    Into a BCK expression?

    I'll see if I can figure it out.

    -Julio

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  • From Mild Shock@21:1/5 to Julio Di Egidio on Sat Dec 21 02:03:30 2024
    Well you have to name it natural deduction
    and not gentzen. It goes back to Stanisław Jaśkowski:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Ja%C5%9Bkowski

    The paper is this here:

    https://www.logik.ch/daten/jaskowski.pdf

    Gentzens innovation was probably the Sequent
    Calculus and not the natural deduction.

    Julio Di Egidio schrieb:
    On 21/12/2024 01:30, Mild Shock wrote:
    Hi,

    Could you define what you mean by "gentzen"?

    Really?? This is what I mean by "gentzen" (lowercase):

    <https://gist.github.com/jp-diegidio/b6a7a071f9f81a469c493c4afcc5cb11>

    Code is law!  All else failing...

    Can you convert this proof:

    ?- prove(pos, []=>(a->(a->b))->(a->b), Ps).
    Ps = [impI,impI,impE(1),[init(0)],[impE(0),[init(0)],[init(0)]]] ;
    false

    Into a BCK expression?

    I'll see if I can figure it out.

    -Julio


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  • From Mild Shock@21:1/5 to Mild Shock on Sat Dec 21 02:06:38 2024
    At least this would resolve the disambiguity that
    the name Gentzen refers to two completely different
    deduktive systems:

    - NK/NJ: Classical and Intuitionistic Natural Deduction
    The rules are called elimination/introduction rules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_deduction

    - LK/LJ: Classical and Intuitionistic Sequent Calculus
    The rules are called left/right rules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequent_calculus

    They have fundamentaly different proof shapes.

    Mild Shock schrieb:
    Well you have to name it natural deduction
    and not gentzen. It goes back to Stanisław Jaśkowski:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Ja%C5%9Bkowski

    The paper is this here:

    https://www.logik.ch/daten/jaskowski.pdf

    Gentzens innovation was probably the Sequent
    Calculus and not the natural deduction.

    Julio Di Egidio schrieb:
    On 21/12/2024 01:30, Mild Shock wrote:
    Hi,

    Could you define what you mean by "gentzen"?

    Really?? This is what I mean by "gentzen" (lowercase):

    <https://gist.github.com/jp-diegidio/b6a7a071f9f81a469c493c4afcc5cb11>

    Code is law!  All else failing...

    Can you convert this proof:

    ?- prove(pos, []=>(a->(a->b))->(a->b), Ps).
    Ps = [impI,impI,impE(1),[init(0)],[impE(0),[init(0)],[init(0)]]] ;
    false

    Into a BCK expression?

    I'll see if I can figure it out.

    -Julio



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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Mild Shock on Sat Dec 21 02:11:28 2024
    On 21/12/2024 02:03, Mild Shock wrote:

    Well you have to name it natural deduction
    and not gentzen. It goes back to Stanisław Jaśkowski:

    I prefer calling things by their name, you a spamming moron.

    -Julio

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  • From Mild Shock@21:1/5 to Julio Di Egidio on Sat Dec 21 15:43:51 2024
    Well you have wrong names for your rules:

    % (C=>X->Y) --> [(C,X=>Y)]
    reduction(impI, (C=>X->Y), [[X|C]=>Y], []).

    % (C,X->Y=>Z) --> [(C=>X),(C,Y=>Z)]
    reduction(impE, (C0=>Z), [C=>X,[Y|C]=>Z], [H]) :-
    use_hyp((_->_), C0, (X->Y), C, H).

    They should be called impR and impL.
    They are both introduction rules and not from
    natural deduction but from sequent calculus.

    **You might want to check Jens
    Ottens leanSeq for correct names**

    They are usually displayed with R and L,
    for Right introduction and Left introduction,
    backward search formulation with large context C:

    C, X ⊢ Y
    -------------- (R⊃)
    C ⊢ X ⊃ Y

    C ⊢ X C, Y ⊢ Z
    --------------------- (L⊃)
    C, X ⊃ Y ⊢ Z

    In sequent calculus there are only Right
    introduction and Left introduction for
    the analytic part of the calculus that works

    analytically on the different connectives.
    On the the other hand natural deduction has
    Introducton I rules and Elimination E rules,

    and the calculus is non-analytic. The rules
    would be totally different than what your code
    uses and but wrongly labels with intro and elim:

    C, X ⊢ Y
    -------------- (I⊃)
    C ⊢ X ⊃ Y

    C ⊢ X C ⊢ X ⊃ Y
    --------------------- (E⊃)
    C ⊢ Y

    The only shape agreement between natural deduction
    and sequent calculus is the introduction rules
    und right rules usually are the same inference rules,

    i.e. we have (I⊃) = (R⊃). But the elimination rules
    and left rules are usually differently shaped,
    i.e. we have (E⊃) != (L⊃).

    Julio Di Egidio schrieb:
    On 21/12/2024 02:03, Mild Shock wrote:

    Well you have to name it natural deduction
    and not gentzen. It goes back to Stanisław Jaśkowski:

    I prefer calling things by their name, you a spamming moron.

    -Julio


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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Mild Shock on Sat Dec 21 16:34:27 2024
    On 21/12/2024 15:43, Mild Shock wrote:

    Well you have wrong names for your rules:

    Weren't you the one saying "who cares about the names on the bottles"?
    Not that I agree.

    Besides, I do not have wrong names and even less wrong rules, you are a spamming moron. Whether you can actually read remains a mystery to this
    point.

    -Julio

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