• Re: x true. but only if it IS true.

    From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Aug 7 07:44:36 2024
    On 8/6/24 7:47 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 8/6/2024 3:19 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-04 12:04:23 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/4/2024 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-03 13:44:25 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/3/2024 4:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-02 12:19:31 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/2/2024 1:43 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-07-31 14:46:17 +0000, olcott said:

    On 7/31/2024 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-07-30 13:40:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 7/30/2024 2:33 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-07-29 00:44:41 +0000, olcott said:

    The truth about every expression of language that can be known >>>>>>>>>>>>> to be true on the basis of its meaning expressed in
    language is
    that a lack of connection simply means untrue.

    Does that really mean something? If the significance of the >>>>>>>>>>>> lack of
    connection is restricted to sentences where the connection >>>>>>>>>>>> exists
    then it seems that you are talking about nothing.


    https://plato.stanford.edu/Entries/analytic-synthetic/
    I had to redefine the analytic side of the analytic/synthetic >>>>>>>>>>> distinction because Quine convinced most everyone that this >>>>>>>>>>> distinction does not exist.

    You cannot redefine side wihout redefining the other side and the >>>>>>>>>> distinction itself. Is your redefinition equivalent to the one >>>>>>>>>> at https://plato.stanford.edu/Entries/analytic-synthetic/ or did >>>>>>>>>> you find out that that distincition is not the one that exists? >>>>>>>>>
    Quine got totally confused by synonymity. He never understood >>>>>>>>> that the term {Bachelor} was defined in terms of
    (~Married + Adult + Male).

    It is not a good idea to lie about other people.

    When reqding Quine, you should ask yourself why your presentation >>>>>>>> is much less convincing than Quine's.

    Try and show the details of how I am incorrect.

    What you said (quoted above) about Quine is insulting and
    unjustified,
    which alone is wrong.

    The bottom line here is that every objection that he could
    have possibly made is addressed by this augmentation to
    the definition of {analytic truth}

    *Original definition* of {Analytic truth}
    Every expression of (formal or natural language) that is
    true on the basis of its meaning...

    So what is wrong with Quines opinion that the truth of "A bachelor
    is not married" comes from the meaning of the words?


    If he said that then he would be saying that he has no
    objection to the {Analytic/Synthetic} distinction. He is
    famous for having an objection to this.

    What makes you thing he has no objection not involving batchelors to
    the analytinc/synthetic distinction?


    I only skimmed his paper. I don't have to even look at anything
    that said besides his conclusion to know that it is wrong.


    That is your problem, since you don't know exactly what he is talking
    about, your CAN'T know that his conclusion is wrong.


    It is a tautology to say that expressions of language that
    are true or false on the basis of their meaning are established
    as true of false by a contiguous sequence of truth preserving
    operations as truth-makers between (x or ~x) and the expressions
    of language that make (x or ~x) true.
    '

    Except that "expressions of language" when that language is a natural
    langauge, do not necessarily have a single meaning that can make it true
    or not.

    Something you seem to not understand, or don't want to admit, as it
    shows how YOUR arguements are flawed.

    For instance, the phrase "DDD simuated by HHH" could be talking about
    the behavior of the behavior of the full program DDD that HHH is
    simulating (which is actually the perfered meaning by the grammer), or
    you could streach it to be the simulation of DDD by HHH. You make claims
    that are true for the second, and then try to apply them to the first.

    Or you "correct simulation" phrase, which standardly means a complete
    and correct simulation, you try to extend to include partial simulations
    (which it does mean at times), but you want that second meaning to
    include all the properties that the first meaning contains, when it doesn't.

    This just shows you take you lead from the father of lies, that has
    always used wordplay to make his statements sound like the might be
    true, when they contain essential falsehood, to try to trap people.

    It looks like you are just rolling around in his trap and are loving it.

    Sorry to inform you that when you live a life of lies, that kills your reputation when they get revealed, and your eternity will be determined
    by them.


    When anyone disagrees with the gist of this they are necessarily
    incorrect.




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  • From olcott@21:1/5 to Mikko on Wed Aug 7 09:04:09 2024
    On 8/7/2024 2:54 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-06 11:47:01 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/6/2024 3:19 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-04 12:04:23 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/4/2024 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-03 13:44:25 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/3/2024 4:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-02 12:19:31 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/2/2024 1:43 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-07-31 14:46:17 +0000, olcott said:

    On 7/31/2024 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-07-30 13:40:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 7/30/2024 2:33 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-07-29 00:44:41 +0000, olcott said:

    The truth about every expression of language that can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> known
    to be true on the basis of its meaning expressed in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> language is
    that a lack of connection simply means untrue.

    Does that really mean something? If the significance of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> lack of
    connection is restricted to sentences where the connection >>>>>>>>>>>>> exists
    then it seems that you are talking about nothing.


    https://plato.stanford.edu/Entries/analytic-synthetic/ >>>>>>>>>>>> I had to redefine the analytic side of the analytic/synthetic >>>>>>>>>>>> distinction because Quine convinced most everyone that this >>>>>>>>>>>> distinction does not exist.

    You cannot redefine side wihout redefining the other side and >>>>>>>>>>> the
    distinction itself. Is your redefinition equivalent to the one >>>>>>>>>>> at https://plato.stanford.edu/Entries/analytic-synthetic/ or did >>>>>>>>>>> you find out that that distincition is not the one that exists? >>>>>>>>>>
    Quine got totally confused by synonymity. He never understood >>>>>>>>>> that the term {Bachelor} was defined in terms of
    (~Married + Adult + Male).

    It is not a good idea to lie about other people.

    When reqding Quine, you should ask yourself why your presentation >>>>>>>>> is much less convincing than Quine's.

    Try and show the details of how I am incorrect.

    What you said (quoted above) about Quine is insulting and
    unjustified,
    which alone is wrong.

    The bottom line here is that every objection that he could
    have possibly made is addressed by this augmentation to
    the definition of {analytic truth}

    *Original definition* of {Analytic truth}
    Every expression of (formal or natural language) that is
    true on the basis of its meaning...

    So what is wrong with Quines opinion that the truth of "A bachelor
    is not married" comes from the meaning of the words?


    If he said that then he would be saying that he has no
    objection to the {Analytic/Synthetic} distinction. He is
    famous for having an objection to this.

    What makes you thing he has no objection not involving batchelors to
    the analytinc/synthetic distinction?


    I only skimmed his paper. I don't have to even look at anything
    that said besides his conclusion to know that it is wrong.

    In that case you don't know how sensitive his conclusion is to
    a minor change in argument.


    All that I care about is unambiguously defining the term
    {true on the basis of meaning} so that I can show Tarski and
    Gödel are wrong.

    It is a tautology to say that expressions of language that
    are true or false on the basis of their meaning are established
    as true of false by a contiguous sequence of truth preserving
    operations as truth-makers between (x or ~x) and the expressions
    of language that make (x or ~x) true.

    Which is irrelevant to your false claim about Quine.


    I don't really care whose at fault and how they
    are at fault. I only care about what I said above.

    I have defined {true on the basis of meaning} such
    that there cannot be any rational objections.

    --
    Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Aug 8 09:40:37 2024
    On 2024-08-07 14:04:09 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/7/2024 2:54 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-06 11:47:01 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/6/2024 3:19 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-04 12:04:23 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/4/2024 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-03 13:44:25 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/3/2024 4:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-02 12:19:31 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/2/2024 1:43 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-07-31 14:46:17 +0000, olcott said:

    On 7/31/2024 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-07-30 13:40:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 7/30/2024 2:33 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-07-29 00:44:41 +0000, olcott said:

    The truth about every expression of language that can be known >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be true on the basis of its meaning expressed in language is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that a lack of connection simply means untrue.

    Does that really mean something? If the significance of the lack of
    connection is restricted to sentences where the connection exists
    then it seems that you are talking about nothing.


    https://plato.stanford.edu/Entries/analytic-synthetic/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> I had to redefine the analytic side of the analytic/synthetic >>>>>>>>>>>>> distinction because Quine convinced most everyone that this >>>>>>>>>>>>> distinction does not exist.

    You cannot redefine side wihout redefining the other side and the >>>>>>>>>>>> distinction itself. Is your redefinition equivalent to the one >>>>>>>>>>>> at https://plato.stanford.edu/Entries/analytic-synthetic/ or did >>>>>>>>>>>> you find out that that distincition is not the one that exists? >>>>>>>>>>>
    Quine got totally confused by synonymity. He never understood >>>>>>>>>>> that the term {Bachelor} was defined in terms of
    (~Married + Adult + Male).

    It is not a good idea to lie about other people.

    When reqding Quine, you should ask yourself why your presentation >>>>>>>>>> is much less convincing than Quine's.

    Try and show the details of how I am incorrect.

    What you said (quoted above) about Quine is insulting and unjustified, >>>>>>>> which alone is wrong.

    The bottom line here is that every objection that he could
    have possibly made is addressed by this augmentation to
    the definition of {analytic truth}

    *Original definition* of {Analytic truth}
    Every expression of (formal or natural language) that is
    true on the basis of its meaning...

    So what is wrong with Quines opinion that the truth of "A bachelor >>>>>> is not married" comes from the meaning of the words?


    If he said that then he would be saying that he has no
    objection to the {Analytic/Synthetic} distinction. He is
    famous for having an objection to this.

    What makes you thing he has no objection not involving batchelors to
    the analytinc/synthetic distinction?


    I only skimmed his paper. I don't have to even look at anything
    that said besides his conclusion to know that it is wrong.

    In that case you don't know how sensitive his conclusion is to
    a minor change in argument.


    All that I care about is unambiguously defining the term
    {true on the basis of meaning} so that I can show Tarski and
    Gödel are wrong.

    That does not justify your lies about Quine.

    --
    Mikko

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  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri Aug 9 11:46:49 2024
    On 2024-08-08 16:01:19 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/8/2024 1:40 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-07 14:04:09 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/7/2024 2:54 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-06 11:47:01 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/6/2024 3:19 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-04 12:04:23 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/4/2024 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-03 13:44:25 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/3/2024 4:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-02 12:19:31 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/2/2024 1:43 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-07-31 14:46:17 +0000, olcott said:

    On 7/31/2024 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-07-30 13:40:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 7/30/2024 2:33 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-07-29 00:44:41 +0000, olcott said:

    The truth about every expression of language that can be known
    to be true on the basis of its meaning expressed in language is
    that a lack of connection simply means untrue. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Does that really mean something? If the significance of the lack of
    connection is restricted to sentences where the connection exists
    then it seems that you are talking about nothing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    https://plato.stanford.edu/Entries/analytic-synthetic/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had to redefine the analytic side of the analytic/synthetic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinction because Quine convinced most everyone that this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinction does not exist.

    You cannot redefine side wihout redefining the other side and the
    distinction itself. Is your redefinition equivalent to the one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at https://plato.stanford.edu/Entries/analytic-synthetic/ or did >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you find out that that distincition is not the one that exists? >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Quine got totally confused by synonymity. He never understood >>>>>>>>>>>>> that the term {Bachelor} was defined in terms of
    (~Married + Adult + Male).

    It is not a good idea to lie about other people.

    When reqding Quine, you should ask yourself why your presentation >>>>>>>>>>>> is much less convincing than Quine's.

    Try and show the details of how I am incorrect.

    What you said (quoted above) about Quine is insulting and unjustified,
    which alone is wrong.

    The bottom line here is that every objection that he could
    have possibly made is addressed by this augmentation to
    the definition of {analytic truth}

    *Original definition* of {Analytic truth}
    Every expression of (formal or natural language) that is
    true on the basis of its meaning...

    So what is wrong with Quines opinion that the truth of "A bachelor >>>>>>>> is not married" comes from the meaning of the words?


    If he said that then he would be saying that he has no
    objection to the {Analytic/Synthetic} distinction. He is
    famous for having an objection to this.

    What makes you thing he has no objection not involving batchelors to >>>>>> the analytinc/synthetic distinction?


    I only skimmed his paper. I don't have to even look at anything
    that said besides his conclusion to know that it is wrong.

    In that case you don't know how sensitive his conclusion is to
    a minor change in argument.


    All that I care about is unambiguously defining the term
    {true on the basis of meaning} so that I can show Tarski and
    Gödel are wrong.

    That does not justify your lies about Quine.


    It does seem that he is all hung up on not understanding
    how the synonymity of bachelor and unmarried works.

    What in the synonymity, other than the synonymity itself,
    would be relevant to Quine's topic?

    I don't really give a rat's ass what he said all that matters
    to me is that I have defined expressions of language that are
    {true on the basis of their meaning expressed in language}
    so that I have analytic(Olcott) to make my other points.

    That does not justify lying.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Sat Aug 10 11:11:24 2024
    On 2024-08-09 15:19:47 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/9/2024 3:46 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-08 16:01:19 +0000, olcott said:


    It does seem that he is all hung up on not understanding
    how the synonymity of bachelor and unmarried works.

    What in the synonymity, other than the synonymity itself,
    would be relevant to Quine's topic?


    He mentions it 98 times in his paper
    https://www.ditext.com/quine/quine.html
    I haven't looked at it in years.

    I don't really give a rat's ass what he said all that matters
    to me is that I have defined expressions of language that are
    {true on the basis of their meaning expressed in language}
    so that I have analytic(Olcott) to make my other points.

    That does not justify lying.

    I never lie.

    False pretence to know something whithout trying to find out whether
    it is true is lying.

    Sometimes I make mistakes.

    That is unavoidable. But mistakes must be correted when detected.
    If someone claims that you have made a mistake then it is a iie
    to repeat the alleged mistake without an attempt to check.

    It looks like you only want to dodge the actual
    topic with any distraction that you can find.

    An error is an error even when you deviate from he topic.

    Expressions of language that are {true on the basis of
    their meaning expressed in this same language} defines
    analytic(Olcott) that overcomes any objections that
    anyone can possibly have about the analytic/synthetic
    distinction.

    As long as you don't discuss the synthetic side and claimed border
    cases you have not said anything about the distinction.

    --
    Mikko

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  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Sat Aug 10 11:01:05 2024
    On 2024-08-09 15:19:47 +0000, olcott said:

    On 8/9/2024 3:46 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-08-08 16:01:19 +0000, olcott said:


    It does seem that he is all hung up on not understanding
    how the synonymity of bachelor and unmarried works.

    What in the synonymity, other than the synonymity itself,
    would be relevant to Quine's topic?


    He mentions it 98 times in his paper
    https://www.ditext.com/quine/quine.html
    I haven't looked at it in years.

    So you don't know but want to lie about it.

    --
    Mikko

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