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  • propaganda, collaboration, appeasement

    From retrosorter@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 16 07:18:38 2015
    I read recently in Adrian Room's Dictionary of Changes of Meanings that only in English has the word propaganda obtained a negative taint of being biased. This makes me wonder if the same is true of "appeasement" and "collaboration." As far as I know "
    collaboration" in French doesn't carry the stigma that it does in English and wonder if the same pattern applies to other languages and also to the use of appeasement (or how it is rendered in other languages).

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  • From retrosorter@21:1/5 to retrosorter on Sun Aug 16 17:05:45 2015
    On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 10:18:40 AM UTC-4, retrosorter wrote:
    I read recently in Adrian Room's Dictionary of Changes of Meanings that only in English has the word propaganda obtained a negative taint of being biased. This makes me wonder if the same is true of "appeasement" and "collaboration." As far as I know "
    collaboration" in French doesn't carry the stigma that it does in English and wonder if the same pattern applies to other languages and also to the use of appeasement (or how it is rendered in other languages).



    Room's book was written in 1986. Is it possible that the pejorative sense of propaganda in Dutch only came into usage after this date?

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  • From Evertjan.@21:1/5 to retrosorter on Sun Aug 16 20:04:40 2015
    retrosorter <[email protected]> wrote on 16 Aug 2015 in
    sci.lang.translation:

    I read recently in Adrian Room's Dictionary of Changes of Meanings that
    only in English has the word propaganda obtained a negative taint of
    being biased.

    This Adrian must be a hell of a fellow
    knowing all the tiny differencers in meaning
    of all[!!!] other languages.

    I need only one example to disprove his "only in English":

    Dutch.

    This makes me wonder if the same is true of "appeasement"
    and "collaboration."

    Since the original assumption is false it cannot be,
    and if it were the same objection would apply.
    It would take a complex study of all world languages
    and their local dialects to come to such conclusion.

    As far as I know "collaboration" in French doesn't
    carry the stigma that it does in English

    and wonder if the same pattern applies to other languages

    Probably, if you are right in your French premise.

    and also to the use of appeasement (or how it
    is rendered in other languages).

    Same objection.

    --
    Evertjan.
    The Netherlands.
    (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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  • From Peter Wells@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 17 22:05:05 2015
    Le dimanche 16 ao�t 2015 16:18:40 UTC+2, retrosorter a �crit�:
    I read recently in Adrian Room's Dictionary of Changes of Meanings that only in English has the word propaganda obtained a negative taint of being biased. This makes me wonder if the same is true of "appeasement" and "collaboration." As far as I know "
    collaboration" in French doesn't carry the stigma that it does in English and wonder if the same pattern applies to other languages and also to the use of appeasement (or how it is rendered in other languages).

    Your dictionary is not going to be on my shopping list.

    "Propagande" is definitely derogatory in French.
    "Collaboration" in French is certainly to be handled with care, as precise meaning depends on context; but "collabo" is just as derogatory as Quisling in English.
    "Apaisement" is not as tainted.

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  • From Evertjan.@21:1/5 to retrosorter on Mon Aug 17 10:53:51 2015
    retrosorter <[email protected]> wrote on 17 Aug 2015 in
    sci.lang.translation:

    On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 10:18:40 AM UTC-4, retrosorter wrote:
    I read recently in Adrian Room's Dictionary of Changes of Meanings that
    only in English has the word propaganda obtained a negative taint of
    being biased. This makes me wonder if the same is true of "appeasement"
    and "collaboration." As far as I know "collaboration" in French doesn't
    carry the stigma that it does in English and wonder if the same pattern
    applies to other languages and also to the use of appeasement (or how it
    is rendered in other languages).

    Room's book was written in 1986. Is it possible that the pejorative
    sense of propaganda in Dutch only came into usage after this date?

    Don't know what you mean by "possible" in the past,
    your proposition is just not true.

    While the OP's stand can just be refuted by naming one single example
    to the contrary, why think Dutch is the "only other language"?

    Soviet "Agitprop", abbreviation of the "Otdel Agitatsii i Propagandy" ["department of Agitation and Propaganda"] of the early Communist Party of
    the Soviet-Union. [Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev was its longtime head]

    "Propaganda" here was not ment to be conveying true facts, I presume.

    [Perhaps "agitation" was also not pejorative
    in any other language than English before 1986
    and just ment to spead the milk an aspartame in my tea?]

    When Gregorius XV in 1622 founded the
    "Sacra Congregatio de propaganda fide", and perhaps then
    made this female form of the gerund of "propagare" into a modern noun,
    he was not concerned with the truth, but only with "fide", faith,
    which by definition attacks any true argument, but the "propagation" of unfounded untruth. See its decree of 1656: <http://digital.ucd.ie/get/ivrla:19525/content>

    Adolf Hitler, true to his catholic faith, devoted three chapters of his
    1925/26 book "Mein Kampf", itself a propaganda tool, to the study and
    practice of propaganda.

    Joseph Goebbels was made the head of Germany's
    "Reichsministerium f�r Volksaufkl�rung und Propaganda".

    So these examples from the pre-1986 Roomy stone-age show Latin and German.

    Illustratum est? [Aufgekl�rt?]

    --
    Evertjan.
    The Netherlands.
    (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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  • From retrosorter@21:1/5 to retrosorter on Mon Aug 17 07:22:53 2015
    On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 10:18:40 AM UTC-4, retrosorter wrote:
    I read recently in Adrian Room's Dictionary of Changes of Meanings that only in English has the word propaganda obtained a negative taint of being biased. This makes me wonder if the same is true of "appeasement" and "collaboration." As far as I know "
    collaboration" in French doesn't carry the stigma that it does in English and wonder if the same pattern applies to other languages and also to the use of appeasement (or how it is rendered in other languages).h


    Thank you Evertjan for your analysis; you've saved me from adding a fallacious comment to an article.

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