• [try it on for size] --- this was so common in the movies of the 1950s,

    From HenHanna@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 11 01:49:34 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    [try it on for size] --- this was so common in the movies of the
    1950s, 1960s

    ___________


    « Voici une question à votre mesure. »

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  • From HenHanna@21:1/5 to HenHanna on Wed Nov 13 22:26:00 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    On Mon, 11 Nov 2024 1:49:34 +0000, HenHanna wrote:

    [try it on for size] --- this was so common in the movies of the
    1950s, 1960s

    ___________


    « Voici une question à votre mesure. »



    The phrase "Give it to me, and fast" reflects the terse, urgent dialogue characteristic of film noir, which flourished from the 1940s to the
    1950s.


    I was going nowhere fast.

    give me expressions like Silver-tongued --- common in Noir films, now
    rare

    "Tight-lipped" - Referring to someone who is secretive or unwilling to
    share information.
    "Hard-boiled" - Describing a tough, uncompromising character, often a
    detective or anti-hero.

    "On the lam" - Meaning to be on the run or escaping from the law.

    "In the crosshairs" - Indicating someone who is in danger or being
    targeted.
    "Caught between a rock and a hard place" - Facing a difficult dilemma
    with no good options.

    "Throwing in the towel" - Surrendering or giving up, often after a
    struggle.


    "The big sleep" - A euphemism for death, famously used in Raymond
    Chandler's works.

    _________________________ interesting! i never think of it other than
    as the movie title.

    dame, broad

    on the level

    on the QT

    stick to you like white on rice

    guilty as sin

    safe as churches

    "the law"

    "throw the book at"

    hang for it

    the big house

    "Who wants to know?"
    "Who's asking?"



    Origin: The use of "broad" to refer to a woman dates back to the
    early 20th century, particularly in American slang.

    It is believed to derive from the term "broad-shouldered," which was
    used to describe a woman with a strong, robust physique.


    Connotation: Initially, the term may have had a neutral or even affectionate connotation, but over time, it has often been viewed as
    derogatory or objectifying, depending on the context in which it is
    used.

    Cultural Context: The slang gained popularity in the 1920s and
    was commonly used in jazz culture and among the urban working class.

    ________________________

    Does a [Blue Note] signify a Jazz chord?


    Yes, a blue note is a musical term commonly used in jazz, as well as in
    blues and other genres.

    Definition:

    Blue Note: Typically refers to a note that is sung or played at
    a slightly lower pitch than the standard pitch. In the context of jazz,
    blue notes are often the third, fifth, or seventh notes of a scale,
    flattened to create a more expressive sound.


    Context in Jazz:

    Chords: Blue notes are frequently incorporated into jazz chords,
    giving them a distinct, soulful character. For example, a major chord
    may include a flattened third (the blue note), transforming it into a
    more complex and emotionally rich sound.


    _______________________


    Louis Armstrong used the phrase "blue it up" in reference to the song
    "When the Saints Go Marching In."

    In this context, he encouraged musicians to add a soulful, bluesy feel
    to the traditional piece, transforming it with jazz elements.

    Context:

    "When the Saints Go Marching In": This song is a gospel hymn that became popular in jazz, especially associated with New Orleans jazz.

    Armstrong's version highlights improvisation and emotional expression.

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  • From Rich Ulrich@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 14 00:49:37 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 22:26:00 +0000, HenHanna <[email protected]>
    wrote:


    Origin: The use of "broad" to refer to a woman dates back to the
    early 20th century, particularly in American slang.

    It is believed to derive from the term "broad-shouldered," which was
    used to describe a woman with a strong, robust physique.

    I didn't see "broad-shouldered" in anything Google high-lighted.

    Slang sense of "woman" is by 1911, perhaps suggestive of broad
    hips, but it also might trace to American English abroadwife, word
    for a woman (often a slave) away from her husband.

    What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
    a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
    Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
    apparent prostitutes were men in drag. When I asked how
    he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
    Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall. Or, an obvious Adam's apple.

    --
    Rich Ulrich

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  • From Bebercito@21:1/5 to Rich Ulrich on Thu Nov 14 06:29:08 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 5:49:37 +0000, Rich Ulrich wrote:

    On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 22:26:00 +0000, HenHanna <[email protected]>
    wrote:


    Origin: The use of "broad" to refer to a woman dates back to the >>early 20th century, particularly in American slang.

    It is believed to derive from the term "broad-shouldered," which was
    used to describe a woman with a strong, robust physique.

    I didn't see "broad-shouldered" in anything Google high-lighted.

    Slang sense of "woman" is by 1911, perhaps suggestive of broad
    hips, but it also might trace to American English abroadwife, word
    for a woman (often a slave) away from her husband.

    What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
    a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
    Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
    apparent prostitutes were men in drag. When I asked how
    he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
    Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.

    "6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?


    Or, an obvious Adam's apple.

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  • From Peter Moylan@21:1/5 to Bebercito on Thu Nov 14 18:45:47 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    On 14/11/24 17:29, Bebercito wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 5:49:37 +0000, Rich Ulrich wrote:

    Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.

    "6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?

    This construct is relatively common in English. Six foot under, five
    mile down the road, and so on. I have a vague memory of reading that
    this is a remnant of the Anglo-Saxon genitive plural.

    --
    Peter Moylan [email protected] http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW

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  • From Hibou@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 14 08:47:51 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    Le 14/11/2024 à 06:29, Bebercito a écrit :
    On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 5:49:37 +0000, Rich Ulrich wrote:

    What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
    a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
    Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
    apparent prostitutes were men in drag.  When I asked how
    he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
    Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.

    "6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?

    "In front of another noun, the plural for the unit of length is /foot/:
    /a 20-foot putt/; /his 70-foot ketch/. /Foot/ can also be used instead
    of /feet/ when mentioning a quantity and in front of words like /tall/:
    /four foot of snow/; /he is at least six foot tall/" - <https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/foot>

    The OED puts it differently: "Often in singular when preceded by
    numbers... /The Cross 15 Foot and an half high, and very near 6 Foot
    across/ [De Laune, 1681]...."

    Or, an obvious Adam's apple.

    Or big hands. Or - ha! - twelve-inch or one-foot feet.

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  • From Christian Weisgerber@21:1/5 to Rich Ulrich on Thu Nov 14 16:13:56 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    On 2024-11-14, Rich Ulrich <[email protected]> wrote:

    Origin: The use of "broad" to refer to a woman dates back to the >>early 20th century, particularly in American slang.

    Slang sense of "woman" is by 1911, perhaps suggestive of broad
    hips, but it also might trace to American English abroadwife, word
    for a woman (often a slave) away from her husband.

    That's the sort of thing you look up in _Green’s Dictionary of Slang_ https://greensdictofslang.com/
    ... which unfortunately doesn't provide a definitive answer either
    in this case.

    The slang term is typically rendered as "Braut" into German, and I
    never gave this any thought because the words are so similar, but
    now I notice that "Braut" is of course cognate with "bride", so
    "broad" can't really be connected... unless it's a borrowing from
    another Germanic language? But neither German "Braut", nor Dutch
    "bruid", nor Scandinavian "brud" seem quite right.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber [email protected]

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  • From Hibou@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 14 16:18:44 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    Le 14/11/2024 à 15:18, jerryfriedman a écrit :
    On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 8:47:51 +0000, Hibou wrote:

    Le 14/11/2024 à 06:29, Bebercito a écrit :
    On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 5:49:37 +0000, Rich Ulrich wrote:

    What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
    a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
    Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
    apparent prostitutes were men in drag.  When I asked how
    he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
    Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.

    "6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?

    "In front of another noun, the plural for the unit of length is /foot/:
    /a 20-foot putt/; /his 70-foot ketch/. /Foot/ can also be used instead
    of /feet/ when mentioning a quantity and in front of words like /tall/:
    /four foot of snow/; /he is at least six foot tall/" -
    <https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/foot>

    That's wrong.  In attributive compounds, the singular is
    normal, especially after numbers.  A five-mile walk,
    a seven-piece band, a three-person job, a two-feather
    hobbit, an eleven-year-old boy, a hundred=year flood,
    many-body physics.

    There are a few exceptions, such as the two knights
    defense in chess.

    (There's also a version with -ed, as in "six-legged
    arthropods".)

    The OED puts it differently: "Often in singular when preceded by
    numbers... /The Cross 15 Foot and an half high, and very near 6 Foot
    across/ [De Laune, 1681]...."
    ..

    That's a lot better.

    I agree.

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  • From Rich Ulrich@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 14 13:07:18 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 18:45:47 +1100, Peter Moylan <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 14/11/24 17:29, Bebercito wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 5:49:37 +0000, Rich Ulrich wrote:

    Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.

    "6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?

    This construct is relatively common in English. Six foot under, five
    mile down the road, and so on. I have a vague memory of reading that
    this is a remnant of the Anglo-Saxon genitive plural.

    I sounded it out several times before I decided that "6-foot"
    sounded better to me -- sounded like what my friend Bill must
    have said at the time. (He was born and raised in Baltimore.)

    In my Texas (Panhandle) background, I think "6-foot" ruled,
    but 50 years in Pittsburgh (academic environment of university
    and hospital) might lead me to "6-feet" in a different context.

    --
    Rich Ulrich

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  • From Aidan Kehoe@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 14 19:01:25 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    Ar an ceathrú lá déag de mí na Samhain, scríobh Christian Weisgerber:

    On 2024-11-14, Rich Ulrich <[email protected]> wrote:

    Origin: The use of "broad" to refer to a woman dates back to the >>early 20th century, particularly in American slang.

    Slang sense of "woman" is by 1911, perhaps suggestive of broad
    hips, but it also might trace to American English abroadwife, word
    for a woman (often a slave) away from her husband.

    That's the sort of thing you look up in _Green’s Dictionary of Slang_ https://greensdictofslang.com/
    ... which unfortunately doesn't provide a definitive answer either
    in this case.

    The slang term is typically rendered as "Braut" into German, and I
    never gave this any thought because the words are so similar, but
    now I notice that "Braut" is of course cognate with "bride", so
    "broad" can't really be connected... unless it's a borrowing from
    another Germanic language? But neither German "Braut", nor Dutch
    "bruid", nor Scandinavian "brud" seem quite right.

    There’s not reason it can’t be a borrowing (in that sense) from German or from
    Dutch, with it being first attested in the US at a point when the recent German immigrant proportion of the population was as its highest.

    --
    ‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
    How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
    (C. Moore)

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  • From Bebercito@21:1/5 to Hibou on Thu Nov 14 21:41:02 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 8:47:51 +0000, Hibou wrote:

    Le 14/11/2024 à 06:29, Bebercito a écrit :
    On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 5:49:37 +0000, Rich Ulrich wrote:

    What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
    a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
    Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
    apparent prostitutes were men in drag.  When I asked how
    he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
    Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.

    "6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?

    "In front of another noun, the plural for the unit of length is /foot/:
    /a 20-foot putt/; /his 70-foot ketch/. /Foot/ can also be used instead
    of /feet/ when mentioning a quantity and in front of words like /tall/:
    /four foot of snow/; /he is at least six foot tall/" - <https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/foot>

    The OED puts it differently: "Often in singular when preceded by
    numbers... /The Cross 15 Foot and an half high, and very near 6 Foot
    across/ [De Laune, 1681]...."

    IMHO, both explanations miss the point, which is that with an
    "attributive" construction where the adjectival phrase (in this
    case a number followed by an adjective) can be placed before
    or after the noun (as with the Cross in your example), the singular
    is used in the adjectival phrase, whereas with a "predicative"
    construction, where the adjectival phrase follows a copula
    (e.g. "is", "becomes"...), the noun is in the plural (that is if
    the number in the adjectival phrase is greater than one).


    Or, an obvious Adam's apple.

    Or big hands. Or - ha! - twelve-inch or one-foot feet.

    --

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