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  • OED Historical Thesaurus published (22/10/2009)

    From Ross Clark@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 22 23:08:40 2024
    Roget gives us the present day English vocabulary arranged by semantic
    fields. You start with a word, look up its semantic category (a nested hierarchy with labels like "1.2.23.14"), look that up and you will find
    your word together with all its near-synonyms or closely related (by
    meaning) words. The classic task for Roget is "I want a word that means something like 'insist', but a little different..." or "I don't want to
    keep on using 'insist' -- how about a word that means roughly the same,
    for variety?"

    The OED Historical Thesaurus adds a historical dimension to this.
    Starting in the same way, you find a semantic point or field you're
    interested in, and it gives you all the words that have been used there,
    right back to Old English. You can see how the vocabulary for that
    particular area has changed over the centuries.

    I have to admit: I bought myself a copy of OEDHT a couple of years ago,
    on impulse, for probably more money than was wise. It's two great hefty volumes, and it's on my bookshelf now, but I have used it very little.
    I'm not at home with the semantic categories, and the historical
    information is extremely compressed, in small print with numerous abbreviations. Maybe I just need an online tutorial in how to use it.
    Actually the whole thing is available online, alongside OED Online,
    which I use all the time; but if I learned to use the online thesaurus,
    I would realize I had wasted my money on the hard copy....

    The sort of question which I have occasionally thought OEDHT might be
    able to answer is: I'm thinking about a modern English word which seems
    pretty basic, but I know it only goes back to the 17th century, or to
    Middle English. The concept is not new, so what words did they have for
    it before the one we know today?

    Crystal says it's the first historical thesaurus for any language. The
    idea was suggested to the Philological Society by Michael Samuels in
    1965, and 44 years later, there it was.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stefan Ram@21:1/5 to Ross Clark on Tue Oct 22 15:34:32 2024
    Ross Clark <[email protected]> wrote or quoted:
    Roget gives us the present day English vocabulary arranged by semantic >fields. You start with a word, look up its semantic category (a nested >hierarchy with labels like "1.2.23.14"), look that up and you will find
    your word together with all its near-synonyms or closely related (by
    meaning) words. The classic task for Roget is "I want a word that means >something like 'insist', but a little different..." or "I don't want to
    keep on using 'insist' -- how about a word that means roughly the same,
    for variety?"

    Here in Berlin, we call those kinds of dictionaries for
    German "dictionary of synonyms" when they list words along
    with their synonyms.

    In California, from what I can tell, folks usually call this
    kind of thing a "thesaurus." The word exists in German too,
    but it's not used as often in this context.

    On top of that, we've got dictionaries that organize the German
    vocabulary by "by meaning groups", basically grouping words by
    how closely related their meanings are. (That kind of thing would
    probably be called a "thesaurus" in the Golden State too.)

    I'm not hip to anything like that specifically for older forms
    of German, but you might be able to get somewhere by doing
    a full-text search in dictionaries from those earlier periods
    as a workaround. Or you could always pick the brain of a chatbot!

    User:
    |I don't want to keep on using "insist" – how about a word
    |that means roughly the same, for variety?

    Chatbot:
    |Here are some synonyms for "insist" that you can use for
    |variety:
    . . .

    User:
    |What did people use in older states of the English language
    |to say "insist"?

    Chatbot:
    . . .
    |Astandan - to stand firm, persist
    |Geornlice biddan - to earnestly request or demand
    . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Christian Weisgerber@21:1/5 to Ross Clark on Sat Oct 26 17:50:07 2024
    On 2024-10-22, Ross Clark <[email protected]> wrote:

    Crystal says it's the first historical thesaurus for any language.

    Anybody know one in any other language?

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber [email protected]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HenHanna@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 27 20:48:41 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    Is there a Historical Thesaurus (published) in any other language?


    Yes, there are several historical thesauri published in various
    languages. Here are a few notable examples:

    1. Thesaurus Linguae Graecae (TLG)

    Language: Ancient Greek

    Description: A comprehensive database that catalogs Greek literature
    from antiquity to the Byzantine period, organized by themes and
    concepts.


    2. Deutsches Wörterbuch

    Language: German

    Description: Created by the Brothers Grimm, this historical dictionary
    also functions as a thesaurus by providing synonyms and exploring the
    evolution of German words.


    3. Dictionnaire historique de la langue française

    Language: French

    Description: A historical dictionary that includes synonyms and
    variations of French words throughout history.


    4. Diccionario de la lengua española (DLE)

    Language: Spanish

    Description: While primarily a dictionary, it includes etymological
    information and synonyms, serving as a resource for understanding
    historical usage.


    5. Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache

    Language: German

    Description: This historical dictionary includes information on the
    usage and evolution of German words, often providing synonyms and
    related terms.


    ___________________________________

    Example

    Category: Nature
    Subcategory: Plants

    _________________________Word: "Tree"

    Old English: "treow" (used in early medieval texts)

    Middle English: "tre" (seen in literature from the 12th century)

    Modern Usage: "tree" (current usage)

    Synonyms:
    "Sapling" (young tree)
    "Timber" (wood from trees, mainly used in construction)



    _____________________Word: "Flower"

    Old English: "blōwre" (mentioned in texts from the 9th century)

    Middle English: "flour" (common in poetry from the 14th century)

    Modern Usage: "flower" (still in use)

    Synonyms:
    "Blossom" (refers to the flowering part of a plant)
    "Floret" (small flower or cluster of flowers)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Christian Weisgerber@21:1/5 to HenHanna on Mon Oct 28 16:11:44 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    On 2024-10-27, HenHanna <[email protected]> wrote:

    Is there a Historical Thesaurus (published) in any other language?

    Yes, there are several historical thesauri published in various
    languages. Here are a few notable examples:

    Sounds like a response from ChatGPT.

    1. Thesaurus Linguae Graecae (TLG)
    2. Deutsches Wörterbuch
    3. Dictionnaire historique de la langue française
    4. Diccionario de la lengua española (DLE)
    5. Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache

    Nonsense. None of those are anything like the OED Historical
    Thesaurus.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber [email protected]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HenHanna@21:1/5 to Christian Weisgerber on Mon Oct 28 22:42:42 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 16:11:44 +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote:

    On 2024-10-27, HenHanna <[email protected]> wrote:

    Is there a Historical Thesaurus (published) in any other language?

    Yes, there are several historical thesauri published in various
    languages. Here are a few notable examples:

    Sounds like a response from ChatGPT.

    1. Thesaurus Linguae Graecae (TLG)
    2. Deutsches Wörterbuch
    3. Dictionnaire historique de la langue française
    4. Diccionario de la lengua española (DLE)
    5. Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache

    Nonsense. None of those are anything like the OED Historical
    Thesaurus.


    thank you ... my AI-assistant is usu. very good...


    Sometimes, 1 out of 5 things it tells me is bogus, but
    here it seems all 5 were bogus.


    __________

    1970's Hackers liked the noun [Bogosity] -- it that a real
    noun?
    it must be... because i'm not seeing the Red squiggles.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)