• National Dictionary Day (16 October)

    From Ross Clark@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 16 22:30:04 2024
    "National" here is American. And the day is the birthday of Noah Webster (16/10/1758-28/5/1843). Author of the "National Dictionary".
    Actually called The American Dictionary of the English Language.
    Published 1828. 25 years in the making, 2,000 pages, 70,000 entries.
    Price $20.00.

    "A great number of words in our language require to be defined in a
    phraseology accommodated to the condition and institutions of the people
    in these states, and the people of England must look to an American
    Dictionary for a correct understanding of such terms."
    (from the Preface)

    This almost reads like a claim that the American senses are the correct
    ones. But I think he is taking the much more reasonable position that
    where UK and US usage diverge, if UK speakers want to know about the US
    usage, it makes sense for them to consult an American dictionary.

    Webster's first big success was a Spelling Book (1783), which sold and
    sold for decades, and made him a household (or schoolroom) name. He had
    some good ideas about improved spelling, several of which have become
    standard for USEng.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster%27s_Dictionary

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  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Ross Clark on Wed Oct 16 16:00:15 2024
    On 2024-10-16 09:30:04 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    "National" here is American. And the day is the birthday of Noah
    Webster (16/10/1758-28/5/1843). Author of the "National Dictionary".
    Actually called The American Dictionary of the English Language.
    Published 1828. 25 years in the making, 2,000 pages, 70,000 entries.
    Price $20.00.

    "A great number of words in our language require to be defined in a phraseology accommodated to the condition and institutions of the
    people in these states, and the people of England must look to an
    American Dictionary for a correct understanding of such terms."
    (from the Preface)

    This almost reads like a claim that the American senses are the correct
    ones. But I think he is taking the much more reasonable position that
    where UK and US usage diverge, if UK speakers want to know about the US usage, it makes sense for them to consult an American dictionary.

    Webster's first big success was a Spelling Book (1783), which sold and
    sold for decades, and made him a household (or schoolroom) name. He had
    some good ideas about improved spelling, several of which have become standard for USEng.

    Others of which have not: "Noah Webster's assertion in his 1828 dictionary—'Our common orthography is incorrect; the true spelling is
    tung'" hasn't stood the test of time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster%27s_Dictionary


    --
    Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
    in England until 1987.

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  • From Ross Clark@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Thu Oct 17 11:37:04 2024
    On 17/10/2024 3:00 a.m., Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
    On 2024-10-16 09:30:04 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    "National" here is American. And the day is the birthday of Noah
    Webster (16/10/1758-28/5/1843). Author of the "National Dictionary".
    Actually called The American Dictionary of the English Language.
    Published 1828. 25 years in the making, 2,000 pages, 70,000 entries.
    Price $20.00.

    "A great number of words in our language require to be defined in a
    phraseology accommodated to the condition and institutions of the
    people in these states, and the people of England must look to an
    American Dictionary for a correct understanding of such terms."
    (from the Preface)

    This almost reads like a claim that the American senses are the
    correct ones. But I think he is taking the much more reasonable
    position that where UK and US usage diverge, if UK speakers want to
    know about the US usage, it makes sense for them to consult an
    American dictionary.

    Webster's first big success was a Spelling Book (1783), which sold and
    sold for decades, and made him a household (or schoolroom) name. He
    had some good ideas about improved spelling, several of which have
    become standard for USEng.

    Others of which have not: "Noah Webster's assertion in his 1828 dictionary—'Our common orthography is incorrect; the true spelling is tung'" hasn't stood the test of time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster%27s_Dictionary


    Too bad. Webster was right.

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  • From Christian Weisgerber@21:1/5 to Ross Clark on Sat Oct 19 20:18:45 2024
    On 2024-10-16, Ross Clark <[email protected]> wrote:

    "National" here is American. And the day is the birthday of Noah Webster (16/10/1758-28/5/1843). Author of the "National Dictionary".
    Actually called The American Dictionary of the English Language.

    I'm positive I've seen a Webster's Dictionary of the American (!)
    Language somewhere. I thought Noah Webster himself started this,
    but apparently I was mistaken.

    ... Okay, it's _Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language_
    and Wikipedia informs me that this is an independent work, wholly
    unrelated to that of Webster himself. Sorry, Noah.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber [email protected]

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  • From Ross Clark@21:1/5 to Christian Weisgerber on Sun Oct 20 12:49:29 2024
    On 20/10/2024 9:18 a.m., Christian Weisgerber wrote:
    On 2024-10-16, Ross Clark <[email protected]> wrote:

    "National" here is American. And the day is the birthday of Noah Webster
    (16/10/1758-28/5/1843). Author of the "National Dictionary".
    Actually called The American Dictionary of the English Language.

    I'm positive I've seen a Webster's Dictionary of the American (!)
    Language somewhere. I thought Noah Webster himself started this,
    but apparently I was mistaken.

    ... Okay, it's _Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language_
    and Wikipedia informs me that this is an independent work, wholly
    unrelated to that of Webster himself. Sorry, Noah.


    I remember being told this long ago, that Webster was unable to
    trademark his name, or the right lapsed after his death or some such, so
    that 20th century dictionaries with "Webster" in the title might have no connection whatsoever to Noah's work. That some people continued this
    deceptive practice is an indication of how much NW had been identified
    with the idea of a "definitive dictionary".

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  • From Stefan Ram@21:1/5 to Ross Clark on Sun Oct 20 00:56:53 2024
    Ross Clark <[email protected]> wrote or quoted:
    I remember being told this long ago, that Webster was unable to
    trademark his name, or the right lapsed after his death or some such, so
    that 20th century dictionaries with "Webster" in the title might have no >connection whatsoever to Noah's work. That some people continued this >deceptive practice is an indication of how much NW had been identified
    with the idea of a "definitive dictionary".

    I'm going to share a quote from a 1989 book with this esteemed
    group for your kind consideration:

    |~%[ W ]%~®
    |
    |A GENUINE MERRIAM-WEBSTER
    |
    |The name Webster alone is no guarantee of excellence. It is used by
    |a number of publishers and may serve mainly to mislead an unwary
    |buyer.
    |
    |A Merriam-Webster® is the registered trademark you should look
    |for when you consider the purchase of dictionaries or other fine
    |reference books. It carries the reputation of a company that has
    |been publishing since 1831 and is your assurance of quality and
    |authority.

    .

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  • From Ross Clark@21:1/5 to Stefan Ram on Sun Oct 20 20:42:07 2024
    On 20/10/2024 1:56 p.m., Stefan Ram wrote:
    Ross Clark <[email protected]> wrote or quoted:
    I remember being told this long ago, that Webster was unable to
    trademark his name, or the right lapsed after his death or some such, so
    that 20th century dictionaries with "Webster" in the title might have no
    connection whatsoever to Noah's work. That some people continued this
    deceptive practice is an indication of how much NW had been identified
    with the idea of a "definitive dictionary".

    I'm going to share a quote from a 1989 book with this esteemed
    group for your kind consideration:

    |~%[ W ]%~®
    |
    |A GENUINE MERRIAM-WEBSTER
    |
    |The name Webster alone is no guarantee of excellence. It is used by
    |a number of publishers and may serve mainly to mislead an unwary
    |buyer.
    |
    |A Merriam-Webster® is the registered trademark you should look
    |for when you consider the purchase of dictionaries or other fine
    |reference books. It carries the reputation of a company that has
    |been publishing since 1831 and is your assurance of quality and
    |authority.

    .
    That's right.

    "The rights to his dictionary were acquired by Charles and George
    Merriam in 1843 from Webster's estate and all contemporary
    Merriam-Webster dictionaries trace their lineage to that of Webster,
    although many others have adopted his name, attempting to share in the popularity."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster

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