• Word of the day: =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=9Cithyphallic=E2=80=9D?=

    From Aidan Kehoe@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 19 05:59:08 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    I was in the National Archeological Museum in Athens a couple of days ago, and the English-language description under one of the early exhibits used the word “ithyphallic,” which was new to me. It is of course no longer 1990 with the associated need to make a written note of the word and consult a paper dictionary when such a difficulty comes up, and I learned fairly quickly that it means “having an erect penis.”

    Interestingly etymonline also mentions the following, also new to me:

    “1795, in reference to a type of meter used in ancient Greek poetry (earlier
    as a noun, “poem in ithyphallic meter,” 1610s), from Latin ithyphallicus,
    from Greek ithyphallikos, from ithyphallos “phallus carried in the
    festivals,” from ithys “straight, straight upward” + phallos “erect penis”
    (see phallus). Credited to Archilochus, the meter was that of the Bacchic
    hymns, which were sung in the rites during which such phalluses were carried.
    Thus, in Victorian times, the word also meant “grossly indecent” (1864) and
    sometimes was used in scholarly works in its literal sense of “with erect
    penis” (1837).”

    In general there is a wealth of English words to be learned from the descriptions of the exhibits in that museum, words that will likely not be that useful unless you are speaking with a scholar of ancient Greece about ancient Greece. Another one that stuck for me was “metic”, “resident foreigner in a
    Greek city state,” apparently not related to meticulous.

    If anyone is going to Athens, be aware there is a significant street drug problem. If you are bringing children check with the hotel about what streets to avoid, if you prefer not to have to explain what this man sitting on the ground with a needle and a syringe sticking into his arm is doing.

    --
    ‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
    How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
    (C. Moore)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hibou@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 19 06:05:14 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    Le 19/09/2024 à 05:59, Aidan Kehoe a écrit :

    I was in the National Archeological Museum in Athens a couple of days ago, and
    the English-language description under one of the early exhibits used the word
    “ithyphallic,” which was new to me. It is of course no longer 1990 with the
    associated need to make a written note of the word and consult a paper dictionary when such a difficulty comes up, and I learned fairly quickly that it means “having an erect penis.” [...]

    If anyone is going to Athens, be aware there is a significant street drug problem. If you are bringing children check with the hotel about what streets to avoid, if you prefer not to have to explain what this man sitting on the ground with a needle and a syringe sticking into his arm is doing.

    One could just segue from 'ithyphallic' and explain that it's another
    sense of 'prick'.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From occam@21:1/5 to Aidan Kehoe on Thu Sep 19 08:53:11 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    On 19/09/2024 06:59, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
    Another one that stuck for me was “metic”, “resident foreigner in a Greek city state,” apparently not related to meticulous.

    Try 'hermetic' as a related concept. A 'foreigner' in ancient Greek was
    someone from another city state, even if that was a city in Greece.
    'Greece' did not become an entity until much later.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to occam on Thu Sep 19 21:49:11 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    occam <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 06:59, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
    Another one that stuck for me was "metic", "resident foreigner in a
    Greek city state," apparently not related to meticulous.

    Try 'hermetic' as a related concept. A 'foreigner' in ancient Greek was someone from another city state, even if that was a city in Greece.
    'Greece' did not become an entity until much later.

    Depends on what you want 'entity' to mean.
    Those ancient Greeks certainly saw themselves as a cultural entity,
    with a shared language and culture. This extended to 'Greater Greece'.
    It was only the narrow sense of a political entity that was
    inconceivable to them,

    Jan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Kerr-Mudd, John@21:1/5 to J. J. Lodder on Thu Sep 19 21:49:46 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 21:49:11 +0200
    [email protected] (J. J. Lodder) wrote:

    occam <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 06:59, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
    Another one that stuck for me was "metic", "resident foreigner in a
    Greek city state," apparently not related to meticulous.

    Try 'hermetic' as a related concept. A 'foreigner' in ancient Greek was someone from another city state, even if that was a city in Greece. 'Greece' did not become an entity until much later.

    Depends on what you want 'entity' to mean.
    Those ancient Greeks certainly saw themselves as a cultural entity,
    with a shared language and culture. This extended to 'Greater Greece'.
    It was only the narrow sense of a political entity that was
    inconceivable to them,


    In his travels (read killing spree) Alexander encountered some lost Greek settlement; unfortunately for them they hadn't kept up *all* the right procedures to appease the gods, so he had to slaughter them as well.


    --
    Bah, and indeed Humbug.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to Snidely on Thu Sep 19 23:38:43 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    Snidely <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Thursday, J. J. Lodder pointed out that ...
    occam <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 06:59, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
    Another one that stuck for me was "metic", "resident foreigner in a
    Greek city state," apparently not related to meticulous.

    Try 'hermetic' as a related concept. A 'foreigner' in ancient Greek was
    someone from another city state, even if that was a city in Greece.
    'Greece' did not become an entity until much later.

    Depends on what you want 'entity' to mean.
    Those ancient Greeks certainly saw themselves as a cultural entity,
    with a shared language and culture. This extended to 'Greater Greece'.
    It was only the narrow sense of a political entity that was
    inconceivable to them,

    Jan

    I have a better sense of how Egypt came to be a cultural entity than I
    do for Greece. On the one hand, the political development of the
    winning Pharoahs is easy to read about; on the other, my histories of
    Greece generally begin with the last king of Athens and the rise of the
    early democracy, which seems to be well after there were several
    city-states that considered themselves to be Greek.

    They had a common language and culture
    well before Homer started writing it up.
    The Mycenean Linear B script already contains archaic Greek.
    (but unfortunately no literature)
    Trade may be a better basis for a common culture than conquest,

    Jan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to John on Thu Sep 19 23:38:43 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    Kerr-Mudd, John <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 21:49:11 +0200
    [email protected] (J. J. Lodder) wrote:

    occam <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 06:59, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
    Another one that stuck for me was "metic", "resident foreigner in a Greek city state," apparently not related to meticulous.

    Try 'hermetic' as a related concept. A 'foreigner' in ancient Greek was someone from another city state, even if that was a city in Greece. 'Greece' did not become an entity until much later.

    Depends on what you want 'entity' to mean.
    Those ancient Greeks certainly saw themselves as a cultural entity,
    with a shared language and culture. This extended to 'Greater Greece'.
    It was only the narrow sense of a political entity that was
    inconceivable to them,


    In his travels (read killing spree) Alexander encountered some lost Greek settlement; unfortunately for them they hadn't kept up *all* the right procedures to appease the gods, so he had to slaughter them as well.

    Only the men, I guess. There are still tribes in Afghanistan
    that claim descent from Alexander's soldiers,

    Jan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HenHanna@21:1/5 to Aidan Kehoe on Thu Sep 26 20:01:27 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.fish

    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 4:59:08 +0000, Aidan Kehoe wrote:


    I was in the National Archeological Museum in Athens a couple of days
    ago, and
    the English-language description under one of the early exhibits used
    the word
    “ithyphallic,” which was new to me. It is of course no longer 1990 with the
    associated need to make a written note of the word and consult a paper dictionary when such a difficulty comes up, and I learned fairly quickly
    that
    it means “having an erect penis.”

    Interestingly etymonline also mentions the following, also new to me:

    “1795, in reference to a type of meter used in ancient Greek poetry (earlier
    as a noun, “poem in ithyphallic meter,” 1610s), from Latin ithyphallicus,
    from Greek ithyphallikos, from ithyphallos “phallus carried in the
    festivals,” from ithys “straight, straight upward” + phallos “erect penis”
    (see phallus). Credited to Archilochus, the meter was that of the
    Bacchic
    hymns, which were sung in the rites during which such phalluses were carried.
    Thus, in Victorian times, the word also meant “grossly indecent”
    (1864) and
    sometimes was used in scholarly works in its literal sense of “with
    erect
    penis” (1837).”

    In general there is a wealth of English words to be learned from the descriptions of the exhibits in that museum, words that will likely not
    be that
    useful unless you are speaking with a scholar of ancient Greece about
    ancient
    Greece. Another one that stuck for me was “metic”, “resident foreigner in a
    Greek city state,” apparently not related to meticulous.

    If anyone is going to Athens, be aware there is a significant street
    drug
    problem. If you are bringing children check with the hotel about what
    streets
    to avoid, if you prefer not to have to explain what this man sitting on
    the
    ground with a needle and a syringe sticking into his arm is doing.



    i did sorame and thought it was ichthyphallic

    --------- "Fish-penised"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)