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  • Richard Paget theory : (Origin of spoken language) Tongues copied the g

    From HenHanna@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 3 14:36:55 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    Do linguists support this Theory (of mouth pantomime) ???

    __________________________

    Richard Paget's theory was....

    that spoken language developed when people could no longer use
    their hands (e.g., they were full)

    ... that the tongues copied the gestures



    'Let us take, as an example of our supposed method of word or
    speech formation, the sign for a simple action, that of lift up or be
    up, as compared with to lower, or be down. The hand sign for up would
    obviously be to point up with finger or hand, and we are to suppose that
    this body pantomime was unconsciously accompanied by a corresponding
    mouth pantomime.

    Let the reader try the experiment for himself...of raising the tip of
    his tongue to touch the roof of his mouth, as if pointing up to the sky.

    If, while performing this tongue-gesture, the reader simultaneously
    grunts, or blows air through his mouth, so that it passes out on either
    side of the tip of his tongue, he will find that it results in
    articulating a sound which might be written ULL or OLL in English, or aL
    in the Latin languages.

    AL (as we shall write it) is therefore a natural gesture-word meaning
    up. It is satisfactory to find that it does in fact form the root of
    words meaning up in a great variety of different languages'

    --------- Paget, Babel, p 31.

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  • From Ross Clark@21:1/5 to HenHanna on Wed Sep 4 12:22:07 2024
    On 4/09/2024 9:36 a.m., HenHanna wrote:

           Do linguists support this Theory (of  mouth pantomime)  ???

    __________________________

    Richard Paget's theory was....

            that spoken language developed when people could no longer use
    their hands (e.g.,   they were full)

             ...  that the tongues copied the gestures



       'Let us take, as an example of our supposed method of word or
    speech formation, the sign for a simple action, that of lift up or be
    up, as compared with to lower, or be down. The hand sign for up would obviously be to point up with finger or hand, and we are to suppose that
    this body pantomime was unconsciously accompanied by a corresponding
    mouth pantomime.

    Let the reader try the experiment for himself...of raising the tip of
    his tongue to touch the roof of his mouth, as if pointing up to the sky.

    If, while performing this tongue-gesture, the reader simultaneously
    grunts, or blows air through his mouth, so that it passes out on either
    side of the tip of his tongue, he will find that it results in
    articulating a sound which might be written ULL or OLL in English, or aL
    in the Latin languages.

    AL (as we shall write it) is therefore a natural gesture-word meaning
    up. It is satisfactory to find that it does in fact form the root of
    words meaning up in a great variety of different languages'
                                ---------    Paget, Babel, p 31.

    The part about AL? No.

    T, D and N would be equally likely sounds made with the tongue in the
    same position.

    He claims that AL "does in fact form the root of words meaning in a
    great variety of different languages". Universal claims like this
    usually don't get far when tested against statistical probability and a
    really wide sample of languages. (I can't find a copy of the book to see
    if he gives a list.)

    And why would a very unusual situation like this (hands full, wanting to
    point UP) be the very origin of language? The whole thing about upright
    posture (as in humans, but not apes) is that we _can_ use our hands for
    all kinds of things, including pointing.

    Most of the time, when we want to point at something, and can't use a
    hand, we move the head as if to look at it. I think some cultures may
    use a protruded tongue for this; and I think I've seen some serious
    argument that tongue-tip sounds may be significantly more used than
    others in general pointing words like "this, that, there".

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