• Somewhere came from Somewheres ? ---- unawares, amongst, betwixt

    From HenHanna@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 3 14:22:46 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    > Does the dropping of the final S go back to Greek or Hebrew?

    Crossposted to sci.lang, where people might know the answer.
    Is there a natural tendency for languages to lose final syllables or final consonants? <<<



    ----------- Why is this thread named [Somewheres] ?

    is there a suggestion that ...
    Somewhere came from Somewheres ? --- (Dropped S)

    i think Not !

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/somewheres


    i thnk the -s in Somewheres is old, and the same as in

    Forwards
    Backwards

    Outwards
    Inwards
    Upwards
    Downwards
    Homewards

    Sideways

    Besides ?

    Unawares ?


    ‎forward + ‎-s → ‎forwards
    ‎downward + ‎-s → ‎downwards
    ‎alway + ‎-s → ‎always
    ‎sometime + ‎-s → ‎sometimes
    ‎betime + ‎-s → ‎betimes
    ‎while + ‎-s → ‎whiles
    ‎betide + ‎-s → ‎betides
    ‎toward + ‎-s → ‎towards
    ‎beside + ‎-s → ‎besides
    ‎evening + ‎-s → ‎evenings
    ‎unaware + ‎-s → ‎unawares


    ‎among + ‎-st → ‎amongst
    ‎mid + ‎-st → ‎midst
    ‎while + ‎-st → ‎whilst

    betwixt

    against
    alongst
    amongst
    beknownst
    midst
    unbeknownst
    whilst
    whomst

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ross Clark@21:1/5 to HenHanna on Wed Sep 4 09:45:07 2024
    On 4/09/2024 9:22 a.m., HenHanna wrote:

        > Does the dropping of the final S go back to Greek or Hebrew?

    Crossposted to sci.lang, where people might know the answer.
                  Is there a natural tendency for languages to lose final
    syllables or final consonants?  <<<



    -----------  Why is this thread  named   [Somewheres]  ?

              is there a suggestion that ...
                   Somewhere  came from Somewheres ? --- (Dropped S)

                                          i think Not !

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/somewheres


    i thnk the  -s in  Somewheres    is  old, and the same as in

    Forwards
    Backwards

    Outwards
    Inwards
    Upwards
    Downwards
    Homewards

    Sideways

    Besides ?

    Unawares ?


    ‎forward + ‎-s → ‎forwards
    ‎downward + ‎-s → ‎downwards
    ‎alway + ‎-s → ‎always
    ‎sometime + ‎-s → ‎sometimes
    ‎betime + ‎-s → ‎betimes
    ‎while + ‎-s → ‎whiles
    ‎betide + ‎-s → ‎betides
    ‎toward + ‎-s → ‎towards
    ‎beside + ‎-s → ‎besides
    ‎evening + ‎-s → ‎evenings
    ‎unaware + ‎-s → ‎unawares


    ‎among + ‎-st → ‎amongst
    ‎mid + ‎-st → ‎midst
    ‎while + ‎-st → ‎whilst

    betwixt

    against
    alongst
    amongst
    beknownst
    midst
    unbeknownst
    whilst
    whomst


    You (whoever "you" are) are right.
    I pointed this out a couple of days ago, referring to what I call
    "floating adverbial -s". You may have missed it as a result of your
    incessant cross-posting. (Thunderbird won't let me cross-post.)
    All the words above are (I think) examples of it. (Sometimes with extra -t.)

    IIRC, Peter Moylan originally asked about the form "besides", which was
    new to him. Some time later, he mentioned that in choral singing, the
    sound of [s] is disliked, and singers are instructed to mute or even
    suppress it. This led to general discussion of loss or weakening of [s]
    and other sounds in languages. But I don't think anyone actually claimed
    that "somewheres" became "somewhere" in this way. If they did, they were
    wrong.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HenHanna@21:1/5 to Ross Clark on Tue Sep 3 17:10:25 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    On 9/3/2024 2:45 PM, Ross Clark wrote:
    On 4/09/2024 9:22 a.m., HenHanna wrote:

    ;    > Does the dropping of the final S go back to Greek or Hebrew? >>
    Crossposted to sci.lang, where people might know the answer.
                   Is there a natural tendency for languages to lose final
    syllables or final consonants?  <<<



    -----------  Why is this thread  named   [Somewheres]  ?

               is there a suggestion that ...
                    Somewhere  came from Somewheres ? --- (Dropped S)

                                           i think Not !

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/somewheres


    i thnk the  -s in  Somewheres    is  old, and the same as in

    Forwards
    Backwards

    Outwards
    Inwards
    Upwards
    Downwards
    Homewards

    Sideways

    Besides ?

    Unawares ?


    ‎forward + ‎-s → ‎forwards
    ‎downward + ‎-s → ‎downwards
    ‎alway + ‎-s → ‎always
    ‎sometime + ‎-s → ‎sometimes
    ‎betime + ‎-s → ‎betimes
    ‎while + ‎-s → ‎whiles
    ‎betide + ‎-s → ‎betides
    ‎toward + ‎-s → ‎towards
    ‎beside + ‎-s → ‎besides
    ‎evening + ‎-s → ‎evenings
    ‎unaware + ‎-s → ‎unawares


    ‎among + ‎-st → ‎amongst
    ‎mid + ‎-st → ‎midst
    ‎while + ‎-st → ‎whilst

    betwixt

    against
    alongst
    amongst
    beknownst
    midst
    unbeknownst
    whilst
    whomst


    You (whoever "you" are) are right.
    I pointed this out a couple of days ago, referring to what I call
    "floating adverbial -s". You may have missed it as a result of your
    incessant cross-posting. (Thunderbird won't let me cross-post.)
    All the words above are (I think) examples of it. (Sometimes with extra
    -t.)

    IIRC, Peter Moylan originally asked about the form "besides", which was
    new to him. Some time later, he mentioned that in choral singing, the
    sound of [s] is disliked, and singers are instructed to mute or even
    suppress it. This led to general discussion of loss or weakening of [s]
    and other sounds in languages. But I don't think anyone actually claimed
    that "somewheres" became "somewhere" in this way. If they did, they were wrong.



    in English choruses, the final S is never dropped.
    ----------- all S's are emphasized, enunciated... iirc.


    _____________________

    whenabouts?
    thenabouts?

    nearabouts
    roundabouts

    hereabouts
    thereabouts
    whereabouts --- in Each, -S is adverbial



    i was trying to remember... there was a thread about
    the adverbial -S suffix in AUE and i think i found it.


    _______________________________Subj: Whereabouts


    [email protected] ------- Aug 24, 2011 ---- to AUE

    On Aug 24, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <[email protected]> wrote:
    .........


    The strange thing is that the -s isn't historically a plural at all.
    It's the "adverbial -s", originally from an OE genitive singular. Yet "whereabouts" is certainly treated as plural for purposes of
    agreement, and I think may even be felt by some speakers as
    semantically plural, something like "the particulars of his location",
    or maybe as suggesting that he moves around (has more than one location)?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)