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  • [pass over in(with) silence] ------- expression from Greek?

    From HenHanna@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 24 16:42:50 2024
    XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

    in Cicero's speech (62 B.C.) Pro Sulla (Section 62.1)

    "Ac ne haec quidem P. Sullae mihi
    videtur silentio praetereunda esse virtus"

    ("And even this virtue of Publius Sulla
    seems to me to [be one which] ought not
    to be passed by in/with silence").


    -- pass over in silence
    -- pass over with silence ------- is this expression from Greek?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Cryer@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 25 09:40:04 2024
    XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

    SGVuSGFubmEgd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiAgwqBpbiBDaWNlcm8ncyBzcGVlY2ggKDYyIEIuQy4p wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgUHJvIFN1bGxhwqAgKFNlY3Rpb24gNjIuMSkNCj4gDQo+ICDCoMKg wqDCoMKgwqDCoCAiQWMgbmUgaGFlYyBxdWlkZW0gUC4gU3VsbGFlIG1paGkNCj4gIMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgdmlkZXR1ciBzaWxlbnRpbyBwcmFldGVyZXVuZGEgZXNzZSB2 aXJ0dXMiDQo+IA0KPiAgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgKCJBbmQgZXZlbiB0aGlzIHZpcnR1ZSBv ZiBQdWJsaXVzIFN1bGxhDQo+ICDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCBzZWVtcyB0byBtZSB0 byBbYmUgb25lIHdoaWNoXcKgwqAgb3VnaHQgbm90DQo+ICDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgdG8gYmUgcGFzc2VkIGJ5wqAgaW4vd2l0aCBzaWxlbmNlIiku DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gLS0gcGFzcyBvdmVyIGluIHNpbGVuY2UNCj4gLS0gcGFzcyBvdmVyIHdp dGggc2lsZW5jZcKgIC0tLS0tLS0gaXMgdGhpcyBleHByZXNzaW9uIGZyb20gR3JlZWs/DQoN Cs+DzrnPic+A4b+HIGluIEdyZWVrOyBkYXRpdmUgY2FzZSwgR3JlZWsgaGF2aW5nIG5vIGFi bGF0aXZlLg0KDQpFZA0KDQo=

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  • From micky@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Aug 25 19:00:54 2024
    XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

    In alt.usage.english, on Sat, 24 Aug 2024 16:42:50 -0700, HenHanna <[email protected]> wrote:


    in Cicero's speech (62 B.C.) Pro Sulla (Section 62.1)

    "Ac ne haec quidem P. Sullae mihi
    videtur silentio praetereunda esse virtus"

    ("And even this virtue of Publius Sulla
    seems to me to [be one which] ought not
    to be passed by in/with silence").


    -- pass over in silence
    -- pass over with silence ------- is this expression from Greek?

    I guess I never do hear the second one but since authors and speakers
    like to turn a phrase, even if it exists in Greek, wouldn't it arise in
    English just because it makes sense, equally with in or with?

    --
    Please say where you live, or what
    area's English you are asking about.
    So your question or answer makes sense.
    . .
    I have lived all my life in the USA,
    Western Pa. Indianapolis, Chicago,
    Brooklyn, Baltimore.

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pascal Stumpf@21:1/5 to HenHanna on Mon Aug 26 17:34:52 2024
    XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

    HenHanna <[email protected]> wrote:

    in Cicero's speech (62 B.C.) Pro Sulla (Section 62.1)

    "Ac ne haec quidem P. Sullae mihi
    videtur silentio praetereunda esse virtus"

    ("And even this virtue of Publius Sulla
    seems to me to [be one which] ought not
    to be passed by in/with silence").


    -- pass over in silence
    -- pass over with silence ------- is this expression from Greek?

    'silentio' is, I think, best explained as dativus finalis, i.e. "his virtue
    is not to be passed over, such that silence may befall it". Alternatively,
    a dativus commodi: "be passed over to silence".

    There is indeed a common Greek expression σιωπῇ, but simply assuming a borrowing of the Greek idiom does not do Cicero justice in this case.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Cryer@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 26 19:20:10 2024
    XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

    UGFzY2FsIFN0dW1wZiB3cm90ZToNCj4gSGVuSGFubmEgPEhlbkhhbm5hQGRldm51bGwudGI+ IHdyb3RlOg0KPj4NCj4+ICAgIGluIENpY2VybydzIHNwZWVjaCAoNjIgQi5DLikgICAgICAg IFBybyBTdWxsYSAgKFNlY3Rpb24gNjIuMSkNCj4+DQo+PiAgICAgICAgICAgIkFjIG5lIGhh ZWMgcXVpZGVtIFAuIFN1bGxhZSBtaWhpDQo+PiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHZpZGV0dXIgc2ls ZW50aW8gcHJhZXRlcmV1bmRhIGVzc2UgdmlydHVzIg0KPj4NCj4+ICAgICAgICAgICAoIkFu ZCBldmVuIHRoaXMgdmlydHVlIG9mIFB1YmxpdXMgU3VsbGENCj4+ICAgICAgICAgICAgICBz ZWVtcyB0byBtZSB0byBbYmUgb25lIHdoaWNoXSAgIG91Z2h0IG5vdA0KPj4gICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgdG8gYmUgcGFzc2VkIGJ5ICBpbi93aXRoIHNpbGVuY2UiKS4NCj4+DQo+ Pg0KPj4gLS0gcGFzcyBvdmVyIGluIHNpbGVuY2UNCj4+IC0tIHBhc3Mgb3ZlciB3aXRoIHNp bGVuY2UgIC0tLS0tLS0gaXMgdGhpcyBleHByZXNzaW9uIGZyb20gR3JlZWs/DQo+IA0KPiAn c2lsZW50aW8nIGlzLCBJIHRoaW5rLCBiZXN0IGV4cGxhaW5lZCBhcyBkYXRpdnVzIGZpbmFs aXMsIGkuZS4gImhpcyB2aXJ0dWUNCj4gaXMgbm90IHRvIGJlIHBhc3NlZCBvdmVyLCBzdWNo IHRoYXQgc2lsZW5jZSBtYXkgYmVmYWxsIGl0Ii4gIEFsdGVybmF0aXZlbHksDQo+IGEgZGF0 aXZ1cyBjb21tb2RpOiAiYmUgcGFzc2VkIG92ZXIgdG8gc2lsZW5jZSIuDQo+IA0KPiBUaGVy ZSBpcyBpbmRlZWQgYSBjb21tb24gR3JlZWsgZXhwcmVzc2lvbiDPg865z4nPgOG/hywgYnV0 IHNpbXBseSBhc3N1bWluZyBhDQo+IGJvcnJvd2luZyBvZiB0aGUgR3JlZWsgaWRpb20gZG9l cyBub3QgZG8gQ2ljZXJvIGp1c3RpY2UgaW4gdGhpcyBjYXNlLg0KDQpObywgbm8sIG5vLiBZ b3UndmUgY29tcGxldGVseSBtaXN1bmRlcnN0b29kIHRoZSBMYXRpbiBhYmxhdGl2ZS4NCkdy YW1tYXJpYW5zIGxvdmUgdG8gc3BsaXQgdGhlIHVzYWdlczsgYWJsYXRpdmUgb2YgbWFubmVy LCBhYmxhdGl2ZSBvZiANCnRpbWUsIGFibGF0aXZlIG9mIGFjY29tcGFueWluZyBjaXJjdW1z dGFuY2VzLg0KWW91IGZpbmQgdGhlbSBhbGwgb3ZlciB0aGUgcGxhY2UgaW4gY2xhc3NpY2Fs IExhdGluOyBlc3BlY2lhbGx5IHRoZSANCmFibGF0aXZlIGFic29sdXRlLg0KDQpXb3VsZCB5 b3UgYmF1bGsgYXQgInNpbGVudGlvIGZhY3RvIiBvciAic2lsZW50aW8gb2J0ZW50byI/DQpO by4NCk9yICJzaWxlbnRpbyBvcnRvIj8NCk5vDQoNCldoYXQgeW91J3JlIHdpdG5lc3Npbmcg d2l0aCB0aGUgc2ltcGxlICJzaWxlbnRpbyIgaXMgYSBraW5kIG9mIA0KZm9yZXNob3J0ZW5l ZCBhYmxhdGl2ZSBhYnNvbHV0ZS4gVGhhdCdzIGhvdyBpdCBzb3VuZGVkIGluIG5hdGl2ZSBl YXJzLiANClRoZSBhYmxhdGl2ZSBjYXNlIGN1dHMgaXQgb2ZmIGZyb20gdGhlIG1haW4gY2xh dXNlIHN0cnVjdHVyZS4NCk5vdywgdGhlIHZlcmIgdG8gYmUgImVzc2UiIGhhZCBubyBwcmVz ZW50IHBhcnRpY2lwbGUsIGJ1dCB0aGF0J3Mgd2hhdCANCm5hdGl2ZSBlYXJzIGhlYXJkOyBz aWxlbmNlIGJlaW5nIHRoZXJlLg0KDQpFZA0KDQoNCg==

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Aidan Kehoe@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 26 23:06:09 2024
    XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

    Ar an séú lá is fiche de mí Lúnasa, scríobh Pascal Stumpf:

    HenHanna <[email protected]> wrote:

    in Cicero's speech (62 B.C.) Pro Sulla (Section 62.1)

    "Ac ne haec quidem P. Sullae mihi
    videtur silentio praetereunda esse virtus"

    ("And even this virtue of Publius Sulla
    seems to me to [be one which] ought not
    to be passed by in/with silence").


    -- pass over in silence
    -- pass over with silence ------- is this expression from Greek?

    'silentio' is, I think, best explained as dativus finalis, i.e. "his virtue is not to be passed over, such that silence may befall it". Alternatively, a dativus commodi: "be passed over to silence".

    There is indeed a common Greek expression σιωπῇ, but simply assuming a
    borrowing of the Greek idiom does not do Cicero justice in this case.

    Pascal’s Greek was not encoded with the appropriate MIME type. It should read:

    “There is indeed a common Greek expression σιωπῇ, but simply assuming a
    borrowing of the Greek idiom does not do Cicero justice in this case.”

    (sigma, iota, omega, pi, eta with perispomeni and ypogegrammeni).

    --
    ‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
    How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
    (C. Moore)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)