XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

Do you have this a- (or something like it) in French or Latin ?


___________________________

a- in [Times they are a-changing] and a- in [afoot, abroad, alit]
------ same or different etym.?


The "a-" in "Times They Are A-Changin'" vs. "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"


The "a-" in these phrases has different etymological origins.

--- "Times They Are A-Changin'"

The "a-" in this phrase is a verbal particle, a
grammatical element that functions as a marker of the progressive
aspect. It indicates that an action is ongoing or continuous. This usage
is common in older English and dialects.



--- "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"

The "a-" in these words is a prefix, a morpheme added to
the beginning of a word to change its meaning. In these cases, it is a
remnant of the Old English preposition "on" or "in," indicating location
or direction.


So, while both use the letter "a-," they have distinct roles in the
language.

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XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

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XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

Il 18/07/2024 09:24, Ed Cryer ha scritto:

Also not to be confused with alpha privative, which comes from Greek; an alpha in front of a word turns it negative (Latin uses "in").

If I remember correctly, Greek α-privative and Latin "in-" derive from
the Indo-European nasal sonant "n̥".
Bepe

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Le 17/07/2024 à 23:46, HenHanna a écrit :

Do you have  this     a-    (or something like it) in French or Latin ?

I don't think French has it. 'a-' can be used to mark direction (amener)
or negation (anormal):

<https://dictionnaire.lerobert.com/definition/a>

(My usual Larousse is speaking not unto me this morning.)

'e-' also comes to mind, marking a lack of something: écrémé (skimmed (milk)), écervelé (brainless), éborgner (to remove an eye)....

___________________________

a- in [Times they are a-changing]  and  a- in [afoot, abroad, alit]
         ------ same or different etym.?

The "a-" in "Times They Are A-Changin'" vs. "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"

The "a-" in these phrases has different etymological origins.

--- "Times They Are A-Changin'"

                The "a-" in this phrase is a verbal particle, a
grammatical element that functions as a marker of the progressive
aspect. It indicates that an action is ongoing or continuous. This usage
is common in older English and dialects.

---  "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"

              The "a-" in these words is a prefix, a morpheme added to
the beginning of a word to change its meaning. In these cases, it is a remnant of the Old English preposition "on" or "in," indicating location
or direction.

So, while both use the letter "a-," they have distinct roles in the
language.

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XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

Le 19/07/2024 à 09:48, Hibou a écrit :

(My usual Larousse is speaking not unto me this morning.)

Very likely because of this:

'Planes grounded as worldwide IT outage hits airlines, banks and
healthcare' -
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cnk4jdwp49et>

Never allow automatic patching, say I (policy at Hibou Towers since
forever); wait a bit and see.

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XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

On 7/19/2024 1:48 AM, Hibou wrote:

Le 17/07/2024 à 23:46, HenHanna a écrit :

Do you have  this     a-    (or something like it) in French or Latin ?

I don't think French has it. 'a-' can be used to mark direction (amener)
or negation (anormal):

<https://dictionnaire.lerobert.com/definition/a>

(My usual Larousse is speaking not unto me this morning.)

'e-' also comes to mind, marking a lack of something: écrémé (skimmed (milk)), écervelé (brainless), éborgner (to remove an eye)....

___________________________

a- in [Times they are a-changing]  and  a- in [afoot, abroad, alit]
          ------ same or different etym.?

The "a-" in "Times They Are A-Changin'" vs. "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"

The "a-" in these phrases has different etymological origins.

--- "Times They Are A-Changin'"

                 The "a-" in this phrase is a verbal particle, a
grammatical element that functions as a marker of the progressive
aspect. It indicates that an action is ongoing or continuous. This
usage is common in older English and dialects.

---  "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"

               The "a-" in these words is a prefix, a morpheme added
to the beginning of a word to change its meaning. In these cases, it
is a remnant of the Old English preposition "on" or "in," indicating
location or direction.

So, while both use the letter "a-," they have distinct roles in the
language.

'e-' also comes to mind, marking a lack of something: écrémé (skimmed (milk)), écervelé (brainless), éborgner (to remove an eye)....

eviscerate (an Engineer missing a Thumb)

emasculate

'a-' can be used to mark direction (amener)

amenable.



Yes, the "a" in the French verb "amener" does play a role in indicating direction. Here's the breakdown:

Amener itself means "to bring someone or something to a specific location."

The "a" emphasizes the destination, the place where the person or thing
is being brought.


In simpler terms, it highlights the "to" part of "bring someone to" a place.

Here's an example:

J'amène mon fils à l'école. (I take my son to school)
Here, "école" (school) is the destination, and "amène" with its "a" emphasizes that the son is being brought "to" school.

For comparison, there's another verb "emmener" that also means "to bring someone somewhere." However, "emmener" suggests that you'll be going to
the place with the person and staying there too.

____________________

Old French "amener" is further broken down into two parts:

"a-" which is a prefix meaning "to" (derived from Latin "ad" and
ultimately Proto-Indo-European "hed" meaning "at")

"mener" which is a verb meaning "to lead"


__________________________


Here are some examples of verbs in different languages with a- prefixes
that function similarly to "amener" (to bring someone/something to a
location):

French:

Approcher (a- + procher) - To bring someone/something closer (emphasizes bringing near)

Apporter (a- + porter) - To bring something to someone (emphasizes
bringing something specifically)
English:

Arrive (a- + rive) - To reach a destination (emphasizes reaching a final
point)

Approach (a- + proach) - To come closer to someone/something (similar to
French "approcher")



German:

Ankommen (an- + kommen) - To arrive (emphasizes reaching a destination,
similar to English "arrive")

Abholen (ab- + holen) - To pick someone/something up (emphasizes taking someone/something away from a location)


Italian: -- Affrontare (a- + fronte) - To confront someone (emphasizes
facing someone)

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XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

HenHanna wrote:

Do you have  this     a-    (or something like it) in French or Latin ?
___________________________

a- in [Times they are a-changing]  and  a- in [afoot, abroad, alit]
         ------ same or different etym.?

The "a-" in "Times They Are A-Changin'" vs. "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"

The "a-" in these phrases has different etymological origins.

--- "Times They Are A-Changin'"

                The "a-" in this phrase is a verbal particle, a
grammatical element that functions as a marker of the progressive
aspect. It indicates that an action is ongoing or continuous. This usage
is common in older English and dialects.

---  "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"

              The "a-" in these words is a prefix, a morpheme added to
the beginning of a word to change its meaning. In these cases, it is a remnant of the Old English preposition "on" or "in," indicating location
or direction.

So, while both use the letter "a-," they have distinct roles in the
language.

I presume you are referring to the Bob Dylan song
"The Times they are a-changin'" ? If so

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Times_They_Are_a-Changin%27_(song)

"The a- in the song title is an archaic
intensifying prefix, as in the British songs
"A-Hunting We Will Go" and "Here We Come
a-Wassailing", from the 18th and 19th century."

Hmmm. I'll take their word for it. Lots of google
hits for "intensifying prefix". Hadn't looked into
this sort of thing before. There's the words you
mentioned, like "abroad", but I'd sorta mostly
encountered it in lyrics like the Dylan song. It
always seemed like a bridging sound (don't know the
musical term for that). (notice, "sorta", with -a
suffix)

Here's another example, not necessarily a
good one, of a song by the old country and
western satirists Homer and Jethro. This is
a satire of the song "Sink the Bismarck" which
they called "We Didn't Sink the Bismarck"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L0jlnMkN_4

with lyrics with the a-

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/homer-and-jethro-we-didn%E2%80%99t-sink-bismarck-lyrics.html

"Chasin' after women while our ship was overhauled,
A-livin' it up on grapefruit juice and sickbay alcohol."

"Tony, our Italian cook, was a-settin' on the deck,
And we were a-peelin' 'taters. We must 'a' peeled a peck."

This all seems like two different things. The lyrics
usage don't seem to me to imply direction or location.

Hah - here's what I'm looking for

https://ygdp.yale.edu/phenomena/a-prefixing

"He just kep' a-beggin' and a-cryin' and
a-wantin' to go out."

"A-prefixing is a phenomenon where a prefix,
a-, attaches to a verbal form with the
suffix -ing..."

Definitely what I'm thinking of. I'll leave the Homer
and Jethro part in ;)

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On 2024-07-24, Tilde <[email protected]d> wrote:

I presume you are referring to the Bob Dylan song
"The Times they are a-changin'" ? If so

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Times_They_Are_a-Changin%27_(song)

"The a- in the song title is an archaic
intensifying prefix, as in the British songs
"A-Hunting We Will Go" and "Here We Come
a-Wassailing", from the 18th and 19th century."

As far as I know, it's a participle prefix. It goes back to Old
English ge- /je/, which could be used to give a past participle a
perfective meaning. This was generalized into a prefix for past
participles and even present participles, but remained dialectal.
For instance, use of a- with present particles is a feature of
Appalachian English.

Compare ge- in German. In Old High German this again could be used
to give a past participle a perfective meaning, but eventually it
was simply generalized to all past participles if not blocked by
another prefix.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber [email protected]

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Op 24-7-2024 om 14:02 schreef Christian Weisgerber:

On 2024-07-24, Tilde <[email protected]d> wrote:

I presume you are referring to the Bob Dylan song
"The Times they are a-changin'" ? If so

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Times_They_Are_a-Changin%27_(song)

"The a- in the song title is an archaic
intensifying prefix, as in the British songs
"A-Hunting We Will Go" and "Here We Come
a-Wassailing", from the 18th and 19th century."

As far as I know, it's a participle prefix. It goes back to Old
English ge- /je/, which could be used to give a past participle a
perfective meaning. This was generalized into a prefix for past
participles and even present participles, but remained dialectal.
For instance, use of a- with present particles is a feature of
Appalachian English.

Compare ge- in German. In Old High German this again could be used
to give a past participle a perfective meaning, but eventually it
was simply generalized to all past participles if not blocked by
another prefix.

According to etymonline it stems from "on": https://www.etymonline.com/word/A#etymonline_v_2 https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=a-

which, if correct, makes it similar to the Dutch 'progressive' form
"aan het jagen (zijn)", be 'a-hunting'.

--
guido wugi

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