• Maya Angelou died (28-5-2014)

    From Ross Clark@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 29 22:59:23 2024
    African-American writer and activist.
    Born Marguerite Annie Johnson, St.Louis, Missouri, 1928.

    For about five years in her childhood, she was mute (did not speak), as
    a reaction to traumatic events. This was an important factor in
    determining the direction of her life.

    "Maya": a childhood nickname given by her brother
    "Angelou": from Angelos, a Greek man she was married to 1951-54.
    She took on the exotic name at a time when she was working as a
    night-club "calypso" dancer.

    Her writings are familiar to many school children these days, but have
    been banned in some places.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Angelou

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Ross Clark on Thu May 30 09:34:42 2024
    On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    African-American writer and activist.

    African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in
    the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She
    may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
    African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
    mother), but I am not Irish.

    Born Marguerite Annie Johnson, St.Louis, Missouri, 1928.

    For about five years in her childhood, she was mute (did not speak), as
    a reaction to traumatic events. This was an important factor in
    determining the direction of her life.

    "Maya": a childhood nickname given by her brother
    "Angelou": from Angelos, a Greek man she was married to 1951-54.
    She took on the exotic name at a time when she was working as a
    night-club "calypso" dancer.

    Her writings are familiar to many school children these days, but have
    been banned in some places.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Angelou


    --
    Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
    in England until 1987.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ross Clark@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Fri May 31 00:05:34 2024
    On 30/05/2024 7:34 p.m., Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
    On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    African-American writer and activist.

    African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in
    the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She
    may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
    African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
    mother), but I am not Irish.

    Nor was she African. "African-American" (note hyphen) is a standard term
    for Americans with African ancestry (within the last few centuries, that
    is). Wikipedia also calls her just "American" (at the top), but later
    considers her "African American" (no hyphen). It's clear that her
    membership in that ethnic group had a great deal to do with her life and
    work. (She did actually live in Africa for a few years in the 1960s.)

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  • From Antonio Marques@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Thu May 30 12:03:08 2024
    Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    African-American writer and activist.

    African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in
    the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She
    may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
    African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
    mother), but I am not Irish.

    And here I was, thinking you came from Kernow.
    Tread carefully, sir.

    An unabashedly racist* relative of mine (an older generation, Archie Bunker type, still a great guy), whenever he wanted to indicate a black person's
    race respectfully*, said 'who has african blood'.

    (*) The subtype who knows a number of blacks, talks about 'them', but also enjoys having meals with 'them' and would stand for 'them' where needed. I guess the other subtype is worse.

    (**) We don't have a word for that in portuguese. While in english 'black'
    is neutral, in portuguese (preto) it can be construed as derogatory. We
    have fiddled with 'negro', sounds too stilted and hence is a problem. Incredible as it may seem, I've heard people refer to black people who are portuguese and have remote ancestors in eastern Africa as
    'african-american'...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Peter Moylan@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Fri May 31 00:08:55 2024
    On 30/05/24 17:34, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
    On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    African-American writer and activist.

    African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived
    in the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American.
    She may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make
    her African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
    mother), but I am not Irish.

    I agree with your logic. I too have Irish ancestors, but I am not Irish.

    The same question in the USA seems to require the "how many
    generationas" question.

    --
    Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW

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  • From Adam Funk@21:1/5 to Ross Clark on Thu May 30 14:51:53 2024
    On 2024-05-30, Ross Clark wrote:

    On 30/05/2024 7:34 p.m., Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
    On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    African-American writer and activist.

    African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in
    the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She
    may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
    African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
    mother), but I am not Irish.

    Nor was she African. "African-American" (note hyphen) is a standard term
    for Americans with African ancestry (within the last few centuries, that
    is). Wikipedia also calls her just "American" (at the top), but later considers her "African American" (no hyphen). It's clear that her
    membership in that ethnic group had a great deal to do with her life and work. (She did actually live in Africa for a few years in the 1960s.)

    Is there a reason why some people insist it should not be hyphenated?
    It looks strange to me (especially in comparison with all the other Xyz-American forms).


    --
    I have a great programming joke but it's only
    funny on my machine.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Antonio Marques on Thu May 30 18:45:13 2024
    On 2024-05-30 12:03:08 +0000, Antonio Marques said:

    Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    African-American writer and activist.

    African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in
    the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She
    may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
    African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
    mother), but I am not Irish.

    And here I was, thinking you came from Kernow.

    No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
    someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more
    common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
    is in Devon.
    Tread carefully, sir.

    An unabashedly racist* relative of mine (an older generation, Archie Bunker type, still a great guy), whenever he wanted to indicate a black person's race respectfully*, said 'who has african blood'.

    (*) The subtype who knows a number of blacks, talks about 'them', but also enjoys having meals with 'them' and would stand for 'them' where needed. I guess the other subtype is worse.

    (**) We don't have a word for that in portuguese. While in english 'black'
    is neutral, in portuguese (preto) it can be construed as derogatory. We
    have fiddled with 'negro', sounds too stilted and hence is a problem. Incredible as it may seem, I've heard people refer to black people who are portuguese and have remote ancestors in eastern Africa as 'african-american'...


    --
    Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
    in England until 1987.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Thu May 30 19:07:09 2024
    On 2024-05-30 16:45:13 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:

    On 2024-05-30 12:03:08 +0000, Antonio Marques said:

    Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    African-American writer and activist.

    African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in
    the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She
    may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
    African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
    mother), but I am not Irish.

    And here I was, thinking you came from Kernow.

    No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more
    common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
    is in Devon.

    I used to know Mar�a Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was
    Spanish, not Portuguese.

    Tread carefully, sir.

    An unabashedly racist* relative of mine (an older generation, Archie Bunker >> type, still a great guy), whenever he wanted to indicate a black person's
    race respectfully*, said 'who has african blood'.

    (*) The subtype who knows a number of blacks, talks about 'them', but also >> enjoys having meals with 'them' and would stand for 'them' where needed. I >> guess the other subtype is worse.

    (**) We don't have a word for that in portuguese. While in english 'black' >> is neutral, in portuguese (preto) it can be construed as derogatory. We
    have fiddled with 'negro', sounds too stilted and hence is a problem.
    Incredible as it may seem, I've heard people refer to black people who are >> portuguese and have remote ancestors in eastern Africa as
    'african-american'...


    --
    Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
    in England until 1987.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Aidan Kehoe@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 30 18:49:47 2024
    Ar an t-aonú lá is triochad de mí Bealtaine, scríobh Peter Moylan:

    On 30/05/24 17:34, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
    On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    African-American writer and activist.

    African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived
    in the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American.
    She may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make
    her African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
    mother), but I am not Irish.

    I agree with your logic. I too have Irish ancestors, but I am not Irish.

    The closest thing to truth in this specific question is Irish law, and by Irish law, if Athel’s mother was born in Ireland before 2005 and was entitled to Irish citizenship, Athel has been an Irish citizen from birth.

    --
    ‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
    How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
    (C. Moore)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Christian Weisgerber@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Thu May 30 18:47:03 2024
    On 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:

    No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
    someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more
    common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
    is in Devon.

    I used to know María Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was Spanish, not Portuguese.

    Actress Cécile de France is Belgian.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber [email protected]

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  • From Antonio Marques@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Thu May 30 20:33:29 2024
    Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-30 12:03:08 +0000, Antonio Marques said:

    Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    African-American writer and activist.

    African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in
    the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She
    may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
    African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
    mother), but I am not Irish.

    And here I was, thinking you came from Kernow.

    No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish.

    ? One would think it even less of a point of calling someone Cornish if
    they were not, well, Cornish in some way.


    The name is much more
    common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
    is in Devon.
    Tread carefully, sir.

    An unabashedly racist* relative of mine (an older generation, Archie Bunker >> type, still a great guy), whenever he wanted to indicate a black person's
    race respectfully*, said 'who has african blood'.

    (*) The subtype who knows a number of blacks, talks about 'them', but also >> enjoys having meals with 'them' and would stand for 'them' where needed. I >> guess the other subtype is worse.

    (**) We don't have a word for that in portuguese. While in english 'black' >> is neutral, in portuguese (preto) it can be construed as derogatory. We
    have fiddled with 'negro', sounds too stilted and hence is a problem.
    Incredible as it may seem, I've heard people refer to black people who are >> portuguese and have remote ancestors in eastern Africa as
    'african-american'...



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Christian Weisgerber on Fri May 31 09:50:03 2024
    On 2024-05-30 18:47:03 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:

    On 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:

    No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
    someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more
    common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
    is in Devon.

    I used to know Mar�a Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was
    Spanish, not Portuguese.

    Actress C�cile de France is Belgian.

    Indeed. I didn't think of her, but I knew she was Belgian.


    --
    Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
    in England until 1987.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Antonio Marques on Fri May 31 10:02:08 2024
    On 2024-05-30 20:33:29 +0000, Antonio Marques said:

    Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-30 12:03:08 +0000, Antonio Marques said:

    Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    African-American writer and activist.

    African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in >>>> the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She >>>> may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
    African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
    mother), but I am not Irish.

    And here I was, thinking you came from Kernow.

    No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
    someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish.

    ? One would think it even less of a point of calling someone Cornish if
    they were not, well, Cornish in some way.

    The name originated in Devon in the 15th century and was applied to
    people who had moved from Cornwall to Devon. So, if you don't mind
    going back to the 15th century then yes, I am Cornish "in some way".

    The name is much more
    common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
    is in Devon.
    Tread carefully, sir.

    An unabashedly racist* relative of mine (an older generation, Archie Bunker >>> type, still a great guy), whenever he wanted to indicate a black person's >>> race respectfully*, said 'who has african blood'.

    (*) The subtype who knows a number of blacks, talks about 'them', but also >>> enjoys having meals with 'them' and would stand for 'them' where needed. I >>> guess the other subtype is worse.

    (**) We don't have a word for that in portuguese. While in english 'black' >>> is neutral, in portuguese (preto) it can be construed as derogatory. We
    have fiddled with 'negro', sounds too stilted and hence is a problem.
    Incredible as it may seem, I've heard people refer to black people who are >>> portuguese and have remote ancestors in eastern Africa as
    'african-american'...


    --
    Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
    in England until 1987.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Aidan Kehoe on Fri May 31 09:58:39 2024
    On 2024-05-30 17:49:47 +0000, Aidan Kehoe said:

    Ar an t-aonú lá is triochad de mí Bealtaine, scríobh Peter Moylan:

    On 30/05/24 17:34, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
    On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    African-American writer and activist.

    African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived
    in the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make
    her African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
    mother), but I am not Irish.

    I agree with your logic. I too have Irish ancestors, but I am not Irish.

    The closest thing to truth in this specific question is Irish law, and by Irish
    law, if Athel’s mother was born in Ireland before 2005 and was entitled to Irish citizenship, Athel has been an Irish citizen from birth.

    My mother was born a bit before 2005 (95 years before, in fact). I
    haven't studied Irish law, but I knew that I was qualified to apply for
    an Irish passport. When the Brexit disaster hit us I seriously
    considered doing that, but my wife was certainly not qualified, so we
    decided to go for French -- an incredibly bureaucratic business, but
    eventually crowned with success. One of my nephews is in the process of applying for an Irish passport, but with what success I don't know, as
    my sister hasn't mentioned it recently.


    --
    Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
    in England until 1987.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Fri May 31 16:55:18 2024
    On 2024-05-31 07:50:03 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:

    On 2024-05-30 18:47:03 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:

    On 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:

    No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig >>>> someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more
    common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it >>>> is in Devon.

    I used to know Mar�a Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was
    Spanish, not Portuguese.

    Actress C�cile de France is Belgian.

    Indeed. I didn't think of her, but I knew she was Belgian.

    An even more prominent example is Fran�ois Hollande: he is not Dutch,
    but is French.


    --
    Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
    in England until 1987.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Aidan Kehoe@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 31 22:06:53 2024
    Ar an t-aonú lá is triochad de mí Bealtaine, scríobh Athel Cornish-Bowden:

    On 2024-05-31 07:50:03 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:

    On 2024-05-30 18:47:03 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:

    On 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:

    No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig >>>> someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more >>>> common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it >>>> is in Devon.

    I used to know María Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was >>> Spanish, not Portuguese.

    Actress Cécile de France is Belgian.

    Indeed. I didn't think of her, but I knew she was Belgian.

    An even more prominent example is François Hollande: he is not Dutch, but is
    French.

    Ian Fleming was also British, not from Flanders.

    Ian Paisley was (and Ian Óg Paisley is) not from Paisley.

    George C. Scott was from West Virginia, not Scotland.

    Neither the actor James Franco nor the deceased caudillo of Spain have any immediate family background in Franconia, nor even France.

    Percy French, Irish songwriter, was not French by nationality.

    Counterexample; Charles de Gaulle was French, but his name was Dutch.

    Complication; Chester Nimitz was of recent German descent, but had US nationality; his family name is of Slavic origin but designates a German.

    I’m sure I could (and we could) keep going with these!

    --
    ‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
    How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
    (C. Moore)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Antonio Marques@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Fri May 31 21:53:45 2024
    Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-30 20:33:29 +0000, Antonio Marques said:

    Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-30 12:03:08 +0000, Antonio Marques said:

    Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    African-American writer and activist.

    African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in >>>>> the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She >>>>> may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
    African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
    mother), but I am not Irish.

    And here I was, thinking you came from Kernow.

    No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
    someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish.

    ? One would think it even less of a point of calling someone Cornish if
    they were not, well, Cornish in some way.

    The name originated in Devon in the 15th century and was applied to
    people who had moved from Cornwall to Devon. So, if you don't mind
    going back to the 15th century then yes, I am Cornish "in some way".

    There you are.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ruud Harmsen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 1 09:14:18 2024
    Fri, 31 May 2024 22:06:53 +0100: Aidan Kehoe <[email protected]>
    scribeva:
    Complication; Chester Nimitz was of recent German descent, but had US >nationality; his family name is of Slavic origin but designates a German.

    Slavic or Hungarian? Németh is a common Hungarian surname, and means
    "German".
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Németh https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/német#Hungarian
    Of Slavic origin, litterally mute, people who cannot speak (a Slavic
    language). Cf. barbaric.
    --
    Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ruud Harmsen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 1 09:08:27 2024
    Fri, 31 May 2024 16:55:18 +0200: Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]>
    scribeva:

    On 2024-05-31 07:50:03 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:

    On 2024-05-30 18:47:03 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:

    On 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:

    No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig >>>>> someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more >>>>> common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it >>>>> is in Devon.

    I used to know María Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was
    Spanish, not Portuguese.

    Actress Cécile de France is Belgian.

    Indeed. I didn't think of her, but I knew she was Belgian.

    An even more prominent example is François Hollande: he is not Dutch,
    but is French.

    Yes. And Friedrich Engels wasn't English (in Dutch: Engels), but
    German.
    https://rudhar.com/lingtics/hollande.htm
    Frans Duijts is a Dutch singer who has two language names in his name:
    French and German, in Dutch: Frans and Duits (the Duijts in his name
    can be interpreted as an older spelling variant).

    Meanwhile, Luís Montenegro has become the prime-minister of Portugal.
    As I wrote somewhere, it would be nice if someone with the surname
    Portugal could become prime minister of Montenegro (Crna Gora).

    --
    Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Aidan Kehoe on Sat Jun 1 10:13:04 2024
    On 2024-05-31 21:06:53 +0000, Aidan Kehoe said:

    Ar an t-aonú lá is triochad de mí Bealtaine, scríobh Athel Cornish-Bowden:

    On 2024-05-31 07:50:03 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:

    On 2024-05-30 18:47:03 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:

    On 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:

    No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
    someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more >>>> common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
    is in Devon.

    I used to know María Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was >>> Spanish, not Portuguese.

    Actress Cécile de France is Belgian.

    Indeed. I didn't think of her, but I knew she was Belgian.

    An even more prominent example is François Hollande: he is not Dutch, but is
    French.

    Ian Fleming was also British, not from Flanders.

    Ian Paisley was (and Ian Óg Paisley is) not from Paisley.

    George C. Scott was from West Virginia, not Scotland.

    Neither the actor James Franco nor the deceased caudillo of Spain have any immediate family background in Franconia, nor even France.

    Percy French, Irish songwriter, was not French by nationality.

    Counterexample; Charles de Gaulle was French, but his name was Dutch.

    Complication; Chester Nimitz was of recent German descent, but had US nationality; his family name is of Slavic origin but designates a German.

    I’m sure I could (and we could) keep going with these!

    As a possible counterexample, what about Deutsch and Deutscher, which
    seem to be reasonably common surnames in Germany?


    --
    Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
    in England until 1987.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Aidan Kehoe@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 1 15:40:36 2024
    Ar an chéad lá de mí Meitheamh, scríobh Athel Cornish-Bowden:

    On 2024-05-31 21:06:53 +0000, Aidan Kehoe said:

    Ar an t-aonú lá is triochad de mí Bealtaine, scríobh Athel Cornish-Bowden:

    On 2024-05-31 07:50:03 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:

    On 2024-05-30 18:47:03 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:

    On 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:

    No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
    someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more
    common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
    is in Devon.

    I used to know María Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was
    Spanish, not Portuguese.

    Actress Cécile de France is Belgian.

    Indeed. I didn't think of her, but I knew she was Belgian.

    An even more prominent example is François Hollande: he is not Dutch, but is
    French.

    Ian Fleming was also British, not from Flanders.

    Ian Paisley was (and Ian Óg Paisley is) not from Paisley.

    George C. Scott was from West Virginia, not Scotland.

    Neither the actor James Franco nor the deceased caudillo of Spain have any immediate family background in Franconia, nor even France.

    Percy French, Irish songwriter, was not French by nationality.

    Counterexample; Charles de Gaulle was French, but his name was Dutch.

    Complication; Chester Nimitz was of recent German descent, but had US nationality; his family name is of Slavic origin but designates a German.

    I’m sure I could (and we could) keep going with these!

    As a possible counterexample, what about Deutsch and Deutscher, which seem to
    be reasonably common surnames in Germany?

    https://wiki.genealogy.net/Deutsch_(Familienname) comments:

    »Der Name wurde vor allem in Grenzgebieten mit gemischter Bevölkerung gegeben,
    später auch jüdischer Name«

    I learned for the first time today of Alfred Deutsch-German, an Austrian Jew who was killed in the Holocaust.

    --
    ‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
    How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
    (C. Moore)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Aidan Kehoe on Sat Jun 1 18:05:22 2024
    On 2024-06-01 14:40:36 +0000, Aidan Kehoe said:

    Ar an chéad lá de mí Meitheamh, scríobh Athel Cornish-Bowden:

    On 2024-05-31 21:06:53 +0000, Aidan Kehoe said:

    Ar an t-aonú lá is triochad de mí Bealtaine, scríobh Athel
    Cornish-Bowden:

    On 2024-05-31 07:50:03 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:

    On 2024-05-30 18:47:03 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:

    On 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:

    No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the
    point of callig
    someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is
    much more
    common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in
    Somerset than it
    is in Devon.

    I used to know María Teresa Miras Portugal (until she
    died): she was
    Spanish, not Portuguese.

    Actress Cécile de France is Belgian.

    Indeed. I didn't think of her, but I knew she was Belgian.

    An even more prominent example is François Hollande: he is not
    Dutch, but is
    French.

    Ian Fleming was also British, not from Flanders.

    Ian Paisley was (and Ian Óg Paisley is) not from Paisley.

    George C. Scott was from West Virginia, not Scotland.

    Neither the actor James Franco nor the deceased caudillo of Spain have any
    immediate family background in Franconia, nor even France.

    Percy French, Irish songwriter, was not French by nationality.

    Counterexample; Charles de Gaulle was French, but his name was Dutch.

    Complication; Chester Nimitz was of recent German descent, but had US nationality; his family name is of Slavic origin but designates a German.

    I’m sure I could (and we could) keep going with these!

    As a possible counterexample, what about Deutsch and Deutscher,
    which seem to
    be reasonably common surnames in Germany?

    https://wiki.genealogy.net/Deutsch_(Familienname) comments:

    »Der Name wurde vor allem in Grenzgebieten mit gemischter Bevölkerung gegeben,
    später auch jüdischer Name«

    That makes a lot of sense. Thanks. As most of the people called Deutsch
    that I've come across were/are Jewish I did wonder if it was a Jewish
    name.

    I learned for the first time today of Alfred Deutsch-German, an Austrian Jew who was killed in the Holocaust.


    --
    Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
    in England until 1987.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam Funk@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Mon Jun 3 12:28:40 2024
    On 2024-05-31, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

    On 2024-05-30 20:33:29 +0000, Antonio Marques said:

    Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-30 12:03:08 +0000, Antonio Marques said:

    Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:

    African-American writer and activist.

    African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in >>>>> the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She >>>>> may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
    African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
    mother), but I am not Irish.

    And here I was, thinking you came from Kernow.

    No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
    someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish.

    ? One would think it even less of a point of calling someone Cornish if
    they were not, well, Cornish in some way.

    The name originated in Devon in the 15th century and was applied to
    people who had moved from Cornwall to Devon. So, if you don't mind
    going back to the 15th century then yes, I am Cornish "in some way".

    ISTR there's a similar explanation for the Cornish family name in
    Robertson Davies' Cornish Trilogy (the family are in Canada by the
    time the novels start).


    --
    The stakes are high and so am I

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)