African-American writer and activist.
Born Marguerite Annie Johnson, St.Louis, Missouri, 1928.
For about five years in her childhood, she was mute (did not speak), as
a reaction to traumatic events. This was an important factor in
determining the direction of her life.
"Maya": a childhood nickname given by her brother
"Angelou": from Angelos, a Greek man she was married to 1951-54.
She took on the exotic name at a time when she was working as a
night-club "calypso" dancer.
Her writings are familiar to many school children these days, but have
been banned in some places.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Angelou
On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:
African-American writer and activist.
African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in
the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She
may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
mother), but I am not Irish.
On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:
African-American writer and activist.
African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in
the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She
may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
mother), but I am not Irish.
On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:
African-American writer and activist.
African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived
in the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American.
She may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make
her African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
mother), but I am not Irish.
On 30/05/2024 7:34 p.m., Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:
African-American writer and activist.
African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in
the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She
may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
mother), but I am not Irish.
Nor was she African. "African-American" (note hyphen) is a standard term
for Americans with African ancestry (within the last few centuries, that
is). Wikipedia also calls her just "American" (at the top), but later considers her "African American" (no hyphen). It's clear that her
membership in that ethnic group had a great deal to do with her life and work. (She did actually live in Africa for a few years in the 1960s.)
Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:
African-American writer and activist.
African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in
the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She
may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
mother), but I am not Irish.
And here I was, thinking you came from Kernow.
Tread carefully, sir.
An unabashedly racist* relative of mine (an older generation, Archie Bunker type, still a great guy), whenever he wanted to indicate a black person's race respectfully*, said 'who has african blood'.
(*) The subtype who knows a number of blacks, talks about 'them', but also enjoys having meals with 'them' and would stand for 'them' where needed. I guess the other subtype is worse.
(**) We don't have a word for that in portuguese. While in english 'black'
is neutral, in portuguese (preto) it can be construed as derogatory. We
have fiddled with 'negro', sounds too stilted and hence is a problem. Incredible as it may seem, I've heard people refer to black people who are portuguese and have remote ancestors in eastern Africa as 'african-american'...
On 2024-05-30 12:03:08 +0000, Antonio Marques said:
Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:
African-American writer and activist.
African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in
the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She
may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
mother), but I am not Irish.
And here I was, thinking you came from Kernow.
No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more
common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
is in Devon.
Tread carefully, sir.
An unabashedly racist* relative of mine (an older generation, Archie Bunker >> type, still a great guy), whenever he wanted to indicate a black person's
race respectfully*, said 'who has african blood'.
(*) The subtype who knows a number of blacks, talks about 'them', but also >> enjoys having meals with 'them' and would stand for 'them' where needed. I >> guess the other subtype is worse.
(**) We don't have a word for that in portuguese. While in english 'black' >> is neutral, in portuguese (preto) it can be construed as derogatory. We
have fiddled with 'negro', sounds too stilted and hence is a problem.
Incredible as it may seem, I've heard people refer to black people who are >> portuguese and have remote ancestors in eastern Africa as
'african-american'...
On 30/05/24 17:34, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:
African-American writer and activist.
African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived
in the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American.
She may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make
her African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
mother), but I am not Irish.
I agree with your logic. I too have Irish ancestors, but I am not Irish.
No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more
common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
is in Devon.
I used to know María Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was Spanish, not Portuguese.
On 2024-05-30 12:03:08 +0000, Antonio Marques said:
Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:
African-American writer and activist.
African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in
the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She
may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
mother), but I am not Irish.
And here I was, thinking you came from Kernow.
No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish.
The name is much more
common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
is in Devon.
Tread carefully, sir.
An unabashedly racist* relative of mine (an older generation, Archie Bunker >> type, still a great guy), whenever he wanted to indicate a black person's
race respectfully*, said 'who has african blood'.
(*) The subtype who knows a number of blacks, talks about 'them', but also >> enjoys having meals with 'them' and would stand for 'them' where needed. I >> guess the other subtype is worse.
(**) We don't have a word for that in portuguese. While in english 'black' >> is neutral, in portuguese (preto) it can be construed as derogatory. We
have fiddled with 'negro', sounds too stilted and hence is a problem.
Incredible as it may seem, I've heard people refer to black people who are >> portuguese and have remote ancestors in eastern Africa as
'african-american'...
On 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more
common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
is in Devon.
I used to know Mar�a Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was
Spanish, not Portuguese.
Actress C�cile de France is Belgian.
Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2024-05-30 12:03:08 +0000, Antonio Marques said:
Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:
African-American writer and activist.
African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in >>>> the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She >>>> may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
mother), but I am not Irish.
And here I was, thinking you came from Kernow.
No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish.
? One would think it even less of a point of calling someone Cornish if
they were not, well, Cornish in some way.
The name is much more
common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
is in Devon.
Tread carefully, sir.
An unabashedly racist* relative of mine (an older generation, Archie Bunker >>> type, still a great guy), whenever he wanted to indicate a black person's >>> race respectfully*, said 'who has african blood'.
(*) The subtype who knows a number of blacks, talks about 'them', but also >>> enjoys having meals with 'them' and would stand for 'them' where needed. I >>> guess the other subtype is worse.
(**) We don't have a word for that in portuguese. While in english 'black' >>> is neutral, in portuguese (preto) it can be construed as derogatory. We
have fiddled with 'negro', sounds too stilted and hence is a problem.
Incredible as it may seem, I've heard people refer to black people who are >>> portuguese and have remote ancestors in eastern Africa as
'african-american'...
Ar an t-aonú lá is triochad de mí Bealtaine, scríobh Peter Moylan:
On 30/05/24 17:34, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:
African-American writer and activist.
African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived
in the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make
her African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
mother), but I am not Irish.
I agree with your logic. I too have Irish ancestors, but I am not Irish.
The closest thing to truth in this specific question is Irish law, and by Irish
law, if Athel’s mother was born in Ireland before 2005 and was entitled to Irish citizenship, Athel has been an Irish citizen from birth.
On 2024-05-30 18:47:03 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:
On 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig >>>> someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more
common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it >>>> is in Devon.
I used to know Mar�a Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was
Spanish, not Portuguese.
Actress C�cile de France is Belgian.
Indeed. I didn't think of her, but I knew she was Belgian.
On 2024-05-31 07:50:03 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:
On 2024-05-30 18:47:03 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:
On 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig >>>> someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more >>>> common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it >>>> is in Devon.
I used to know María Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was >>> Spanish, not Portuguese.
Actress Cécile de France is Belgian.
Indeed. I didn't think of her, but I knew she was Belgian.
An even more prominent example is François Hollande: he is not Dutch, but is
French.
On 2024-05-30 20:33:29 +0000, Antonio Marques said:
Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2024-05-30 12:03:08 +0000, Antonio Marques said:
Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:
African-American writer and activist.
African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in >>>>> the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She >>>>> may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
mother), but I am not Irish.
And here I was, thinking you came from Kernow.
No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish.
? One would think it even less of a point of calling someone Cornish if
they were not, well, Cornish in some way.
The name originated in Devon in the 15th century and was applied to
people who had moved from Cornwall to Devon. So, if you don't mind
going back to the 15th century then yes, I am Cornish "in some way".
Complication; Chester Nimitz was of recent German descent, but had US >nationality; his family name is of Slavic origin but designates a German.
On 2024-05-31 07:50:03 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:
On 2024-05-30 18:47:03 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:
On 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig >>>>> someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more >>>>> common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it >>>>> is in Devon.
I used to know María Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was
Spanish, not Portuguese.
Actress Cécile de France is Belgian.
Indeed. I didn't think of her, but I knew she was Belgian.
An even more prominent example is François Hollande: he is not Dutch,
but is French.
Ar an t-aonú lá is triochad de mí Bealtaine, scríobh Athel Cornish-Bowden:
On 2024-05-31 07:50:03 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:
On 2024-05-30 18:47:03 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:
On 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more >>>> common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
is in Devon.
I used to know María Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was >>> Spanish, not Portuguese.
Actress Cécile de France is Belgian.
Indeed. I didn't think of her, but I knew she was Belgian.
An even more prominent example is François Hollande: he is not Dutch, but is
French.
Ian Fleming was also British, not from Flanders.
Ian Paisley was (and Ian Óg Paisley is) not from Paisley.
George C. Scott was from West Virginia, not Scotland.
Neither the actor James Franco nor the deceased caudillo of Spain have any immediate family background in Franconia, nor even France.
Percy French, Irish songwriter, was not French by nationality.
Counterexample; Charles de Gaulle was French, but his name was Dutch.
Complication; Chester Nimitz was of recent German descent, but had US nationality; his family name is of Slavic origin but designates a German.
I’m sure I could (and we could) keep going with these!
On 2024-05-31 21:06:53 +0000, Aidan Kehoe said:
Ar an t-aonú lá is triochad de mí Bealtaine, scríobh Athel Cornish-Bowden:
On 2024-05-31 07:50:03 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:
On 2024-05-30 18:47:03 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:
On 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is much more
common in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in Somerset than it
is in Devon.
I used to know María Teresa Miras Portugal (until she died): she was
Spanish, not Portuguese.
Actress Cécile de France is Belgian.
Indeed. I didn't think of her, but I knew she was Belgian.
An even more prominent example is François Hollande: he is not Dutch, but is
French.
Ian Fleming was also British, not from Flanders.
Ian Paisley was (and Ian Óg Paisley is) not from Paisley.
George C. Scott was from West Virginia, not Scotland.
Neither the actor James Franco nor the deceased caudillo of Spain have any immediate family background in Franconia, nor even France.
Percy French, Irish songwriter, was not French by nationality.
Counterexample; Charles de Gaulle was French, but his name was Dutch.
Complication; Chester Nimitz was of recent German descent, but had US nationality; his family name is of Slavic origin but designates a German.
I’m sure I could (and we could) keep going with these!
As a possible counterexample, what about Deutsch and Deutscher, which seem to
be reasonably common surnames in Germany?
Ar an chéad lá de mí Meitheamh, scríobh Athel Cornish-Bowden:
On 2024-05-31 21:06:53 +0000, Aidan Kehoe said:
Cornish-Bowden:Ar an t-aonú lá is triochad de mí Bealtaine, scríobh Athel
On 2024-05-31 07:50:03 +0000, Athel Cornish-Bowden said:
On 2024-05-30 18:47:03 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:
point of calligOn 2024-05-30, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the
much moresomeone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish. The name is
Somerset than itcommon in Devon, just as "Devenish" is more common in
died): she wasis in Devon.
I used to know María Teresa Miras Portugal (until she
Spanish, not Portuguese.
Actress Cécile de France is Belgian.
Indeed. I didn't think of her, but I knew she was Belgian.
Dutch, but isAn even more prominent example is François Hollande: he is not
French.
Ian Fleming was also British, not from Flanders.
Ian Paisley was (and Ian Óg Paisley is) not from Paisley.
George C. Scott was from West Virginia, not Scotland.
Neither the actor James Franco nor the deceased caudillo of Spain have any
immediate family background in Franconia, nor even France.
Percy French, Irish songwriter, was not French by nationality.
Counterexample; Charles de Gaulle was French, but his name was Dutch.
Complication; Chester Nimitz was of recent German descent, but had US nationality; his family name is of Slavic origin but designates a German.
I’m sure I could (and we could) keep going with these!
As a possible counterexample, what about Deutsch and Deutscher,which seem to
be reasonably common surnames in Germany?
https://wiki.genealogy.net/Deutsch_(Familienname) comments:
»Der Name wurde vor allem in Grenzgebieten mit gemischter Bevölkerung gegeben,
später auch jüdischer Name«
I learned for the first time today of Alfred Deutsch-German, an Austrian Jew who was killed in the Holocaust.
On 2024-05-30 20:33:29 +0000, Antonio Marques said:
Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2024-05-30 12:03:08 +0000, Antonio Marques said:
Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2024-05-29 10:59:23 +0000, Ross Clark said:
African-American writer and activist.
African American? She was born in the USA of American parents, lived in >>>>> the USA, worked in the USA, and died in the USA. She was American. She >>>>> may have had some ancestors from Africa, but that doesn't make her
African. I have very recent ancestors from Ireland (including my
mother), but I am not Irish.
And here I was, thinking you came from Kernow.
No. "Cornish" is not a Cornish name: what would be the point of callig
someone Cornish if everyone around is Cornish.
? One would think it even less of a point of calling someone Cornish if
they were not, well, Cornish in some way.
The name originated in Devon in the 15th century and was applied to
people who had moved from Cornwall to Devon. So, if you don't mind
going back to the 15th century then yes, I am Cornish "in some way".
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