Christian Weisgerber wrote:
At approximately 07:08 Mountain View time (-0800), Google appears
to have thrown the switch to disconnect Google Groups from Usenet,
ending the torrent of spam postings that was flooding this group
until then.
https://groups.google.com/g/sci.lang
i think GG-Usenet (gateway) shutdown happened around 9:44 am Calif time.
PS: I started watching _Baby Bandito_ on Netflix. Chilean Spanish
turns out to be, uhm, interesting. Wikipedia has the subject
covered, of course.
On 2024-02-22, Christian Weisgerber <[email protected]> wrote:
PS: I started watching _Baby Bandito_ on Netflix. Chilean Spanish
turns out to be, uhm, interesting. Wikipedia has the subject
covered, of course.
One characteristic I don't see mentioned on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_Spanish
is the use of the definite article with a person's name:
"El Kevin es mi mejor amigo."
One characteristic I don't see mentioned on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_Spanish
is the use of the definite article with a person's name:
"El Kevin es mi mejor amigo."
Surely that’s a standard average European thing? Der Kevin ist mein bester Freund, le Kevin, c’est mon meilleur ami?
Though I do admit the lack of this was one of the things about European Spanish
that struck me as more parallel to English when I was learning the former.
On 2024-02-24, Aidan Kehoe <[email protected]> wrote:
One characteristic I don't see mentioned on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_Spanish
is the use of the definite article with a person's name:
"El Kevin es mi mejor amigo."
Surely that’s a standard average European thing? Der Kevin ist mein bester >> Freund, le Kevin, c’est mon meilleur ami?
That's considered substandard.
If you look at which European languages have this, and you go by
the standard languages, it's not that common. Portuguese comes to
mind. However, if you look at it at the regiolect/dialect level,
you are probably going to see a patchwork quilt.
Though I do admit the lack of this was one of the things about European Spanish
that struck me as more parallel to English when I was learning the former.
I'll venture the guess that it exists regionally in European Spanish,
too. ... The first random claim that pops up in a Google search
says in Catalonia and blames it on Catalan influence.
Surely that’s a standard average European thing? Der Kevin ist mein bester
Freund, le Kevin, c’est mon meilleur ami?
A couple of years studying (standard) German gave me no hint of this. I first noticed it in dialogue in one of Fassbinder's films. Is it
universal in colloquial German?
At approximately 07:08 Mountain View time (-0800), Google appears
to have thrown the switch to disconnect Google Groups from Usenet,
ending the torrent of spam postings that was flooding this group
until then.
PS: I started watching _Baby Bandito_ on Netflix. Chilean Spanish
turns out to be, uhm, interesting. Wikipedia has the subject
covered, of course.
On 2024-02-22, Christian Weisgerber <[email protected]> wrote:
PS: I started watching _Baby Bandito_ on Netflix. Chilean Spanish
turns out to be, uhm, interesting. Wikipedia has the subject
covered, of course.
One characteristic I don't see mentioned on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_Spanish
is the use of the definite article with a person's name:
"El Kevin es mi mejor amigo."
PS: I started watching _Baby Bandito_ on Netflix. Chilean Spanish
turns out to be, uhm, interesting. Wikipedia has the subject
covered, of course.
Could you expand on that? As it happens Chilean Spanish is the Spanish
that I know best, heavily influenced in recent years by Spanish Spanish.
On 2024-03-04, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
PS: I started watching _Baby Bandito_ on Netflix. Chilean Spanish
turns out to be, uhm, interesting. Wikipedia has the subject
covered, of course.
Could you expand on that? As it happens Chilean Spanish is the Spanish
that I know best, heavily influenced in recent years by Spanish Spanish.
The two salient properties are the pronunciation of -s and Chilean
voseo.
Coda /s/ is debuccalized to [h] or even deleted completely.
Considering the importance of -s for the Spanish inflectional system,
loss of -s should trigger significant compensatory changes. That
doesn't really seem to be the case (but see below), so I guess there
is a lot of [h] pronunciation left, even though I have a hard time
hearing it.
When people talk to each other, the verb forms are weird. Okay,
so it's voseo. Except, it's not. Well, it is, but not the more
familiar Rioplatense kind. Chilean comes with its own set of
voseo endings, frequently used with tú as well. In short:
-áis > -ái
-ais > -ai
-éis > -ís
-ís > -ís
That is oddly asymmetric. Is the final -s of -ís actually pronounced?
Or is this merely an orthographic convention to distinguish it from
the indefinido 1. sg. -í? The use of -ái/-ai introduces no ambiguity
and compensates for the loss of -s when compared to normal voseo
-ás/-as.
Sat, 9 Mar 2024 20:51:13 -0000 (UTC): Christian Weisgerber <[email protected]> scribeva:
On 2024-03-04, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
PS: I started watching _Baby Bandito_ on Netflix. Chilean Spanish
turns out to be, uhm, interesting. Wikipedia has the subject
covered, of course.
Could you expand on that? As it happens Chilean Spanish is the Spanish
that I know best, heavily influenced in recent years by Spanish Spanish.
The two salient properties are the pronunciation of -s and Chilean
voseo.
Coda /s/ is debuccalized to [h] or even deleted completely.
That's not typical of Chile. It also happens in Argentinian, Cuban and Andalusian Spanish. And propably a lot of other too.
Athel cbConsidering the importance of -s for the Spanish inflectional system,
loss of -s should trigger significant compensatory changes. That
doesn't really seem to be the case (but see below), so I guess there
is a lot of [h] pronunciation left, even though I have a hard time
hearing it.--
On 2024-03-04, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
PS: I started watching _Baby Bandito_ on Netflix. Chilean Spanish
turns out to be, uhm, interesting. Wikipedia has the subject
covered, of course.
Could you expand on that? As it happens Chilean Spanish is the Spanish
that I know best, heavily influenced in recent years by Spanish Spanish.
The two salient properties are the pronunciation of -s and Chilean
voseo.
Coda /s/ is debuccalized to [h] or even deleted completely.
Considering the importance of -s for the Spanish inflectional system,
loss of -s should trigger significant compensatory changes. That
doesn't really seem to be the case (but see below), so I guess there
is a lot of [h] pronunciation left, even though I have a hard time
hearing it.
When people talk to each other, the verb forms are weird. Okay,
so it's voseo. Except, it's not. Well, it is, but not the more
familiar Rioplatense kind. Chilean comes with its own set of
voseo endings, frequently used with tú as well. In short:
-áis > -ái
-ais > -ai
-éis > -ís
-ís > -ís
That is oddly asymmetric. Is the final -s of -ís actually pronounced?
Or is this merely an orthographic convention to distinguish it from
the indefinido 1. sg. -í? The use of -ái/-ai introduces no ambiguity
and compensates for the loss of -s when compared to normal voseo
-ás/-as.
On 2024-03-10, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
I've never noticed any sort of voseo in any of the sort of people I
talk to in Chile (or at home for that matter).
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espa%C3%B1ol_chileno#Voseo
On 2024-03-10, Ruud Harmsen <[email protected]> wrote:
Coda /s/ is debuccalized to [h] or even deleted completely.
That's not typical of Chile. It also happens in Argentinian, Cuban and
Andalusian Spanish. And propably a lot of other too.
I haven't noticed it before to this degree in media Spanish.
(I still need to watch something from Argentinia.)
Of course media portrayals are to be taken with a grain of salt and
may not be representative of how people actually speak.
I've never noticed any sort of voseo in any of the sort of people I
talk to in Chile (or at home for that matter).
Coda /s/ is debuccalized to [h] or even deleted completely.
That's not typical of Chile. It also happens in Argentinian, Cuban and Andalusian Spanish. And propably a lot of other too.
On 2024-03-10, Ruud Harmsen <[email protected]> wrote:
Coda /s/ is debuccalized to [h] or even deleted completely.
That's not typical of Chile. It also happens in Argentinian, Cuban and
Andalusian Spanish. And propably a lot of other too.
I haven't noticed it before to this degree in media Spanish.
(I still need to watch something from Argentinia.)
Of course media portrayals are to be taken with a grain of salt and
may not be representative of how people actually speak.
On 2024-03-10 14:02:51 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:
On 2024-03-10, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
I've never noticed any sort of voseo in any of the sort of people I
talk to in Chile (or at home for that matter).
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espa%C3%B1ol_chileno#Voseo
No doubt the autors of the article know more than I do, and take
account of a broader range of people than those I know, so I'll just
repeat: I've never heard "vos" in Chile --
a big contrast with
Montevideo, say, where one can hardly spend 30 minutes without hearing
"vos".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrG5ernfF88
Lyrics are here, for example: >https://lyricstranslate.com/en/balada-para-un-loco-ballad-crazy.html
I know them only from old-fashioned Argentinian Spanish, in tango
songs, where there was also literally no vos, due to Spanish being
pro-drop, but I did notice "Que falta que me hacés", which has puzzled
me for years, thinking it should be "haces", but it clearly isn't;
On 2024-03-10, Athel Cornish-Bowden <[email protected]> wrote:
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espa%C3%B1ol_chileno#Voseo
No doubt the autors of the article know more than I do, and take
account of a broader range of people than those I know,
FWIW, the description also matches up well with the portroyal
in _Baby Bandito_.
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espa%C3%B1ol_chileno#Voseo
No doubt the autors of the article know more than I do, and take
account of a broader range of people than those I know,
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 715 |
| Nodes: | 16 (3 / 13) |
| Uptime: | 156:17:49 |
| Calls: | 12,093 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 15,000 |
| Messages: | 6,517,729 |