Bill Sloman <[email protected]> wrote:

[...]

It's not any kind of exact repeat. Chamberlain was a serious politician
and Trump isn't.

It's not an exact repeat but the fundamentals are similar and the result
will be similar.

This is the similarity:

A ruthless dictator has been allowed to get away with annexing one
region, now he is invading another country; it will go on and on until
someone has the guts to stand up to him. Appeasement and hoping he will
honour any kind of agreement simply doesn't work.

There's no evidence that Chamberlain liked Hitler, and
Britain was not prepared for any kind of war with Germany in 1938.

Trump seems to like Putin, and seems to think that he can trust him.

I'm not sure that is true. Trump has no concept of trust and he only
appears to like someone for what they can do for him, while they can do
it.

Chamberlain took his alliances seriously, and eventually went to war
with Hitler. Trump clearly couldn't can't care less about the Ukraine, probably because Zelensky didn't give Trump what he wanted back in 2019
when his effort to extort a fake prosecution of the Biden's backfired
with a bid for the impeachment of Trump.

This is the difference:

Chamberlain was an educated, thruthful and honorable man with absolute integrity, sacrificing his own personal career for the good of his
country and behaving correctly in the face of lies, deceit and
aggression. He may have appeared naive to some people but he bought
Europe the time to start re-arming.

Trump is an ignorant thug with no concept of honour or integrity. He
puts himself above everything else and is behaving disgracefully using
the same tactics of deceit, lies and aggression as Putin. As an ally,
he could have given Europe notice that they would have needed to re-arm
but he has withdrawn support at a moment's notice, giving Putin the best possible chance of overpowering Ukraine and then spreading his poison to
the next European country. Trump is no longer behaving like an ally, he
is behaving like a pawn of Putin and an enemy of Europe.

Putin seems to be delighted at this but may come ito regret it in the
longer term if Trump starts to get 'awkward'. The Americans have a fine tradition of disposing of their presidents but this may be the first
time a Russian has saved them the bother.

It will happen again and we had better prepare for it while
we still have a little time left.

Trump does seem to be perfectly capable of screwing up on a large scale,
but the beginning of WW2 probably isn't an example of his style of incompetence. His mishandling of the US response to the Covid-19
pandemic may be a more relevant example
.

Just to refresh your memory:

"This morning I had another talk with the German Chancellor, Herr
Hitler, and here is the paper which bears his name upon it as well as
mine" ... "peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time".
Neville Chamberlain - 30 September 1938

Trump doesn't do honour. I doubt if he knows what the word means.

"Peace at all costs" appears to be his motto - as long as the cost in
territory and lives falls on someone else.

"This morning the British Ambassador in Berlin handed the German
Government a final Note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 O'clock that they were prepared at once to withdraw their troops from Poland a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now
that no such undertaking has been received and that consequently this country is at war with Germany."
Neville Chamberlain - 3 September 1939

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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john larkin <jlArbor.com> wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 16:35:20 +0000, [email protected]d
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

Bill Sloman <[email protected]> wrote:

[...]

It's not any kind of exact repeat. Chamberlain was a serious politician
and Trump isn't.

It's not an exact repeat but the fundamentals are similar and the result >will be similar.

This is the similarity:

A ruthless dictator has been allowed to get away with annexing one
region, now he is invading another country; it will go on and on until >someone has the guts to stand up to him. Appeasement and hoping he will >honour any kind of agreement simply doesn't work.

There's no evidence that Chamberlain liked Hitler, and
Britain was not prepared for any kind of war with Germany in 1938.

Trump seems to like Putin, and seems to think that he can trust him.

I'm not sure that is true. Trump has no concept of trust and he only >appears to like someone for what they can do for him, while they can do
it.

Chamberlain took his alliances seriously, and eventually went to war
with Hitler. Trump clearly couldn't can't care less about the Ukraine,
probably because Zelensky didn't give Trump what he wanted back in 2019
when his effort to extort a fake prosecution of the Biden's backfired
with a bid for the impeachment of Trump.

This is the difference:

Chamberlain was an educated, thruthful and honorable man with absolute >integrity, sacrificing his own personal career for the good of his
country and behaving correctly in the face of lies, deceit and
aggression. He may have appeared naive to some people but he bought
Europe the time to start re-arming.

And about 50 million people died.

...many in the gas chambers of concentration camps.


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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On 14/03/2025 3:49 am, john larkin wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 16:35:20 +0000, [email protected]d
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

Bill Sloman <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>

And about 50 million people died.

Putin and Trump have the tools to kill many more, and quite quickly.

In any rational world both would be locked away in some institution for
the criminally insane, much as Napoleon was in his declining years.

Killing them would be quicker and safer, but would leave a kind of
social vaccuum which would suck in people who were even worse (though
probably even less competent).

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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On 14/03/2025 4:35 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

john larkin <jlArbor.com> wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 16:35:20 +0000, [email protected]d
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

Bill Sloman <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>

And about 50 million people died.

...many in the gas chambers of concentration camps.

Trump's trick of dumping a bunch of illegal immigrants into Guantánamo
Bay suggests that he has the same kind of mind-set.

He did ship them on to Venezuela as soon as he could, but if the
Venezuelan regime hadn't accepted them he might have eventually got
impatient. He hasn't got a long attention span, as became obvious during
the Covid-19 pandemic.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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Bill Sloman <[email protected]> wrote:

On 14/03/2025 3:49 am, john larkin wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 16:35:20 +0000, [email protected]d
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

Bill Sloman <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>

And about 50 million people died.

Putin and Trump have the tools to kill many more, and quite quickly.

In any rational world both would be locked away in some institution for
the criminally insane, much as Napoleon was in his declining years.

Killing them would be quicker and safer, but would leave a kind of
social vaccuum which would suck in people who were even worse (though probably even less competent).

The very real danger is that they ay be more competent - or at least
better informed.


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 14/03/2025 8:01 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

Bill Sloman <[email protected]> wrote:

On 14/03/2025 3:49 am, john larkin wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 16:35:20 +0000, [email protected]d
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

Bill Sloman <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>

And about 50 million people died.

Putin and Trump have the tools to kill many more, and quite quickly.

In any rational world both would be locked away in some institution for
the criminally insane, much as Napoleon was in his declining years.

Killing them would be quicker and safer, but would leave a kind of
social vaccuum which would suck in people who were even worse (though
probably even less competent).

The very real danger is that they may be more competent - or at least
better informed.

Being better informed is a symptom of better mental health. Staying as ill-informed as Putin and Trump seem to have managed depends on
psychological mechanisms that actively reject more accurate - but less emotionally satisfying - information. Cursitor Doom is a more local example.

Being competent does depends on getting and staying well-informed, at
least in the areas where you need to exhibit competence.

Trump's performance during the Covid-19 pandemic wasn't competent
because he couldn't be bothered to listen to people who could tell what
was actually going on - they didn't flatter him enthusiastically enough,
which would have involved appearing to take his silly ideas seriously.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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