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  • Re: New Pico2

    From Single Stage to Orbit@21:1/5 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Mon Aug 12 13:56:22 2024
    On Mon, 2024-08-12 at 12:04 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    The days of fitting an instruction set on a page or two are long
    gone.

    The RISCV instruction set for the cores in the Pico is just 137. It's
    all in a table on one page in the rp2350 datasheet.
    --
    Tactical Nuclear Kittens

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  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Single Stage to Orbit on Mon Aug 12 08:37:03 2024
    On 8/12/2024 5:56 AM, Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
    On Mon, 2024-08-12 at 12:04 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    The days of fitting an instruction set on a page or two are long
    gone.

    The RISCV instruction set for the cores in the Pico is just 137. It's
    all in a table on one page in the rp2350 datasheet.

    SoC/MCU datasheets have been "tomes" for more than a decade. It's
    not the details of the instruction set that require the most
    paper/pages but, rather, the details of all of the I/Os and
    particulars of the programming model.

    E.g., the datasheet for the A5 core that I'm using is almost 2000
    pages (~1900). And, that doesn't count the Architecture Reference
    Manual (2700 pp), details of the FPU, MMU, secure boot, debug
    interface (300 pp), etc. Or, any of the tools available to
    support hardware/software development!

    They aren't "trivial components" that can be characterized in
    a dozen pages of text, tables and graphs like MPUs of days gone by.

    [At least we've moved past the days of needing hundreds of pages to
    explain the *notion* of a microprocessor to the Reader!]

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  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Theo on Mon Aug 12 10:06:42 2024
    On 8/12/2024 9:23 AM, Theo wrote:
    These days, when you've got a 1K+ page manual you know it's the actual manual. If it's 10 pages it's just a 'product brief' that shows some basic

    It's often 10 pages just to list (TABULATE!) the pins on the device.

    information about the chip but not nearly enough to program it (contact the OEM and they'll make you sign an NDA for the actual details, and maybe only if you're going to buy a million units).

    Usually, NDA features are associated with higher volume buys (e.g., secure boot). But, an average joe should be able to buy/design-in most of these devices and have a functional product from just the publicly available literature.

    What's annoying is absence of a "click here to get EVERYTHING you need"...

    Most of the time you can ignore huge chunks of the manual - if you never use the CAN bus transceiver, skip that section. But better to have the information there if you need it.

    It's usually worth familiarizing yourself with the content, at least.
    You don't want to discover some detail that affects some other aspect
    of your design buried in it. Or, belatedly realize that some part
    of the device could have satisfied one of your needs.

    Unfortunately, moving to a different device (series, manufacturer)
    often means much of the information from the initial device is
    just noise that MIGHT help you understand the new device... or,
    might HINDER your understanding of it! ("But, I thought that..."
    "No, that's the OTHER device!")

    Sadly, it seems (esp with ARM) that these documents are just
    pasted together with little attention to the OTHER "sections"
    that may -- or may NOT! -- be present in a particular manufacturer's
    device (as most of the source material comes from ARM and you have
    to rely on your vendor to have added appropriate caveats IN THE
    PLACES YOU ARE LIKELY TO CHECK.

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Tue Aug 13 06:03:50 2024
    On a sunny day (Mon, 12 Aug 2024 16:42:54 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs <[email protected]> wrote in <v9de2e$3cqaf$[email protected]>:

    Theo <[email protected]> wrote:
    In comp.sys.raspberry-pi Ahem A Rivet's Shot <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 14:07:59 -0700
    John Larkin <[email protected]> wrote:

    The RP2350 data sheet is 1347 pages!

    The days of fitting an instruction set on a page or two are long
    gone.

    These days, when you've got a 1K+ page manual you know it's the actual
    manual. If it's 10 pages it's just a 'product brief' that shows some basic >> information about the chip but not nearly enough to program it (contact the >> OEM and they'll make you sign an NDA for the actual details, and maybe only >> if you're going to buy a million units).

    Most of the time you can ignore huge chunks of the manual - if you never use >> the CAN bus transceiver, skip that section. But better to have the
    information there if you need it.

    Theo


    As long as the silicon errata sheet isn’t 1000 pages!

    Yes, and then going through all the code you wrote...
    Did I use that ? Ah, worked around it!

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