Hi All,

There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes
(that are highly scented) that are not meant to
wash out. They toxic substances are very difficult
on folks with allergies, especially asthma. They
don't wash out.

I am a computer consultant. I pick these chemicals
up when I sit in other people's chairs, or just by
entering a room where someone uses these chemicals.
Also, grocery shopping. I DO NOT use scented
products around my house. The worst is chairs though.

I call these chemicals "toxic" as I have had to watch
members of my family gasping in terror trying to breath.
Also the MSDS sheets when you can find them. Here is an
example of such a toxic chemical:

https://tide.com/en-us/shop/type/laundry-booster/downy-unstopables-scent-booster-tide-original-scent
"In wash scent beads"

A quick search of the patent office will also show
you several of them. Somewhere that I do not
remember, I read that these toxic substances
are alcohol soluble and won't wash out in water.
Am I correct?

Anyway, if alcohol soluble, how do you get them out?

First though a guess on what is happening. Most
folks without skin irritations to detergents seldom
rise all the soap out of their cloths. If these
chemicals are wax based, they may "melt" into the fibers
in the dryer or the hot water of the washer.

What DOES NOT work on old and new cloths:
-- 7th Generation cloth washing detergent
-- 7th Generation Dish detergent
-- Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda)
-- Sodium Carbonate (washing soda)
-- Oxi/Oxo (Sodium Carbonate & Sodium Percarbonate)
-- White Vinegar
-- Extremely hot water
-- EnviroKlenz
-- Swearing

What sort-of works on old cloths :
-- Sodium Percarbonate

BUTTTTTT it takes extremely hot water, tons of
Sodium Percarbonate, and T-E-N washings.

ANDDDDDDD it fills the house with toxic perfumes
that almost makes the house uninhabitable to
those with breathing issues


New cloths (fabric finishes):
-- Sodium Percarbonate

AND it takes two to four washings a week F-O-R
A Y-E-A-R !!!! The cloths are 1/2 worn out
before you an use them. "Ecotex" fabrics
clean up in 1/2 the time.

ANDDDDDDD it also fills the house with toxic perfumes
that almost makes the house uninhabitable to
those with breathing issues

Any other ideas one way other the other?

Many thanks,
-T

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Dear T:

On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 5:45:15 PM UTC-7, T wrote:
...

There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes
(that are highly scented) that are not meant to
wash out. They toxic substances are very difficult
on folks with allergies, especially asthma. They
don't wash out.

...

I am a computer consultant. I pick these chemicals
up when I sit in other people's chairs, or just by
entering a room where someone uses these chemicals.
Also, grocery shopping. I DO NOT use scented
products around my house. The worst is chairs though.

You aren't going to "wash" a chair. For a chair, just use Tyvek or a plastic sheet, to minimize air exchange.

If you hadn't said "asthma", I would have suggested an ozone generator, say 1 gm/hr. Ozone directly attacks aromatics (heat, humidity, and visible light helps), but it also "blinds" the nose (and triggers asthmatics). More than likely, you will have to
compress and decompress the chair's cushions a few times, to exchange ozone into the material / foam. Hot vinegar fumes might do as well, and do less damage.

I have seen phenomenal results bagging items, pulling all the vacuum a shop vac can pull, let fresh air into the bag, and repeat as necessary. The "fresh air" could have different compounds added, since they will be pulled down into the materials that
are at lower pressures.

Good luck.

David A. Smith

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On 11/18/21 06:06, dlzc wrote:

Dear T:

On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 5:45:15 PM UTC-7, T wrote:
...

There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes
(that are highly scented) that are not meant to
wash out. They toxic substances are very difficult
on folks with allergies, especially asthma. They
don't wash out.

...

I am a computer consultant. I pick these chemicals
up when I sit in other people's chairs, or just by
entering a room where someone uses these chemicals.
Also, grocery shopping. I DO NOT use scented
products around my house. The worst is chairs though.

You aren't going to "wash" a chair. For a chair, just use Tyvek or a plastic sheet, to minimize air exchange.

If you hadn't said "asthma", I would have suggested an ozone generator, say 1 gm/hr. Ozone directly attacks aromatics (heat, humidity, and visible light helps), but it also "blinds" the nose (and triggers asthmatics). More than likely, you will have

to compress and decompress the chair's cushions a few times, to exchange ozone into the material / foam. Hot vinegar fumes might do as well, and do less damage.

I have seen phenomenal results bagging items, pulling all the vacuum a shop vac can pull, let fresh air into the bag, and repeat as necessary. The "fresh air" could have different compounds added, since they will be pulled down into the materials that

are at lower pressures.

Good luck.

David A. Smith

I find aluminum foil on a chair very effective, except
it insults the customer and/or they think you are too
weird to ever call back, so ...

I have covered shelves in our laundry room with foil
kill the out gassing from the previous owner's
laundry perfumes.

We have had no luck with vinegar. Vinegar use to work
wonders until these new persistent perfumes came out.

Are they alcohol soluble? If so, how would you remove
them. How about fat and wax soluble? You would think
hot water and detergent would whack them ?? Then
there are the nanoparticles.

In the past, I have read some of the patents and scents
are triggered by body heat. They do comes off in hot
water, but they won't stop coming off. It is like
I have discovered perpetual motion.

You mentioned vacuum?

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Dear T:

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 10:56:01 AM UTC-7, T wrote:
...

We have had no luck with vinegar. Vinegar use to work
wonders until these new persistent perfumes came out.

It is just generally safer than ozone, and works to some extent to remove smoker's smell from a car.

Are they alcohol soluble? If so, how would you remove
them. How about fat and wax soluble? You would think
hot water and detergent would whack them ?? Then
there are the nanoparticles.

These are compounds targeted / selected to be the cheapest, and most noticeable to humans.

In the past, I have read some of the patents and scents
are triggered by body heat. They do comes off in hot
water, but they won't stop coming off. It is like
I have discovered perpetual motion.

You mentioned vacuum?

These compounds have a vapor pressure. Get the heat up, and pull a vacuum, and you "boil" them off faster. They will be coming out in the exhaust stream of the shop vac, so make sure it is sitting "outside".

David A. Smith

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On 11/19/21 05:42, dlzc wrote:

Dear T:

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 10:56:01 AM UTC-7, T wrote:
...

We have had no luck with vinegar. Vinegar use to work
wonders until these new persistent perfumes came out.

It is just generally safer than ozone, and works to some extent to remove smoker's smell from a car.

Are they alcohol soluble? If so, how would you remove
them. How about fat and wax soluble? You would think
hot water and detergent would whack them ?? Then
there are the nanoparticles.

These are compounds targeted / selected to be the cheapest, and most noticeable to humans.

In the past, I have read some of the patents and scents
are triggered by body heat. They do comes off in hot
water, but they won't stop coming off. It is like
I have discovered perpetual motion.

You mentioned vacuum?

These compounds have a vapor pressure. Get the heat up, and pull a vacuum, and you "boil" them off faster. They will be coming out in the exhaust stream of the shop vac, so make sure it is sitting "outside".

David A. Smith

Thank you!

What do you think of this?

https://www.amazon.com/Bestauto-Gallon-Chamber-Stainless-Degassing/dp/B07TQLLVNC

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Dear T:

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 12:51:07 PM UTC-7, T wrote:
...

What do you think of this?

https://www.amazon.com/Bestauto-Gallon-Chamber-Stainless-Degassing/dp/B07TQLLVNC

Won't hold an (intact) office chair!

Looks good. Especially good if you can but a "coffee cup warmer" under the pot. Remember, as the various vapors leave, the temperature drops...

David A. Smith

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On 11/29/21 08:00, dlzc wrote:

Dear T:

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 12:51:07 PM UTC-7, T wrote:
...

What do you think of this?

https://www.amazon.com/Bestauto-Gallon-Chamber-Stainless-Degassing/dp/B07TQLLVNC

Won't hold an (intact) office chair!

Looks good. Especially good if you can but a "coffee cup warmer" under the pot. Remember, as the various vapors leave, the temperature drops...

PV = nRT

David A. Smith

Thank you!

It has top be better that the months of soaking I
currently have to do! One of the soaks is a bacteria
solution!

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Dear T:

On Monday, November 29, 2021 at 2:03:39 PM UTC-7, T wrote:

On 11/29/21 08:00, dlzc wrote:

Looks good. Especially good if you can but a "coffee cup warmer"
under the pot. Remember, as the various vapors leave, the
temperature drops...

PV = nRT

More like "latent heat of vaporization", especially for water vapor. You don't care about the gas removed, and what its condition is, only that it be vented outside. But you need to be sure the "treated mass" is kept warm, to keep the offgassing rate
up.

Now you need to consider what you allow back in as you relieve the vacuum. I'd recommend a low output ozone generator, such as you might bubble into a glass of water. But not required, could be the headspace of a vinegar bottle, if you can stand that
smell any better.

It has top be better that the months of soaking I
currently have to do! One of the soaks is a bacteria
solution!

Consider that you have a sponge, with soap in it. You want to get "all" the soap out. If you just squeeze it, you'll get a lot out. But you will get more out, and faster, if you allow fresh water in, and repeat a few times. Same with this setup.

David A. Smith

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