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  • The Moon's Southern orbital region

    From Gerald Kelleher@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 23 09:39:24 2023
    The Moon does not rotate hence has no South Pole.

    The explanation was given here enough times not to have to repeat it other than Kepler, like all other astronomers, interpreted the Moon's monthly motion correctly while Newton misread Kepler's Somnium as asserting a non-existent rotation.

    “The Sun and the Earth rotate on their own axes…The purpose of this
    motion is to confer motion on the planets located around them; on the
    six primary planets in the case of the Sun, and on the Moon in the case
    of the Earth.On the other hand, the Moon does not rotate on the axis of
    its own body, as its spots prove ” Kepler

    People who have come under the extended influence of a subculture find common sense to be unbearable.

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  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to Gerald Kelleher on Wed Aug 23 20:42:05 2023
    On 2023-08-23 16:39:24 +0000, Gerald Kelleher said:

    The Moon does not rotate hence has no South Pole.

    The South Pole is one of the places where no star is seen to raise or set.

    Mikko

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  • From Gerald Kelleher@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 23 11:44:33 2023
    The slightest touch of common sense is unbearable for those buried deep in a subculture so when demonstrated the Earth turns two different ways to the Sun, that insight is lost to them and others who know no better.

    https://www.usap.gov/videoclipsandmaps/spwebcam.cfm

    The approaching single sunrise at the South Pole is an affirmation of the third motion (second rotation) of Copernicus even though that great man couldn't express it with his working Ptolemaic framework.

    Observers should be content with the Moon's Southern Polar region rather than the conceptual misnomer of South Pole.

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  • From Quadibloc@21:1/5 to Gerald Kelleher on Wed Aug 23 12:06:00 2023
    On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:39:27 AM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
    The Moon does not rotate hence has no South Pole.

    The Moon rotates once every 27.322 days. This rotational period matches its sidereal orbital period, hence the Moon always keeps one face turned to
    the Earth.

    However, the Moon has an inclined orbit, and that orbit is an ellipse. The Moon's rotation, on the other hand, is basically uniform. Therefore, during the course of a lunar orbit, the orbit will be slightly ahead or behind the Moon's rotation, and so the Moon in the sky exhibits _libration in longitude_ which allows slightly more than half of the Moon to be seen from Earth.

    I mean, give it up already. Newton co-invented calculus, and you don't even understand calculus, claiming it to be mumbo-jumbo. So when you claim
    to be smarter than him, it can't be taken seriously.

    At least by those of us who have been thoroughly indoctrinated into the mumbo-jumbo known as Calculus, and actually believe it can be used to
    work out the answers to problems in science and engineering.

    John Savard

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  • From Chris L Peterson@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Aug 23 12:26:23 2023
    On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:39:24 -0700 (PDT), Gerald Kelleher <[email protected]> wrote:

    The Moon does not rotate hence has no South Pole.

    And yet... a Focault pendulum on the moon will still oscillate. The
    stars and Sun will rise and set.

    But... as you live in the Middle Ages intellectually, I guess you just
    view this as proof that it is the Universe revolving, not us.

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  • From palsing@21:1/5 to Gerald Kelleher on Wed Aug 23 19:23:45 2023
    On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:39:27 AM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
    The Moon does not rotate hence has no South Pole.

    Gerald, I can assure you that were you to reside on the "far" side of the moon, you would see the Sun rise and set every 27+ days. You would have no idea that the Earth even existed. Would you not assume that the moon rotated once every 27+ days? Of
    course, you would!

    EVERYTHING rotates with respect to something, and this includes the moon!

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  • From Gerald Kelleher@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 24 00:04:51 2023
    Orbital motion is not rotation so the day/night cycle over the course of the Moon's circuit of the Earth is a response to orbital motion alone.

    Only interested in the Earth's second rotation (third motion) these days as that rotation is a function of the orbital motion of the Earth and why the North/South Poles have a single day/night cycle each year while lower latitudes have both the 24 hour
    day/night cycle and when combined with the orbital cycle, the seasons result.

    As long as observers believe in a rotating Moon, they will certainly be unable to resolve an issue that occupied Copernicus pre-De Revolutionibus and Galileo as a second rotation-

    "From what I see, did not understand very well- was a certain experiment which I exhibited to some gentlemen there at Rome, and perhaps at the very house of Your Excellency, in partial explanation and partial refutation of the "third motion" attributed
    by Copernicus to the earth. This extra rotation, opposite in direction to all other celestial motions, appeared to many a most improbable thing, and one that upset the whole Copernican system. . . . What I said was designed to remove a difficulty
    attributed to the Copernican system, and I later added that anyone who would reflect upon the matter more carefully would see that Copernicus had spoken falsely when he attributed his "third motion" to the earth since this would not be a motion at all,
    but a kind of rest." Galileo, The Assayer

    The Southern orbital region of the Moon is a more pleasant and accurate description of that geological area and far more productive for future research.

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  • From palsing@21:1/5 to Gerald Kelleher on Thu Aug 24 08:37:57 2023
    On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 12:04:53 AM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
    Orbital motion is not rotation so the day/night cycle over the course of the Moon's circuit of the Earth is a response to orbital motion alone.

    Only interested in the Earth's second rotation (third motion) these days as that rotation is a function of the orbital motion of the Earth and why the North/South Poles have a single day/night cycle each year while lower latitudes have both the 24 hour
    day/night cycle and when combined with the orbital cycle, the seasons result.

    As long as observers believe in a rotating Moon, they will certainly be unable to resolve an issue that occupied Copernicus pre-De Revolutionibus and Galileo as a second rotation-

    "From what I see, did not understand very well- was a certain experiment which I exhibited to some gentlemen there at Rome, and perhaps at the very house of Your Excellency, in partial explanation and partial refutation of the "third motion" attributed
    by Copernicus to the earth. This extra rotation, opposite in direction to all other celestial motions, appeared to many a most improbable thing, and one that upset the whole Copernican system. . . . What I said was designed to remove a difficulty
    attributed to the Copernican system, and I later added that anyone who would reflect upon the matter more carefully would see that Copernicus had spoken falsely when he attributed his "third motion" to the earth since this would not be a motion at all,
    but a kind of rest." Galileo, The Assayer

    The Southern orbital region of the Moon is a more pleasant and accurate description of that geological area and far more productive for future research.

    If the Earth were to magically disappear the moon would happily continue to orbit the Sun and would still experience sunrise and sunset... since it is rotating about its axis... and you need to deal with it, Gerald, because it happens to be the case!

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  • From Gerald Kelleher@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 24 11:34:36 2023
    I only deal with these issues at the level of Copernicus and Galileo, two people and their reputations who have been thrashed by more recent theorists and their misadventures.

    "The third movement is the declination movement. For the axis of daily rotation is not parallel to the axis of the great circle but is inclined to it by such a part of the circumference, which in our time is almost 23 and a half degrees. Thus the centre
    of the Earth always remains in the plane of the ecliptic, i.e. on the circumference of a great circle, and its poles revolve, drawing small circles on both sides around the centres equidistant from the axis of the great circle. This movement, too, takes
    place over a period of almost a year and is almost equal to the revolution of the great wheel" Copernicus, Commentariolus.

    I wish those who just know a lot about magnification equipment would just stick to enjoying what their equipment can do like those people who know everything about cars but never notice the countryside they drive through.

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  • From palsing@21:1/5 to Gerald Kelleher on Thu Aug 24 13:58:40 2023
    On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:34:39 AM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher wrote:

    I only deal with these issues at the level of Copernicus and Galileo...

    If either of those two fine fellows had been born a century or 2 later than their current birthdates they would gladly tell you that the moon rotates on its axis!

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  • From Quadibloc@21:1/5 to Gerald Kelleher on Thu Aug 24 15:38:42 2023
    On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 1:04:53 AM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
    far more productive for future research.

    Look around you. Suspension bridges. Airplanes. Skyscrapers. Automobiles. Computers.

    Newton, empiricism, calculus... they have been productive beyond all measure. Discarding them for
    the kind of subjectivity you advocate would not be, and so a statement like this is beyond
    ludicrous.

    John Savard

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  • From Gerald Kelleher@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 26 01:40:17 2023
    People who cannot firm the Moon's Southern and Northern orbital regions and that the Moon was a forward side to its orbital motion and a trailing side like a car travelling around a traffic circle cannot handle the observational certainty that our planet
    has two surface rotations to the Sun and divisor. It can be seen from the time-lapse of Uranus as an external supporting confirmation-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=612gSZsplpE

    The phases and day/night cycle on the Moon as it runs a circuit of the Earth are a result of its orbital motion alone and are appreciated as such.

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