• longitudinal arch of human foot

    From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 13 13:10:44 2023
    Arched footprints preserve the motions of fossil hominin feet
    Kevin G Hatala, Stephen M Gatesy & Peter L Falkingham 2023
    Nature Ecology & Evolution 7:32-41

    The longitudinal arch of the human foot is viewed as a pivotal adaptation for BP walking & running.
    Fossil footprints from Laetoli-Tanzania & Ileret-Kenya are believed to provide direct evidence of longitudinally arched feet in hominins from the Plio- & Pleistocene resp.
    We studied the dynamics of track-fm: biplanar X-ray, 3Dl animation & discrete element particle simulation.
    Here, we demonstrate:
    longitudinally arched footprints are false indicators of foot anatomy,
    instead they are generated through a specific pattern of foot kinematics, characteristic of human walking.
    Analyses of fossil hominin tracks from Laetoli show only partial evidence of this walking style: similar heel-strike, but different pattern of propulsion.
    The earliest known evidence for fully modern human-like BP kinematics comes from the early Pleistocene Ileret tracks,
    these were presumably made by members of the genus Homo.
    This result
    - signals important differences in the foot kinematics recorded at Laetoli & Ileret,
    - underscores an emerging picture of locomotor diversity within the hominin clade.

    ____

    Yes, of course, human walking is very special.
    I tried to send a comment, something like this:
    - The earliest Hominoidea already had some form of BPity, google "aquarboreal".
    - The use of the word "hominin" presupposes australopiths as closer relatives of Homo than of Pan or Gorilla (wrong IMO, e.g. my Hum.Evol.papers 1994 & 1996).
    - The Miocene footprints of Trachilos (Medit.Sea-coast) were already BP.
    - Hylobatids are (still?) mostly vertical.
    - Cursorial mammals don't have longitudinal foot arches AFAIK, but are unguli- or digitigrade.
    - There's no evidence of correlation of BPity with longitudinal arches in other tetrapods AFAIK.

    How our foot-arches evolved is not so difficult to understand IMO, e.g.
    - wading-climbing Mio-Pliocene Hominoidea, google “aquarboreal”
    - wading-diving early-Pleistocene Homo, e.g. H.erectus, google “pachyosteosclerosis”
    - wading-walking late-Pleistocene Homo, google “gondwanatalks Verhaegen Bonne”

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  • From JTEM is so reasonable@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jul 14 19:17:40 2023
    [email protected] wrote:

    Arched footprints preserve the motions of fossil hominin feet
    Kevin G Hatala, Stephen M Gatesy & Peter L Falkingham 2023
    Nature Ecology & Evolution 7:32-41

    I'm going to repeat what I said elsewhere, because this is so important:

    People don't seem to be "Getting" this but, there is no real evidence for
    this arch until AFTER the chromosome fusion... believed to have
    happened less than 2 million years ago.

    Now you have to actually know a little something about the good
    Doctor's position to grasp what this means. But he makes a great
    deal out of erectus and the evidence for diving.

    Maybe we can say "Swimming," because underwater swimming is
    still swimming.

    The good Doctor isn't speculating here, he's pointing to the physical
    evidence for this. He's explaining the physical evidence: "Their
    remains look this way because they were diving."

    AND THIS he's seeing in finds that existed AFTER the chromosome
    fusion.

    I'm the one making the big deal about the chromosome fusion, not
    him. That's what I do. I steal things from different people and merge
    them, because the fact that they can and do merge means something.

    So what it looks like to me is that our ancestors were waterside.They
    lived along the shore. They exploited the sea. The consumed
    resources and then moved on. And as they did this, at various points
    in time (and places) groups branched off, pushed inland and adapted.
    But they would have remained co fertile for quite some time.

    The waterside group would have been moderating the adaptations,
    the evolution of the inland groups. The inland groups would have been
    moderating the evolution of the waterside group...

    AFTER THE CHROMOSOME FUSION, all this interbreeding, this
    moderation of the evolution just kind of stopped. The chromosome
    fusion was a barrier to interbreeding. This allowed the waterside group
    to better adapt to the water, as they were no longer being influenced
    by the inland populations. AND IT WAS AT THIS POINT where the arch
    seems to pop into evidence.

    Too complicated for savanna mouth breathers?

    No doubt.

    But consider also that bipedalism is VASTLY older than is Homo, YES
    amongst our ancestors. Starting with us, drawing a line backwards
    though all our potential ancestors, most of the history of bipedalism
    in our line was already over before Homo arose. So this arch can't be associated with bipedalism. It wasn't MILLIONS OF YEARS OF
    EVOLUTION that produced this arch. It was, at most, a few hundred
    thousand years following the chromosome fusion. Which strongly
    suggests environment as the factor. We stopped being influenced by
    the more primitive inland groups, we adapted more fully to waterside..

    It's all actually pretty brilliant. So brilliant that it has been lost entirely on every last opponent to Aquatic Ape. Not one has read the good
    Doctor's words and grasped their significance.

    The collective minds of Out of Africa purists across at least three
    groups that I follow, and never once has one grasped a word of this
    stuff.

    Congratulations.





    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/722829763403743232

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 15 06:56:27 2023
    Op zaterdag 15 juli 2023 om 04:17:42 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
    [email protected] wrote:

    Arched footprints preserve the motions of fossil hominin feet
    Kevin G Hatala, Stephen M Gatesy & Peter L Falkingham 2023
    Nature Ecology & Evolution 7:32-41

    I'm going to repeat what I said elsewhere, because this is so important: People don't seem to be "Getting" this but, there is no real evidence for this arch until AFTER the chromosome fusion... believed to have
    happened less than 2 million years ago.
    Now you have to actually know a little something about the good
    Doctor's position to grasp what this means. But he makes a great
    deal out of erectus and the evidence for diving.
    Maybe we can say "Swimming," because underwater swimming is
    still swimming.
    The good Doctor isn't speculating here, he's pointing to the physical evidence for this. He's explaining the physical evidence: "Their
    remains look this way because they were diving."
    AND THIS he's seeing in finds that existed AFTER the chromosome
    fusion.
    I'm the one making the big deal about the chromosome fusion, not
    him. That's what I do. I steal things from different people and merge
    them, because the fact that they can and do merge means something.
    So what it looks like to me is that our ancestors were waterside.They
    lived along the shore. They exploited the sea. The consumed
    resources and then moved on. And as they did this, at various points
    in time (and places) groups branched off, pushed inland and adapted.
    But they would have remained co fertile for quite some time.
    The waterside group would have been moderating the adaptations,
    the evolution of the inland groups. The inland groups would have been moderating the evolution of the waterside group...
    AFTER THE CHROMOSOME FUSION, all this interbreeding, this
    moderation of the evolution just kind of stopped. The chromosome
    fusion was a barrier to interbreeding. This allowed the waterside group
    to better adapt to the water, as they were no longer being influenced
    by the inland populations. AND IT WAS AT THIS POINT where the arch
    seems to pop into evidence.
    Too complicated for savanna mouth breathers?

    And also too complicated for the "good doctor"?? :-D
    You're referring to Hs having 2 chromosomes less than apes?
    Where do we see chromo-fusions in other animals? correlation with lifestyle changes?
    e.g. correlation with island-living?? cause of consequence of lifestyle change??
    But wasn't the foot-arch much older? e.g. Trachilos??
    In any case, foot-arches are NOT for running, of course: cursorial mammals are unguli- or digitigrade.
    In any case, interesting thinking: I'll forward this to [email protected]

    No doubt.
    But consider also that bipedalism is VASTLY older than is Homo, YES
    amongst our ancestors. Starting with us, drawing a line backwards
    though all our potential ancestors, most of the history of bipedalism
    in our line was already over before Homo arose. So this arch can't be associated with bipedalism. It wasn't MILLIONS OF YEARS OF
    EVOLUTION that produced this arch. It was, at most, a few hundred
    thousand years following the chromosome fusion. Which strongly
    suggests environment as the factor. We stopped being influenced by
    the more primitive inland groups, we adapted more fully to waterside..

    Interesting. Possible.
    (Hominoid "BPism" is at least early-Miocene (>25 Ma?) IMO, google "aquarboreal".)

    It's all actually pretty brilliant. So brilliant that it has been lost entirely
    on every last opponent to Aquatic Ape. Not one has read the good
    Doctor's words and grasped their significance.
    The collective minds of Out of Africa purists across at least three
    groups that I follow, and never once has one grasped a word of this
    stuff.
    Congratulations.

    :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Aug 1 22:44:21 2023
    [email protected] wrote:
    Arched footprints preserve the motions of fossil hominin feet

    I posted this in March. Here is the REAL abstract and
    some excerpts...


    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-022-01929-2
    Published: 05 January 2023

    Abstract
    The longitudinal arch of the human foot is viewed as
    a pivotal adaptation for bipedal walking and running.
    Fossil footprints from Laetoli, Tanzania, and Ileret,
    Kenya, are believed to provide direct evidence of
    longitudinally arched feet in hominins from the
    Pliocene and Pleistocene, respectively. We studied
    the dynamics of track formation using biplanar X-ray,
    three-dimensional animation and discrete element
    particle simulation. Here, we demonstrate that
    longitudinally arched footprints are false indicators
    of foot anatomy; instead they are generated through a
    specific pattern of foot kinematics that is
    characteristic of human walking. Analyses of fossil
    hominin tracks from Laetoli show only partial evidence
    of this walking style, with a similar heel strike but
    a different pattern of propulsion. The earliest known
    evidence for fully modern human-like bipedal kinematics
    comes from the early Pleistocene Ileret tracks, which
    were presumably made by members of the genus Homo. This
    result signals important differences in the foot
    kinematics recorded at Laetoli and Ileret and underscores
    an emerging picture of locomotor diversity within the
    hominin clade.

    "The longitudinal arch is often cited as an important
    evolutionary innovation of the human foot that contributed
    to proficient bipedal walking and adept endurance running
    in our fossil relatives..."

    "Given the challenges of interpreting arches from fossil
    feet, the Laetoli and Ileret tracks are considered the
    least equivocal evidence for a deep history of
    longitudinally arched foot morphologies in hominin
    evolution."

    "While isolated analyses of skeletal fossils have
    generated conflicting interpretations about whether
    the A. afarensis foot functioned like that of a modern
    human, our analysis of the arched Laetoli footprints
    provides a unique kinematic synthesis. Brought into view
    through this new lens is a pattern of foot function and
    bipedal locomotion that was human-like in some ways
    yet still importantly different."

    "In contrast, 1.5 Ma tracks from Ileret, Kenya, preserve
    the earliest evidence for a fully human-like pattern of
    foot kinematics. Tracks from Ileret (total n = 4 from
    three trackways) have RAVs where we would expect similarly
    deep modern human tracks to fall (Fig. 4a). These data
    provide new evidence to support inferences of human-like
    foot kinematics in Homo erectus. We emphasize, however,
    that our track ontogeny results simultaneously invalidate
    direct association between arched footprint morphology and
    arched foot anatomy at Ileret11. In contrast with the
    Laetoli examples above, it appears that the Ileret tracks
    are fully consistent with not only a heel–sole–toe rollover
    pattern but also a pattern of forefoot propulsion closer to
    that observed in modern humans."

    "The results of our track analyses suggest that important
    changes to foot anatomy and function occurred at or before
    the emergence of the genus Homo, where a suite of postcranial
    changes could correspond to selective influences of locomotor
    behaviours such as long-distance walking or endurance running."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 2 02:56:02 2023
    "Arched footprints preserve the motions of fossil hominin feet"

    Yes, of course, human walking is ex-swimming-wading:
    - The earliest Hominoidea were already BP=aquarboreal = vertical BP.wading+vert.climbing+arm-hanging
    https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
    - The use of the word "hominin" wrongly presupposes australopiths as closer relatives of Homo than of Pan or Gorilla
    https://www.academia.edu/8732353/Marc_Verhaegens_papers_in_Human_Evolution
    - The Miocene hominid footprints of Trachilos (Medit.Sea-coast) were already BP.
    - Hylobatids are (still) mostly vertical.
    - Cursorial tetrapods don't have longitudinal foot arches, most are unguli- or digitigrade, never plantigrade.
    - There's 0 evidence of correlation of BPity with longitudinal arches in other tetrapods.

    How human foot-arches evolved is not so difficult to understand IMO, e.g.
    - wading-climbing Mio-Pliocene Hominoidea https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0169534702024904
    - wading-diving early-Pleistocene Homo https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21741646/
    - wading-walking late-Pleistocene Homo https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/


    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-022-01929-2
    The longitudinal arch of the human foot is viewed as
    a pivotal adaptation for bipedal walking and running.
    Fossil footprints from Laetoli, Tanzania, and Ileret,
    Kenya, are believed to provide direct evidence of
    longitudinally arched feet in hominins from the
    Pliocene and Pleistocene, respectively. We studied
    the dynamics of track formation using biplanar X-ray,
    three-dimensional animation and discrete element
    particle simulation. Here, we demonstrate that
    longitudinally arched footprints are false indicators
    of foot anatomy; instead they are generated through a
    specific pattern of foot kinematics that is
    characteristic of human walking. Analyses of fossil
    hominin tracks from Laetoli show only partial evidence
    of this walking style, with a similar heel strike but
    a different pattern of propulsion. The earliest known
    evidence for fully modern human-like bipedal kinematics
    comes from the early Pleistocene Ileret tracks, which
    were presumably made by members of the genus Homo. This
    result signals important differences in the foot
    kinematics recorded at Laetoli and Ileret and underscores
    an emerging picture of locomotor diversity within the
    hominin clade.
    "The longitudinal arch is often cited as an important
    evolutionary innovation of the human foot that contributed
    to proficient bipedal walking and adept endurance running
    in our fossil relatives..."

    "Given the challenges of interpreting arches from fossil
    feet, the Laetoli and Ileret tracks are considered the
    least equivocal evidence for a deep history of
    longitudinally arched foot morphologies in hominin
    evolution."

    "While isolated analyses of skeletal fossils have
    generated conflicting interpretations about whether
    the A. afarensis foot functioned like that of a modern
    human, our analysis of the arched Laetoli footprints
    provides a unique kinematic synthesis. Brought into view
    through this new lens is a pattern of foot function and
    bipedal locomotion that was human-like in some ways
    yet still importantly different."

    "In contrast, 1.5 Ma tracks from Ileret, Kenya, preserve
    the earliest evidence for a fully human-like pattern of
    foot kinematics. Tracks from Ileret (total n = 4 from
    three trackways) have RAVs where we would expect similarly
    deep modern human tracks to fall (Fig. 4a). These data
    provide new evidence to support inferences of human-like
    foot kinematics in Homo erectus. We emphasize, however,
    that our track ontogeny results simultaneously invalidate
    direct association between arched footprint morphology and
    arched foot anatomy at Ileret11. In contrast with the
    Laetoli examples above, it appears that the Ileret tracks
    are fully consistent with not only a heel–sole–toe rollover
    pattern but also a pattern of forefoot propulsion closer to
    that observed in modern humans."

    "The results of our track analyses suggest that important
    changes to foot anatomy and function occurred at or before
    the emergence of the genus Homo, where a suite of postcranial
    changes could correspond to selective influences of locomotor
    behaviours such as long-distance walking or endurance running."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JTEM is so reasonable@21:1/5 to Primum Sapienti on Wed Aug 2 20:13:21 2023
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    I posted this in March.

    And has been REPEATEDLY pointed out, it supports the good Doctor's
    views...

    Here, we demonstrate that
    longitudinally arched footprints are false indicators
    of foot anatomy; instead they are generated through a
    specific pattern of foot kinematics that is
    characteristic of human walking.

    You being an idiot, they're saying that your "longitudinally
    arched footprints" are NOT longitudinally arched footprints.

    So, MILLIONS OF YEARS of bipedal evolution amongst our
    ancestors, and these longitudinally arched feet don't appear
    to be associated with any of it. No, they appear to have
    evolved for some other reason.

    The good Doctor is right. And you've proven him right a very
    many times... only you're too stupid to know it.




    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/724367398494437376

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  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Aug 11 22:33:15 2023
    [email protected] wrote:
    "Arched footprints preserve the motions of fossil hominin feet"

    Yes, of course, human walking is ex-swimming-wading:

    Wading is walking in shallow water and has nothing to do with
    swimming.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JTEM is so reasonable@21:1/5 to Primum Sapienti on Fri Aug 11 22:21:17 2023
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    Wading is

    Your own cite proved you wrong. The arched feet wasn't a
    result of bipedalism. Our ancestors were walking bipedally
    for millions of years prior to arched feet.
    So the arched feet needed something else.




    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/725326422014640128

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 12 13:07:18 2023
    somebody:

    Wading is walking in shallow water and has nothing to do with
    swimming.

    ??
    Most wading tetrapods also swim...
    Flat feet are advantageous for swimming (paddle) as well as for wading (mud).

    But only incredible imbeciles believe that horses & antelopes & deer run with flat feet.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to JTEM is so reasonable on Mon Sep 4 00:27:09 2023
    JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    Wading is

    Your own cite proved you wrong. The arched feet wasn't a
    result of bipedalism. Our ancestors were walking bipedally
    for millions of years prior to arched feet.
    So the arched feet needed something else.

    Walking. Because wading is just walking in shallow
    water and thus water isn't needed.




    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-022-01929-2
    Published: 05 January 2023

    Abstract
    The longitudinal arch of the human foot is viewed as
    a pivotal adaptation for bipedal walking and running.
    Fossil footprints from Laetoli, Tanzania, and Ileret,
    Kenya, are believed to provide direct evidence of
    longitudinally arched feet in hominins from the
    Pliocene and Pleistocene, respectively. We studied
    the dynamics of track formation using biplanar X-ray,
    three-dimensional animation and discrete element
    particle simulation. Here, we demonstrate that
    longitudinally arched footprints are false indicators
    of foot anatomy; instead they are generated through a
    specific pattern of foot kinematics that is
    characteristic of human walking. Analyses of fossil
    hominin tracks from Laetoli show only partial evidence
    of this walking style, with a similar heel strike but
    a different pattern of propulsion. The earliest known
    evidence for fully modern human-like bipedal kinematics
    comes from the early Pleistocene Ileret tracks, which
    were presumably made by members of the genus Homo. This
    result signals important differences in the foot
    kinematics recorded at Laetoli and Ileret and underscores
    an emerging picture of locomotor diversity within the
    hominin clade.

    "The longitudinal arch is often cited as an important
    evolutionary innovation of the human foot that contributed
    to proficient bipedal walking and adept endurance running
    in our fossil relatives..."

    "Given the challenges of interpreting arches from fossil
    feet, the Laetoli and Ileret tracks are considered the
    least equivocal evidence for a deep history of
    longitudinally arched foot morphologies in hominin
    evolution."

    "While isolated analyses of skeletal fossils have
    generated conflicting interpretations about whether
    the A. afarensis foot functioned like that of a modern
    human, our analysis of the arched Laetoli footprints
    provides a unique kinematic synthesis. Brought into view
    through this new lens is a pattern of foot function and
    bipedal locomotion that was human-like in some ways
    yet still importantly different."

    "In contrast, 1.5 Ma tracks from Ileret, Kenya, preserve
    the earliest evidence for a fully human-like pattern of
    foot kinematics. Tracks from Ileret (total n = 4 from
    three trackways) have RAVs where we would expect similarly
    deep modern human tracks to fall (Fig. 4a). These data
    provide new evidence to support inferences of human-like
    foot kinematics in Homo erectus. We emphasize, however,
    that our track ontogeny results simultaneously invalidate
    direct association between arched footprint morphology and
    arched foot anatomy at Ileret11. In contrast with the
    Laetoli examples above, it appears that the Ileret tracks
    are fully consistent with not only a heel–sole–toe rollover
    pattern but also a pattern of forefoot propulsion closer to
    that observed in modern humans."

    "The results of our track analyses suggest that important
    changes to foot anatomy and function occurred at or before
    the emergence of the genus Homo, where a suite of postcranial
    changes could correspond to selective influences of locomotor
    behaviours such as long-distance walking or endurance running."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JTEM is so reasonable@21:1/5 to Primum Sapienti on Mon Sep 4 11:14:19 2023
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    JTEM is so reasonable wrote:

    Your own cite proved you wrong. The arched feet wasn't a
    result of bipedalism. Our ancestors were walking bipedally
    for millions of years prior to arched feet.
    So the arched feet needed something else.

    Walking. Because wading is just walking in shallow
    water and thus water isn't needed.

    Again, because your religion is blocking you from seeing it,
    you "Longitudinal Arched Feet" don't actually appear until
    after at least 5 million years of bipedal locomotion. So,
    they are not the product of bipedalism.

    Your own cite:

    We emphasize, however,
    that our track ontogeny results simultaneously invalidate
    direct association between arched footprint morphology and
    arched foot anatomy at Ileret11.

    So the selective pressure wasn't bipedal locomotion, as you
    keep establishing. The good Doctor has a great point.




    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/726557549488439296

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