1. Forum
  2. Usenet
  3. SCI.ANTHROPOLOGY.PALEO

  • Neanderthal diet

    From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 8 15:42:57 2022
    Salmon contain blood & bones

    Shallow marine waters: blood clam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegillarca_granosa

    Let’s start with a study published in PNAS in October, on Neanderthal diet. It focused on Cueva de los Moros 1, in the Gabasa region of north-east Spain. The researchers studied the enamel of several teeth from the cave, including a single Neanderthal
    molar. They used a new method of reconstructing diet that relies on isotopes of elements like zinc – this has the advantage that it still works even if the tooth doesn’t contain any preserved protein.

    The study confirmed that the Neanderthal in question ate a lot of meat, but with a twist: They seem not to have eaten bones or blood. That’s a little unusual. Blood has plenty of nutrients, and bone marrow is often one of the most nutritious parts of
    an animal. There’s a reason hyenas crunch bones, and why chefs put bones in stews.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 8 20:36:07 2022
    DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
    Salmon contain blood & bones

    Shallow marine waters: blood clam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegillarca_granosa

    Let’s start with a study published in PNAS in October, on Neanderthal diet. It focused on Cueva de los Moros 1, in the Gabasa region of north-east Spain. The researchers studied the enamel of several teeth from the cave, including a single
    Neanderthal molar. They used a new method of reconstructing diet that relies on isotopes of elements like zinc – this has the advantage that it still works even if the tooth doesn’t contain any preserved protein.

    The study confirmed that the Neanderthal in question ate a lot of meat, but with a twist: They seem not to have eaten bones or blood. That’s a little unusual. Blood has plenty of nutrients, and bone marrow is often one of the most nutritious parts of
    an animal. There’s a reason hyenas crunch bones, and why chefs put bones in stews.



    https://www.pnas.org/doi/epdf/10.1073/pnas.2109315119
    A Neandertal dietary conundrum: Insights provided by tooth
    enamel Zn isotopes from Gabasa, Spain

    Pertinent mentions of blood in the article:

    "A combination of dietary practices might explain the low δ66Zn-enamel
    value of the Neandertal. Zinc isotopes are highly fractionated in
    mammalian tissues, and differ-ent mammalian species have different
    isotope compositions. Thus, a low δ66Zn value might reflect consumption
    of muscle and liver (lowδ66Zn) from deer and rabbits (lower δ66Zn than
    other herbivores; Fig. 3) (also supported by δ13C and δ18O for which Neandertals exhibit values close to these animals; Figs. 3and 4 and SI Appendix, Fig. S10), while excluding bones and blood (high δ66Zn)."

    "In addition, all these carnivores may consume substantial blood, possibly helping to explain higher δ66Zn values than the Neandertal."

    "Furthermore, the low Zn iso-tope ratio observed in the single measured
    Gabasa Neandertal specimen suggests that this individual might have had
    a distinct diet compared with other carnivores (possibly avoiding the consumption of bones and blood) and/or may not have fractionated Zn
    isotopes like other sympatric carnivores."

    No mention of marrow.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 9 06:24:31 2022
    :-DDD
    I've answered this seveal times, but netloons never inform a little bit. Traditional PAs said neandertals were super-carnivorous (impossible, of course: you can't be more carnivorous than e.g. felids!),
    but for some obscure reason, they didn't consider aquatic foods:
    neandertals were not supercarnivorous at all: their diet was simply intermediate between freshwater & marine foods,
    simply google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo" p.24 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323832499_Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo


    Salmon contain blood & bones
    Shallow marine waters: blood clam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegillarca_granosa
    Let’s start with a study published in PNAS in October, on Neanderthal diet. It focused on Cueva de los Moros 1, in the Gabasa region of north-east Spain. The researchers studied the enamel of several teeth from the cave, including a single
    Neanderthal molar. They used a new method of reconstructing diet that relies on isotopes of elements like zinc – this has the advantage that it still works even if the tooth doesn’t contain any preserved protein.
    The study confirmed that the Neanderthal in question ate a lot of meat, but with a twist: They seem not to have eaten bones or blood. That’s a little unusual. Blood has plenty of nutrients, and bone marrow is often one of the most nutritious parts of
    an animal. There’s a reason hyenas crunch bones, and why chefs put bones in stews.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 9 15:17:14 2022
    Op woensdag 9 november 2022 om 00:42:59 UTC+1 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

    Salmon contain blood & bones
    Shallow marine waters: blood clam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegillarca_granosa
    Let’s start with a study published in PNAS in October, on Hn diet. It focused on Cueva de los Moros 1, Gabasa region, NE.Spain. The researchers studied the enamel of several teeth from the cave, incl. 1 Hn molar. They used a new method of
    reconstructing diet that relies on isotopes of elements like Zinc – this has the advantage that it still works, even if the tooth doesn’t contain any preserved protein.
    The study confirmed that the Hn in question ate a lot of meat, but with a twist: They seem not to have eaten bones or blood. That’s a little unusual. Blood has plenty of nutrients, and bone marrow is often one of the most nutritious parts of an
    animal. There’s a reason hyenas crunch bones, and why chefs put bones in stews.

    :-DDD

    Francesca at AAT confirms my view:

    A Neandertal dietary conundrum: Insights provided by tooth enamel Zn isotopes from Gabasa, Spain
    https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2109315119
    The authors are confused by the very low δ66Zn values in a Hn tooth enamel, much lower than most carnivores like wolves, foxes & bears.
    The lower the value = the higher the Zn consumption, which is higher in meat than in vegetables.
    Therefore, they assume Hn were hyper-carnivores,
    but this doesn’t correlate with other research on Hn diets ...
    But Hn also have much higher nitrogen isotope ratios (δ15N) than that of carnivores; hence the conundrum.
    Nevertheless, they easily dismiss aquatic foods because they claim to have found no fish-bones or other aquatic resources.



    δ15N is found almost exclusively in marine environments. https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/60216/why-is-nitrogen-15-found-almost-exclusively-in-marine-environments

    Also, they don’t seem to have considered oysters:
    How much zinc is in seafood?
    The DV for zinc is 11 mg for adults & children age 4 years & older [12].

    Food

    mg per serving


    Percent DV*

    Oysters, Eastern, farmed, raw, 3 ounces


    32


    291

    Oysters, Pacific, cooked, 3 ounces


    28.2


    256

    Beef, bottom sirloin, roasted, 3 ounces


    3.8


    35

    Blue crab, cooked, 3 ounces


    3.2


    29



    Seems to me Neanderthals were not killing and eating a mammoth a day, but plenty of oysters.



    Francesca

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)