Does he look as if he has gained a bit of weight, like muscle?
Scall5 <[email protected]> Wrote in message:rserve (because mine sucks). That said, I think you are right.-- ---------------Scall5
On 5/10/2025 6:07 PM, Sawfish wrote:> Does he look as if he has gained a bit of weight, like muscle?I had the match on my TV, but was doing other things around the house so I wasn't paying too much attention. I assumed the result and only watched his
I hope you know cables companies collect tracking data?
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/nov/smart-tv-tracking-raises-privacy-concerns
On 5/11/25 4:57 PM, Scall5 wrote:> On 5/11/2025 10:25 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:>> Scall5 <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r>>> On 5/10/2025 6:07 PM, Sawfish wrote:> Does he look as if he has >>> gained a bit of weight, like muscle?I had the match on myTV, but was >>> doing other things around the house so I wasn't paying too much >>> attention. I assumed the result and only watched his serve (because >>> mine sucks). That said, I think you are right.-- ---------------Scall5>>>> I hope you know cables
On 5/11/25 4:57 PM, Scall5 wrote:
On 5/11/2025 10:25 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Scall5 <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r
On 5/10/2025 6:07 PM, Sawfish wrote:> Does he look as if he has
gained a bit of weight, like muscle?I had the match on my TV, but
was doing other things around the house so I wasn't paying too much
attention. I assumed the result and only watched his serve (because
mine sucks). That said, I think you are right.-- ---------------Scall5
I hope you know cables companies collect tracking data?
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/nov/smart-tv-tracking-raises-privacy-
concerns
Sadly yes, I am aware of this. But until we Libertarians take the oval
office, nothing will change...your duopoly Demo-GOP regime is too paid
off to change anything.
Now I am asking this honestly, Scall, and I'd be willing to carry on a thorough conversion via email or something because people like hopping
on anything they can to make one look bad, but as much as I admire the
tenets of libertarianism, I can envision NO scenario in which they ever
have major political power at even the state level, let alone the
national level. Here's why...
Like socialism, which in order to work, the vast majority has to be
generous and trusting, with no significant cheating, libertarianism
requires the vast majority has to be responsible for themselves and self motivated.
In neither case have I seen this as a stable, self-sustaining system.
You can coerce an adherence to a socialistic system by *forcing* redistribution thru police actions, but this breeds an eventual reset.
But libertarians, by their ethos, would not attempt to coerce self- reliance--the natural order (cold, hunger, etc.) does the enforcing. But
if the majority *wants* someone to take responsibility and supply needs,
they will reject the libertarian minority.
So really,both socialism and libertarianism are utopian in nature.
What do you think?
Scall5 <[email protected]> writes:
On 5/11/2025 10:25 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Scall5 <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r
On 5/10/2025 6:07 PM, Sawfish wrote:> Does he look as if he hasI hope you know cables companies collect tracking data?
gained a bit of weight, like muscle?I had the match on my TV, but
was doing other things around the house so I wasn't paying too much
attention. I assumed the result and only watched his serve (because
mine sucks). That said, I think you are right.-- ---------------Scall5
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/nov/smart-tv-tracking-raises-privacy-
concerns
Sadly yes, I am aware of this. But until we Libertarians take the oval
office, nothing will change...your duopoly Demo-GOP regime is too paid
off to change anything.
And how would that change anything? American libertarians are famously anti-regulation, and the companies involved would simply say "Hey, we're
not forcing you to use our network. If you don't like our surveillance, build your own network".
On 5/12/25 4:45 PM, Scall5 wrote:
On 5/11/2025 9:04 PM, Sawfish wrote:
On 5/11/25 4:57 PM, Scall5 wrote:
On 5/11/2025 10:25 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Scall5 <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r
On 5/10/2025 6:07 PM, Sawfish wrote:> Does he look as if he has
gained a bit of weight, like muscle?I had the match on my TV, but
was doing other things around the house so I wasn't paying too
much attention. I assumed the result and only watched his serve
(because mine sucks). That said, I think you are right.--
---------------Scall5
I hope you know cables companies collect tracking data?
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/nov/smart-tv-tracking-raises-
privacy- concerns
Sadly yes, I am aware of this. But until we Libertarians take the
oval office, nothing will change...your duopoly Demo-GOP regime is
too paid off to change anything.
Now I am asking this honestly, Scall, and I'd be willing to carry on
a thorough conversion via email or something because people like
hopping on anything they can to make one look bad, but as much as I
admire the tenets of libertarianism, I can envision NO scenario in
which they ever have major political power at even the state level,
let alone the national level. Here's why...
Like socialism, which in order to work, the vast majority has to be
generous and trusting, with no significant cheating, libertarianism
requires the vast majority has to be responsible for themselves and
self motivated.
True. But I also believe in a strong military (based at home) and
police/judicial system. Police enforcing laws that protect us instead
of doing thinks like ticket monthly quotas and the war of drugs.
In neither case have I seen this as a stable, self-sustaining system.
You can coerce an adherence to a socialistic system by *forcing*
redistribution thru police actions, but this breeds an eventual
reset. But libertarians, by their ethos, would not attempt to coerce
self- reliance--the natural order (cold, hunger, etc.) does the
enforcing. But if the majority *wants* someone to take responsibility
and supply needs, they will reject the libertarian minority.
So really,both socialism and libertarianism are utopian in nature.
What do you think?
So is ideal Communism. More so than the two above.
No arguments from me, but we were not talking about communism, just
whether the two systems I mentioned were utopian.
On 5/12/25 6:22 PM, Scall5 wrote:
On 5/12/2025 8:00 PM, Sawfish wrote:
On 5/12/25 4:45 PM, Scall5 wrote:
On 5/11/2025 9:04 PM, Sawfish wrote:
On 5/11/25 4:57 PM, Scall5 wrote:
On 5/11/2025 10:25 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Scall5 <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r
On 5/10/2025 6:07 PM, Sawfish wrote:> Does he look as if he has >>>>>>>> gained a bit of weight, like muscle?I had the match on my TV,
but was doing other things around the house so I wasn't paying >>>>>>>> too much attention. I assumed the result and only watched his
serve (because mine sucks). That said, I think you are right.-- >>>>>>>> ---------------Scall5
I hope you know cables companies collect tracking data?
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/nov/smart-tv-tracking-raises-
privacy- concerns
Sadly yes, I am aware of this. But until we Libertarians take the
oval office, nothing will change...your duopoly Demo-GOP regime is >>>>>> too paid off to change anything.
Now I am asking this honestly, Scall, and I'd be willing to carry
on a thorough conversion via email or something because people like
hopping on anything they can to make one look bad, but as much as I
admire the tenets of libertarianism, I can envision NO scenario in
which they ever have major political power at even the state level,
let alone the national level. Here's why...
Like socialism, which in order to work, the vast majority has to be
generous and trusting, with no significant cheating, libertarianism
requires the vast majority has to be responsible for themselves and
self motivated.
True. But I also believe in a strong military (based at home) and
police/judicial system. Police enforcing laws that protect us
instead of doing thinks like ticket monthly quotas and the war of
drugs.
In neither case have I seen this as a stable, self-sustaining
system. You can coerce an adherence to a socialistic system by
*forcing* redistribution thru police actions, but this breeds an
eventual reset. But libertarians, by their ethos, would not attempt
to coerce self- reliance--the natural order (cold, hunger, etc.)
does the enforcing. But if the majority *wants* someone to take
responsibility and supply needs, they will reject the libertarian
minority.
So really,both socialism and libertarianism are utopian in nature.
What do you think?
So is ideal Communism. More so than the two above.
No arguments from me, but we were not talking about communism, just
whether the two systems I mentioned were utopian.
Never gave it much thought, because in reality an utopian society is
completely impossible given human nature.
Ultimately that's what I'm worried about with Libertarianism, Scall.
On 5/13/25 7:13 PM, Scall5 wrote:
On 5/12/2025 8:43 PM, Sawfish wrote:
On 5/12/25 6:22 PM, Scall5 wrote:
On 5/12/2025 8:00 PM, Sawfish wrote:
On 5/12/25 4:45 PM, Scall5 wrote:
On 5/11/2025 9:04 PM, Sawfish wrote:
On 5/11/25 4:57 PM, Scall5 wrote:
On 5/11/2025 10:25 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Scall5 <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r
On 5/10/2025 6:07 PM, Sawfish wrote:> Does he look as if he >>>>>>>>>> has gained a bit of weight, like muscle?I had the match on my >>>>>>>>>> TV, but was doing other things around the house so I wasn't >>>>>>>>>> paying too much attention. I assumed the result and only
watched his serve (because mine sucks). That said, I think you >>>>>>>>>> are right.-- ---------------Scall5
I hope you know cables companies collect tracking data?
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/nov/smart-tv-tracking-raises- >>>>>>>>> privacy- concerns
Sadly yes, I am aware of this. But until we Libertarians take
the oval office, nothing will change...your duopoly Demo-GOP
regime is too paid off to change anything.
Now I am asking this honestly, Scall, and I'd be willing to carry >>>>>>> on a thorough conversion via email or something because people
like hopping on anything they can to make one look bad, but as
much as I admire the tenets of libertarianism, I can envision NO >>>>>>> scenario in which they ever have major political power at even
the state level, let alone the national level. Here's why...
Like socialism, which in order to work, the vast majority has to >>>>>>> be generous and trusting, with no significant cheating,
libertarianism requires the vast majority has to be responsible
for themselves and self motivated.
True. But I also believe in a strong military (based at home) and
police/judicial system. Police enforcing laws that protect us
instead of doing thinks like ticket monthly quotas and the war of
drugs.
In neither case have I seen this as a stable, self-sustaining
system. You can coerce an adherence to a socialistic system by
*forcing* redistribution thru police actions, but this breeds an >>>>>>> eventual reset. But libertarians, by their ethos, would not
attempt to coerce self- reliance--the natural order (cold,
hunger, etc.) does the enforcing. But if the majority *wants*
someone to take responsibility and supply needs, they will reject >>>>>>> the libertarian minority.
So really,both socialism and libertarianism are utopian in nature. >>>>>>>
What do you think?
So is ideal Communism. More so than the two above.
No arguments from me, but we were not talking about communism, just
whether the two systems I mentioned were utopian.
Never gave it much thought, because in reality an utopian society is
completely impossible given human nature.
Ultimately that's what I'm worried about with Libertarianism, Scall.
Who ever said the Libertarian Party of America is about an utopian
environment?
OK, we can limit it to the official LPA.
I don't see them as being elected either as an executive magistrate, or
in a legislative majority, or even a small minority, in any place larger
than a US county. Not because it wouldn't work (if everyone else also
agreed to adhere to LPA principals), but because it would be hard to get
more than 20% of the vote.
If this is accurate--and it might not be--the LPA would be an opposition party, at most.
What am I missing?
Scall5 <[email protected]> writes:
On 5/11/2025 8:44 PM, jdeluise wrote:
Scall5 <[email protected]> writes:
On 5/11/2025 10:25 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:And how would that change anything? American libertarians are
Scall5 <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r
On 5/10/2025 6:07 PM, Sawfish wrote:> Does he look as if he hasI hope you know cables companies collect tracking data?
gained a bit of weight, like muscle?I had the match on my TV, but
was doing other things around the house so I wasn't paying too
much attention. I assumed the result and only watched his serve
(because mine sucks). That said, I think you are right.--
---------------Scall5
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/nov/smart-tv-tracking-raises-privacy- >>>>> concerns
Sadly yes, I am aware of this. But until we Libertarians take the oval >>>> office, nothing will change...your duopoly Demo-GOP regime is too paid >>>> off to change anything.
famously anti-regulation, and the companies involved would simply
say "Hey, we're not forcing you to use our network. If you don't
like our surveillance, build your own network".
The duopoly also prevents competition.
What would be the incentive for companies to change their ways in a libertarian society? They get economic benefits from tracking what we watch. And the average consumer doesn't care enough to look for alternatives...
Scall5 <[email protected]> writes:
On 5/12/2025 9:07 PM, jdeluise wrote:
Scall5 <[email protected]> writes:
On 5/11/2025 8:44 PM, jdeluise wrote:What would be the incentive for companies to change their ways in a
Scall5 <[email protected]> writes:
On 5/11/2025 10:25 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:And how would that change anything? American libertarians are
Scall5 <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r
On 5/10/2025 6:07 PM, Sawfish wrote:> Does he look as if he has >>>>>>>> gained a bit of weight, like muscle?I had the match on my TV, but >>>>>>>> was doing other things around the house so I wasn't paying too >>>>>>>> much attention. I assumed the result and only watched his serve >>>>>>>> (because mine sucks). That said, I think you are right.--I hope you know cables companies collect tracking data?
---------------Scall5
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/nov/smart-tv-tracking-raises-
privacy-
concerns
Sadly yes, I am aware of this. But until we Libertarians take the
oval
office, nothing will change...your duopoly Demo-GOP regime is too
paid
off to change anything.
famously anti-regulation, and the companies involved would simply
say "Hey, we're not forcing you to use our network. If you don't
like our surveillance, build your own network".
The duopoly also prevents competition.
libertarian society? They get economic benefits from tracking what
we watch. And the average consumer doesn't care enough to look for
alternatives...
The same as companies like Duck-Duck-Go and Thunderbird do, make
privacy a selling point.
Well, these are very niche products... thunderbird has a *fraction of a percent* of market share, is open-source and supported by a non-profit (Mozilla Foundation). In any case, what does that have to do with libertarianism? You said this issue of media companies tracking users
could be fixed if libertarians took office. Regulations are out by definition. So what would they do to "fix" it?
Scall5 <[email protected]> writes:> On 5/14/2025 9:56 PM, jdeluise wrote:>> Scall5 <[email protected]> writes:>> >>> On 5/12/2025 9:07 PM, jdeluise wrote:>>>> Scall5 <[email protected]> writes:>>>>>>>>> On 5/11/2025 8:44 PM, jdeluise wrote:>>>>>> Scall5 <[email protected]> writes:>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/11/2025 10:25 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:>>>>>>>> Scall5 <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2025 6:07 PM, Sawfish wrote:> Does he look as if >>>>>>>>> he has>>>>>>>>> gained a bit of weight, like
But I'm not opposed to libertarianism. Personally, I align with many of its principles and like the ideas at a surface level. But go deeper and I think it has many flaws which prevent it from being used to build or maintain strong societies at scale.Like communism, I think it relies on an inherent denial of some aspects of human nature to work effectively. And as we see again and again, the true believers talk big but never have any answers to the hard questions.
jdeluise <[email protected]> Wrote in message:Like communism, I think it relies on an inherent denial of some aspects of human nature to work effectively. And as we see again and again, the true believers talk big but never have any answers to the hard questions.
But I'm not opposed to libertarianism. Personally, I align with many of its principles and like the ideas at a surface level. But go deeper and I think it has many flaws which prevent it from being used to build or maintain strong societies at scale.
I never said you were opposed, I said your shtick is boring.
If anything, denial of humane nature is exactly what you do, trying to box every person you argue with and supposedly expose their hypocrisy or lack of consistency in their worldview. As if people are so black and white all the time
As if that person, after you catch them being illogical or inconsistent in one issue, would then run away in shame and you'd win the argument.
You constantly do it and it's ridiculous.
You've said nothing of substance, scal. I've long suspected that for you being libertarian is merely way to express your individuality and feel good about yourself. But, ultimately you don't know much about it. Once you're done reciting the partyline talking points, you've got nothing else. I felt this way last year when you refused to answer pretty basic questions about your own views on libertarianism. This exchange hasn't changed my mind at all.
jdeluise <[email protected]> Wrote in message:line talking points, you've got nothing else. I felt this way last year when you refused to answer pretty basic questions about your own views on libertarianism. This exchange hasn't changed my mind at all.
You've said nothing of substance, scal. I've long suspected that for you being libertarian is merely way to express your individuality and feel good about yourself. But, ultimately you don't know much about it. Once you're done reciting the party
More shaming attempts, see what you constantly do?
In the end, what's the point, he has to write a thesis on his views for you to accept them?
Scall5 <[email protected]> writes:
On 5/14/2025 9:56 PM, jdeluise wrote:
Scall5 <[email protected]> writes:
On 5/12/2025 9:07 PM, jdeluise wrote:Well, these are very niche products... thunderbird has a *fraction
Scall5 <[email protected]> writes:
On 5/11/2025 8:44 PM, jdeluise wrote:What would be the incentive for companies to change their ways in a
Scall5 <[email protected]> writes:
On 5/11/2025 10:25 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:And how would that change anything? American libertarians are
Scall5 <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r
On 5/10/2025 6:07 PM, Sawfish wrote:> Does he look as if he has >>>>>>>>>> gained a bit of weight, like muscle?I had the match on my TV, but >>>>>>>>>> was doing other things around the house so I wasn't paying too >>>>>>>>>> much attention. I assumed the result and only watched his serve >>>>>>>>>> (because mine sucks). That said, I think you are right.--I hope you know cables companies collect tracking data?
---------------Scall5
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/nov/smart-tv-tracking-raises- >>>>>>>>> privacy-
concerns
Sadly yes, I am aware of this. But until we Libertarians take
the oval
office, nothing will change...your duopoly Demo-GOP regime is
too paid
off to change anything.
famously anti-regulation, and the companies involved would simply >>>>>>> say "Hey, we're not forcing you to use our network. If you don't >>>>>>> like our surveillance, build your own network".
The duopoly also prevents competition.
libertarian society? They get economic benefits from tracking what >>>>> we watch. And the average consumer doesn't care enough to look for >>>>> alternatives...
The same as companies like Duck-Duck-Go and Thunderbird do, make
privacy a selling point.
of a percent* of market share, is open-source and supported by a
non-profit (Mozilla Foundation). In any case, what does that have
to do with libertarianism? You said this issue of media companies
tracking users could be fixed if libertarians took
office. Regulations are out by definition. So what would they do to
"fix" it?
Good gosh are you clutching at straws and ignoring my previous posts!
Is this some type of Tesla-buying remorse that you have?
You made the claim, now defend it. If you have no answer you can just
admit it.
Scall5 <[email protected]> Wrote in message:arms of the state.
Like I said about buyer's having more opportunities to buy/use privacy-promoting software/hardware/websites. It would create more competition. Based on COVID recent history, you can clearly see how Twitter (now X), Facebook, and Google proved they are
This is where we probably wouldn't agree for long term solution.
Yes, they're arms of the state, but the ultimate solution wouldn't be to cut those arms, or grow gazillion new arms "so that you have many options", even though it would alleviate the problems, the other practical solution is that you are the state.
That you're confident that your people, like-minded people and your kinship, run the state so at that point, arms won't bother you.
Like I said about buyer's having more opportunities to buy/use privacy-promoting software/hardware/websites. It would create more competition. Based on COVID recent history, you can clearly see how Twitter (now X), Facebook, and Google proved they arearms of the state.
Scall5 <[email protected]> Wrote in message:arms of the state.
Like I said about buyer's having more opportunities to buy/use privacy-promoting software/hardware/websites. It would create more competition. Based on COVID recent history, you can clearly see how Twitter (now X), Facebook, and Google proved they are
This is where we probably wouldn't agree for long term solution.
Yes, they're arms of the state, but the ultimate solution wouldn't be to cut those arms, or grow gazillion new arms "so that you have many options", even though it would alleviate the problems, the other practical solution is that you are the state.
That you're confident that your people, like-minded people and your kinship, run the state so at that point, arms won't bother you.
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