What is often overlooked in Finland's role in World War II is: Finland
was also an occupying power.

According to a recent study, the Finnish occupation administration in
East Karelia in 1941–1944 had one clear goal: the creation of Greater Finland.

– Territorial expansion as a war aim was disputed, and public discussion
on the subject was wanted to be curbed right from the very beginning of
the war. Yet, almost until the end of the occupation, a policy was
implemented in the occupied territory, the purpose of which was to
prepare the region for annexation to Finland and the realization of
Greater Finland, says historian Liisa Vuonokari-Bomström .

Finland and Adolf Hitler's Germany attacked the Soviet Union in the
summer of 1941. For Finland, this marked the start of the Continuation War.

The rapidly advancing Finnish army captured a large part of Soviet
Karelia. In October 1941, Finnish troops marched on the largest
population center in the region, Petrozavodsk. The city was renamed Oänislinna. It would become the capital of Finnish East Karelia.

In mid-July 1941, CGE Mannerheim issued an order to establish a
provisional military administration in East Karelia. He had written
about the freedom of Karelia and the now shrinking presence of a greater Finland.

– The military administration had to ensure the launch and continuation
of civilian life in East Karelia and at the same time prepare for the
region to be as easy as possible to later be incorporated into Finland.
The administration's activities were ideologically based on the idea of ​​Greater Finland cherished by tribal activists.

This is what Vuonokari-Bomström says in her recently published doctoral dissertation “The East Karelian War Booty Archive as a Tool of the
Occupation Administration and the Builder of Greater Finland 1941–1944”.

– The idea of ​​the realization of Greater Finland was completely dependent on Germany's military success and the fact that the Third
Reich was seeking living space in the East. In practice, the connection
to Germany was visible, for example, in the plan to transfer all persons defined as non-nationals from the occupied territory to other parts of
the Soviet Union conquered by the Germans, Vuonokari-Bomström says in a telephone interview with Yle.

The plan could not be implemented because Germany's war fortunes turned
around at the latest in the great Battle of Stalingrad, which ended in
early February 1943.

“The intention was to carry out ethnic cleansing”

The idea of ​​Greater Finland was based on the idea that there was an
East Karelia that was historically, culturally and geographically part
of the same entity as Finland.

The Finnish military administration strongly questioned the ideology and methods of the Soviet regime.

Finland divided the civilian population of East Karelia by nationality
and isolated a large part of the Russians in camps, which were called concentration camps until 1943. The military administration's division
into "national" and "non-national" local residents profoundly influenced
all its activities. Presumed ancestry and ethnic purity became the most important determining factor.

– Even those who were released as non-citizens were kept separate from
those who were defined as nationals. People defined as non-citizens were
given smaller food rations, paid lower wages, and their children were
not given the opportunity to attend school.

Only those defined as nationals were intended to remain in East Karelia
after it was annexed to Finland.

– The intention was to carry out ethnic cleansing in East Karelia, which
was occupied by Finland. It was not carried out, but it was planned, Vuonokari-Bomström says.

In Finland, there has been little public discussion about Finland's role
as an occupier, the researcher says. According to her, this was
reflected in confusion when Russia used the occupation period as a tool
for its historical politics and accused Finland of genocide.

– In order to address the propaganda use of history, researched
information is needed as a basis for discussion. It is precisely the polyphonic, research-based exchange of views that distinguishes Finland
from Russia today. The strength of Finnish historical discussion is that
we can also address mistakes made in the past.

Russia last released a series of new archival documents in April 2020, concerning events in eastern Karelia during the Continuation War and
conditions in camps run by the Finnish army. Shortly after, the
country's Investigative Committee announced that it would begin
investigating the alleged mass murder of civilians in Karelia by Finns.

There were people in the occupation government who harbored racist
anti-Russian hatred. It was specifically aimed at ethnic Russians, not
so much at the structures of the government. The entire nation was to be
hated based on its innate, inevitably emerging characteristics, the
researcher says.

– However, anti-Russian sentiment was not an officially defined issue in
the same way as, for example, the status of Jews in National Socialist
Germany.

In the future, in a Finnish East Karelia, Russianness would have been a
thing left in the history of the region.

– People defined as national were instilled, both directly and
indirectly, with the idea that they were inherently privileged because
of their nationality. On the other hand, they were expected to detach themselves from anything that could be defined as Russian influence in
local culture, Vuonokari-Bomström's doctoral dissertation states.
A group of military pilots stand in front of an airplane, studying a map.

Uniformed officers of the occupation administration guarded the
concentration camps. There were six in Petrozavodsk during the
Continuation War, and there were also camps in several villages
elsewhere in Soviet Karelia. They were based on the fear that the
Russian population might participate in guerrilla warfare and
destruction behind the front lines.

Conditions in the concentration camps were “catastrophically bad” until
the fall of 1942. In addition to the fact that prisoners were deprived
of their right to self-determination and freedom of movement, the camps
were extremely overcrowded, the hygiene situation was substandard, and
the food supply was inadequate.

– At least 17 percent of the concentration camp prisoners in the
occupied territory died, or more than 4,000 people, the historian says.

During the occupation, East Karelia had a maximum population of just
over 88,000 people. At its peak, the camps contained approximately
24,000 women, children and the elderly. The majority of civilians had
been evacuated from the path of the Finnish and Nazi German invasion,
while the male population served in the Red Army at the front.

At the Tehran Conference in late 1943, Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin
claimed that the behavior of the Finns in the territories they occupied
was as brutal as that of the Germans.

Conditions in the concentration camps in East Karelia began to gradually improve from the autumn of 1942 onwards. When information began to
emerge about the mass extermination of Jews, the more subtle term
"deportation camp" was adopted in East Karelia.

For some Finns, the defeat of the Soviet Union still seemed inevitable
even in 1943 because it was the “right” solution. Or, as former
President PE Svinhufvud put it: all of world history would lose its
meaning if Germany did not win.

– The halting and eventual defeat of the German attack meant that many
of the actions planned by the Finns also failed to materialize: the
occupied territory was not officially annexed to Finland, and the
planned ethnic cleansing was not carried out.

The Soviet offensive on the Isthmus began on June 9, 1944. Work
continued in the Petrozavodsk War Booty Archive for a few days after
this. The last letter found in the materials related to normal routines
is dated June 16, 1944.

The Finnish army withdrew from Petrozavodsk and elsewhere in East
Karelia at the end of June 1944.

https://yle-fi.translate.goog/a/74-20144197?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

--
“We need to acknowledge he let us down. He went down a path he shouldn’t have, and we shouldn’t have followed him. We shouldn’t have listened to him, and we can’t let that happen ever again”.
-- Nikki Haley

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 25.2.2025 klo 20.10:

What is often overlooked in Finland's role in World War II is: Finland
was also an occupying power.

According to a recent study, the Finnish occupation administration in
East Karelia in 1941–1944 had one clear goal: the creation of Greater Finland.

– Territorial expansion as a war aim was disputed, and public discussion
on the subject was wanted to be curbed right from the very beginning of
the war. Yet, almost until the end of the occupation, a policy was implemented in the occupied territory, the purpose of which was to
prepare the region for annexation to Finland and the realization of
Greater Finland, says historian Liisa Vuonokari-Bomström .

Finland and Adolf Hitler's Germany attacked the Soviet Union in the
summer of 1941. For Finland, this marked the start of the Continuation War.

The rapidly advancing Finnish army captured a large part of Soviet
Karelia. In October 1941, Finnish troops marched on the largest
population center in the region, Petrozavodsk. The city was renamed Oänislinna. It would become the capital of Finnish East Karelia.

In mid-July 1941, CGE Mannerheim issued an order to establish a
provisional military administration in East Karelia. He had written
about the freedom of Karelia and the now shrinking presence of a greater Finland.

– The military administration had to ensure the launch and continuation
of civilian life in East Karelia and at the same time prepare for the
region to be as easy as possible to later be incorporated into Finland.
The administration's activities were ideologically based on the idea
of ​​Greater Finland cherished by tribal activists.

This is what Vuonokari-Bomström says in her recently published doctoral dissertation “The East Karelian War Booty Archive as a Tool of the Occupation Administration and the Builder of Greater Finland 1941–1944”.

– The idea of ​​the realization of Greater Finland was completely dependent on Germany's military success and the fact that the Third
Reich was seeking living space in the East. In practice, the connection
to Germany was visible, for example, in the plan to transfer all persons defined as non-nationals from the occupied territory to other parts of
the Soviet Union conquered by the Germans, Vuonokari-Bomström says in a telephone interview with Yle.

The plan could not be implemented because Germany's war fortunes turned around at the latest in the great Battle of Stalingrad, which ended in
early February 1943.

“The intention was to carry out ethnic cleansing”

The idea of ​​Greater Finland was based on the idea that there was an East Karelia that was historically, culturally and geographically part
of the same entity as Finland.

The Finnish military administration strongly questioned the ideology and methods of the Soviet regime.

Finland divided the civilian population of East Karelia by nationality
and isolated a large part of the Russians in camps, which were called concentration camps until 1943. The military administration's division
into "national" and "non-national" local residents profoundly influenced
all its activities. Presumed ancestry and ethnic purity became the most important determining factor.

– Even those who were released as non-citizens were kept separate from those who were defined as nationals. People defined as non-citizens were given smaller food rations, paid lower wages, and their children were
not given the opportunity to attend school.

Only those defined as nationals were intended to remain in East Karelia
after it was annexed to Finland.

– The intention was to carry out ethnic cleansing in East Karelia, which was occupied by Finland. It was not carried out, but it was planned, Vuonokari-Bomström says.

In Finland, there has been little public discussion about Finland's role
as an occupier, the researcher says. According to her, this was
reflected in confusion when Russia used the occupation period as a tool
for its historical politics and accused Finland of genocide.

– In order to address the propaganda use of history, researched
information is needed as a basis for discussion. It is precisely the polyphonic, research-based exchange of views that distinguishes Finland
from Russia today. The strength of Finnish historical discussion is that
we can also address mistakes made in the past.

Russia last released a series of new archival documents in April 2020, concerning events in eastern Karelia during the Continuation War and conditions in camps run by the Finnish army. Shortly after, the
country's Investigative Committee announced that it would begin
investigating the alleged mass murder of civilians in Karelia by Finns.

There were people in the occupation government who harbored racist anti- Russian hatred. It was specifically aimed at ethnic Russians, not so
much at the structures of the government. The entire nation was to be
hated based on its innate, inevitably emerging characteristics, the researcher says.

– However, anti-Russian sentiment was not an officially defined issue in the same way as, for example, the status of Jews in National Socialist Germany.

In the future, in a Finnish East Karelia, Russianness would have been a
thing left in the history of the region.

– People defined as national were instilled, both directly and
indirectly, with the idea that they were inherently privileged because
of their nationality. On the other hand, they were expected to detach themselves from anything that could be defined as Russian influence in
local culture, Vuonokari-Bomström's doctoral dissertation states.
A group of military pilots stand in front of an airplane, studying a map.

Uniformed officers of the occupation administration guarded the
concentration camps. There were six in Petrozavodsk during the
Continuation War, and there were also camps in several villages
elsewhere in Soviet Karelia. They were based on the fear that the
Russian population might participate in guerrilla warfare and
destruction behind the front lines.

Conditions in the concentration camps were “catastrophically bad” until the fall of 1942. In addition to the fact that prisoners were deprived
of their right to self-determination and freedom of movement, the camps
were extremely overcrowded, the hygiene situation was substandard, and
the food supply was inadequate.

– At least 17 percent of the concentration camp prisoners in the
occupied territory died, or more than 4,000 people, the historian says.

During the occupation, East Karelia had a maximum population of just
over 88,000 people. At its peak, the camps contained approximately
24,000 women, children and the elderly. The majority of civilians had
been evacuated from the path of the Finnish and Nazi German invasion,
while the male population served in the Red Army at the front.

At the Tehran Conference in late 1943, Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin
claimed that the behavior of the Finns in the territories they occupied
was as brutal as that of the Germans.

Conditions in the concentration camps in East Karelia began to gradually improve from the autumn of 1942 onwards. When information began to
emerge about the mass extermination of Jews, the more subtle term "deportation camp" was adopted in East Karelia.

For some Finns, the defeat of the Soviet Union still seemed inevitable
even in 1943 because it was the “right” solution. Or, as former
President PE Svinhufvud put it: all of world history would lose its
meaning if Germany did not win.

– The halting and eventual defeat of the German attack meant that many
of the actions planned by the Finns also failed to materialize: the
occupied territory was not officially annexed to Finland, and the
planned ethnic cleansing was not carried out.

The Soviet offensive on the Isthmus began on June 9, 1944. Work
continued in the Petrozavodsk War Booty Archive for a few days after
this. The last letter found in the materials related to normal routines
is dated June 16, 1944.

The Finnish army withdrew from Petrozavodsk and elsewhere in East
Karelia at the end of June 1944.

https://yle-fi.translate.goog/a/74-20144197? _x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

This is some weird self-flagellating shit from some leftist
researcher(s). This should make Putin happy.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 26/02/2025 2.26, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 25.2.2025 klo 20.10:

What is often overlooked in Finland's role in World War II is: Finland
was also an occupying power.

According to a recent study, the Finnish occupation administration in
East Karelia in 1941–1944 had one clear goal: the creation of Greater
Finland.

– Territorial expansion as a war aim was disputed, and public
discussion on the subject was wanted to be curbed right from the very
beginning of the war. Yet, almost until the end of the occupation, a
policy was implemented in the occupied territory, the purpose of which
was to prepare the region for annexation to Finland and the
realization of Greater Finland, says historian Liisa Vuonokari-Bomström . >>
Finland and Adolf Hitler's Germany attacked the Soviet Union in the
summer of 1941. For Finland, this marked the start of the Continuation
War.

The rapidly advancing Finnish army captured a large part of Soviet
Karelia. In October 1941, Finnish troops marched on the largest
population center in the region, Petrozavodsk. The city was renamed
Oänislinna. It would become the capital of Finnish East Karelia.

In mid-July 1941, CGE Mannerheim issued an order to establish a
provisional military administration in East Karelia. He had written
about the freedom of Karelia and the now shrinking presence of a
greater Finland.

– The military administration had to ensure the launch and
continuation of civilian life in East Karelia and at the same time
prepare for the region to be as easy as possible to later be
incorporated into Finland. The administration's activities were
ideologically based on the idea of ​​Greater Finland cherished by
tribal activists.

This is what Vuonokari-Bomström says in her recently published
doctoral dissertation “The East Karelian War Booty Archive as a Tool
of the Occupation Administration and the Builder of Greater Finland
1941–1944”.

– The idea of ​​the realization of Greater Finland was completely
dependent on Germany's military success and the fact that the Third
Reich was seeking living space in the East. In practice, the
connection to Germany was visible, for example, in the plan to
transfer all persons defined as non-nationals from the occupied
territory to other parts of the Soviet Union conquered by the Germans,
Vuonokari-Bomström says in a telephone interview with Yle.

The plan could not be implemented because Germany's war fortunes
turned around at the latest in the great Battle of Stalingrad, which
ended in early February 1943.

“The intention was to carry out ethnic cleansing”

The idea of ​​Greater Finland was based on the idea that there was an
East Karelia that was historically, culturally and geographically part
of the same entity as Finland.

The Finnish military administration strongly questioned the ideology
and methods of the Soviet regime.

Finland divided the civilian population of East Karelia by nationality
and isolated a large part of the Russians in camps, which were called
concentration camps until 1943. The military administration's division
into "national" and "non-national" local residents profoundly
influenced all its activities. Presumed ancestry and ethnic purity
became the most important determining factor.

– Even those who were released as non-citizens were kept separate from
those who were defined as nationals. People defined as non-citizens
were given smaller food rations, paid lower wages, and their children
were not given the opportunity to attend school.

Only those defined as nationals were intended to remain in East
Karelia after it was annexed to Finland.

– The intention was to carry out ethnic cleansing in East Karelia,
which was occupied by Finland. It was not carried out, but it was
planned, Vuonokari-Bomström says.

In Finland, there has been little public discussion about Finland's
role as an occupier, the researcher says. According to her, this was
reflected in confusion when Russia used the occupation period as a
tool for its historical politics and accused Finland of genocide.

– In order to address the propaganda use of history, researched
information is needed as a basis for discussion. It is precisely the
polyphonic, research-based exchange of views that distinguishes
Finland from Russia today. The strength of Finnish historical
discussion is that we can also address mistakes made in the past.

Russia last released a series of new archival documents in April 2020,
concerning events in eastern Karelia during the Continuation War and
conditions in camps run by the Finnish army. Shortly after, the
country's Investigative Committee announced that it would begin
investigating the alleged mass murder of civilians in Karelia by Finns.

There were people in the occupation government who harbored racist
anti- Russian hatred. It was specifically aimed at ethnic Russians,
not so much at the structures of the government. The entire nation was
to be hated based on its innate, inevitably emerging characteristics,
the researcher says.

– However, anti-Russian sentiment was not an officially defined issue
in the same way as, for example, the status of Jews in National
Socialist Germany.

In the future, in a Finnish East Karelia, Russianness would have been
a thing left in the history of the region.

– People defined as national were instilled, both directly and
indirectly, with the idea that they were inherently privileged because
of their nationality. On the other hand, they were expected to detach
themselves from anything that could be defined as Russian influence in
local culture, Vuonokari-Bomström's doctoral dissertation states.
A group of military pilots stand in front of an airplane, studying a map.

Uniformed officers of the occupation administration guarded the
concentration camps. There were six in Petrozavodsk during the
Continuation War, and there were also camps in several villages
elsewhere in Soviet Karelia. They were based on the fear that the
Russian population might participate in guerrilla warfare and
destruction behind the front lines.

Conditions in the concentration camps were “catastrophically bad”
until the fall of 1942. In addition to the fact that prisoners were
deprived of their right to self-determination and freedom of movement,
the camps were extremely overcrowded, the hygiene situation was
substandard, and the food supply was inadequate.

– At least 17 percent of the concentration camp prisoners in the
occupied territory died, or more than 4,000 people, the historian says.

During the occupation, East Karelia had a maximum population of just
over 88,000 people. At its peak, the camps contained approximately
24,000 women, children and the elderly. The majority of civilians had
been evacuated from the path of the Finnish and Nazi German invasion,
while the male population served in the Red Army at the front.

At the Tehran Conference in late 1943, Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin
claimed that the behavior of the Finns in the territories they
occupied was as brutal as that of the Germans.

Conditions in the concentration camps in East Karelia began to
gradually improve from the autumn of 1942 onwards. When information
began to emerge about the mass extermination of Jews, the more subtle
term "deportation camp" was adopted in East Karelia.

For some Finns, the defeat of the Soviet Union still seemed inevitable
even in 1943 because it was the “right” solution. Or, as former
President PE Svinhufvud put it: all of world history would lose its
meaning if Germany did not win.

– The halting and eventual defeat of the German attack meant that many
of the actions planned by the Finns also failed to materialize: the
occupied territory was not officially annexed to Finland, and the
planned ethnic cleansing was not carried out.

The Soviet offensive on the Isthmus began on June 9, 1944. Work
continued in the Petrozavodsk War Booty Archive for a few days after
this. The last letter found in the materials related to normal
routines is dated June 16, 1944.

The Finnish army withdrew from Petrozavodsk and elsewhere in East
Karelia at the end of June 1944.

https://yle-fi.translate.goog/a/74-20144197?
_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

This is some weird self-flagellating shit from some leftist
researcher(s).

"Truth leans to the left", as they say. None of this is news. Time for
you to get over it.

It's just the part of Finnish history that is bleeped over in schools.
Maybe the schools don't want to leave you with the impression that
"transfer camps" are in your blood.

This should make Putin happy.

Ok ok. The P-word.

--
“We need to acknowledge he let us down. He went down a path he shouldn’t have, and we shouldn’t have followed him. We shouldn’t have listened to him, and we can’t let that happen ever again”.
-- Nikki Haley

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2/26/2025 7:55 AM, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 26/02/2025 2.26, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 25.2.2025 klo 20.10:

[snip]

"Truth leans to the left", as they say.

[snip]

I would disagree with that saying.
--
---------------
Scall5

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 27/02/2025 1.36, Scall5 wrote:

On 2/26/2025 7:55 AM, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 26/02/2025 2.26, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 25.2.2025 klo 20.10:

[snip]

"Truth leans to the left", as they say.

[snip]

I would disagree with that saying.

Imma bystander.

--
“We need to acknowledge he let us down. He went down a path he shouldn’t have, and we shouldn’t have followed him. We shouldn’t have listened to him, and we can’t let that happen ever again”.
-- Nikki Haley

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)