Kalevi Kolttonen <[email protected]> wrote:

I just read today that Jannik Sinner failed
a doping test twice in March, 2024.

Here's a link:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/aug/20/jannik-sinner-cleared-of-wrongdoing-failed-anti-doping-tests-tennis

br,
KK

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Hello there!

I just read today that Jannik Sinner failed
a doping test twice in March, 2024. He got
away with it with the following reasoning:
They claimed Jannik had a wound in his
finger, and his physio put some stuff into
the wound to speed up the healing process.

Apparently this "stuff" contained some kind
of forbidden substance.

Is this credible?

It's not that I care much. I know almost
all of them use amphetamine or its derivatives
anyway. Plus many other advanced performance
enhancing drugs that cannot be detected in
doping tests.

br,
KK

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On 8/20/2024 11:59 AM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Kalevi Kolttonen <[email protected]> wrote:

I just read today that Jannik Sinner failed
a doping test twice in March, 2024.

Here's a link:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/aug/20/jannik-sinner-cleared-of-wrongdoing-failed-anti-doping-tests-tennis

br,
KK

There is a common denominator between Sinner and Simona Halep; coach
Darren Cahill.

Did either knowingly take a banned substance? I have no way of knowing.
I hope not because I like both players.
--
---------------
Scall5

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On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 16:26:13 -0000 (UTC), Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Hello there!

I just read today that Jannik Sinner failed a doping test twice in
March, 2024. He got away with it with the following reasoning: They
claimed Jannik had a wound in his finger, and his physio put some stuff
into the wound to speed up the healing process.

Apparently this "stuff" contained some kind of forbidden substance.

Is this credible?

It's not that I care much. I know almost all of them use amphetamine or
its derivatives anyway. Plus many other advanced performance enhancing
drugs that cannot be detected in doping tests.

br,
KK

if he didn't do anything wrong why does he lose his IW money and points?
the whole thing stinks. no wonder he was "injured" at wimbledon - it would
have been hugely embarrassing for the sport if he'd won. Kyrgios is not impressed.

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On 21/08/2024 4:59 pm, poster wrote:

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 16:26:13 -0000 (UTC), Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Hello there!

I just read today that Jannik Sinner failed a doping test twice in
March, 2024. He got away with it with the following reasoning: They
claimed Jannik had a wound in his finger, and his physio put some stuff
into the wound to speed up the healing process.

Apparently this "stuff" contained some kind of forbidden substance.

Is this credible?

It's not that I care much. I know almost all of them use amphetamine or
its derivatives anyway. Plus many other advanced performance enhancing
drugs that cannot be detected in doping tests.

br,
KK

if he didn't do anything wrong why does he lose his IW money and points?
the whole thing stinks. no wonder he was "injured" at wimbledon - it would have been hugely embarrassing for the sport if he'd won. Kyrgios is not impressed.

Because he had the illegal substance in his system and thus his
performance was enhanced. Not fair he keeps points and $ while
illegally enhanced. They are saying it's not his fault so that's the
extent of the punishment.

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poster <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 16:26:13 -0000 (UTC), Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:> Hello there!> > I just read today that Jannik Sinner failed a doping test twice in> March, 2024. He got away with it with the following reasoning: They> claimed Jannik had a wound in

his finger, and his physio put some stuff> into the wound to speed up the healing process.> > Apparently this "stuff" contained some kind of forbidden substance.> > Is this credible?> > It's not that I care much. I know almost all of them use amphetamine

its derivatives anyway. Plus many other advanced performance enhancing> drugs that cannot be detected in doping tests.> > br,> KKif he didn't do anything wrong why does he lose his IW money and points? the whole thing stinks. no wonder he was "

injured" at wimbledon - it would have been hugely embarrassing for the sport if he'd won. Kyrgios is not impressed.



What do you mean "he didn't do anything wrong"?

He was doped at Indian Wells, of course he's supposed to lose money and pts earned there.

But if it was not his fault, then it's ok for him to continue as if nothing had happened, you can't ban him going forward.





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On 21.8.2024 11.06, Whisper wrote:

On 21/08/2024 4:59 pm, poster wrote:

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 16:26:13 -0000 (UTC), Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Hello there!

I just read today that Jannik Sinner failed a doping test twice in
March, 2024. He got away with it with the following reasoning: They
claimed Jannik had a wound in his finger, and his physio put some stuff
into the wound to speed up the healing process.

Apparently this "stuff" contained some kind of forbidden substance.

Is this credible?

It's not that I care much. I know almost all of them use amphetamine or
its derivatives anyway. Plus many other advanced performance enhancing
drugs that cannot be detected in doping tests.

br,
KK

if he didn't do anything wrong why does he lose his IW money and points?
the whole thing stinks. no wonder he was "injured" at wimbledon - it
would
have been hugely embarrassing for the sport if he'd won. Kyrgios is not
impressed.

Because he had the illegal substance in his system and thus his
performance was enhanced.  Not fair he keeps points and $ while
illegally enhanced.  They are saying it's not his fault so that's the
extent of the punishment.

I'm with Kyrgios. They should do the old witch test. Toss him in the
river. If he survives, he's guilty. If not, he was not guilty.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

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PeteWasLucky <[email protected]> Wrote in message:

I am not even questioning their determination but I am questioning the special treatment and process that were given to Sinner.But if I would question the determination, then it's ridiculous to think that he failed doping tests twice in one month

because his trainer had a wound in his finger and he was using some cream or spray for it.I can't even think how they invented or came up with this story.-- ---



Why is it not possible?

Let's assume he's s clean, which isn't a hard thing to do. He seems honourable.

So in that scenario, he's not doping but his trainer or masseur uses some cream/spray and transfers illegal substance onto him, so he fails doping test and everyone's clueless, he knows he's not doping and not taking anything so they assume it's a false
test and change nothing.

So then he fails the test for the second time.

He loses money and pts but since it was not his fault, he isn't banned.



If we assume he's a doper and that's possible as well, is there anything to discuss? He did it, he got caught, but he tricked them by blaming on the trainer's hand wound.

End of story in that case as well.


--




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On 22/08/2024 6:16 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:

poster <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 16:26:13 -0000 (UTC), Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:> Hello there!> > I just read today that Jannik Sinner failed a doping test twice in> March, 2024. He got away with it with the following reasoning: They> claimed Jannik had a wound in

his finger, and his physio put some stuff> into the wound to speed up the healing process.> > Apparently this "stuff" contained some kind of forbidden substance.> > Is this credible?> > It's not that I care much. I know almost all of them use amphetamine

its derivatives anyway. Plus many other advanced performance enhancing> drugs that cannot be detected in doping tests.> > br,> KKif he didn't do anything wrong why does he lose his IW money and points? the whole thing stinks. no wonder he was "

injured" at wimbledon - it would have been hugely embarrassing for the sport if he'd won. Kyrgios is not impressed.

It stinks when they cover it up because it has to do with the
number one player in the world.

It would be very damaging to the game if the no.1 was proven doping. I
don't have a problem keeping it under wraps until they are certain, as
long as they resolved it quickly, like they did in this case. I think it
was handled very well. How much better could they have done? And don't
give me that crap about low ranked players not getting the same
treatment. They are expendable.

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On 22/08/2024 12:15 pm, Scall5 wrote:

On 8/21/2024 7:58 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:

PeteWasLucky <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

poster <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r> On Tue, 20 Aug 2024
16:26:13 -0000 (UTC), Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:> Hello there!> > I just
read today that Jannik Sinner failed a doping test twice in> March,
2024. He got away with it with the following reasoning: They> claimed
Jannik had a wound in his finger, and his physio put some stuff> into
the wound to speed up the healing process.> > Apparently this "stuff"
contained some kind of forbidden substance.> > Is this credible?> >
It's not that I care much. I know almost all of them use amphetamine

its derivatives anyway. Plus many other advanced performance

enhancing> drugs that cannot be detected in doping tests.> > br,>
KKif he didn't do anything wrong why does he lose his IW money and
points? the whole thing stinks. no wonder he was "injured" at
wimbledon - it would have been hugely embarrassing for the sport if
he'd won. Kyrgios is not impressed.It stinks when they cover it up
because it has to do with the number one player in the world.--
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No matter what, Sinner was treated very differently than all other
  players that were found to have some traces of illegal substance
  in their tests.
I don't think this matter is settled and closed now, I think there
  will be huge consequences to come.

Other current players are asking questions via X, so who knows how this
will pan out...

Nobody cares what Kyrgios and Shapavalov think : )

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 22.8.2024 14.37, Whisper wrote:

On 22/08/2024 1:05 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Scall5 <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

On 8/21/2024 7:58 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:> PeteWasLucky
<[email protected]> Wrote in message:r>> poster <[email protected]>
Wrote in message:r> On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 16:26:13 -0000 (UTC), Kalevi
Kolttonen wrote:> Hello there!> > I just read today that Jannik
Sinner failed a doping test twice in> March, 2024. He got away with
it with the following reasoning: They> claimed Jannik had a wound in
his finger, and his physio put some stuff> into the wound to speed up
the healing process.> > Apparently this "stuff" contained some kind
of forbidden substance.> > Is this credible?> > It's not that I care
much. I know almost all of them use amphetamine or> its derivatives
anyway. Plus many other advanced performance enhancing> drugs that
cannot be detected in doping tests.> > br,> KKif he didn't do
anything wrong why does he lose his IW money and points? the whole
thing stinks. no wonder he was "injured" at wimbledon - it would have
been hugely embarrassing for the sport if he'd won. Kyrgios is not
impressed.It stinks when they cover it up because it has to do with
the number one player in the world.-- ----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html> > No matter what, Sinner was treated very differently than all other>   players that were found to have some traces of illegal substance>   in their tests.> I don't think

this matter is settled and closed now, I think there>   will be huge consequences to come.Other current players are asking questions via X, so who knows how this will pan out...-- ---------------Scall5

I am not even questioning their determination but I am questioning the
special treatment and process that were given to Sinner.

If players want to get the same special treatment as Sinner then they
should get to no.1 and win a slam 1st no?

But if I would question the determination, then it's ridiculous to
think that he failed doping tests twice in one month because his
trainer had a wound in his finger and he was using some cream or

spray for it.

I can't even think how they invented or came up with this story.

It sounds sus, but could be true.  We don't know all the details yet.

It sounds like puffing but not inhaling. The river knows the truth.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

PeteWasLucky <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

Whisper <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r> On 22/08/2024 6:16 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:> poster <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r>> On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 16:26:13 -0000 (UTC), Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:> Hello there!> > I just read today that Jannik

Sinner failed a doping test twice in> March, 2024. He got away with it with the following reasoning: They> claimed Jannik had a wound in his finger, and his physio put some stuff> into the wound to speed up the healing process.> > Apparently this "stuff"
contained some kind of forbidden substance.> > Is this credible?> > It's not that I care much. I know almost all of them use amphetamine or> its derivatives anyway. Plus many other advanced performance enhancing> drugs that cannot be detected in doping
tests.> > br,> KKif he didn't do anything wrong why does he lose his IW money and points? the whole thing stinks. no wonder he was "injured" at wimbledon - it would have been hugely embarrassing for the sport if he'd won. Kyrgios is not impressed.> > It
stinks when they cover it up because it has to do with the> number one player in the world.It would be very damaging to the game if the no.1 was proven doping. I don't have a problem keeping it under wraps until they are certain, as long as they
resolved it quickly, like they did in this case. I think it was handled very well. How much better could they have done? And don't give me that crap about low ranked players not getting the same treatment. They are expendable.Oh you are very pissed, I
am sorry. The facts are he failed illegal drug testing and he won't have respect in the tour any more. Taking away his prize money and points isn't something they do for innocent people.-- ----Android NewsGroup Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.
amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html



What is it exactly that you want to see here?


--




----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 22/08/2024 11:24 pm, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Kalevi Kolttonen <[email protected]> wrote:

Is this credible?

A bit more info:

The amount of this substance in his body was
extremely small. About one billionth of a
gram.

br,
KK

I heard that, but this wouldn't completely excuse him as dopers cycle up
and down so could have been cycling down when tested.

My gut feeling is he didn't intentionally dope, just based on his
character and the way he gets on well with everybody. He seems to have a
lot of integrity - eg he could have eliminated Novak from last WTF by intentionally losing to him in round robin. He didn't do that and Novak
went on to win. Not many players would have done that. If he's a doper hellbent on winning at all costs then surely he would have thrown that
match v Novak?

On the flipside we all know he has a physical weakness in long matches
so has a motive to dope. He may figure most players are doping by
various means and he also needs to level the playing field?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Kalevi Kolttonen <[email protected]> wrote:

Is this credible?

A bit more info:

The amount of this substance in his body was
extremely small. About one billionth of a
gram.

br,
KK

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Whisper <[email protected]> wrote:

Dopers are ahead of the testers, takes them years to catch up and put
new drugs on the banned list.

Exactly. Lots of chemists with very bright minds are
constantly working on new design drugs that help
athletes perform better. Access to these drugs is
expensive, but the best athletes can afford it and
they know the price paid will be worth it. Using
these drugs enhances their ability to win matches.

Because the undetectable design drugs are available, I
am puzzled why Sinner would use a traditional
substance that can be detected. After all, he is
a wealthy multimillionare who could afford to buy
the newest design drugs. It seems crazy, right?

So maybe the silly defence story is true after all?

I just cannot tell. Anyway, I am sure Sinner uses
*some* performance enhancing drugs just like all
the best professionals do. Nothing we can do about
it, so let's just enjoy the great shows that they
give us to watch.

br,
KK

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

PeteWasLucky <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

*skriptis <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r> PeteWasLucky <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r> Whisper <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r> On 22/08/2024 6:16 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:> poster <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r>>

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 16:26:13 -0000 (UTC), Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:> Hello there!> > I just read today that Jannik Sinner failed a doping test twice in> March, 2024. He got away with it with the following reasoning: They> claimed Jannik had a wound in his
finger, and his physio put some stuff> into the wound to speed up the healing process.> > Apparently this "stuff" contained some kind of forbidden substance.> > Is this credible?> > It's not that I care much. I know almost all of them use amphetamine or>
its derivatives anyway. Plus many other advanced performance enhancing> drugs that cannot be detected in doping tests.> > br,> KKif he didn't do anything wrong why does he lose his IW money and points? the whole thing stinks. no wonder he was "injured"
at wimbledon - it would have been hugely embarrassing for the sport if he'd won. Kyrgios is not impressed.> > It stinks when they cover it up because it has to do with the> number one player in the world.It would be very damaging to the game if the no.
1 was proven doping. I don't have a problem keeping it under wraps until they are certain, as long as they resolved it quickly, like they did in this case. I think it was handled very well. How much better could they have done? And don't give me that
crap about low ranked players not getting the same treatment. They are expendable.Oh you are very pissed, I am sorry. The facts are he failed illegal drug testing and he won't have respect in the tour any more. Taking away his prize money and points isn'
t something they do for innocent people.-- ----Android NewsGroup Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.htmlWhat is it exactly that you want to see here?-- ----Android NewsGroup Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.
amazonaws.com/usenet/index.htmlAs court1 believed before, if all players dope then stop testing or treat all players the same.-- ----Android NewsGroup Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html



But everyone is treated the same, isn't it?

Sinner is caught, it's verified and made public.

So what's the issue?


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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

PeteWasLucky <[email protected]> Wrote in message:

How was he treated the same when he was allowed to keep playing every tournament after two failed tests?

I don't know the exact rules, and what is consequence of a second failed test, but in this case, second test was one week after the first one, I assume they're considered as a single case, they're testing same situation and verifying it?

It's not like he failed at Indian Wells and then at Cincinnati. So that's my take.


Secondly, you know the values can differ. You can have alcohol in your blood and be totally drunk and also you can eat a chocolate with rum and it will show the same thing ie you have alcohol.

If his levels are negligible and his explanation makes sense, and if his trainer was indeed using the cream/spray, what would you do?

Ban him for life?
A year?


I feel removing his money and pts for that tournament is appropriate action, nothing else.






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On 23/08/2024 3:06 am, Sawfish wrote:

On 8/22/24 7:11 AM, Whisper wrote:

On 22/08/2024 11:24 pm, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Kalevi Kolttonen <[email protected]> wrote:

Is this credible?

A bit more info:

The amount of this substance in his body was
extremely small. About one billionth of a
gram.

br,
KK

I heard that, but this wouldn't completely excuse him as dopers cycle
up and down so could have been cycling down when tested.

My gut feeling is he didn't intentionally dope, just based on his
character and the way he gets on well with everybody. He seems to have
a lot of integrity - eg he could have eliminated Novak from last WTF
by intentionally losing to him in round robin.  He didn't do that and
Novak went on to win.  Not many players would have done that. If he's
a doper hellbent on winning at all costs then surely he would have
thrown that match v Novak?

On the flipside we all know he has a physical weakness in long matches
so has a motive to dope.

Per this, Monfils might also be included, so far as significant
motivation. In former years, Sampras, as well.

Sampras not likely as he played a style not conducive with long drawn
out rallies. I'm guessing Sampras played the quickest matches of all
the greats on average.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 16:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Kalevi Kolttonen <[email protected]> wrote:

I just read today that Jannik Sinner failed a doping test twice in
March, 2024.

Here's a link:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/aug/20/jannik-sinner-

cleared-of-wrongdoing-failed-anti-doping-tests-tennis

br,
KK

Everyone deserves a second chance

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 23/08/2024 4:21 pm, *skriptis wrote:

PeteWasLucky <[email protected]> Wrote in message:

How was he treated the same when he was allowed to keep playing every tournament after two failed tests?

I don't know the exact rules, and what is consequence of a second failed test, but in this case, second test was one week after the first one, I assume they're considered as a single case, they're testing same situation and verifying it?

It's not like he failed at Indian Wells and then at Cincinnati. So that's my take.

Secondly, you know the values can differ. You can have alcohol in your blood and be totally drunk and also you can eat a chocolate with rum and it will show the same thing ie you have alcohol.

If his levels are negligible and his explanation makes sense, and if his trainer was indeed using the cream/spray, what would you do?

Ban him for life?
A year?

I feel removing his money and pts for that tournament is appropriate action, nothing else.

I guess the only issue was what if he went on to win slams and was legit juicing? I think they had enough doubt there to conclude it wasn't intentional, eg the very small levels detected fit the story, so allowed
him him to play on as he wasn't going to be convicted in the end based
on evidence.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Whisper <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

On 23/08/2024 12:59 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Whisper <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r>> On 22/08/2024 11:24 pm, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:> Kalevi Kolttonen <[email protected]> wrote:>> Is this credible?> > A bit more info:> > The amount of

this substance in his body was> extremely small. About one billionth of a> gram.> > br,> KKI heard that, but this wouldn't completely excuse him as dopers cycle up and down so could have been cycling down when tested.My gut feeling is he didn't
intentionally dope, just based on his character and the way he gets on well with everybody. He seems to have a lot of integrity - eg he could have eliminated Novak from last WTF by intentionally losing to him in round robin. He didn't do that and Novak
went on to win. Not many players would have done that. If he's a doper hellbent on winning at all costs then surely he would have thrown that match v Novak?On the flipside we all know he has a physical weakness in long matches so has a motive to dope.
He may figure most players are doping by various means and he also needs to level the playing field?> > His character? What about Sharapova, Halep, Hingis and others?> They were sob?Maybe it was unfair what happened to them, maybe Sinner has better
lawyers etc? But then again those players were almost washed up and done winning slams when they got caught, while Sinner is at the top of the game. That's a big factor in seeing this process fast tracked as the costs are more significant. Are you
saying they shouldn't try and improve the process?



Sharapova was very interesting case.

You can't say she's a fraud, she was using same substance for years, only got screwed because her team was not careful enough and not realising the substance became illegal following January 1.

So it's negligence. However as much as I don't see her as a fraud, she's basically a doper as she was using stuff that was later put on a banned list.

So that fits into the theory, "they all dope" and by that, I assume best players are ahead of the curve, using stuff that no one has heard of.

That's how they dope, as proven by Sharapova.


Or they get some exemptions. The same year Sharapova was caught, Serena was given exemption to use some otherwise illegal stuff for the purpose of "healing" or whatever.


So they dope in two ways, using unknown stuff or finding legal loopholes to use banned stuff.

However I honestly doubt that any top ranked player would resort to using a well known banned substance. That's simply low IQ.

It's like a robbing a bank vs committing multi billion financial fraud. Would Trump, Musk or Soros ever rob a bank or would they do financial fraud?







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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

jdeluise <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

*skriptis <[email protected]> writes:> PeteWasLucky <[email protected]> Wrote in message:>> How was he treated the same when he was allowed to keep playing >> every tournament after two failed tests?>>>> I don't know the exact rules, and what

is consequence of a > second failed test, but in this case, second test was one week > after the first one, I assume they're considered as a single > case, they're testing same situation and verifying it?>> It's not like he failed at Indian Wells and
then at > Cincinnati. So that's my take.>>> Secondly, you know the values can differ. You can have alcohol > in your blood and be totally drunk and also you can eat a > chocolate with rum and it will show the same thing ie you have > alcohol.>> If his
levels are negligible and his explanation makes sense, > and if his trainer was indeed using the cream/spray, what would > you do?>> Ban him for life?> A year?>>> I feel removing his money and pts for that tournament is > appropriate action, nothing else.
He also loses respect and fans, that could translate to sponsorship money. However, it feels to me that he's getting special treatment. I think tennis is struggling right now, the greats of the era are finally retiring or getting too old to win. I also
feel pickleball is stealing away viewers. They probably don't want a big scandal but it sure stinks of elitism.


I just can't understand pickleball being such a hit?

If it was touch tennis I'd totally understand, I am in love with touch tennis.



Pickleball is kinda a huge table tennis or some kind of mini real tennis?

https://youtu.be/aRRy0kpiP0s?si=NO3hknTzwPaVUOBL



Meanwhile touch tennis is small lawn tennis indeed. Playing this, everyone can feel like a pro playing tennis, I think it's amazing.


https://youtu.be/i7wv_EOivIU?si=8Yew8hTcBUW2dx7Z





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jdeluise <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

*skriptis <[email protected]> writes:>>> I just can't understand pickleball being such a hit?Yeah, my initial impression is that it's a glorified "pee-wee tennis" (a game they teach very small children). Let's be honest, tennis' popularity is

probably held back by its unusual scoring system. I think it intimidates newbies, and it also leads to interminable matches based mostly on endurance rather than skill. I'm not suggesting they change tennis, but I feel like alternative racket sports
with scoring systems that are more engaging and friendly to low attention span viewers are going to gain in popularity faster.



I don't think it's the scoring system.

If it was you could say that about chess or American football or baseball too. I have no idea how do the last two go.

If you find the sport interesting you learn the scoring system.

Some people simply don't like and don't enjoy racquet sports or individual sports so they have 0 interest in tennis or its variants.




But in this thread I was hoping to compare pickleball to touch tennis.

It's such a different vibe.

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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In article <vad3fo$7j3$[email protected]>,
*skriptis <[email protected]> wrote:

-=-=-=-=-=-

jdeluise <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

*skriptis <[email protected]> writes:>>> I just can't understand pickleball being such a hit?Yeah, my

initial impression is that it's a glorified "pee-wee tennis" (a game they teach very small children). Let's be
honest, tennis' popularity is probably held back by its unusual scoring system. I think it intimidates newbies,
and it also leads to interminable matches based mostly on endurance rather than skill. I'm not suggesting they
change tennis, but I feel like alternative racket sports with scoring systems that are more engaging and
friendly to low attention span viewers are going to gain in popularity faster.

I don't think it's the scoring system.

If it was you could say that about chess or American football or baseball too. I have no idea how do the last two go.

If you find the sport interesting you learn the scoring system.

Some people simply don't like and don't enjoy racquet sports or individual sports so they have 0 interest in
tennis or its variants.

But in this thread I was hoping to compare pickleball to touch tennis.

It's such a different vibe.

I don't know touch tennis or pickleball very well. Do they compare to table tennis at all?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Whisper kirjoitti 22.8.2024 klo 16.59:

1 millionth of a gram

Is that what was left in blood, what was in blood sample or amount which
was taken orginally? Also, what was the substance?

Anyone can reply.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

[email protected] (Kalevi Kolttonen) Wrote in message:r

TT <[email protected]> wrote:> Whisper kirjoitti 22.8.2024 klo 16.59:>> 1 millionth of a gram> > Is that what was left in blood, what was in blood sample or amount which > was taken orginally? Also, what was the substance?> > Anyone can reply.1) According to

what I read, it was not 1 *millionth* of a gram but 1 *billionth* of a gram.2) According to my understanding, that was what was left in the blood at the time of testing3) clostebol was the banned substance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostebol4)
If I remember right, I read that 5 other Italian tennis players have been caught using clostebolbr,KK




Clostebol acetate ointment has ophthalmological and dermatological use. In some countries, such as Italy, it is available without a prescription as a topical cream or spray for the treatment of skin wounds such as abrasions, erosions, fissures and burns.
In Italy, it is sold as a spray and cream, with the brand name Trofodermin, containing a combination of clostebol acetate and neomycin.




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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

TT <[email protected]> wrote:

Whisper kirjoitti 22.8.2024 klo 16.59:

1 millionth of a gram

Is that what was left in blood, what was in blood sample or amount which
was taken orginally? Also, what was the substance?

Anyone can reply.

1) According to what I read, it was not 1 *millionth* of a gram
but 1 *billionth* of a gram.

2) According to my understanding, that was what was left in the
blood at the time of testing

3) clostebol was the banned substance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostebol

4) If I remember right, I read that 5 other Italian tennis
players have been caught using clostebol

br,
KK

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 26.8.2024 22.55, jdeluise wrote:

[email protected] (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:

TT <[email protected]> wrote:

Whisper kirjoitti 22.8.2024 klo 16.59:

1 millionth of a gram

Is that what was left in blood, what was in blood sample or amount
which was taken orginally? Also, what was the substance?

Anyone can reply.

1) According to what I read, it was not 1 *millionth* of a gram
   but 1 *billionth* of a gram.

2) According to my understanding, that was what was left in the
   blood at the time of testing

3) clostebol was the banned substance
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostebol

4) If I remember right, I read that 5 other Italian tennis
   players have been caught using clostebol

br,
KK

Sinner lives up to his name at last!  For shame, Jannik, for shame...

I vill give him absolution.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

jdeluise <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

*skriptis <[email protected]> writes:> [email protected] (Kalevi Kolttonen) Wrote in message:r>> TT <[email protected]> wrote:> Whisper kirjoitti 22.8.2024 klo >> 16.59:>> 1 millionth of a gram> > Is that what was left in >> blood, what was in blood

sample or amount which > was taken >> orginally? Also, what was the substance?> > Anyone can reply.1) >> According to what I read, it was not 1 *millionth* of a gram >> but 1 *billionth* of a gram.2) According to my understanding, >> that was what was
left in the blood at the time of testing3) >> clostebol was the banned substance >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostebol4) If I remember right, >> I read that 5 other Italian tennis players have been caught >> using clostebolbr,KK>>>>> Clostebol
acetate ointment has ophthalmological and > dermatological use. In some countries, such as Italy, it is > available without a prescription as a topical cream or spray for > the treatment of skin wounds such as abrasions, erosions, > fissures and burns.
In Italy, it is sold as a spray and cream, > with the brand name Trofodermin, containing a combination of > clostebol acetate and neomycin.How hard is it to avoid using products like this that have the potential for false positives though? I would think
that would be a paramount concern for his team! And Sinner is no pauper...



People make mistakes, they go to drugstore in their country, buy creams, sprays, vitamins etc and board the plane.

They're not thinking about doping tests since they're not coping.


This whole case is boring imo.

The only complaint I have is that it wasn't made public at the very moment. What's the point of revealing everything 5 months later?

That's shady.

Not the case itself.
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On 27/08/2024 5:58 am, jdeluise wrote:

*skriptis <[email protected]> writes:

[email protected] (Kalevi Kolttonen) Wrote in message:r

TT <[email protected]> wrote:> Whisper kirjoitti 22.8.2024 klo 16.59:>> 1
millionth of a gram> > Is that what was left in blood, what was in
blood sample or amount which > was taken orginally? Also, what was
the substance?> > Anyone can reply.1) According to what I read, it
was not 1 *millionth* of a gram but 1 *billionth* of a gram.2)
According to my understanding, that was what was left in the   blood
at the time of testing3) clostebol was the banned substance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostebol4) If I remember right, I read
that 5 other Italian tennis   players have been caught using
clostebolbr,KK

Clostebol acetate ointment has ophthalmological and dermatological
use. In some countries, such as Italy, it is available without a
prescription as a topical cream or spray for the treatment of skin
wounds such as abrasions, erosions, fissures and burns. In Italy, it
is sold as a spray and cream, with the brand name Trofodermin,
containing a combination of clostebol acetate and neomycin.

How hard is it to avoid using products like this that have the potential
for false positives though?  I would think that would be a paramount
concern for his team!  And Sinner is no pauper...

Over the counter in Italy. lots of Italian athletes get caught as it's
widely available.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 27.8.2024 10.50, Whisper wrote:

On 27/08/2024 5:58 am, jdeluise wrote:

*skriptis <[email protected]> writes:

[email protected] (Kalevi Kolttonen) Wrote in message:r

TT <[email protected]> wrote:> Whisper kirjoitti 22.8.2024 klo 16.59:>> 1
millionth of a gram> > Is that what was left in blood, what was in
blood sample or amount which > was taken orginally? Also, what was
the substance?> > Anyone can reply.1) According to what I read, it
was not 1 *millionth* of a gram but 1 *billionth* of a gram.2)
According to my understanding, that was what was left in the   blood >>>> at the time of testing3) clostebol was the banned substance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostebol4) If I remember right, I
read that 5 other Italian tennis   players have been caught using
clostebolbr,KK

Clostebol acetate ointment has ophthalmological and dermatological
use. In some countries, such as Italy, it is available without a
prescription as a topical cream or spray for the treatment of skin
wounds such as abrasions, erosions, fissures and burns. In Italy, it
is sold as a spray and cream, with the brand name Trofodermin,
containing a combination of clostebol acetate and neomycin.

How hard is it to avoid using products like this that have the
potential for false positives though?  I would think that would be a
paramount concern for his team!  And Sinner is no pauper...

Over the counter in Italy.  lots of Italian athletes get caught as it's widely available.

They really shouldn't be getting caught. There's a doping warning on the
box.

https://preview.redd.it/trofodermin-boxes-have-a-helpful-anti-doping-label-that-v0-df9bb0s3pujd1.jpeg?auto=webp&s=fb0cae9df50c9d3dca00019956fb531bcbf3effa

Sinner's trainer should be able to read that too.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

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Kalevi Kolttonen kirjoitti 26.8.2024 klo 22.43:

TT <[email protected]> wrote:

Whisper kirjoitti 22.8.2024 klo 16.59:

1 millionth of a gram

Is that what was left in blood, what was in blood sample or amount which
was taken orginally? Also, what was the substance?

Anyone can reply.

1) According to what I read, it was not 1 *millionth* of a gram
but 1 *billionth* of a gram.

2) According to my understanding, that was what was left in the
blood at the time of testing

3) clostebol was the banned substance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostebol

4) If I remember right, I read that 5 other Italian tennis
players have been caught using clostebol

br,
KK

Ok. Thanks.

Also, contaminated by coach's hand who used it for a wound. BS

Sinner has been doping, which probably explains partly his good recent form.

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Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 26.8.2024 klo 23.12:

On 26.8.2024 23.06, *skriptis wrote:

jdeluise <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

*skriptis <[email protected]> writes:> [email protected]
(Kalevi Kolttonen) Wrote in message:r>> TT <[email protected]> wrote:>
Whisper kirjoitti 22.8.2024 klo >> 16.59:>> 1 millionth of a gram> >
Is that what was left in >> blood, what was in blood sample or amount
which > was taken >> orginally? Also, what was the substance?> >
Anyone can reply.1) >> According to what I read, it was not 1
*millionth* of a gram >> but 1 *billionth* of a gram.2) According to
my understanding, >> that was what was left in the   blood at the
time of testing3) >> clostebol was the banned substance >>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostebol4) If I remember right, >> I
read that 5 other Italian tennis   players have been caught >> using
clostebolbr,KK>>>>> Clostebol acetate ointment has ophthalmological
and > dermatological use. In some countries, such as Italy, it is >
available without a prescription as a topical cream or spray for >
the treatment of skin wounds such as abrasions, erosions, > fissures
and burns. In Italy, it is sold as a spray and cream, > with the
brand name Trofodermin, containing a combination of > clostebol
acetate and neomycin.How hard is it to avoid using products like this
that have the potential for false positives though?  I would think
that would be a paramount concern for his team!  And Sinner is no
pauper...

People make mistakes, they go to drugstore in their country, buy
creams, sprays, vitamins etc and board the plane.

They're not thinking about doping tests since they're not coping.

Some people do micro dosing, miscalculate, and get caught. Which one is Sinner? The river knows.

Some people go gluten free. Could be that too.

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jdeluise kirjoitti 26.8.2024 klo 22.55:

Sinner lives up to his name at last!

Hahaha... Good one.

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On 27.8.2024 13.43, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 27.8.2024 10.50, Whisper wrote:

On 27/08/2024 5:58 am, jdeluise wrote:

*skriptis <[email protected]> writes:

[email protected] (Kalevi Kolttonen) Wrote in message:r

TT <[email protected]> wrote:> Whisper kirjoitti 22.8.2024 klo 16.59:>> 1
millionth of a gram> > Is that what was left in blood, what was in
blood sample or amount which > was taken orginally? Also, what was
the substance?> > Anyone can reply.1) According to what I read, it
was not 1 *millionth* of a gram but 1 *billionth* of a gram.2)
According to my understanding, that was what was left in the
blood at the time of testing3) clostebol was the banned substance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostebol4) If I remember right, I
read that 5 other Italian tennis   players have been caught using
clostebolbr,KK

Clostebol acetate ointment has ophthalmological and dermatological
use. In some countries, such as Italy, it is available without a
prescription as a topical cream or spray for the treatment of skin
wounds such as abrasions, erosions, fissures and burns. In Italy, it
is sold as a spray and cream, with the brand name Trofodermin,
containing a combination of clostebol acetate and neomycin.

How hard is it to avoid using products like this that have the
potential for false positives though?  I would think that would be a
paramount concern for his team!  And Sinner is no pauper...

Over the counter in Italy.  lots of Italian athletes get caught as
it's widely available.

They really shouldn't be getting caught. There's a doping warning on the
box.

https://preview.redd.it/trofodermin-boxes-have-a-helpful-anti-doping-label-that-v0-df9bb0s3pujd1.jpeg?auto=webp&s=fb0cae9df50c9d3dca00019956fb531bcbf3effa

Sinner's trainer should be able to read that too.

Looks like this cutting of fingers story has been used a few times already.

https://honestsport.substack.com/p/italys-clostebol-doping-crisis-across

Courtsie would love the chihuahua tale.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

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