This was a hell of a match and I'm surprised that it's not much of a
topic today.

I think they both showed real toughness, but will probably find winning multiple majors--or maybe even one-- a tough road--but for different
reasons.

For Zverev, I think his engagement varies over the course of a long
match. It is as if he gets "unhungry" at times. So for portions of a
hard match, he's sorta flaccid at times.

I sensed no lack of consistent hunger in Sinner--and he was able to
"keep it up", so to speak--but what I did see consistently is an odd
flaw that is tough to characterize. He unnecessarily blows put-aways.

He did that quite a lot. He worked the point until he had a relatively
routine killshot, and then missed this killshot.

Normally  I'd say he rushed it, but this is not actually what I saw. I
*think* what I saw was a slight degree of rushing the shot, combined
with an attempt to hit it just a little bit too fine. It was not trying
to hit ridiculous shots in the manner of Sabelenka, he was just a little off--3% over-cooked, maybe?

Just enough to rob himself of points he should rightfully have owned,
and give them, gratis, to his opponent.

I think he is noticeably less robust than Zverev, but not decisively so,
and he attempts to get by on determination--which he does in an
admirable way.

I don't know what it'll take to get past this tendency to fail to close
out a point that he basically owns tactically, though.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. But give a man a boat,
a case of beer, and a few sticks of dynamite..." -- Sawfish

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Sawfish <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

This was a hell of a match and I'm surprised that it's not much of a topic today.I think they both showed real toughness, but will probably find winning multiple majors--or maybe even one-- a tough road--but for different reasons.For Zverev, I think

his engagement varies over the course of a long match. It is as if he gets "unhungry" at times. So for portions of a hard match, he's sorta flaccid at times.I sensed no lack of consistent hunger in Sinner--and he was able to "keep it up", so to speak--
but what I did see consistently is an odd flaw that is tough to characterize. He unnecessarily blows put-aways.He did that quite a lot. He worked the point until he had a relatively routine killshot, and then missed this killshot.Normally I'd say he
rushed it, but this is not actually what I saw. I *think* what I saw was a slight degree of rushing the shot, combined with an attempt to hit it just a little bit too fine. It was not trying to hit ridiculous shots in the manner of Sabelenka, he was just
a little off--3% over-cooked, maybe?Just enough to rob himself of points he should rightfully have owned, and give them, gratis, to his opponent.I think he is noticeably less robust than Zverev, but not decisively so, and he attempts to get by on
determination--which he does in an admirable way.I don't know what it'll take to get past this tendency to fail to close out a point that he basically owns tactically, though.-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. But give a man a boat,a case of beer, and a few sticks of dynamite..." -- Sawfish




I haven't seen it but I'm suspicious of matches that go 5 sets and none of the sets end with 7:5 or 7:6.


Stuff like 64 36 62 46 63 is often simply a bashing contest with momentum shifts.




--




----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

T24gOS81LzIzIDExOjE4IEFNLCAqc2tyaXB0aXMgd3JvdGU6DQo+IFNhd2Zpc2ggPHNhd2Zp c2g2NjZAZ21haWwuY29tPiBXcm90ZSBpbiBtZXNzYWdlOnINCj4+IFRoaXMgd2FzIGEgaGVs bCBvZiBhIG1hdGNoIGFuZCBJJ20gc3VycHJpc2VkIHRoYXQgaXQncyBub3QgbXVjaCBvZiBh IHRvcGljIHRvZGF5LkkgdGhpbmsgdGhleSBib3RoIHNob3dlZCByZWFsIHRvdWdobmVzcywg YnV0IHdpbGwgcHJvYmFibHkgZmluZCB3aW5uaW5nIG11bHRpcGxlIG1ham9ycy0tb3IgbWF5 YmUgZXZlbiBvbmUtLSBhIHRvdWdoIHJvYWQtLWJ1dCBmb3IgZGlmZmVyZW50IHJlYXNvbnMu Rm9yIFp2ZXJldiwgSSB0aGluayBoaXMgZW5nYWdlbWVudCB2YXJpZXMgb3ZlciB0aGUgY291 cnNlIG9mIGEgbG9uZyBtYXRjaC4gSXQgaXMgYXMgaWYgaGUgZ2V0cyAidW5odW5ncnkiIGF0 IHRpbWVzLiBTbyBmb3IgcG9ydGlvbnMgb2YgYSBoYXJkIG1hdGNoLCBoZSdzIHNvcnRhIGZs YWNjaWQgYXQgdGltZXMuSSBzZW5zZWQgbm8gbGFjayBvZiBjb25zaXN0ZW50IGh1bmdlciBp biBTaW5uZXItLWFuZCBoZSB3YXMgYWJsZSB0byAia2VlcCBpdCB1cCIsIHNvIHRvIHNwZWFr LS1idXQgd2hhdCBJIGRpZCBzZWUgY29uc2lzdGVudGx5IGlzIGFuIG9kZCBmbGF3IHRoYXQg aXMgdG91Z2ggdG8gY2hhcmFjdGVyaXplLiBIZSB1bm5lY2Vzc2FyaWx5IGJsb3dzIHB1dC1h d2F5cy5IZSBkaWQgdGhhdCBxdWl0ZSBhIGxvdC4gSGUgd29ya2VkIHRoZSBwb2ludCB1bnRp bCBoZSBoYWQgYSByZWxhdGl2ZWx5IHJvdXRpbmUga2lsbHNob3QsIGFuZCB0aGVuIG1pc3Nl ZCB0aGlzIGtpbGxzaG90Lk5vcm1hbGx5ICBJJ2Qgc2F5IGhlIHJ1c2hlZCBpdCwgYnV0IHRo aXMgaXMgbm90IGFjdHVhbGx5IHdoYXQgSSBzYXcuIEkgKnRoaW5rKiB3aGF0IEkgc2F3IHdh cyBhIHNsaWdodCBkZWdyZWUgb2YgcnVzaGluZyB0aGUgc2hvdCwgY29tYmluZWQgd2l0aCBh biBhdHRlbXB0IHRvIGhpdCBpdCBqdXN0IGEgbGl0dGxlIGJpdCB0b28gZmluZS4gSXQgd2Fz IG5vdCB0cnlpbmcgdG8gaGl0IHJpZGljdWxvdXMgc2hvdHMgaW4gdGhlIG1hbm5lciBvZiBT YWJlbGVua2EsIGhlIHdhcyBqdXN0IGEgbGl0dGxlIG9mZi0tMyUgb3Zlci1jb29rZWQsIG1h eWJlP0p1c3QgZW5vdWdoIHRvIHJvYiBoaW1zZWxmIG9mIHBvaW50cyBoZSBzaG91bGQgcmln aHRmdWxseSBoYXZlIG93bmVkLCBhbmQgZ2l2ZSB0aGVtLCBncmF0aXMsIHRvIGhpcyBvcHBv bmVudC5JIHRoaW5rIGhlIGlzIG5vdGljZWFibHkgbGVzcyByb2J1c3QgdGhhbiBadmVyZXYs IGJ1dCBub3QgZGVjaXNpdmVseSBzbywgYW5kIGhlIGF0dGVtcHRzIHRvIGdldCBieSBvbiBk ZXRlcm1pbmF0aW9uLS13aGljaCBoZSBkb2VzIGluIGFuIGFkbWlyYWJsZSB3YXkuSSBkb24n dCBrbm93IHdoYXQgaXQnbGwgdGFrZSB0byBnZXQgcGFzdCB0aGlzIHRlbmRlbmN5IHRvIGZh aWwgdG8gY2xvc2Ugb3V0IGEgcG9pbnQgdGhhdCBoZSBiYXNpY2FsbHkgb3ducyB0YWN0aWNh bGx5LCB0aG91Z2guLS0gfn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+ fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+IkdpdmUgYSBtYW4gYSBmaXNo LCBhbmQgeW91IGZlZWQgaGltIGZvciBhIGRheS4gIEJ1dCBnaXZlIGEgbWFuIGEgYm9hdCxh IGNhc2Ugb2YgYmVlciwgYW5kIGEgZmV3IHN0aWNrcyBvZiBkeW5hbWl0ZS4uLiIgIC0tIFNh d2Zpc2gNCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4gSSBoYXZlbid0IHNlZW4gaXQgYnV0IEknbSBzdXNwaWNpb3Vz IG9mIG1hdGNoZXMgdGhhdCBnbyA1IHNldHMgYW5kIG5vbmUgb2YgdGhlIHNldHMgZW5kIHdp dGggNzo1IG9yIDc6Ni4NCj4NCj4NCj4gU3R1ZmYgbGlrZSA2NCAzNiA2MiA0NiA2MyBpcyBv ZnRlbiBzaW1wbHkgYSBiYXNoaW5nIGNvbnRlc3Qgd2l0aCBtb21lbnR1bSBzaGlmdHMuDQoN Clllcy4gSXQgd2FzLiBNaW5pbWFsIGRyb3Agc2hvdHMuIFNvbWUgYXR0ZW1wdHMgdG8gdGFr ZSB0aGUgbmV0LiBNaW5pbWFsIA0KY2hhbmdlcyBvZiBwYWNlL3NwaW4uDQoNClN0aWxsLCBp dCB3YXMgYSB2ZXJ5IHRvdWdoLCBnb29kIG1hdGNoIHRvIHdhdGNoLiBJJ2xsIHVzZSB0aGUg Y2xpY2hlIA0KaGVyZTogaXQgd2FzIGxpa2UgdHdvIHZlcnkgdG91Z2ggaGVhdnktaGl0dGlu ZyBoZWF2eXdlaWdodHMuIEl0IHdhcyBsaWtlIA0KdGhpcyBvbGQtdGltZSBtYXRjaCBJIHNh dyBvbiBZb3VUdWJlIGJldHdlZW4gRXJuaWUgU2hhdmVycyBhbmQgUm9uIEx5bGUuDQoNClNv IEkgcmVhbGx5IGFkbWlyZWQgdGhlIHdheSB0aGV5IGh1bmcgaW4gdGhlcmUuIEJ1dCB0aGVp ciBmbGF3cyBzaG93ZWQuDQoNCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4NCg0KLS0gDQp+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+ fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+ fn5+fn4NCiIuLi5hbmQgeW91ciBsaXR0bGUgZG9nLCB0b28hIg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLS1TYXdmaXNoDQoNCg==

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 6/09/2023 4:24 am, Sawfish wrote:

On 9/5/23 11:18 AM, *skriptis wrote:

Sawfish <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

This was a hell of a match and I'm surprised that it's not much of a
topic today.I think they both showed real toughness, but will

Stuff like 64 36 62 46 63 is often simply a bashing contest with
momentum shifts.

Yes. It was. Minimal drop shots. Some attempts to take the net. Minimal changes of pace/spin.

Still, it was a very tough, good match to watch. I'll use the cliche
here: it was like two very tough heavy-hitting heavyweights. It was like
this old-time match I saw on YouTube between Ernie Shavers and Ron Lyle.

So I really admired the way they hung in there. But their flaws showed.

Sinner was crying at the end, and for good reason. It's not that he
lost this particular match that he was fave on paper, just that he seems
to lose all of these matches that he should be starting to win and move
up to elite slam level champ. He needs to sack Cahill and see if he can
find a better fit. Gilbert would prob help him a lot.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 8:43:03 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:

On 6/09/2023 4:24 am, Sawfish wrote:

On 9/5/23 11:18 AM, *skriptis wrote:

Sawfish <[email protected]> Wrote in message:r

This was a hell of a match and I'm surprised that it's not much of a
topic today.I think they both showed real toughness, but will

Stuff like 64 36 62 46 63 is often simply a bashing contest with
momentum shifts.

Yes. It was. Minimal drop shots. Some attempts to take the net. Minimal changes of pace/spin.

Still, it was a very tough, good match to watch. I'll use the cliche
here: it was like two very tough heavy-hitting heavyweights. It was like this old-time match I saw on YouTube between Ernie Shavers and Ron Lyle.

So I really admired the way they hung in there. But their flaws showed.

Sinner was crying at the end, and for good reason. It's not that he
lost this particular match that he was fave on paper, just that he seems
to lose all of these matches that he should be starting to win and move
up to elite slam level champ. He needs to sack Cahill and see if he can
find a better fit. Gilbert would prob help him a lot.

Agree, Cahill is just a no talent opportunist, BG would help a lot.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)