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  • Kicker Bundesliga Ratings Winter 2022/23

    From Werner Pichler@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 18 05:15:34 2023
    Disappointing World Cup Edition


    In brackets the player's position in the previous ranking (Summer 2022)


    --

    Goalkeepers


    Weltklasse (World Class)

    None


    Internationale Klasse (International Class)

    1. Gregor Kobel / SUI / Borussia Dortmund (IK-4)
    2. Yann Sommer / SUI / Mönchengladbach (IK-3)
    3. Kevin Trapp / GER / Eintracht Frankfurt (IK-1)
    4. Marvin Schwäbe / GER / 1. FC Köln (NK-5)
    5. Koen Casteels / BEL / VfL Wolfsburg (-)
    6. Mark Flekken / NED / SC Freiburg (-)
    7. Manuel Neuer / GER / Bayern München (IK-2)

    Nationale Klasse (National Class)

    8. Rafał Gikiewicz / POL / FC Augsburg (-)
    9. Janis Blaswich / GER / RB Leipzig (-)
    10. Frederik Rønnow / DEN / Union Berlin (-)
    11. Oliver Baumann / GER / Hoffenheim (-)


    Kicker write that they had a big debate about whether even to put Neuer into International Class.
    Freiburg's Mark Flekken has now gone from Unranked to International Class
    to Unranked to International Class.


    ___

    Central Defenders


    Weltklasse (World Class)

    none


    Internationale Klasse (International Class)

    1. Dayot Upamecano / FRA / Bayern München (-)
    2. Matthias Ginter / GER / SC Freiburg (-)


    Nationale Klasse (National Class)

    3. Lucas Hernández / FRA / Bayern München (-)
    4. Mats Hummels / GER / Borussia Dortmund (-)
    5. Matthijs de Ligt / NED / Bayern München (-)
    6. Kō Itakura / JAP / Mönchengladbach (-)
    7. Joško Gvardiol / CRO / RB Leipzig (NK-3)
    8. Abdou Diallo / SEN / RB Leipzig (-)
    9. Willi Orbán / HUN / RB Leipzig (IK-2)
    10. Ozan Kabak / TUR / Hoffenheim (-)
    11. Robin Knoche / GER / Union Berlin (-)
    12. Diogo Leite / POR / Union Berlin (-)
    13. Niklas Süle / GER / Borussia Dortmund (NK-6)
    14. Philipp Lienhart / AUT / SC Freiburg (NK-8)


    Almost complete turnover on this list. Bayern's French contingent back in Kicker's good graces thanks to the World Cup. Schlotterbeck has had a
    nightmare season so far.


    ___

    Fullbacks ('defensive laterals')


    Weltklasse (World Class)

    none


    Internationale Klasse (International Class)

    1. Alphonso Davies / CAN / Bayern München (-)
    2. Jeremie Frimpong / NED / Bayer Leverkusen (NK-8)
    3. Borna Sosa / CRO / VfB Stuttgart (NK-10)
    4. Ramy Bensebaini / ALG / Mönchengladbach (-)


    Nationale Klasse (National Class)

    5. Benjamin Pavard / FRA / Bayern München (-)
    6. Mohamed Simakan / FRA / RB Leipzig (NK-7 centr. def.)
    7. Mitchell Weiser / GER / Werder Bremen (-)
    8. Christian Günter / GER / SC Freiburg (NK-3)
    9. Jonas Hector / GER / 1. FC Köln (NK-2)
    10. Noussair Mazraoui / MAR / Bayern München (-)
    11. Lukas Kübler / GER / SC Freiburg (-)
    12. Julian Ryerson / NOR / Union Berlin (-)


    A healthy Davies back at the top. Previous #1 David Raum has struggled
    since his move to Leipzig and so has dropped off the list altogether.


    ___

    Defensive Midfielders


    Weltklasse (World Class)

    none


    Internationale Klasse (International Class)

    1. Jude Bellingham / ENG / Borussia Dortmund (NK-6)
    2. Joshua Kimmich / GER / Bayern München (NK-11)
    3. Leon Goretzka / GER / Bayern München (-)
    4. Sebastian Rode / GER / Eintracht Frankfurt (NK-5)
    5. Xaver Schlager / AUT / RB Leipzig (-)
    6. Wataru Endō / JAP / VfB Stuttgart (NK-13)
    7. Maximilian Arnold / GER / VfL Wolfsburg (-)


    Nationale Klasse (National Class)

    8. Ellyes Skhiri / TUN / 1. FC Köln (NK-14)
    9. Nicolas Höfler / GER / SC Freiburg (NK-12)
    10. Lucas Tousart / FRA / Hertha BSC (-)
    11. Rani Khedira / GER / Union Berlin (-)
    12. Djibril Sow / SUI / Eintracht Frankfurt (NK-4)
    13. Dominik Kohr / GER / FSV Mainz 05 (-)


    Bellingham was adjudged to be 'borderline World Class', but in typical
    Kicker fashion they chided him for being 'too exuberant'.

    Previous #1 Andrich a victim of (and protagonist in) Leverkusen's terrible season. Previous #2 Özcan has followed Schlotterbeck's path after
    transferring to Dortmund.


    ___

    Offensive Midfielders


    Weltklasse (World Class)

    None


    Internationale Klasse (International Class)

    1. Jamal Musiala / GER / Bayern München (NK-9 Def. MF)
    2. Daichi Kamada / JAP / Eintracht Frankfurt (NK-8)
    3. Mario Götze / GER / Eintracht Frankfurt (-)
    4. Jesper Lindstrøm / DEN / Eintracht Frankfurt (NK-13)


    Nationale Klasse (National Class)

    5. Thomas Müller / GER / Bayern München (NK-6)
    6. Dominik Szoboszlai / HUN / RB Leipzig (NK-9)
    7. Christoph Baumgartner / AUT / Hoffenheim (NK-11)
    8. Dejan Ljubičić / AUT / 1. FC Köln (NK-8 Wingers)
    9. Julian Brandt / GER / Borussia Dortmund (NK-12)
    10. Marco Reus / GER / Borussia Dortmund (NK-7)
    11. Yannick Gerhardt / GER / VfL Wolfsburg (-)


    Yes, three Eintracht players.


    ___

    Wingers ('offensive laterals')


    Weltklasse (World Class)

    none


    Internationale Klasse (International Class)

    1. Leroy Sané / GER / Bayern München (-)
    2. Vincenzo Grifo / ITA / SC Freiburg (NK-4)
    3. Serge Gnabry / GER / Bayern München (NK-9)
    4. Ritsu Dōan / JAP / SC Freiburg (-)
    5. Dodi Lukébakio / BEL / Hertha BSC (-)


    Nationale Klasse (National Class)

    6. Sadio Mané / SEN / Bayern München (-)
    7. Florian Kainz / AUT / 1. FC Köln (-)
    8. Jonas Hofmann / GER / Mönchengladbach (NK-2 Off. MF)
    9. Moussa Diaby / FRA / Bayer Leverkusen (IK-2)
    10. Alassane Pléa / FRA / Mönchengladbach (NK-5 Off. MF)
    11. Ermedin Demirović / BIH / FC Augsburg (-)


    Kingsley Coman has fallen off the list altogether, despite a World Cup Final ('just once in the starting XI, five times a substitute', Kicker harrumphs). Adeyemi also deservedly missing (told you so!)


    ___

    Strikers


    Weltklasse (World Class)

    none


    Internationale Klasse (International Class)

    1. Christopher Nkunku / FRA / RB Leipzig (IK-2)
    2. Randal Kolo Muani / FRA / Eintracht Frankfurt (-)
    3. Eric Maxim Choupo-Moting / CMR / Bayern München (-)
    4. Marcus Thuram / FRA / Mönchengladbach (-)
    5. Niclas Füllkrug / GER / Werder Bremen (-)
    6. Michael Gregoritsch / AUT / SC Freiburg (NK-7)


    Nationale Klasse (National Class)

    7. Sheraldo Becker / SUR / Union Berlin (NK-6)
    8. Youssoufa Moukoko / GER / Borussia Dortmund (-)
    9. André Silva / POR / RB Leipzig (NK-12)
    10. Timo Werner / GER / RB Leipzig (-)
    11. Mërgim Berisha / GER / FC Augsburg (-)
    12. Georginio Rutter / FRA / Hoffenheim (transferred to Leeds) (-)
    13. Karim Onisiwo / AUT / FSV Mainz 05 (NK-14)


    Lewandowski and Haaland are gone from the list (as are, for diametrically opposed reasons, Schick and Modeste), so it's logical to find Nkunku at the top. And Choupo-Moting. And Füllkrug. And Gregoritsch is International
    Class. Obviously.

    (OK, seriously, what the hell is this?)

    BTW quite happy to see Mërgim Berisha on this list. Always liked the guy, despite his somewhat lackadaisical attitude. And I kind of admire Onisiwo's consistence - he's now been ranked National Class #8-#12-#14-#13.


    ___

    Germans Abroad


    Top Leagues


    Weltklasse (World Class)

    none


    Internationale Klasse (International Class)

    Marc-André Ter Stegen / Barcelona (IK)
    Antonio Rüdiger / Real Madrid (IK)
    Toni Kroos / Real Madrid (IK)
    İlkay Gündoğan / Manchester City (IK)


    Nationale Klasse (National Class)

    Alexander Nübel / AS Monaco (NK)
    Armel Bella-Kotchap / Southampton (-)
    Pascal Groß / Brighton & Hove Albion (-)
    Kai Havertz / Chelsea (IK)

    Unsurprisingly, once again no World Class player either in the league or
    among the Germans Abroad.


    _

    Average Leagues


    Herausragend ('Excellent')

    Lars Unnerstall / Twente (H)
    Lukas Görtler / FC St. Gallen (A)
    Hany Mukhtar / Nashville SC (A)
    Khaled Narey / PAOK (-)


    Auffällig ('Conspicuous')

    Christian Früchtl / Austria Wien (-)
    Lennart Moser / KAS Eupen (-)
    Marius Müller / FC Luzern (-)
    Yann Aurel Bisseck / AGF (-)
    Toni Leistner / VV St. Truiden (-)
    Jordan Torunarigha / KAA Gent (-)
    Kai Wagner / Philadelphia Union (A)
    Max Meyer / FC Luzern (-)
    Lukas Podolski / Górnik Zabrze (A)


    Yeah, I can run a filter on Transfermarkt for Germans, too.


    ___

    Ciao,
    Werner

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark@21:1/5 to Werner Pichler on Thu Jan 19 02:53:28 2023
    On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 1:15:36 PM UTC, Werner Pichler wrote:


    Offensive Midfielders

    Why do they say offensive midfielders, rather than attacking or attackive midfielders? What's offensive about them?

    Germans Abroad

    What about Sara Dabritz?

    Does international class sound about right?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From MH@21:1/5 to Mark on Thu Jan 19 17:22:01 2023
    On 2023-01-19 03:53, Mark wrote:
    On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 1:15:36 PM UTC, Werner Pichler wrote:


    Offensive Midfielders

    Why do they say offensive midfielders, rather than attacking or attackive midfielders? What's offensive about them?

    I believe the german designation is Mittelfeld Offensiv or Offensives Mittelfeld, and Werner has understandably chosen to translate that as
    offensive (which is widely used in north american sports - offensive
    ends, offensive tackles and so on - in that sense_)

    Germans Abroad

    What about Sara Dabritz?

    Does international class sound about right?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?B?TGzDqW8=?=@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 19 17:23:41 2023
    Em quinta-feira, 19 de janeiro de 2023 às 21:22:05 UTC-3, MH escreveu:
    On 2023-01-19 03:53, Mark wrote:
    On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 1:15:36 PM UTC, Werner Pichler wrote:


    Offensive Midfielders

    Why do they say offensive midfielders, rather than attacking or attackive midfielders? What's
    offensive about them?

    I believe the german designation is Mittelfeld Offensiv or Offensives Mittelfeld, and Werner has understandably chosen to translate that as offensive (which is widely used in north american sports - offensive
    ends, offensive tackles and so on - in that sense_)


    Both forms work in Portuguese (at least this side of the Atlantic): Meia Ofensivo or Meia Atacante.


    Best regards,
    Lléo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 20 00:21:25 2023
    On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 1:23:42 AM UTC, Lléo wrote:
    Em quinta-feira, 19 de janeiro de 2023 às 21:22:05 UTC-3, MH escreveu:
    On 2023-01-19 03:53, Mark wrote:
    On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 1:15:36 PM UTC, Werner Pichler wrote:


    Offensive Midfielders

    Why do they say offensive midfielders, rather than attacking or attackive midfielders? What's
    offensive about them?

    I believe the german designation is Mittelfeld Offensiv or Offensives Mittelfeld, and Werner has understandably chosen to translate that as offensive (which is widely used in north american sports - offensive
    ends, offensive tackles and so on - in that sense_)
    Both forms work in Portuguese (at least this side of the Atlantic): Meia Ofensivo or Meia Atacante.


    Best regards,
    Lléo

    Attackive makes more sense. When someone's running towards the goal with the ball, they're attacking, not offending. Attackive makes more sense than attacking too. You don't call Italy's style of play defending. And you don't call a defensive midfielder
    a defending midfielder either. I think the correct terms are attackIVE and defensIVE.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jesus Petry@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 20 03:11:29 2023
    Em sexta-feira, 20 de janeiro de 2023 às 05:21:27 UTC-3, Mark escreveu:
    Attackive makes more sense. When someone's running towards the goal with the ball, they're attacking, not offending. Attackive makes more sense than attacking too. You don't call Italy's style of play defending. And you don't call a defensive
    midfielder a defending midfielder either. I think the correct terms are attackIVE and defensIVE.

    Unsatisfied with combatting the status quo of world economics, intrepid Mark now launches an offensive (sorry, an attackive?) against the status quo of English language!

    While defense and offense clearly stem from the same etymologic branch (https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=defense , https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=offense , both Latin through Old French), attack comes from another branch from the same tree (
    https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=attack , Florentine Italian through French).
    For the first two words, the suffix -ive seems tailor-made and fits like a glove. They seem to be made for each other.
    But for the word attack, this suffix feels like Cinderella's shoe in an ugly stepsister's foot.
    It doesn't work in Portuguese either. We don't have the word "ataquivo" and I haven't even heard someone try even for a joke.

    Tchau!
    Jesus Petry

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)