• UCL semifinal R

    From FF@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 30 23:07:58 2024
    Sorry but I'm not going to reply to a thread called Uefa Farmersliga
    Semi finals .

    So, it looks like the miracle of last year's Man City was short lived.
    Bacl to business as usual. Real know how to win big games and get to
    the upper stages and possibly win it again. Ancelotti is a pragmatist
    who pretty often wins against stronger teams, and all the rest.

    I haven't seen the quarter against City but I hear City dominated,
    created chances but couldn't score. Sounds familiar. Looks like they're
    quickly turning into Barcelona 2, under Guardiola. Hopefully it won't
    be like this and Pep finds a way to make them win again, for the good
    of football. But this year it's over.

    As for the game, it was so-so. The result seemed fair. I have to say, absolutely brilliant pass by Kroos at the first goal.

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  • From FF@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 30 23:57:00 2024
    FF wrote:

    Sorry but I'm not going to reply to a thread called Uefa Farmersliga
    Semi finals .

    So, it looks like the miracle of last year's Man City was short lived.
    Bacl to business as usual. Real know how to win big games and get to
    the upper stages and possibly win it again. Ancelotti is a pragmatist
    who pretty often wins against stronger teams, and all the rest.

    I haven't seen the quarter against City but I hear City dominated,
    created chances but couldn't score. Sounds familiar. Looks like
    they're quickly turning into Barcelona 2, under Guardiola. Hopefully
    it won't be like this and Pep finds a way to make them win again, for
    the good of football. But this year it's over.

    As for the game, it was so-so. The result seemed fair. I have to say, absolutely brilliant pass by Kroos at the first goal.

    Of course this refers to the first semi-final, Bayern - Real 2 - 2.

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  • From Blueshirt@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 1 12:44:10 2024
    FF wrote:

    FF wrote:

    As for the game, it was so-so. The result seemed fair. I
    have to say, absolutely brilliant pass by Kroos at the first
    goal.

    Of course this refers to the first semi-final, Bayern - Real 2
    - 2.

    Not the most exciting game to watch but I also thought 2-2 was a
    fair result. The tie is set up nicely for the second leg next
    week.

    Bellingham looked a bit off-form though so hopefully he's fully
    fit for the second leg. This could either way.

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  • From FF@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 1 21:23:14 2024
    FF wrote:

    As for the game, it was so-so. The result seemed fair. I have to say, absolutely brilliant pass by Kroos at the first goal.

    Second semi looked a bit better. Some neat technical and speedy field
    play on both sides. A few unbelievable misses, again on both sides.
    Borussia won 1 - 0 but PSG should be slight favorites in the return
    leg. Likewise Real, of course. Let's see. The germans are far from
    being written off and they always can produce surprises. (It's a very
    good year for german teams in the UCL anyway.)

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  • From FF@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 8 17:20:55 2024
    FF wrote:

    FF wrote:

    As for the game, it was so-so. The result seemed fair. I have to
    say, absolutely brilliant pass by Kroos at the first goal.

    Second semi looked a bit better. Some neat technical and speedy field
    play on both sides. A few unbelievable misses, again on both sides.
    Borussia won 1 - 0 but PSG should be slight favorites in the return
    leg. Likewise Real, of course. Let's see. The germans are far from
    being written off and they always can produce surprises. (It's a very
    good year for german teams in the UCL anyway.)

    Looks like the first german team made it to the final. In a few hours
    we'll see if there is a second one too.
    But it was a lucky win. If just 2 of those many woodwork hits by PSG
    had gone in, we'd probably have a different conversation. Besides, I
    had the impression that at least one of their penalty calls could have
    been deserved (not very clear though and I don't have time any more to
    look at it in detail).

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  • From MH@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 8 12:08:08 2024
    On 2024-05-08 11:20, FF wrote:
    FF wrote:

    FF wrote:

    As for the game, it was so-so. The result seemed fair. I have to
    say, absolutely brilliant pass by Kroos at the first goal.

    Second semi looked a bit better. Some neat technical and speedy field
    play on both sides. A few unbelievable misses, again on both sides.
    Borussia won 1 - 0 but PSG should be slight favorites in the return
    leg. Likewise Real, of course. Let's see. The germans are far from
    being written off and they always can produce surprises. (It's a very
    good year for german teams in the UCL anyway.)

    Looks like the first german team made it to the final. In a few hours
    we'll see if there is a second one too.
    But it was a lucky win. If just 2 of those many woodwork hits by PSG
    had gone in, we'd probably have a different conversation. Besides, I
    had the impression that at least one of their penalty calls could have
    been deserved (not very clear though and I don't have time any more to
    look at it in detail).

    I think Mbappe really was held back enough for a penalty to be given.
    The other one may well have been outside the area (which is what the ref decided) and anyway was a dive in my book - player sought contact with Hummels's leg and threw himself dramatically to the ground.

    Hakimi should have been sent off. Deserved a yellow for a blatant dive
    in the area, and then pushed Schlotterbeck over (I think it was
    Schlotterbeck) without provocation, while making contact with his head.

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  • From FF@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 8 19:01:32 2024
    MH wrote:

    On 2024-05-08 11:20, FF wrote:
    But it was a lucky win. If just 2 of those many woodwork hits by PSG
    had gone in, we'd probably have a different conversation. Besides, I
    had the impression that at least one of their penalty calls could
    have been deserved (not very clear though and I don't have time any
    more to look at it in detail).

    I think Mbappe really was held back enough for a penalty to be given.
    The other one may well have been outside the area (which is what the
    ref decided) and anyway was a dive in my book - player sought contact
    with Hummels's leg and threw himself dramatically to the ground.

    The one of Mbappe was what I meant too. But I think he might have beem
    the first one to use his arms.
    The other one looked clearly outside the box. Pretty close but outside.

    As for Mbappe, at the end nobody held him back so he tripped by
    himself. :) They were really unlucky. But that's football.

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  • From Real_Mardin@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 8 21:41:48 2024
    FF wrote:

    FF wrote:

    Looks like the first german team made it to the final. In a few hours
    we'll see if there is a second one too.
    But it was a lucky win. If just 2 of those many woodwork hits by PSG
    had gone in, we'd probably have a different conversation. Besides, I
    had the impression that at least one of their penalty calls could have
    been deserved (not very clear though and I don't have time any more to
    look at it in detail).

    It wasn't to be.

    Excellent game.
    Both teams fought well. In the end the masters of the comeback turned
    the result around again.

    It was also a demonstration of the video ref. They had 3 or 4 difficult
    calls to make and got all of them right. This would definitely never
    have happened before the video ref. (I'd like to see Blatter come and
    tell us again that football needs a human face. And many more others.)

    I have to say, in the UCL the refereeing finally seems to be more or
    less where it should be. Unlike what I saw at the World Cup.


    Not sure if it actually went to VAR but what about the position near the end where Bayern seemed to be wrongly flagged for offside, cancelling out a passage of play where they placed the ball in the net for what would have been the equaliser? That didn't
    look like a fair decision to me.


    RM

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  • From FF@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 8 21:19:40 2024
    FF wrote:

    Looks like the first german team made it to the final. In a few hours
    we'll see if there is a second one too.
    But it was a lucky win. If just 2 of those many woodwork hits by PSG
    had gone in, we'd probably have a different conversation. Besides, I
    had the impression that at least one of their penalty calls could have
    been deserved (not very clear though and I don't have time any more to
    look at it in detail).

    It wasn't to be.

    Excellent game.
    Both teams fought well. In the end the masters of the comeback turned
    the result around again.

    It was also a demonstration of the video ref. They had 3 or 4 difficult
    calls to make and got all of them right. This would definitely never
    have happened before the video ref. (I'd like to see Blatter come and
    tell us again that football needs a human face. And many more others.)

    I have to say, in the UCL the refereeing finally seems to be more or
    less where it should be. Unlike what I saw at the World Cup.

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  • From FF@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 8 22:31:10 2024
    Real_Mardin wrote:

    FF wrote:

    FF wrote:

    Looks like the first german team made it to the final. In a few
    hours we'll see if there is a second one too.
    But it was a lucky win. If just 2 of those many woodwork hits by
    PSG had gone in, we'd probably have a different conversation.
    Besides, I had the impression that at least one of their penalty
    calls could have been deserved (not very clear though and I don't
    have time any more to look at it in detail).

    It wasn't to be.

    Excellent game.
    Both teams fought well. In the end the masters of the comeback
    turned the result around again.

    It was also a demonstration of the video ref. They had 3 or 4
    difficult calls to make and got all of them right. This would
    definitely never have happened before the video ref. (I'd like to
    see Blatter come and tell us again that football needs a human
    face. And many more others.)

    I have to say, in the UCL the refereeing finally seems to be more or
    less where it should be. Unlike what I saw at the World Cup.


    Not sure if it actually went to VAR but what about the position near
    the end where Bayern seemed to be wrongly flagged for offside,
    cancelling out a passage of play where they placed the ball in the
    net for what would have been the equaliser? That didn't look like a
    fair decision to me.


    RM

    It didn't go to the VAR. And I looked carefully and it did seem offside
    to me, a very close one. I agree the ref shouldn't have whistled and
    then should have asked the VAR, but I think it was offside.
    In any case, if it wasn't we'll hear much about it in the next hours
    and days.

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  • From Real_Mardin@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 9 17:39:39 2024
    FF wrote:

    Real_Mardin wrote:

    FF wrote:

    FF wrote:

    Looks like the first german team made it to the final. In a few
    hours we'll see if there is a second one too.
    But it was a lucky win. If just 2 of those many woodwork hits by
    PSG had gone in, we'd probably have a different conversation.
    Besides, I had the impression that at least one of their penalty
    calls could have been deserved (not very clear though and I don't
    have time any more to look at it in detail).

    It wasn't to be.

    Excellent game.
    Both teams fought well. In the end the masters of the comeback
    turned the result around again.

    It was also a demonstration of the video ref. They had 3 or 4
    difficult calls to make and got all of them right. This would
    definitely never have happened before the video ref. (I'd like to
    see Blatter come and tell us again that football needs a human
    face. And many more others.)

    I have to say, in the UCL the refereeing finally seems to be more or
    less where it should be. Unlike what I saw at the World Cup.


    Not sure if it actually went to VAR but what about the position near
    the end where Bayern seemed to be wrongly flagged for offside,
    cancelling out a passage of play where they placed the ball in the
    net for what would have been the equaliser? That didn't look like a
    fair decision to me.


    RM

    It didn't go to the VAR. And I looked carefully and it did seem offside
    to me, a very close one. I agree the ref shouldn't have whistled and
    then should have asked the VAR, but I think it was offside.
    In any case, if it wasn't we'll hear much about it in the next hours
    and days.

    Well I don’t think he was offside and all the presenters and pundits on TNT Sports thought the linesman got the call wrong and that the Bayern player wasn’t offside. Don’t understand why VAR wasn’t consulted, particularly in light of how VAR had
    been used minutes before to turn an offside call into a goal for Real Madrid.

    Tuchel told TNT Sports after the match that the linesman apologised to him, but of course an apology doesn’t put the matter right.

    RM

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  • From MH@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 9 13:20:18 2024
    On 2024-05-09 11:39, Real_Mardin wrote:
    FF wrote:

    Real_Mardin wrote:

    FF wrote:

    FF wrote:
    Looks like the first german team made it to the final. In a few
    hours we'll see if there is a second one too.
    But it was a lucky win. If just 2 of those many woodwork hits by
    PSG had gone in, we'd probably have a different conversation.
    Besides, I had the impression that at least one of their penalty
    calls could have been deserved (not very clear though and I don't
    have time any more to look at it in detail).

    It wasn't to be.

    Excellent game.
    Both teams fought well. In the end the masters of the comeback
    turned the result around again.

    It was also a demonstration of the video ref. They had 3 or 4
    difficult calls to make and got all of them right. This would
    definitely never have happened before the video ref. (I'd like to
    see Blatter come and tell us again that football needs a human
    face. And many more others.)

    I have to say, in the UCL the refereeing finally seems to be more or
    less where it should be. Unlike what I saw at the World Cup.


    Not sure if it actually went to VAR but what about the position near
    the end where Bayern seemed to be wrongly flagged for offside,
    cancelling out a passage of play where they placed the ball in the
    net for what would have been the equaliser? That didn't look like a
    fair decision to me.


    RM

    It didn't go to the VAR. And I looked carefully and it did seem offside
    to me, a very close one. I agree the ref shouldn't have whistled and
    then should have asked the VAR, but I think it was offside.
    In any case, if it wasn't we'll hear much about it in the next hours
    and days.

    Well I don’t think he was offside and all the presenters and pundits on
    TNT Sports thought the linesman got the call wrong and that the Bayern
    player wasn’t offside. Don’t understand why VAR wasn’t consulted, particularly in light of how VAR had been used minutes before to turn an offside call into a goal for Real Madrid.

    Tuchel told TNT Sports after the match that the linesman apologised to
    him, but of course an apology doesn’t put the matter right.

    Not the linesman's fault, at least not entirely. The ref does not have
    to blow his whistle when a linesman flags, but this one did. Having
    done so before the ball went into the goal, there was apparently no
    recourse to VAR possible.

    This loss is on Neuer, though. Even the best make dumb mistakes, I guess.

    RM

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  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 9 20:22:51 2024
    MH wrote:

    Not the linesman's fault, at least not entirely. The ref does not have
    to blow his whistle when a linesman flags, but this one did. Having
    done so before the ball went into the goal, there was apparently no
    recourse to VAR possible.

    https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1788498793672897018?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

    This thread argues that the linesman did the correct thing in raising the flag, and the blame is squarely on the referee for blowing the whistle.

    My impression is that Mazraoui was marginally offside, but we'll never know. The Real Madrid/Bernabeu mystique is really something to behold (even though, truth be told, if Bayern had managed to come out on top yesterday it would have been daylight
    robbery)

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  • From FF@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Fri May 10 04:05:30 2024
    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    MH wrote:

    Not the linesman's fault, at least not entirely. The ref does not
    have to blow his whistle when a linesman flags, but this one did.
    Having done so before the ball went into the goal, there was
    apparently no recourse to VAR possible.


    https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1788498793672897018?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

    This thread argues that the linesman did the correct thing in raising
    the flag, and the blame is squarely on the referee for blowing the
    whistle.

    I think the linesman has his part of the fault, because even if it was
    it was very small. He could and probably should have ignored it.

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  • From FF@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Fri May 10 03:55:30 2024
    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    MH wrote:

    Not the linesman's fault, at least not entirely. The ref does not
    have to blow his whistle when a linesman flags, but this one did.
    Having done so before the ball went into the goal, there was
    apparently no recourse to VAR possible.


    https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1788498793672897018?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

    This thread argues that the linesman did the correct thing in raising
    the flag, and the blame is squarely on the referee for blowing the
    whistle.

    My impression is that Mazraoui was marginally offside, but we'll
    never know. The Real Madrid/Bernabeu mystique is really something to
    behold (even though, truth be told, if Bayern had managed to come out
    on top yesterday it would have been daylight robbery)

    In any case, it's a difficult situation. From the video on the Net
    (it's the same everywhere, at least that's what I found) it's still
    hard to tell. The clear things are that
    1. It's not the VARs fault.
    2. It's the ref's fault for not consulting the VAR. That much is clear.
    I guess they're still learning. I still think the rerfereeing was good
    over-all (in part because I don't think it was in fact offside).

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  • From FF@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 10 05:09:08 2024
    FF wrote:

    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    MH wrote:

    Not the linesman's fault, at least not entirely. The ref does not
    have to blow his whistle when a linesman flags, but this one did.
    Having done so before the ball went into the goal, there was
    apparently no recourse to VAR possible.



    https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1788498793672897018?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

    This thread argues that the linesman did the correct thing in
    raising the flag, and the blame is squarely on the referee for
    blowing the whistle.

    I think the linesman has his part of the fault, because even if it was
    it was very small. He could and probably should have ignored it.

    I'm thinking, possibly the best thing to do would be that the linesmen
    just don't call offsides any more, in matches with VAR. If it doesn't
    result in a goal it doesn't matter, and if it does it will be reviewed
    by the video ref. (I might have said something like this on my site 10
    years ago.)

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  • From Blueshirt@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 10 10:45:00 2024
    FF wrote:

    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    My impression is that Mazraoui was marginally offside, but
    we'll never know. The Real Madrid/Bernabeu mystique is
    really something to behold (even though, truth be told, if
    Bayern had managed to come out on top yesterday it would
    have been daylight robbery)

    In any case, it's a difficult situation. From the video on the
    Net (it's the same everywhere, at least that's what I found)
    it's still hard to tell. The clear things are that
    1. It's not the VARs fault.
    2. It's the ref's fault for not consulting the VAR. That much
    is clear. I guess they're still learning. I still think the
    rerfereeing was good over-all (in part because I don't think
    it was in fact offside).

    They did a still photo on one of the sports channels where the
    line was drawn [by them] to the boot of Rudiger and Mazraoui was
    onside, but it was very very tight... so the assistant ref on
    the nearside should not have raised his flag. (Which might be
    why he apologised.) It's all irrelevant now though... and the
    main reason that Bayern Munich did not reach the 2024 Champions
    League Final is because of Manuel Neuer's butter-fingers!

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  • From HASM@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri May 10 08:09:16 2024
    "FF" <[email protected]> writes:

    1. It's not the VARs fault.
    2. It's the ref's fault for not consulting the VAR. That much is clear.
    I guess they're still learning. I still think the rerfereeing was good over-all (in part because I don't think it was in fact offside).

    Never refereed with VAR, but it is always very hard for the center
    referee to override a (trusted) assistant's call.

    When refereeing at an amateur/semi-pro level, the highest I ever did,
    there is no referee crew that works together consistently, and thus one
    can get on thorny situations working with an assistant or center referee
    that doesn't do things "properly". Believe me.

    The crew on this game certainly has worked together at this high level,
    and probably many other lower levels, many times. There is a high level
    of trust between them.

    The "fault", if one really wants to blame someone, is really on the
    assistant referee here, as he didn't follow protocol or, more likely,
    believed that one of the Bayern players is "obviously" offside.

    If you look at the replay, the pass comes from a little behind the
    halfway line, on the other side of the field from the assistant's point
    of view, to a couple of players near the top of the penalty box (an the
    one player that doesn't touch the ball is probably offside). This is a
    hard call to judge, as by the time that the assistant turns his head
    from where he is looking at the pass, to where the players are some 40
    yards downfield, players could have moved several meters/yards.

    He raises his flag, the center referee, who is no position to override
    him, trusts him and whistles. The FIFA referee on the CBS/Paramount
    post broadcast analysis claims that the center referee errored, but that
    is an ipso facto statement, most high level center referees would have
    done the same. I know I would, I "know" that my assistant is certain
    that was offside and not a situation that he would let play go on to be
    further analyzed by VAR.

    Once the referee whistles the play is over. Speculation of what would
    happen if there was no whistle, i.e. would a goal even be scored, are pointless. There is nothing VAR could have done, nor is it useful to
    consult with VAR at that point. What do you want them to do, award the
    goal?

    -- HASM

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  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to HASM on Fri May 10 19:43:52 2024
    HASM wrote:


    The "fault", if one really wants to blame someone, is really on the
    assistant referee here, as he didn't follow protocol or, more likely, believed that one of the Bayern players is "obviously" offside.

    Dale Johnson argues that the AR *did* follow protocol: you should delay raising the flag only if the ball actually reaches the intended target, who was in an offside position, and then raise the flag when the play is over. Because the ball never reached
    Mazraoui, the "play" was over, and the AR raised the flag.

    Then it's up to the discretion of the referee whether to blow the whistle immediately or not.



    Once the referee whistles the play is over. Speculation of what would
    happen if there was no whistle, i.e. would a goal even be scored, are pointless. There is nothing VAR could have done, nor is it useful to
    consult with VAR at that point. What do you want them to do, award the
    goal?

    No discussion about this.

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  • From FF@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Sat May 11 19:53:33 2024
    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    HASM wrote:


    The "fault", if one really wants to blame someone, is really on the assistant referee here, as he didn't follow protocol or, more
    likely, believed that one of the Bayern players is "obviously"
    offside.

    Dale Johnson argues that the AR did follow protocol: you should delay
    raising the flag only if the ball actually reaches the intended
    target, who was in an offside position, and then raise the flag when
    the play is over. Because the ball never reached Mazraoui, the "play"
    was over, and the AR raised the flag.

    This seems really stupid.
    Are you sure the condition is that the ball reaches the target player ?
    Seems to me the reasonable thing to do is, regardless whether the
    offside player actually touches the ball, wait until the play is over
    before raising the flag, to avoid being wrong and spoiling a goal (as
    was the case here). The play was certainly not over. It's over when
    things have calmed down or the other side has firm control of the ball.

    In any case it seems hugely commplicated. Linesmen are human too. My
    guess is, as I said, the simple thing that they can actually do is to
    not flag for offside any more and let the video ref decide it if
    necessary. They probably aren't yet ready to admit it and try other
    solutions that are impossibly complicated.

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  • From FF@21:1/5 to HASM on Sat May 11 20:29:01 2024
    HASM wrote:

    "FF" <[email protected]> writes:

    1. It's not the VARs fault.
    2. It's the ref's fault for not consulting the VAR. That much is
    clear. I guess they're still learning. I still think the
    rerfereeing was good over-all (in part because I don't think it was
    in fact offside).

    Never refereed with VAR, but it is always very hard for the center
    referee to override a (trusted) assistant's call.

    When refereeing at an amateur/semi-pro level, the highest I ever did,
    there is no referee crew that works together consistently, and thus
    one can get on thorny situations working with an assistant or center
    referee that doesn't do things "properly". Believe me.

    The crew on this game certainly has worked together at this high
    level, and probably many other lower levels, many times. There is a
    high level of trust between them.

    The "fault", if one really wants to blame someone, is really on the
    assistant referee here, as he didn't follow protocol or, more likely, believed that one of the Bayern players is "obviously" offside.

    If you look at the replay, the pass comes from a little behind the
    halfway line, on the other side of the field from the assistant's
    point of view, to a couple of players near the top of the penalty box
    (an the one player that doesn't touch the ball is probably offside).
    This is a hard call to judge, as by the time that the assistant turns
    his head from where he is looking at the pass, to where the players
    are some 40 yards downfield, players could have moved several
    meters/yards.

    He raises his flag, the center referee, who is no position to override
    him, trusts him and whistles. The FIFA referee on the CBS/Paramount
    post broadcast analysis claims that the center referee errored, but
    that is an ipso facto statement, most high level center referees
    would have done the same. I know I would, I "know" that my assistant
    is certain that was offside and not a situation that he would let
    play go on to be further analyzed by VAR.

    Once the referee whistles the play is over. Speculation of what would
    happen if there was no whistle, i.e. would a goal even be scored, are pointless. There is nothing VAR could have done, nor is it useful to
    consult with VAR at that point. What do you want them to do, award
    the goal?

    -- HASM

    No question the AR made an error. He was certain that there was an
    offside when in fact there wasn't. The problem is, sometimes this type
    of error happens, otherwise there would be no wrong offside call (only
    wrong offside non-calls). As we know, in practice there are, aven if
    rare at the upper levels. Always have, always will.

    Now, without the VAR, things are probably more or less as you say and
    the ref has not much to do than to trust his linesman, except in
    special circumstances.
    With the video ref, one of the goals is (or should be) to avoid such a situation as much as possible. How can that be, if the assistant raises
    the flag because he is (wrongly) certain and the central immediately
    whistles because he trusts the assistant ? You're telling us these
    situations cannot be avoided, even with the vidoe ref. I don't think
    this is how they view it. And we've learned in recent days that there
    is indeed a special protocol for such situations with a VAR present.
    Which is, one or both the refs involved should delay call until the
    play is over. My guess is both, to minimise the possibility of error.
    But the AR is certain of the offside else he wouldn't flag, so he is
    inclined to forget about the protocol and raise it immediately. It
    makes even more sense to require the ref too to ignore the flag until
    the play is over.

    In any case, as I said this is an additional level of complication on
    both refs (especially the linesman). I'm betting in the end they'll
    come to senses and let offside be judged only by the video ref, as I
    said.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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