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  • RIP Gigi Riva

    From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 22 20:33:46 2024
    https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/record-italy-goalscorer-gigi-riva-dies-aged-79-2024-01-22/

    :-(

    How his puny 35 goals are still the all-time record for the Italian NT is one of football's greatest mysteries.

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  • From Ammammata@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix used his keyboard to on Tue Jan 23 15:50:41 2024
    Futbolmetrix used his keyboard to write :
    How his puny 35 goals are still the all-time record for the Italian NT is one of football's greatest mysteries.

    remember world cup 2006 in Germany?

    Pirlo
    Iaquinta
    Gilardino
    Materazzi
    Inzaghi
    Totti
    Zambrotta
    Toni
    Toni (2nd)
    Grosso
    Del Piero
    Materazzi (2nd)

    Italy doesn't need a 15-goals-in-tournament player to win a
    championship, a good balanced team is enough ;)

    Any other team won the cup with its hi-scorer with just two goals?
    I remember in Chile 1962 the top scorer had 4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_FIFA_World_Cup#Goalscorers

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  • From MH@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Tue Jan 23 16:37:08 2024
    On 2024-01-22 13:33, Futbolmetrix wrote:
    https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/record-italy-goalscorer-gigi-riva-dies-aged-79-2024-01-22/

    :-(

    How his puny 35 goals are still the all-time record for the Italian NT
    is one of football's greatest mysteries.

    Goals per game is very respectable at 0.83 . Only 42 caps. Presumably a
    lot fewer caps were against weak opposition, too, since there were fewer
    games overall, and countries like Andorra, San Marino, Faroes, Malra, Liechtenstein and so on were not competing internationally.


    All of Italy's leading scorers since mid 70s have pretty dismal goals
    per game rations - which is probably why their average cap numbers don't compare all that well to the ones from other countries -a lot of
    chopping and changing.

    Baggio 0.48
    Vieri 0.47
    Inzaghi 0.44
    Altobelli 0.41
    Graziani 0.36
    Del Piero 0.30, but with the most caps of this bunch at 91.

    Totti had only 58 caps and 9 goals
    Rossi only 48 caps and 20 goals (0.417)

    Giroud and Henry scored at similar rates to the above, but had a lot
    more caps. Mbappe is doing considerably better.
    Klose was at 0.52 with way more caps
    Muller 1.1, Voller 0.52 (90 caps). Lukaku is at an impressive 0.73 with
    113 caps. Kane is at 0.70 Lineker was 0.60, Greaves 0.71, and Shearer 0.48

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  • From Ammammata@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 24 08:17:34 2024
    MH expressed precisely :
    Muller 1.1, Voller 0.52 (90 caps). Lukaku is at an impressive 0.73 with 113 caps. Kane is at 0.70 Lineker was 0.60, Greaves 0.71, and Shearer 0.48

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_men%27s_footballers_with_50_or_more_international_goals

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  • From MH@21:1/5 to Ammammata on Wed Jan 24 12:33:26 2024
    On 2024-01-24 00:17, Ammammata wrote:
    MH expressed precisely :
    Muller 1.1, Voller 0.52 (90 caps).  Lukaku is at an impressive 0.73
    with 113 caps.  Kane is at 0.70 Lineker was 0.60, Greaves 0.71, and
    Shearer 0.48

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_men%27s_footballers_with_50_or_more_international_goals


    A list that kind of supports what I said. Many of the names on this
    list come from confederations with lots of unequal matches and a lot of
    games, with the players having very large numbers of caps (>100) for the
    most part.

    For the UEFA ones, the number of caps the better Italian attacking
    players get is lagging quite far behind that of some other countries.
    Which suggests much less settled lineups in the attacking positions.

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  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 24 23:16:07 2024
    MH wrote:

    On 2024-01-22 13:33, Futbolmetrix wrote:
    https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/record-italy-goalscorer-gigi-riva-dies-aged-79-2024-01-22/

    :-(

    How his puny 35 goals are still the all-time record for the Italian NT
    is one of football's greatest mysteries.

    Goals per game is very respectable at 0.83 . Only 42 caps. Presumably a
    lot fewer caps were against weak opposition, too, since there were fewer games overall, and countries like Andorra, San Marino, Faroes, Malra, Liechtenstein and so on were not competing internationally.

    Yes, Riva would likely have put a more respectable number if his career had not been cut short by injuries.


    All of Italy's leading scorers since mid 70s have pretty dismal goals
    per game rations - which is probably why their average cap numbers don't compare all that well to the ones from other countries -a lot of
    chopping and changing.

    [list snipped]

    Yes, the relative non-longevity is a key aspect here. I don't know how much the low goal-per-game ratio of several key players contributed to their low number of caps. There were a lot of other things going on:

    - concentration of elite attacking talent in narrow age windows, leading to a lot of competition for playing time (Altobelli, Graziani, Rossi and Bettega in the 1970s-80s; Baggio, Mancini, Zola, Del Piero, Totti, Signori in the 1990s-2000s).
    - Late bloomers (Vieri, Toni)
    - Injuries and suspensions (Rossi)
    - Incompatibility with NT coaches (Baggio and Vialli)
    - Not caring much about the national team (Totti in his prime regularly found some niggling injury around NT games. He also retired from the NT immediately after the 2006 WC)
    - Players played out of position (Del Piero for much of his NT career. This is in part due to the first point, he was deemed incompatible with Totti)

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  • From Ammammata@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 25 08:28:00 2024
    Futbolmetrix was thinking very hard :
    - concentration of elite attacking talent in narrow age windows, leading to a lot of competition for playing time (Altobelli, Graziani, Rossi and Bettega in the 1970s-80s

    don't forget Paolino Pulici, with just a few caps even if he was three
    times top scorer in Serie A

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  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to Werner Pichler on Thu Jan 25 10:51:16 2024
    Werner Pichler wrote:


    don't forget Paolino Pulici, with just a few caps even if he was three
    times top scorer in Serie A

    Same with Roberto Pruzzo.

    And Signori. Both Pruzzo and Signori fall in two categories: lots of competition for playing time with other strikers their age, and incompatibility with NT managers (not sure about Pulici).

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