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  • Canon was stupid not to exploit this

    From RichA@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 23 20:19:49 2023
    Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
    art documentation.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_
    473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alfred Molon@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 24 18:18:19 2023
    Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
    Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
    art documentation.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_
    473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE

    $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost?
    --
    Alfred Molon

    Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
    https://groups.io/g/myolympus
    https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichA@21:1/5 to Alfred Molon on Mon Apr 24 20:09:13 2023
    On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:18:28 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote:
    Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
    Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
    one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
    art documentation.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_
    473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE
    $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost?
    --
    Alfred Molon

    Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
    https://groups.io/g/myolympus
    https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

    Odd. The entire development kit is only $10,000.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Whisky-dave@21:1/5 to RichA on Tue Apr 25 02:26:08 2023
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 04:09:17 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:18:28 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote:
    Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
    Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
    one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
    art documentation.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_
    473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE
    $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost?
    --
    Alfred Molon

    Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
    https://groups.io/g/myolympus
    https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
    Odd. The entire development kit is only $10,000.

    Probably to encourage development, sometimes you can get samples for free if your a developer or
    if the company thinks you'll buy more.
    We as a university can get good discounts on some products, sometimes they give out free samples.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichA@21:1/5 to Whisky-dave on Tue Apr 25 20:49:54 2023
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 05:26:12 UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 04:09:17 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:18:28 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote:
    Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
    Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
    one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
    art documentation.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_
    473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE
    $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost?
    --
    Alfred Molon

    Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
    https://groups.io/g/myolympus
    https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
    Odd. The entire development kit is only $10,000.
    Probably to encourage development, sometimes you can get samples for free if your a developer or
    if the company thinks you'll buy more.
    We as a university can get good discounts on some products, sometimes they give out free samples.

    I've gotten free samples of Texas Instruments CCDs when they made them, but the kits never cost anywhere near $10k.
    I think the price is a test to see if you are a serious developer or not. A serious developer can amortize the cost if need be.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan Browne@21:1/5 to RichA on Wed Apr 26 12:13:25 2023
    On 2023-04-25 23:49, RichA wrote:
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 05:26:12 UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 04:09:17 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:18:28 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote:
    Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
    Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
    one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
    art documentation.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_
    473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE
    $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost?
    --
    Alfred Molon

    Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
    https://groups.io/g/myolympus
    https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
    Odd. The entire development kit is only $10,000.
    Probably to encourage development, sometimes you can get samples for free if your a developer or
    if the company thinks you'll buy more.
    We as a university can get good discounts on some products, sometimes they give out free samples.

    I've gotten free samples of Texas Instruments CCDs when they made them, but the kits never cost anywhere near $10k.
    I think the price is a test to see if you are a serious developer or not. A serious developer can amortize the cost if need be.

    It's partly that, but mainly that dev kits are small in number overall
    so costly to design, manufacture and manage.

    --
    “Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
    danger to American democracy.”
    - J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
    - Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
    committee

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichA@21:1/5 to Alan Browne on Thu Apr 27 13:17:39 2023
    On Wednesday, 26 April 2023 at 12:13:32 UTC-4, Alan Browne wrote:
    On 2023-04-25 23:49, RichA wrote:
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 05:26:12 UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 04:09:17 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:18:28 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote:
    Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
    Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
    one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
    art documentation.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_
    473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE
    $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost?
    --
    Alfred Molon

    Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
    https://groups.io/g/myolympus
    https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
    Odd. The entire development kit is only $10,000.
    Probably to encourage development, sometimes you can get samples for free if your a developer or
    if the company thinks you'll buy more.
    We as a university can get good discounts on some products, sometimes they give out free samples.

    I've gotten free samples of Texas Instruments CCDs when they made them, but the kits never cost anywhere near $10k.
    I think the price is a test to see if you are a serious developer or not. A serious developer can amortize the cost if need be.
    It's partly that, but mainly that dev kits are small in number overall
    so costly to design, manufacture and manage.

    Making circuit boards isn't that expensive, the chips cost money, depending on their size and density.
    A university local to me has their own mini-wafer fab. Of course it's not capable of the kind of density
    cutting-edge stuff can do. The price of the machines to make the latest chips was $30M. The price for
    the newest machines for the next-gen CPUs and GPUs is $300M each.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan Browne@21:1/5 to RichA on Thu Apr 27 18:06:38 2023
    On 2023-04-27 16:17, RichA wrote:
    On Wednesday, 26 April 2023 at 12:13:32 UTC-4, Alan Browne wrote:
    On 2023-04-25 23:49, RichA wrote:
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 05:26:12 UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 04:09:17 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:18:28 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote:
    Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
    Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
    one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
    art documentation.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_
    473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE
    $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost?
    --
    Alfred Molon

    Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
    https://groups.io/g/myolympus
    https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
    Odd. The entire development kit is only $10,000.
    Probably to encourage development, sometimes you can get samples for free if your a developer or
    if the company thinks you'll buy more.
    We as a university can get good discounts on some products, sometimes they give out free samples.

    I've gotten free samples of Texas Instruments CCDs when they made them, but the kits never cost anywhere near $10k.
    I think the price is a test to see if you are a serious developer or not. A serious developer can amortize the cost if need be.
    It's partly that, but mainly that dev kits are small in number overall
    so costly to design, manufacture and manage.

    Making circuit boards isn't that expensive, the chips cost money, depending on their size and density.

    The cost is in designing the kit.
    Kitting out the kit.
    S/w interfaces (by whatever name) that go with the kit (ie: starter/demo
    code.
    Making the low run boards. (PCB ordering, costs, card stuffing, testing)
    Bits and bobs, packaging, instructions, support, etc.

    So all that cost is spread over a small number of dev kit buyers (and
    probably at a loss charged to marketing).

    (It always sound "easy" until you "do it").

    <irrelevancies snipped>


    --
    “Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
    danger to American democracy.”
    - J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
    - Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
    committee

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Whisky-dave@21:1/5 to RichA on Fri Apr 28 07:06:00 2023
    On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 21:17:44 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    On Wednesday, 26 April 2023 at 12:13:32 UTC-4, Alan Browne wrote:
    On 2023-04-25 23:49, RichA wrote:
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 05:26:12 UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 04:09:17 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:18:28 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote:
    Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
    Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
    one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
    art documentation.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_
    473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE
    $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost?
    --
    Alfred Molon

    Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
    https://groups.io/g/myolympus
    https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
    Odd. The entire development kit is only $10,000.
    Probably to encourage development, sometimes you can get samples for free if your a developer or
    if the company thinks you'll buy more.
    We as a university can get good discounts on some products, sometimes they give out free samples.

    I've gotten free samples of Texas Instruments CCDs when they made them, but the kits never cost anywhere near $10k.
    I think the price is a test to see if you are a serious developer or not. A serious developer can amortize the cost if need be.
    It's partly that, but mainly that dev kits are small in number overall
    so costly to design, manufacture and manage.
    Making circuit boards isn't that expensive,

    But you have to pay someone to design them, they you have to get a board fabricated and then tested.
    Materail costs might be cheap but the rest is where the costs mount.


    the chips cost money, depending on their size and density.

    or they can be cheap depending on how many you intended to produce, and taking into account failure rate.


    A university local to me has their own mini-wafer fab. Of course it's not capable of the kind of density
    cutting-edge stuff can do. The price of the machines to make the latest chips was $30M. The price for
    the newest machines for the next-gen CPUs and GPUs is $300M each.

    Yes we used to send our chips off to another university for making but even that got to expensive and slow to do.
    Now most things are simulated

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichA@21:1/5 to Whisky-dave on Mon May 1 16:30:39 2023
    On Friday, 28 April 2023 at 10:06:04 UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 21:17:44 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    On Wednesday, 26 April 2023 at 12:13:32 UTC-4, Alan Browne wrote:
    On 2023-04-25 23:49, RichA wrote:
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 05:26:12 UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 04:09:17 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:18:28 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote:
    Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
    Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
    one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
    art documentation.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_
    473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE
    $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost? >>>> --
    Alfred Molon

    Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
    https://groups.io/g/myolympus
    https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
    Odd. The entire development kit is only $10,000.
    Probably to encourage development, sometimes you can get samples for free if your a developer or
    if the company thinks you'll buy more.
    We as a university can get good discounts on some products, sometimes they give out free samples.

    I've gotten free samples of Texas Instruments CCDs when they made them, but the kits never cost anywhere near $10k.
    I think the price is a test to see if you are a serious developer or not. A serious developer can amortize the cost if need be.
    It's partly that, but mainly that dev kits are small in number overall so costly to design, manufacture and manage.
    Making circuit boards isn't that expensive,
    But you have to pay someone to design them, they you have to get a board fabricated and then tested.
    Materail costs might be cheap but the rest is where the costs mount.
    the chips cost money, depending on their size and density.
    or they can be cheap depending on how many you intended to produce, and taking into account failure rate.
    A university local to me has their own mini-wafer fab. Of course it's not capable of the kind of density
    cutting-edge stuff can do. The price of the machines to make the latest chips was $30M. The price for
    the newest machines for the next-gen CPUs and GPUs is $300M each.
    Yes we used to send our chips off to another university for making but even that got to expensive and slow to do.
    Now most things are simulated

    Good they can nail down a design that way.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Whisky-dave@21:1/5 to RichA on Tue May 2 04:20:55 2023
    On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 00:30:43 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    On Friday, 28 April 2023 at 10:06:04 UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 21:17:44 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    On Wednesday, 26 April 2023 at 12:13:32 UTC-4, Alan Browne wrote:
    On 2023-04-25 23:49, RichA wrote:
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 05:26:12 UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 04:09:17 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:18:28 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote: >>>> Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
    Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
    one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
    art documentation.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_
    473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE
    $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost? >>>> --
    Alfred Molon

    Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
    https://groups.io/g/myolympus
    https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
    Odd. The entire development kit is only $10,000.
    Probably to encourage development, sometimes you can get samples for free if your a developer or
    if the company thinks you'll buy more.
    We as a university can get good discounts on some products, sometimes they give out free samples.

    I've gotten free samples of Texas Instruments CCDs when they made them, but the kits never cost anywhere near $10k.
    I think the price is a test to see if you are a serious developer or not. A serious developer can amortize the cost if need be.
    It's partly that, but mainly that dev kits are small in number overall so costly to design, manufacture and manage.
    Making circuit boards isn't that expensive,
    But you have to pay someone to design them, they you have to get a board fabricated and then tested.
    Materail costs might be cheap but the rest is where the costs mount.
    the chips cost money, depending on their size and density.
    or they can be cheap depending on how many you intended to produce, and taking into account failure rate.
    A university local to me has their own mini-wafer fab. Of course it's not capable of the kind of density
    cutting-edge stuff can do. The price of the machines to make the latest chips was $30M. The price for
    the newest machines for the next-gen CPUs and GPUs is $300M each.
    Yes we used to send our chips off to another university for making but even that got to expensive and slow to do.
    Now most things are simulated
    Good they can nail down a design that way.

    Only in theory they miss so much when not doing anything practical.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)