• One inch sensor

    From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 26 19:06:40 2023
    Hi,

    Why are these sensors called "one inch"? The size is 13.2 x 8.8mm. Where
    does the 1 inch comes from? diagonal? Surface?

    √(13,2² + 8,8²) = 15,86

    13,2 × 8,8 = 116,16

    1" square is 6.4516 cm²


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_CX_format https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format

    I ask because the Panasonic Lumix DC-FZ10002 has that sensor, which
    wikipedia says is obsolete and out of production.


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nospam@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Feb 26 13:25:01 2023
    In article <[email protected]r>, Carlos E.R. <[email protected]d> wrote:


    Why are these sensors called "one inch"? The size is 13.2 x 8.8mm. Where
    does the 1 inch comes from? diagonal? Surface?

    from crt tubes.

    <https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2022/07/28/dealing-with-the-confu sing-and-misleading-1-inch-type-image-sensor>
    The odd naming convention goes back to the dimensions of a
    hypothetical glass tube that could surround the 1-inch sensor. Live
    broadcasting cameras in the 1950s used cathode-ray tubes (CRT)
    to project an image line after line. The glass tube that surrounded a
    signal plate had a 1-inch diameter, although the photosensitive area
    of the tube was only about 0.63" in diameter � or around 16mm. The
    typical diagonal of a modern 1-inch type sensor is, you guessed it,
    16mm (15.9mm, to be precise).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to nospam on Sun Feb 26 19:41:09 2023
    On 2023-02-26 19:25, nospam wrote:
    In article <[email protected]r>, Carlos E.R. <[email protected]d> wrote:


    Why are these sensors called "one inch"? The size is 13.2 x 8.8mm. Where
    does the 1 inch comes from? diagonal? Surface?

    from crt tubes.

    <https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2022/07/28/dealing-with-the-confu sing-and-misleading-1-inch-type-image-sensor>
    The odd naming convention goes back to the dimensions of a
    hypothetical glass tube that could surround the 1-inch sensor. Live
    broadcasting cameras in the 1950s used cathode-ray tubes (CRT)
    to project an image line after line. The glass tube that surrounded a
    signal plate had a 1-inch diameter, although the photosensitive area
    of the tube was only about 0.63" in diameter ­ or around 16mm. The
    typical diagonal of a modern 1-inch type sensor is, you guessed it,
    16mm (15.9mm, to be precise).

    Wow.

    Thanks! :-)

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Taylor@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Sun Feb 26 18:50:37 2023
    On 26/02/2023 18:06, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    Why are these sensors called "one inch"? The size is 13.2 x 8.8mm. Where
    does the 1 inch comes from? diagonal? Surface?

    Television camera tubes. Look up "1-inch vidicon" for example.

    https://www.spotimaging.com/resources/glossary/image-sensor-format/

    Cheers,
    David
    --
    Cheers,
    David
    Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Whisky-dave@21:1/5 to nospam on Tue Feb 28 05:22:35 2023
    On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 18:25:08 UTC, nospam wrote:
    In article <[email protected]r>, Carlos E.R.
    <[email protected]d> wrote:


    Why are these sensors called "one inch"? The size is 13.2 x 8.8mm. Where does the 1 inch comes from? diagonal? Surface?
    from crt tubes.

    <https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2022/07/28/dealing-with-the-confu sing-and-misleading-1-inch-type-image-sensor>
    The odd naming convention goes back to the dimensions of a
    hypothetical glass tube that could surround the 1-inch sensor. Live broadcasting cameras in the 1950s used cathode-ray tubes (CRT)
    to project an image line after line. The glass tube that surrounded a
    signal plate had a 1-inch diameter, although the photosensitive area
    of the tube was only about 0.63" in diameter ­ or around 16mm. The
    typical diagonal of a modern 1-inch type sensor is, you guessed it,
    16mm (15.9mm, to be precise).

    Wow I didn't know that , hadn't really thought about it.

    Now lets define the inch. :-D

    The inch (symbol: in or ″) is a unit of length in the British imperial and the United States customary systems of measurement. It is equal to 1/36 yard or 1/12 of a foot. Derived from the Roman uncia ("twelfth"), the word inch is also sometimes used to
    translate similar units in other measurement systems, usually understood as deriving from the width of the human thumb.

    (my thumb is 21.9mm ) does that mean I'm not human :-)


    Standards for the exact length of an inch have varied in the past, but since the adoption of the international yard during the 1950s and 1960s the inch has been based on the metric system and defined as exactly 25.4 mm.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From geoff@21:1/5 to Whisky-dave on Wed Mar 1 09:39:22 2023
    On 1/03/2023 2:22 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 18:25:08 UTC, nospam wrote:
    In article <[email protected]r>, Carlos E.R.
    <[email protected]d> wrote:


    Why are these sensors called "one inch"? The size is 13.2 x 8.8mm. Where >>> does the 1 inch comes from? diagonal? Surface?
    from crt tubes.

    <https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2022/07/28/dealing-with-the-confu
    sing-and-misleading-1-inch-type-image-sensor>
    The odd naming convention goes back to the dimensions of a
    hypothetical glass tube that could surround the 1-inch sensor. Live
    broadcasting cameras in the 1950s used cathode-ray tubes (CRT)
    to project an image line after line. The glass tube that surrounded a
    signal plate had a 1-inch diameter, although the photosensitive area
    of the tube was only about 0.63" in diameter ­ or around 16mm. The
    typical diagonal of a modern 1-inch type sensor is, you guessed it,
    16mm (15.9mm, to be precise).

    Wow I didn't know that , hadn't really thought about it.

    Now lets define the inch. :-D

    The inch (symbol: in or ″) is a unit of length in the British imperial and the United States customary systems of measurement. It is equal to 1/36 yard or 1/12 of a foot. Derived from the Roman uncia ("twelfth"), the word inch is also sometimes used
    to translate similar units in other measurement systems, usually understood as deriving from the width of the human thumb.

    (my thumb is 21.9mm ) does that mean I'm not human :-)


    Standards for the exact length of an inch have varied in the past, but since the adoption of the international yard during the 1950s and 1960s the inch has been based on the metric system and defined as exactly 25.4 mm.


    Naa the proper standard for an inch is 3 Barleycorns.

    geoff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Magani@21:1/5 to geoff on Tue Feb 28 15:48:08 2023
    On Wednesday, 1 March 2023 at 6:39:31 am UTC+10, geoff wrote:
    On 1/03/2023 2:22 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 18:25:08 UTC, nospam wrote:
    In article <[email protected]r>, Carlos E.R.
    <[email protected]d> wrote:


    Why are these sensors called "one inch"? The size is 13.2 x 8.8mm. Where >>> does the 1 inch comes from? diagonal? Surface?
    from crt tubes.

    <https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2022/07/28/dealing-with-the-confu >> sing-and-misleading-1-inch-type-image-sensor>
    The odd naming convention goes back to the dimensions of a
    hypothetical glass tube that could surround the 1-inch sensor. Live
    broadcasting cameras in the 1950s used cathode-ray tubes (CRT)
    to project an image line after line. The glass tube that surrounded a
    signal plate had a 1-inch diameter, although the photosensitive area
    of the tube was only about 0.63" in diameter ­ or around 16mm. The
    typical diagonal of a modern 1-inch type sensor is, you guessed it,
    16mm (15.9mm, to be precise).

    Wow I didn't know that , hadn't really thought about it.

    Now lets define the inch. :-D

    The inch (symbol: in or ″) is a unit of length in the British imperial and the United States customary systems of measurement. It is equal to 1/36 yard or 1/12 of a foot. Derived from the Roman uncia ("twelfth"), the word inch is also sometimes
    used to translate similar units in other measurement systems, usually understood as deriving from the width of the human thumb.

    (my thumb is 21.9mm ) does that mean I'm not human :-)


    Standards for the exact length of an inch have varied in the past, but since the adoption of the international yard during the 1950s and 1960s the inch has been based on the metric system and defined as exactly 25.4 mm.
    Naa the proper standard for an inch is 3 Barleycorns.

    geoff
    I beg to differ. According to the world-renowned authority, The Register, the approved small unit of length is the Linguine (lg). Larger units include the Double-Decker Bus and the (presumably Richard) Osman.

    One inch is equivalent to 0.1818 linguines.

    I would refer you all to : https://www.theregister.com/Design/page/reg-standards-converter.html for this and other conversions.

    Cheers,
    Magani

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From geoff@21:1/5 to Magani on Wed Mar 1 14:27:05 2023
    On 1/03/2023 12:48 pm, Magani wrote:
    On Wednesday, 1 March 2023 at 6:39:31 am UTC+10, geoff wrote:
    On 1/03/2023 2:22 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 18:25:08 UTC, nospam wrote:
    In article <[email protected]r>, Carlos E.R.
    <[email protected]d> wrote:


    Why are these sensors called "one inch"? The size is 13.2 x 8.8mm. Where >>>>> does the 1 inch comes from? diagonal? Surface?
    from crt tubes.

    <https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2022/07/28/dealing-with-the-confu >>>> sing-and-misleading-1-inch-type-image-sensor>
    The odd naming convention goes back to the dimensions of a
    hypothetical glass tube that could surround the 1-inch sensor. Live
    broadcasting cameras in the 1950s used cathode-ray tubes (CRT)
    to project an image line after line. The glass tube that surrounded a
    signal plate had a 1-inch diameter, although the photosensitive area
    of the tube was only about 0.63" in diameter ­ or around 16mm. The
    typical diagonal of a modern 1-inch type sensor is, you guessed it,
    16mm (15.9mm, to be precise).

    Wow I didn't know that , hadn't really thought about it.

    Now lets define the inch. :-D

    The inch (symbol: in or ″) is a unit of length in the British imperial and the United States customary systems of measurement. It is equal to 1/36 yard or 1/12 of a foot. Derived from the Roman uncia ("twelfth"), the word inch is also sometimes
    used to translate similar units in other measurement systems, usually understood as deriving from the width of the human thumb.

    (my thumb is 21.9mm ) does that mean I'm not human :-)


    Standards for the exact length of an inch have varied in the past, but since the adoption of the international yard during the 1950s and 1960s the inch has been based on the metric system and defined as exactly 25.4 mm.
    Naa the proper standard for an inch is 3 Barleycorns.

    geoff
    I beg to differ. According to the world-renowned authority, The Register, the approved small unit of length is the Linguine (lg). Larger units include the Double-Decker Bus and the (presumably Richard) Osman.

    One inch is equivalent to 0.1818 linguines.

    I would refer you all to : https://www.theregister.com/Design/page/reg-standards-converter.html for this and other conversions.

    Cheers,
    Magani

    Unreliable - I have tasted Linguines of varying sizes, and LG have a
    range of dimension TV screens that are not advertised in their native
    standard.

    I have also tasted double-decker busses of *varying* sizes.

    I have never tasted Richard Osman, so have no opinion. But I believe his eyesight range is diminished, so he couldn't relied upon to read the
    ruler correctly anyway.

    Also, according to wiki so it must be true:

    1 international inch is equal to:
    10,000 'tenths'[a]
    1,000 thou[b] or mil[c]
    100 points[d] or gries[e]
    72 PostScript points[f]
    10,[g][e] 12,[h] or 40[i] lines
    6 computer picas[j]
    3 barleycorns[k]
    25.4 millimetres exactly (1 millimetre ≈ 0.03937008 inches)
    0.999998 US Survey inches
    1/3 or 0.333 palms
    1/4 or 0.25 hands[l]
    1/12 or 0.08333 feet
    1/36 or 0.02777 yards

    geoff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From EllisMorgan@21:1/5 to Whisky-dave on Wed Mar 1 07:42:30 2023
    On 28/02/2023 13:22, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 18:25:08 UTC, nospam wrote:
    In article <[email protected]r>, Carlos E.R.
    <[email protected]d> wrote:


    Why are these sensors called "one inch"? The size is 13.2 x 8.8mm. Where >>> does the 1 inch comes from? diagonal? Surface?
    from crt tubes.

    <https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2022/07/28/dealing-with-the-confu
    sing-and-misleading-1-inch-type-image-sensor>
    The odd naming convention goes back to the dimensions of a
    hypothetical glass tube that could surround the 1-inch sensor. Live
    broadcasting cameras in the 1950s used cathode-ray tubes (CRT)
    to project an image line after line. The glass tube that surrounded a
    signal plate had a 1-inch diameter, although the photosensitive area
    of the tube was only about 0.63" in diameter ­ or around 16mm. The
    typical diagonal of a modern 1-inch type sensor is, you guessed it,
    16mm (15.9mm, to be precise).

    Wow I didn't know that , hadn't really thought about it.

    Now lets define the inch. :-D

    The inch (symbol: in or ″) is a unit of length in the British imperial and the United States customary systems of measurement. It is equal to 1/36 yard or 1/12 of a foot. Derived from the Roman uncia ("twelfth"), the word inch is also sometimes used
    to translate similar units in other measurement systems, usually understood as deriving from the width of the human thumb.

    (my thumb is 21.9mm ) does that mean I'm not human :-)
    Maybe be small but perfectly formed?


    Standards for the exact length of an inch have varied in the past, but since the adoption of the international yard during the 1950s and 1960s the inch has been based on the metric system and defined as exactly 25.4 mm.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Whisky-dave@21:1/5 to EllisMorgan on Thu Mar 2 05:01:16 2023
    On Wednesday, 1 March 2023 at 07:42:38 UTC, EllisMorgan wrote:
    On 28/02/2023 13:22, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 18:25:08 UTC, nospam wrote:
    In article <[email protected]r>, Carlos E.R.
    <[email protected]d> wrote:


    Why are these sensors called "one inch"? The size is 13.2 x 8.8mm. Where >>> does the 1 inch comes from? diagonal? Surface?
    from crt tubes.

    <https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2022/07/28/dealing-with-the-confu >> sing-and-misleading-1-inch-type-image-sensor>
    The odd naming convention goes back to the dimensions of a
    hypothetical glass tube that could surround the 1-inch sensor. Live
    broadcasting cameras in the 1950s used cathode-ray tubes (CRT)
    to project an image line after line. The glass tube that surrounded a
    signal plate had a 1-inch diameter, although the photosensitive area
    of the tube was only about 0.63" in diameter ­ or around 16mm. The
    typical diagonal of a modern 1-inch type sensor is, you guessed it,
    16mm (15.9mm, to be precise).

    Wow I didn't know that , hadn't really thought about it.

    Now lets define the inch. :-D

    The inch (symbol: in or ″) is a unit of length in the British imperial and the United States customary systems of measurement. It is equal to 1/36 yard or 1/12 of a foot. Derived from the Roman uncia ("twelfth"), the word inch is also sometimes
    used to translate similar units in other measurement systems, usually understood as deriving from the width of the human thumb.

    (my thumb is 21.9mm ) does that mean I'm not human :-)
    Maybe be small but perfectly formed?

    So nice of you to confirm I'm perfectly formed :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Whisky-dave@21:1/5 to Magani on Thu Mar 2 04:59:10 2023
    On Tuesday, 28 February 2023 at 23:48:13 UTC, Magani wrote:
    On Wednesday, 1 March 2023 at 6:39:31 am UTC+10, geoff wrote:
    On 1/03/2023 2:22 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 18:25:08 UTC, nospam wrote:
    In article <[email protected]r>, Carlos E.R.
    <[email protected]d> wrote:


    Why are these sensors called "one inch"? The size is 13.2 x 8.8mm. Where
    does the 1 inch comes from? diagonal? Surface?
    from crt tubes.

    <https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2022/07/28/dealing-with-the-confu
    sing-and-misleading-1-inch-type-image-sensor>
    The odd naming convention goes back to the dimensions of a
    hypothetical glass tube that could surround the 1-inch sensor. Live
    broadcasting cameras in the 1950s used cathode-ray tubes (CRT)
    to project an image line after line. The glass tube that surrounded a >> signal plate had a 1-inch diameter, although the photosensitive area
    of the tube was only about 0.63" in diameter ­ or around 16mm. The
    typical diagonal of a modern 1-inch type sensor is, you guessed it,
    16mm (15.9mm, to be precise).

    Wow I didn't know that , hadn't really thought about it.

    Now lets define the inch. :-D

    The inch (symbol: in or ″) is a unit of length in the British imperial and the United States customary systems of measurement. It is equal to 1/36 yard or 1/12 of a foot. Derived from the Roman uncia ("twelfth"), the word inch is also sometimes
    used to translate similar units in other measurement systems, usually understood as deriving from the width of the human thumb.

    (my thumb is 21.9mm ) does that mean I'm not human :-)


    Standards for the exact length of an inch have varied in the past, but since the adoption of the international yard during the 1950s and 1960s the inch has been based on the metric system and defined as exactly 25.4 mm.
    Naa the proper standard for an inch is 3 Barleycorns.

    geoff
    I beg to differ. According to the world-renowned authority, The Register, the approved small unit of length is the Linguine (lg). Larger units include the Double-Decker Bus and the (presumably Richard) Osman.

    One inch is equivalent to 0.1818 linguines.

    I would refer you all to : https://www.theregister.com/Design/page/reg-standards-converter.html for this and other conversions.

    Cheers,
    Magani

    Cheers Brillant, so please the unit of time the Truss has been adopted.
    Non UKers may not understand this highly important unit of time.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From geoff@21:1/5 to Whisky-dave on Fri Mar 3 11:12:03 2023
    On 3/03/2023 1:59 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Tuesday, 28 February 2023 at 23:48:13 UTC, Magani wrote:
    On Wednesday, 1 March 2023 at 6:39:31 am UTC+10, geoff wrote:
    On 1/03/2023 2:22 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 18:25:08 UTC, nospam wrote:
    In article <[email protected]r>, Carlos E.R.
    <[email protected]d> wrote:


    Why are these sensors called "one inch"? The size is 13.2 x 8.8mm. Where >>>>>> does the 1 inch comes from? diagonal? Surface?
    from crt tubes.

    <https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2022/07/28/dealing-with-the-confu >>>>> sing-and-misleading-1-inch-type-image-sensor>
    The odd naming convention goes back to the dimensions of a
    hypothetical glass tube that could surround the 1-inch sensor. Live
    broadcasting cameras in the 1950s used cathode-ray tubes (CRT)
    to project an image line after line. The glass tube that surrounded a >>>>> signal plate had a 1-inch diameter, although the photosensitive area >>>>> of the tube was only about 0.63" in diameter ­ or around 16mm. The
    typical diagonal of a modern 1-inch type sensor is, you guessed it,
    16mm (15.9mm, to be precise).

    Wow I didn't know that , hadn't really thought about it.

    Now lets define the inch. :-D

    The inch (symbol: in or ″) is a unit of length in the British imperial and the United States customary systems of measurement. It is equal to 1/36 yard or 1/12 of a foot. Derived from the Roman uncia ("twelfth"), the word inch is also sometimes
    used to translate similar units in other measurement systems, usually understood as deriving from the width of the human thumb.

    (my thumb is 21.9mm ) does that mean I'm not human :-)


    Standards for the exact length of an inch have varied in the past, but since the adoption of the international yard during the 1950s and 1960s the inch has been based on the metric system and defined as exactly 25.4 mm.
    Naa the proper standard for an inch is 3 Barleycorns.

    geoff
    I beg to differ. According to the world-renowned authority, The Register, the approved small unit of length is the Linguine (lg). Larger units include the Double-Decker Bus and the (presumably Richard) Osman.

    One inch is equivalent to 0.1818 linguines.

    I would refer you all to : https://www.theregister.com/Design/page/reg-standards-converter.html for this and other conversions.

    Cheers,
    Magani

    Cheers Brillant, so please the unit of time the Truss has been adopted.
    Non UKers may not understand this highly important unit of time.


    Too short to be of practical use .

    geoff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Whisky-dave@21:1/5 to geoff on Fri Mar 3 04:28:32 2023
    On Thursday, 2 March 2023 at 22:12:15 UTC, geoff wrote:
    On 3/03/2023 1:59 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Tuesday, 28 February 2023 at 23:48:13 UTC, Magani wrote:
    On Wednesday, 1 March 2023 at 6:39:31 am UTC+10, geoff wrote:
    On 1/03/2023 2:22 am, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 18:25:08 UTC, nospam wrote:
    In article <[email protected]r>, Carlos E.R.
    <[email protected]d> wrote:


    Why are these sensors called "one inch"? The size is 13.2 x 8.8mm. Where
    does the 1 inch comes from? diagonal? Surface?
    from crt tubes.

    <https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2022/07/28/dealing-with-the-confu
    sing-and-misleading-1-inch-type-image-sensor>
    The odd naming convention goes back to the dimensions of a
    hypothetical glass tube that could surround the 1-inch sensor. Live >>>>> broadcasting cameras in the 1950s used cathode-ray tubes (CRT)
    to project an image line after line. The glass tube that surrounded a >>>>> signal plate had a 1-inch diameter, although the photosensitive area >>>>> of the tube was only about 0.63" in diameter ­ or around 16mm. The >>>>> typical diagonal of a modern 1-inch type sensor is, you guessed it, >>>>> 16mm (15.9mm, to be precise).

    Wow I didn't know that , hadn't really thought about it.

    Now lets define the inch. :-D

    The inch (symbol: in or ″) is a unit of length in the British imperial and the United States customary systems of measurement. It is equal to 1/36 yard or 1/12 of a foot. Derived from the Roman uncia ("twelfth"), the word inch is also sometimes
    used to translate similar units in other measurement systems, usually understood as deriving from the width of the human thumb.

    (my thumb is 21.9mm ) does that mean I'm not human :-)


    Standards for the exact length of an inch have varied in the past, but since the adoption of the international yard during the 1950s and 1960s the inch has been based on the metric system and defined as exactly 25.4 mm.
    Naa the proper standard for an inch is 3 Barleycorns.

    geoff
    I beg to differ. According to the world-renowned authority, The Register, the approved small unit of length is the Linguine (lg). Larger units include the Double-Decker Bus and the (presumably Richard) Osman.

    One inch is equivalent to 0.1818 linguines.

    I would refer you all to : https://www.theregister.com/Design/page/reg-standards-converter.html for this and other conversions.

    Cheers,
    Magani

    Cheers Brillant, so please the unit of time the Truss has been adopted. Non UKers may not understand this highly important unit of time.
    Too short to be of practical use .

    geoff


    True being only 11.8 Linguine tall, bloody short arse

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)