I think it's sometimes the case that where a conductor plays a work in concert and it's broadcast, and he then goes into the studio to make a commercial recording of the piece, and both are issued on CD, the performance in front of an audience is often
the best of the two. Here is one example from 1970, with the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic in Rotterdam playing the Franck Symphony conducted by Leopold Stokowski. He recorded it for Decca 'Phase 4 Stereo' a few days later, though they labelled it as
being by the Hilversum Radio Philharmonic since it was recorded in the Hilversum Radio Studios. I suppose at the age of 88, Stokowski could be forgiven for slowing down but the 'Medici' CD of the live broadcast gives a total timing of 39:24 while the '
Cala' CD of the subsequent studio recording comes to 43:42. Here's the much more exciting Rotterdam performance ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alziMuQSNTA&t=379s

Talking of timings, the Paray / Detroit 'Mercury' of the work is evidently the fastest on record at 33:58 ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oQk_vHXrb0&t=33s

The slowest would seem to be Giulini and the Vienna Philharmonic at 47:01 ... Quite a difference! ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHCh4fyjOlY&t=46s

Any others faster or slower?

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Henry Wood, New Queen’s Hall Orchestra (1924, 33')
Piero Coppola, Orchestre Symphonique des Concerts Pasdeloup (1924, 31’) Charles Munch, Orchestre de la Société des Concerts du Conservatoire (1946, 34')
Charles Munch, Orchestre National de France (live, 1967, 32')

I don't recall if the first two may have been slightly cut, but I don't believe so; the Munch ones weren't.

On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 11:11:33 AM UTC-4, Kerrison wrote:

I think it's sometimes the case that where a conductor plays a work in concert and it's broadcast, and he then goes into the studio to make a commercial recording of the piece, and both are issued on CD, the performance in front of an audience is often

the best of the two. Here is one example from 1970, with the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic in Rotterdam playing the Franck Symphony conducted by Leopold Stokowski. He recorded it for Decca 'Phase 4 Stereo' a few days later, though they labelled it as
being by the Hilversum Radio Philharmonic since it was recorded in the Hilversum Radio Studios. I suppose at the age of 88, Stokowski could be forgiven for slowing down but the 'Medici' CD of the live broadcast gives a total timing of 39:24 while the '
Cala' CD of the subsequent studio recording comes to 43:42. Here's the much more exciting Rotterdam performance ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alziMuQSNTA&t=379s

Talking of timings, the Paray / Detroit 'Mercury' of the work is evidently the fastest on record at 33:58 ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oQk_vHXrb0&t=33s

The slowest would seem to be Giulini and the Vienna Philharmonic at 47:01 ... Quite a difference! ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHCh4fyjOlY&t=46s

Any others faster or slower?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 6:43:41 PM UTC+1, peter gutmann wrote:

Henry Wood, New Queen’s Hall Orchestra (1924, 33')
Piero Coppola, Orchestre Symphonique des Concerts Pasdeloup (1924, 31’) Charles Munch, Orchestre de la Société des Concerts du Conservatoire (1946, 34')
Charles Munch, Orchestre National de France (live, 1967, 32')

I don't recall if the first two may have been slightly cut, but I don't believe so; the Munch ones weren't.

Any others faster or slower?

Thanks. There are two Munch versions on YouTube. The 1967 live ORTF version is indeed timed at 32:33 and someone in the 'comments' underneath has said "world's fastest version" ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl3YKw4YH8k

There's also his 1958 Boston SO RCA LP and that is timed at 36:31 in the YouTube upload ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs2YrE2yo6M&t=71s

Actually, YouTube has yet more Munch versions, with the Czech Philharmonic and the Rotterdam Philharmonic. I see also there's a Mazur / NYPO performance that clocks in at 37 minutes, about the same duration as Toscanini / NBC, also on YouTube. There's
also the 1959 Boult version for Reader's Digest, reissued on Chesky, and he doesn't hang around either, also at 37 minutes. There are yet more speedy performances on YouTube, all just over 36 minutes, from the likes of Albert Wolff in 1931 and Mengelberg
in 1940. No sign of Coppola but somewhat surprisingly the Wood acoustics from 1924 are there, with the comment that "at just under 31 minutes, with no cuts at all, it is possibly the fast performance on record." It looks like he's right about that! ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ego2qZH250Y

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-05-01 9:11 a.m., Kerrison wrote:

I think it's sometimes the case that where a conductor plays a work in concert and it's broadcast, and he then goes into the studio to make a commercial recording of the piece, and both are issued on CD, the performance in front of an audience is often

the best of the two. Here is one example from 1970, with the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic in Rotterdam playing the Franck Symphony conducted by Leopold Stokowski. He recorded it for Decca 'Phase 4 Stereo' a few days later, though they labelled it as
being by the Hilversum Radio Philharmonic since it was recorded in the Hilversum Radio Studios. I suppose at the age of 88, Stokowski could be forgiven for slowing down but the 'Medici' CD of the live broadcast gives a total timing of 39:24 while the '
Cala' CD of the subsequent studio recording comes to 43:42. Here's the much more exciting Rotterdam performance ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alziMuQSNTA&t=379s

Talking of timings, the Paray / Detroit 'Mercury' of the work is evidently the fastest on record at 33:58 ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oQk_vHXrb0&t=33s

The slowest would seem to be Giulini and the Vienna Philharmonic at 47:01 ... Quite a difference! ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHCh4fyjOlY&t=46s

Any others faster or slower?

Beecham ONRF 38:44
Beecham LPO 37:37

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 6:09:15 PM UTC-4, Graham wrote:

On 2023-05-01 9:11 a.m., Kerrison wrote:

I think it's sometimes the case that where a conductor plays a work in concert and it's broadcast, and he then goes into the studio to make a commercial recording of the piece, and both are issued on CD, the performance in front of an audience is

often the best of the two. Here is one example from 1970, with the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic in Rotterdam playing the Franck Symphony conducted by Leopold Stokowski. He recorded it for Decca 'Phase 4 Stereo' a few days later, though they labelled it
as being by the Hilversum Radio Philharmonic since it was recorded in the Hilversum Radio Studios. I suppose at the age of 88, Stokowski could be forgiven for slowing down but the 'Medici' CD of the live broadcast gives a total timing of 39:24 while the '
Cala' CD of the subsequent studio recording comes to 43:42. Here's the much more exciting Rotterdam performance ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alziMuQSNTA&t=379s

Talking of timings, the Paray / Detroit 'Mercury' of the work is evidently the fastest on record at 33:58 ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oQk_vHXrb0&t=33s

The slowest would seem to be Giulini and the Vienna Philharmonic at 47:01 ... Quite a difference! ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHCh4fyjOlY&t=46s

Any others faster or slower?

Beecham ONRF 38:44
Beecham LPO 37:37

There was an early electrical by the conductorially-named Rhené Baton. I have heard it, but cannot find any online transfer of it, and certainly no commercial ones. My dim memory of it is that parts were faster than many postwar versions.

DH

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 12:01:28 AM UTC+1, drh8h wrote:

On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 6:09:15 PM UTC-4, Graham wrote:

On 2023-05-01 9:11 a.m., Kerrison wrote:

I think it's sometimes the case that where a conductor plays a work in concert and it's broadcast, and he then goes into the studio to make a commercial recording of the piece, and both are issued on CD, the performance in front of an audience is

often the best of the two. Here is one example from 1970, with the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic in Rotterdam playing the Franck Symphony conducted by Leopold Stokowski. He recorded it for Decca 'Phase 4 Stereo' a few days later, though they labelled it
as being by the Hilversum Radio Philharmonic since it was recorded in the Hilversum Radio Studios. I suppose at the age of 88, Stokowski could be forgiven for slowing down but the 'Medici' CD of the live broadcast gives a total timing of 39:24 while the '
Cala' CD of the subsequent studio recording comes to 43:42. Here's the much more exciting Rotterdam performance ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alziMuQSNTA&t=379s

Talking of timings, the Paray / Detroit 'Mercury' of the work is evidently the fastest on record at 33:58 ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oQk_vHXrb0&t=33s

The slowest would seem to be Giulini and the Vienna Philharmonic at 47:01 ... Quite a difference! ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHCh4fyjOlY&t=46s

Any others faster or slower?

Beecham ONRF 38:44
Beecham LPO 37:37

There was an early electrical by the conductorially-named Rhené Baton. I have heard it, but cannot find any online transfer of it, and certainly no commercial ones. My dim memory of it is that parts were faster than many postwar versions.

DH

The Baton / Pasdeloup Orchestra 78s haven't made it to YouTube unfortunately but the first American recording has. It's Victor Set M-22 from 1927 with Stokowski and his Philadelphians. It was one of those early electric sets in which he introduced the
work, doubtless to millions who'd never yet heard it, with piano illustrations of the various themes, along with his acquired mid-European accent. These old 78s sound very good for their age ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPeHAG7NDzc

Stokowski re-recorded the work in 1935, presumably because he liked it so much or because RCA was by then getting better sonics out of its mikes. I imagine this upload is of Mark Obert-Thorn's 1994 'Biddulph' CD transfer. At any rate, the comment
underneath says "Excellent sound" so it probably is! ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8rCIoBZbMs&t=26s

Stokowski's only other recording, in Decca's "Phase 4 Stereo" from 1970, is also on YouTube but most critics seem to have put the Monteux / Chicago recording at the top of the Franck Symphony list ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7obO7XyyQc&t=32s

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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