https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/apr/24/simon-rattle-barbican-speech-we-are-facing-a-fight-for-existence-uk-classical-music-cuts
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/apr/24/simon-rattle-barbican-speech-we-are-facing-a-fight-for-existence-uk-classical-music-cuts
On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 9:02:05 AM UTC-7, Mr. Mike wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/apr/24/simon-rattle-barbican-speech-we-are-facing-a-fight-for-existence-uk-classical-music-cuts
What else is new?
dk
Why did "the cuts have to come" and why didn't they come in Wales and Scotland as well? Why are they payng a former soccer player an obscene amount of money to chat about the day's soccer matches on Saturdays?
Andrew Clarke, Canberra
The cuts had to come. In fact Rattle, when he arrived at the LSO, asked for heavy spending to enhance his new tenure, so he's guilty of draining the budget as well. Not the one to talk.
Sad to see the BBC Singers disbanded. They were good and did a lot of good work.
John Wilson could have taken over the BBC Concert Orchestra, but didn't. Interesting.
The ENO is due for the chop at some point, probably fairly soon.
On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 11:48:16 UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:
Why did "the cuts have to come" and why didn't they come in
Wales and Scotland as well? Why are they payng a former
soccer player an obscene amount of money to chat about
the day's soccer matches on Saturdays?
Andrew Clarke, Canberra
Much as we all love classical music,
it can't compete with football.
On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 11:48:16 UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:
Why did "the cuts have to come" and why didn't they come in Wales and Scotland as well? Why are they payng a former soccer player an obscene amount of money to chat about the day's soccer matches on Saturdays?
Andrew Clarke, Canberra
Much as we all love classical music, it can't compete with football. The BBC need audiences, and sport is where you get that.
Classical music and opera is just so damned expensive in relation to its dwindling audiences and recording income. I don't see any significant growing interest from the younger generations. The world is going towards fast rather than deep.
On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 4:09:11 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 11:48:16 UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:
Why did "the cuts have to come" and why didn't they come in
Wales and Scotland as well? Why are they payng a former
soccer player an obscene amount of money to chat about
the day's soccer matches on Saturdays?
Andrew Clarke, Canberra
Much as we all love classical music,Outlaw football. What
it can't compete with football.
a silly waste of energy!
Rugby abd soccer too!
dk
On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 3:24:36 AM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:and the promotion of music of most kinds was part of that, whether it was Scottish country dance music or light music (think Leroy Anderson) or popular music or Schoenberg. Recently, however, it has followed commercial broadcasting down-market, which it
On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 9:02:05 AM UTC-7, Mr. Mike wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/apr/24/simon-rattle-barbican-speech-we-are-facing-a-fight-for-existence-uk-classical-music-cuts
What else is new?
dkThis is new, and it's significant, because the BBC has been of crucial importance to Britain's musical life since its inception. Its original purpose, famously pronounced by its Director-General, Lord Reith, was "to entertain, to inform and to educate"
The Brits owe it to people like Sir Simon and many, many others that the BBC has seen fit to, at least temporarily, reverse its decision.
In my opinion, John Wilson's resurrection of the Sinfonia of London as, it would seem, an entirely private venture, is highly significant.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 11:48:16 UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:
Why did "the cuts have to come" and why didn't they come in Wales and Scotland as well? Why are they payng a former soccer player an obscene amount of money to chat about the day's soccer matches on Saturdays?
Andrew Clarke, Canberra
Much as we all love classical music, it can't compete with football. The BBC need audiences, and sport is where you get that.
Classical music and opera is just so damned expensive in relation to its dwindling audiences and recording income. I don't see any significant growing interest from the younger generations. The world is going towards fast rather than deep.
On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 4:09:11 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 11:48:16 UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:
Why did "the cuts have to come" and why didn't they come in Wales and Scotland as well? Why are they payng a former soccer player an obscene amount of money to chat about the day's soccer matches on Saturdays?
Andrew Clarke, Canberra
Much as we all love classical music, it can't compete with football. The BBC need audiences, and sport is where you get that.
Classical music and opera is just so damned expensive in relation to its dwindling audiences and recording income. I don't see any significant growing interest from the younger generations. The world is going towards fast rather than deep.In a competitive world, isn't everything turned into a race? :
- We can neither put back the clock nor slow down our forward speed, and as we are already flying pilotless, on instrument controls, it is even too late to ask where we are going. (Stravinsky,d.1971)
And in a competitive world, if once upon a time everyone had to jump on the bandwagon to be a success, don't they now have to jump on the bandwagon to survive?
On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 4:09:11 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 11:48:16 UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:
Why did "the cuts have to come" and why didn't they come in Wales and Scotland as well? Why are they payng a former soccer player an obscene amount of money to chat about the day's soccer matches on Saturdays?
Andrew Clarke, Canberra
Much as we all love classical music, it can't compete with football. The BBC need audiences, and sport is where you get that.
Classical music and opera is just so damned expensive in relation to its dwindling audiences and recording income. I don't see any significant growing interest from the younger generations. The world is going towards fast rather than deep.In a competitive world, isn't everything turned into a race? :
- We can neither put back the clock nor slow down our forward speed, and as we are already flying pilotless, on instrument controls, it is even too late to ask where we are going. (Stravinsky,d.1971)
And in a competitive world, if once upon a time everyone had to jump on the bandwagon to be a success, don't they now have to jump on the bandwagon to survive?Do we really need to be reminded that in a capitalist world, every decision becomes just another 'business' decision?
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 2:30:13 AM UTC+10, gggg gggg wrote:the BBC iView app to stream the BBC online. Watching TV - even a commercial channel - without a licence is a criminal offence, and the magistrate's courts of Britain are choked with cases brought against single mothers, old age pensioners and other
On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 4:09:11 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 11:48:16 UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:
Why did "the cuts have to come" and why didn't they come in Wales and Scotland as well? Why are they payng a former soccer player an obscene amount of money to chat about the day's soccer matches on Saturdays?
Andrew Clarke, Canberra
Much as we all love classical music, it can't compete with football. The BBC need audiences, and sport is where you get that.
Classical music and opera is just so damned expensive in relation to its dwindling audiences and recording income. I don't see any significant growing interest from the younger generations. The world is going towards fast rather than deep.In a competitive world, isn't everything turned into a race? :
- We can neither put back the clock nor slow down our forward speed, and as we are already flying pilotless, on instrument controls, it is even too late to ask where we are going. (Stravinsky,d.1971)
The BBC, like its Australian equivalent, considers itself rather radical in an Arts and Crafty sort of way. It's funded by a licence fee which has to be paid by anyone who owns a TV set, whether they watch the BBC or not or anybody who has installedAnd in a competitive world, if once upon a time everyone had to jump on the bandwagon to be a success, don't they now have to jump on the bandwagon to survive?Do we really need to be reminded that in a capitalist world, every decision becomes just another 'business' decision?
Meanwhile in the UK the natives are getting restless. Why, many are asking, do we have to pay for a broadcasting service that we never watch? Why not make the BBC into a subscription service? And given the rapidly-declining ratings for ABC Radio andTelevision - ABC Radio National is now beyond parody - many Australians would like the ABC to be funded by subscription too.
What interests me in all of this is the success of people like F-X Roth and John Wilson who have raised enough funding to not only create new orchestras - and in the former case a warehouse full of historic instruments - but to make recordings in anage where the orchestra pays the recording company and not the other way round.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 2:30:13 AM UTC+10, gggg gggg wrote:the BBC iView app to stream the BBC online. Watching TV - even a commercial channel - without a licence is a criminal offence, and the magistrate's courts of Britain are choked with cases brought against single mothers, old age pensioners and other
On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 4:09:11 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 11:48:16 UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:
Why did "the cuts have to come" and why didn't they come in Wales and Scotland as well? Why are they payng a former soccer player an obscene amount of money to chat about the day's soccer matches on Saturdays?
Andrew Clarke, Canberra
Much as we all love classical music, it can't compete with football. The BBC need audiences, and sport is where you get that.
Classical music and opera is just so damned expensive in relation to its dwindling audiences and recording income. I don't see any significant growing interest from the younger generations. The world is going towards fast rather than deep.In a competitive world, isn't everything turned into a race? :
- We can neither put back the clock nor slow down our forward speed, and as we are already flying pilotless, on instrument controls, it is even too late to ask where we are going. (Stravinsky,d.1971)
The BBC, like its Australian equivalent, considers itself rather radical in an Arts and Crafty sort of way. It's funded by a licence fee which has to be paid by anyone who owns a TV set, whether they watch the BBC or not or anybody who has installedAnd in a competitive world, if once upon a time everyone had to jump on the bandwagon to be a success, don't they now have to jump on the bandwagon to survive?Do we really need to be reminded that in a capitalist world, every decision becomes just another 'business' decision?
Meanwhile in the UK the natives are getting restless. Why, many are asking, do we have to pay for a broadcasting service that we never watch? Why not make the BBC into a subscription service? And given the rapidly-declining ratings for ABC Radio andTelevision - ABC Radio National is now beyond parody - many Australians would like the ABC to be funded by subscription too.
What interests me in all of this is the success of people like F-X Roth and John Wilson who have raised enough funding to not only create new orchestras - and in the former case a warehouse full of historic instruments - but to make recordings in anage where the orchestra pays the recording company and not the other way round.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 8:36:34 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:the BBC iView app to stream the BBC online. Watching TV - even a commercial channel - without a licence is a criminal offence, and the magistrate's courts of Britain are choked with cases brought against single mothers, old age pensioners and other
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 2:30:13 AM UTC+10, gggg gggg wrote:
On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 4:09:11 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 11:48:16 UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:
Why did "the cuts have to come" and why didn't they come in Wales and Scotland as well? Why are they payng a former soccer player an obscene amount of money to chat about the day's soccer matches on Saturdays?
Andrew Clarke, Canberra
Much as we all love classical music, it can't compete with football. The BBC need audiences, and sport is where you get that.
Classical music and opera is just so damned expensive in relation to its dwindling audiences and recording income. I don't see any significant growing interest from the younger generations. The world is going towards fast rather than deep.In a competitive world, isn't everything turned into a race? :
- We can neither put back the clock nor slow down our forward speed, and as we are already flying pilotless, on instrument controls, it is even too late to ask where we are going. (Stravinsky,d.1971)
The BBC, like its Australian equivalent, considers itself rather radical in an Arts and Crafty sort of way. It's funded by a licence fee which has to be paid by anyone who owns a TV set, whether they watch the BBC or not or anybody who has installedAnd in a competitive world, if once upon a time everyone had to jump on the bandwagon to be a success, don't they now have to jump on the bandwagon to survive?Do we really need to be reminded that in a capitalist world, every decision becomes just another 'business' decision?
Television - ABC Radio National is now beyond parody - many Australians would like the ABC to be funded by subscription too.Meanwhile in the UK the natives are getting restless. Why, many are asking, do we have to pay for a broadcasting service that we never watch? Why not make the BBC into a subscription service? And given the rapidly-declining ratings for ABC Radio and
age where the orchestra pays the recording company and not the other way round.What interests me in all of this is the success of people like F-X Roth and John Wilson who have raised enough funding to not only create new orchestras - and in the former case a warehouse full of historic instruments - but to make recordings in an
Andrew ClarkeSimilar situation in Japan:
Canberra
https://morethanrelo.com/en/the-nhk-man-and-nhk-fee-faq/
I'm broadly sympathetic to the idea of subscriber funding.
It used to be argued that you needed public
funding to finance expensive productions
for minority tastes. But if broadcasters like
the BBC are only interested in the popular
market, or yoof culture, that justification no
longer applies.
As to minority vs. majority tastes, the
matter could be addressed through
taste reversal programs. If people's
genders can be changed, so can
their tastes. This can be done as
an easy out-patient surgery. Check
in at 9 am and leave at 1 pm with
a pair of new ears and a tiny BT
receiver implanted in one's brain.
Have it covered by Medicare, and
offer discounts and promotions to
everyone else.
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:23:32 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
I'm broadly sympathetic to the idea of subscriber funding.
Why doesn't Sir Rattle put his money where his
rattle is, and contribute to the funding of the
orchestras? Didn't Thomas Beecham do this?
It used to be argued that you needed public
funding to finance expensive productions
for minority tastes. But if broadcasters like
the BBC are only interested in the popular
market, or yoof culture, that justification no
longer applies.
A significant part of the problem are the
outrageous fees paid to conductors. Sir
Rattle's and other conductors' pay is
probably as much as a third, if not
more, of an orchestra's total pay. Does
anyone believe a Boringboim is really
worth that much?
Concerning the comment "appealing to a younger audience":
- The more you pander to what is, presumably, the taste of young people, the more you corrupt.
Ruth Rendell
- The good displeases us when we have not yet grown up to it.
Nietzsche
- The age in which we live, this non-stop distraction, is making it more impossible for the young generation to ever have the curiosity or
discipline because you need to be alone to find out anything.
Vivienne Westwood
It's usually grumpy old Jewish men
who say "we must quit what we are
successful at to appeal to young people".
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:23:32 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
I'm broadly sympathetic to the idea of subscriber funding.Why doesn't Sir Rattle put his money where his
rattle is, and contribute to the funding of the
orchestras? Didn't Thomas Beecham do this?
It used to be argued that you needed publicA significant part of the problem are the
funding to finance expensive productions
for minority tastes. But if broadcasters like
the BBC are only interested in the popular
market, or yoof culture, that justification no
longer applies.
outrageous fees paid to conductors. Sir
Rattle's and other conductors' pay is
probably as much as a third, if not
more, of an orchestra's total pay. Does
anyone believe a Boringboim is really
worth that much?
As to minority vs. majority tastes, the
matter could be addressed through
taste reversal programs. If people's
genders can be changed, so can
their tastes. This can be done as
an easy out-patient surgery. Check
in at 9 am and leave at 1 pm with
a pair of new ears and a tiny BT
receiver implanted in one's brain.
Have it covered by Medicare, and
offer discounts and promotions to
everyone else.
dk
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:23:32 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
Why doesn't Sir Rattle put his money where hisrattle is, and
I'm broadly sympathetic to the idea of subscriber funding.
contribute to the funding of theorchestras? Didn't Thomas Beecham do
this?
It used to be argued that you needed public funding to financeA significant part of the problem are the outrageous fees paid to conductors. Sir Rattle's and other conductors' pay is probably as
expensive productions for minority tastes. But if broadcasters like
the BBC are only interested in the popular market, or yoof culture,
that justification no longer applies.
much as a third, if not more, of an orchestra's total pay. Does
anyone believe a Boringboim is really worth that much? As to
minority vs. majority tastes, the matter could be addressed through
taste reversal programs. If people's genders can be changed, so can
their tastes. This can be done as an easy out-patient surgery. Check
in at 9 am and leave at 1 pm with a pair of new ears and a tiny BT receiver implanted in one's brain. Have it covered by Medicare, and
offer discounts and promotions to everyone else.
dk
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 2:21:31 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:23:32 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
I'm broadly sympathetic to the idea of subscriber funding.
Why doesn't Sir Rattle put his money where his
rattle is, and contribute to the funding of the
orchestras? Didn't Thomas Beecham do this?
It used to be argued that you needed public
funding to finance expensive productions
for minority tastes. But if broadcasters like
the BBC are only interested in the popular
market, or yoof culture, that justification no
longer applies.
A significant part of the problem are thehttps://slippedisc.com/2018/03/what-musicians-earn-in-german-orchestras/
outrageous fees paid to conductors. Sir
Rattle's and other conductors' pay is
probably as much as a third, if not
more, of an orchestra's total pay. Does
anyone believe a Boringboim is really
worth that much?
https://work.chron.com/much-money-orchestra-musicians-make-15161.html
https://theviolinchannel.com/riccardo-muti-is-highest-paid-music-director-us-mcmanus-adaptristration/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/27/arts/music/orchestra-conductors-high-salaries.html
https://www.cmuse.org/who-gets-paid-the-most-in-an-orchestra/
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/careers-in-classical-music
On 2023-04-26 21:21:27 +0000, Dan Koren said:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:23:32 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
I'm broadly sympathetic to the idea of subscriber funding.Why doesn't Sir Rattle put his money where hisrattle is, and
contribute to the funding of theorchestras? Didn't Thomas Beecham do
this?
It used to be argued that you needed public funding to finance
expensive productions for minority tastes. But if broadcasters like
the BBC are only interested in the popular market, or yoof culture,
that justification no longer applies.
A significant part of the problem are the outrageous fees paid to conductors. Sir Rattle's and other conductors' pay is probably as
much as a third, if not more, of an orchestra's total pay. Does
anyone believe a Boringboim is really worth that much? As to
minority vs. majority tastes, the matter could be addressed through
taste reversal programs. If people's genders can be changed, so can
their tastes. This can be done as an easy out-patient surgery. Check
in at 9 am and leave at 1 pm with a pair of new ears and a tiny BT receiver implanted in one's brain. Have it covered by Medicare, and
offer discounts and promotions to everyone else.
My post-taste reversal pronouns are hear/hear.
During his first term at the Berlin Philharmonic,
Sir Simon successfully worked hard to improve
his musicians' pay and conditions.
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 7:21:31 AM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:founded, and in unsuccessful attempts to create a British opera season, which the similarly rich Christie family were eventually to achieve at Glyndebourne. He had a cavalier attitude to money, which eventually led to his bankrupcy.
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:23:32 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
I'm broadly sympathetic to the idea of subscriber funding.Why doesn't Sir Rattle put his money where his
rattle is, and contribute to the funding of the
orchestras? Didn't Thomas Beecham do this?
It used to be argued that you needed publicA significant part of the problem are the
funding to finance expensive productions
for minority tastes. But if broadcasters like
the BBC are only interested in the popular
market, or yoof culture, that justification no
longer applies.
outrageous fees paid to conductors. Sir
Rattle's and other conductors' pay is
probably as much as a third, if not
more, of an orchestra's total pay. Does
anyone believe a Boringboim is really
worth that much?
As to minority vs. majority tastes, the
matter could be addressed through
taste reversal programs. If people's
genders can be changed, so can
their tastes. This can be done as
an easy out-patient surgery. Check
in at 9 am and leave at 1 pm with
a pair of new ears and a tiny BT
receiver implanted in one's brain.
Have it covered by Medicare, and
offer discounts and promotions to
everyone else.
dkSir Thomas inherited a fortune from his father, who was the founder of a hugely successful and widely advertised brand of patent medicine, Beecham's Pills. He spent it on the London Philharmonic and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestras, one of which he
Why Sir Simon should contribute to the upkeep of orchestras which are indirectly publicly funded, and for which he has no responsibility, is beyond me. As for the astronomical fees paid to conductors, particularly in the USA, this is all part of theHeldendirigent tradition, as previously discussed. If there's no big-name conductor, there's no audience, it's assumed. So big-name conductors can name their price...
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