https://youtu.be/SfS14rpl0OI
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam

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On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 4:14:42 PM UTC, Roland van Gaalen wrote:

https://youtu.be/SfS14rpl0OI
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam

I've only heard one other organ transcription, by Walter Börner, here played on the Groningen Schnitger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEArrg7Jp-Y&ab_channel=MrOrganghost

Neither of them seem particularly Bachian to me. I very much like the Schnitger organ. It works well enough on harpsichord though.

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On 12/9/22 11:14 AM, Roland van Gaalen wrote:

https://youtu.be/SfS14rpl0OI
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam

This was really great - I appreciate your sharing it.

I saw a comment on YouTube by Julian Brelsford that summarizes how I feel:

"This is such an amazing piece and I love how this version takes
advantage of so many capabilities of the organ with different voices and registers. It's also interesting to hear the repeat of the initial chord progression, which is made clear by the way the organ here can play the
chords clearly (where in the violin they can be rather obscure since the
violin can't always play a three note chord & a melody at the same time)."

Thanks again!

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On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 8:14:33 AM UTC+1, Notsure01 wrote:

where in the violin they can be rather obscure since the
violin can't always play a three note chord & a melody at the same time)."

Oh dear. Why not go straight to a symphony orchestra and let them spell it out?

The Chaconne doesn't really do "melody" and accompaniment. The theme is supposed to be IN the chords. Not over the chords.
Few pieces of Bach's are as instrument-specific as the six violin partitas and sonatas, and the Chaconne is if you will the summit of this. The technical challenges (just four strings) are an integral part of the music. The idea is to overcome them with
musicality. Not just by getting 'a bigger boat'.
To me this whole thing smacks of 1900. Let's go and look if some granddad conductor mutilated this piece into a dramatic orchestral piece, for conductor showboating - sorry, 'educational purposes'.
Of course the Chaconne is part and climax of a five-piece partita, but I guess that would challenge the attention span too much.

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BTW I understand keyboard players, even organists, wanting to 'try' this piece, since it's rather special. It happens sometimes I try a keyboard thing on the violin.

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On 12/10/22 2:34 AM, Herman wrote:

On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 8:14:33 AM UTC+1, Notsure01 wrote:

where in the violin they can be rather obscure since the
violin can't always play a three note chord & a melody at the same time)." >>

Oh dear. Why not go straight to a symphony orchestra and let them spell it out?

The Chaconne doesn't really do "melody" and accompaniment. The theme is supposed to be IN the chords. Not over the chords.
Few pieces of Bach's are as instrument-specific as the six violin partitas and sonatas, and the Chaconne is if you will the summit of this. The technical challenges (just four strings) are an integral part of the music. The idea is to overcome them

with musicality. Not just by getting 'a bigger boat'.

To me this whole thing smacks of 1900. Let's go and look if some granddad conductor mutilated this piece into a dramatic orchestral piece, for conductor showboating - sorry, 'educational purposes'.
Of course the Chaconne is part and climax of a five-piece partita, but I guess that would challenge the attention span too much.

Well, I just quoted the guy and although I probably wouldn't put the
thought quite the same way, I agree with him that this transcription
clarifies the texture of the Chaconne.

And I agree with you - I generally do - that part of the amazing wonder
of the violin original is the brilliant way Bach creates this beautiful composition when limited to just four strings.

But I'm not sure if you are against transcriptions in general - after
all, where would those piano folks be without the Busoni?

I may be just an ignoramus, but my understanding is that composers in
the Baroque era would - maybe by necessity - transcribe music all of the
time - and that Bach himself did this frequently. I've heard that there
is a theory that the Toccata & Fugue, BWV 565 (D minor) was itself
originally for violin, and then transcribed by Bach for Organ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb574T4nROg.

The violin original Partita is not replaced by this transcription or by
ones for Anvil and Steam-Whistle either. I'm pretty tolerant of
transcriptions such a Stokowski, Ormandy/Caillet, Wendy Carlos - but
even I draw the line at the Swingle Singers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1PmL5zYRi8

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On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 11:06:41 AM UTC+1, Notsure01 wrote:

But I'm not sure if you are against transcriptions in general - after
all, where would those piano folks be without the Busoni?

er, with Mozart, Beethoven, Schumann, Chopin, Brahms, Prokofiev, I could go on and on?

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Herman wrote:

Of course the Chaconne is part and climax of a five-piece partita, but I guess that would challenge the attention span too much.

Okay but life is short and my capacity to absorb information, let alone somehow comprehend it in some sense, is tiny.

From that perspective, it's a miracle that I like this performance and yes I am proud of that, in the sense of feeling privileged.

A famous art historian (no doubt a great scholar) wrote (I'm paraphrasing): we only have enough time to examine a just few fragments.

Just a few fragments. That's it.

No doubt his number of fragments is much larger than mine, or his fragments are much longer than mine, or both, and no doubt his understanding is much, much, much deeper than mine.

(Absolutely no false modesty on my part, even though on a logarithmic scale, the difference might not seem quite so huge, and after taking logarithms a few more times, we all end up in the same boat, as it were.)

That's my consolation. What is yours?
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam

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Herman wrote:

Of course the Chaconne is part and climax of a five-piece partita, but I guess that would challenge the attention span too much.

Okay but life is short and my capacity to absorb information, let alone somehow comprehend it in some sense, is tiny.

From that perspective, it's a miracle that I like this performance and yes I am proud of that, in the sense of feeling privileged.

A famous art historian (no doubt a great scholar) wrote (I'm paraphrasing): we only have enough time to examine a just few fragments.

Just a few fragments. That's it.

No doubt his number of fragments is much larger than mine, or his fragments are much longer than mine, or both, and no doubt his understanding is much, much, much deeper than mine.

(Absolutely no false modesty on my part, even though on a logarithmic scale, the difference might not seem so quite so huge, and after taking logarithms a few more times, we all end up in the same boat, as it were.)

That's my consolation. What is yours?
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam

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On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 11:31:08 PM UTC, Roland van Gaalen wrote:

Herman wrote:

Of course the Chaconne is part and climax of a five-piece partita, but I guess that would challenge the attention span too much.

Okay but life is short and my capacity to absorb information, let alone somehow comprehend it in some sense, is tiny.

From that perspective, it's a miracle that I like this performance and yes I am proud of that, in the sense of feeling privileged.

A famous art historian (no doubt a great scholar) wrote (I'm paraphrasing): we only have enough time to examine a just few fragments.

Just a few fragments. That's it.

No doubt his number of fragments is much larger than mine, or his fragments are much longer than mine, or both, and no doubt his understanding is much, much, much deeper than mine.

(Absolutely no false modesty on my part, even though on a logarithmic scale, the difference might not seem quite so huge, and after taking logarithms a few more times, we all end up in the same boat, as it were.)

That's my consolation. What is yours?
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam

Oh for fucks sake, the whole partita lasts about 20 minutes.

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Op zondag 11 december 2022 om 05:36:53 UTC+1 schreef Mandryka:

On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 11:31:08 PM UTC, Roland van Gaalen wrote:

Herman wrote:

Of course the Chaconne is part and climax of a five-piece partita, but I guess that would challenge the attention span too much.

Okay but life is short and my capacity to absorb information, let alone somehow comprehend it in some sense, is tiny.

From that perspective, it's a miracle that I like this performance and yes I am proud of that, in the sense of feeling privileged.

A famous art historian (no doubt a great scholar) wrote (I'm paraphrasing): we only have enough time to examine a just few fragments.

Just a few fragments. That's it.

No doubt his number of fragments is much larger than mine, or his fragments are much longer than mine, or both, and no doubt his understanding is much, much, much deeper than mine.

(Absolutely no false modesty on my part, even though on a logarithmic scale, the difference might not seem quite so huge, and after taking logarithms a few more times, we all end up in the same boat, as it were.)

That's my consolation. What is yours?
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam

Oh for fucks sake, the whole partita lasts about 20 minutes.

I see. There goes my excuse. Not sure if Penin played the whole thing, though. --
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam

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