MY FAVE 20 RECORDS BY A VOCAL GROUP
TODAY........FROM 1950
Here is what I have.-------------
1 ¦ Cool Water ¦ Four Tunes
I love this even more than Roger does.
On 10/28/2024 7:26 PM, Bruce wrote:
Here is what I have.
1 ¦ Cool Water ¦ Four Tunes-------------
I love this even more than Roger does.
And I detest it. I detest that song by *everyone*.
(I drink a lot of water, so it's not that.)
Here is what I have.
1 ¦ Cool Water ¦ Four Tunes
I love this even more than Roger does.
2 ¦ Rock Mr. Blues ¦ Wynonie Harris
Some say the Dominoes are the group on this, but I don't think so. It
seems to have been recorded a little before Billy Ward formed the
group and started to rehearse them.
4 ¦ Chicken Blues ¦ Dominoes#20 -9
5 ¦ Do Something For Me ¦ Dominoes#8 - 10
6 ¦ I'm Through ¦ Robins#60 - 8
7 ¦ Turkey Hop ¦ Robins#65 - 8
8 ¦ There's No Use Begging ¦ Robins#198 - 7
9 ¦ Mr. Blues ¦ Masterkeys#171 - 7
10 ¦ Count Every Star ¦ Ravens#59 - 8
12 ¦ Is My Heart Wasting Time ¦ Orioles#133 - 7
13 ¦ My Baby's Gone ¦ Ravens#195 - 7
14 ¦ Brown Boy ¦ Big Al Sears (Sparrows)#99 - 8
15 ¦ Lemon Squeezer ¦ Four Barons#30 - 9
16 ¦ Oh Holy Night ¦ Orioles#165 - 7
17 ¦ Got To Go Back Again ¦ Four Barons#64 - 8
18 ¦ You're Fine But Not My Kind ¦ Robins#53 - 8
19 ¦ Every Dog Gone Time ¦ Orioles#180 - 7
20 ¦ Private Property Blues ¦ Don Q & His Q Tones#284 - 7
21 ¦ Our Romance is Gone ¦ Robins#271 - 7
22 ¦ At Night ¦ Orioles#180 - 7
23 ¦ When You Come Back To Me ¦ Clovers#176 - 7
24 ¦ Gonna Have A Merry X-Mas ¦ Nic Nacs#252 - 7
25 ¦ I'm Living O.K. ¦ Robins#240 - 7
26 ¦ Down On My Knees ¦ Swan Silvertones#196 - 7
27 ¦ I'm So Crazy For Love ¦ Cap-Tans#147 - 7
28 ¦ Down Here I've Done My Best (I Want To Go To Heaven And Rest) ¦
Selah Singers
Again it's Wynonie with a group backing him in similar fashion to an
Elvis record with the Jordanaires backing him. I don't consider these
things as bona fide vocal group records per se any more than I'd
consider Perry Como with some group on "Hot Diggity" is a vocal group
record and I'd be surprised if you do.
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 7:07:52 +0000, Roger wrote:
Again it's Wynonie with a group backing him in similar fashion to an
Elvis record with the Jordanaires backing him. I don't consider these
things as bona fide vocal group records per se any more than I'd
consider Perry Como with some group on "Hot Diggity" is a vocal group
record and I'd be surprised if you do.
On "Hot Diggity" it's the Ray Charles Singers and they only sing along
with Perry on the chorus, but yes, it is a vocal group record. Just not
a good one.
On this one below, despite the fact that it's the Dells, who sound
great, they are not on enough of the record for me to classify it as a
vocal group record.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhFX4efZ-7s
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 7:22:19 +0000, Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 7:07:52 +0000, Roger wrote:
Again it's Wynonie with a group backing him in similar fashion to an
Elvis record with the Jordanaires backing him. I don't consider these
things as bona fide vocal group records per se any more than I'd
consider Perry Como with some group on "Hot Diggity" is a vocal group
record and I'd be surprised if you do.
On "Hot Diggity" it's the Ray Charles Singers and they only sing along
with Perry on the chorus, but yes, it is a vocal group record. Just not
a good one.
On this one below, despite the fact that it's the Dells, who sound
great, they are not on enough of the record for me to classify it as a
vocal group record.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhFX4efZ-7s
The Dells are backing Barbara Lewis on her glorious "Hello Stranger" too
nut again its not a vocal group record to me. Do you say it is?
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 15:08:58 +0000, Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 7:39:22 +0000, Roger wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 7:22:19 +0000, Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 7:07:52 +0000, Roger wrote:
Again it's Wynonie with a group backing him in similar fashion to an >>>>> Elvis record with the Jordanaires backing him. I don't consider these >>>>> things as bona fide vocal group records per se any more than I'd
consider Perry Como with some group on "Hot Diggity" is a vocal group >>>>> record and I'd be surprised if you do.
On "Hot Diggity" it's the Ray Charles Singers and they only sing along >>>> with Perry on the chorus, but yes, it is a vocal group record. Just
not a good one.
OK I'm surprised. It's a Perry Como record with (like others) some vocal group backing
On this one below, despite the fact that it's the Dells, who sound
great, they are not on enough of the record for me to classify it as
vocal group record.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhFX4efZ-7s
I wouldn't either but it's like the Como anyway--main artist with a
vocal group backing
The Dells are backing Barbara Lewis on her glorious "Hello Stranger" too >>> but again its not a vocal group record to me. Do you say it is?
Absolutely. I listed it in your 1963 thread.
Same sort of case as the Como.Main artist record just with a group in
the background like countless other records
Do you not consider "The Deacon Moves In" to be a vocal group record?
Yeah it bothers me a little but like the Barbara Lewis the group is not
named or credited. Yet if I had to make a Dominoes discography it should
at least be mentioned (as should the Barbara record in a Dells
discography).
What about when the record is by 2 vocal groups together such as "I'm
Gonna Make You Love Me" by the Supremes and Temptations?
No problem with that and they're equally billed anyway
How about "The Came You" by Dionne Warwick and the Spinners?
I think both get equal billing there as well don't they?
How about "I Know, I Know" by Pookie Hudson and the Imperials?
He wasn't as famous but otherwise same situation as the Como record
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 7:39:22 +0000, Roger wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 7:22:19 +0000, Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 7:07:52 +0000, Roger wrote:
Again it's Wynonie with a group backing him in similar fashion to an
Elvis record with the Jordanaires backing him. I don't consider these
things as bona fide vocal group records per se any more than I'd
consider Perry Como with some group on "Hot Diggity" is a vocal group
record and I'd be surprised if you do.
On "Hot Diggity" it's the Ray Charles Singers and they only sing along
with Perry on the chorus, but yes, it is a vocal group record. Just
not a good one.
On this one below, despite the fact that it's the Dells, who sound
great, they are not on enough of the record for me to classify it as
vocal group record.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhFX4efZ-7s
The Dells are backing Barbara Lewis on her glorious "Hello Stranger" too
but again its not a vocal group record to me. Do you say it is?
Absolutely. I listed it in your 1963 thread.
Do you not consider "The Deacon Moves In" to be a vocal group record?
What about when the record is by 2 vocal groups together such as "I'm
Gonna Make You Love Me" by the Supremes and Temptations?
How about "The Came You" by Dionne Warwick and the Spinners?
How about "I Know, I Know" by Pookie Hudson and the Imperials?
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 20:27:03 +0000, Roger wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 15:08:58 +0000, Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 7:39:22 +0000, Roger wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 7:22:19 +0000, Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 7:07:52 +0000, Roger wrote:
Again it's Wynonie with a group backing him in similar fashion to an >>>>>> Elvis record with the Jordanaires backing him. I don't consider these >>>>>> things as bona fide vocal group records per se any more than I'd
consider Perry Como with some group on "Hot Diggity" is a vocal group >>>>>> record and I'd be surprised if you do.
On "Hot Diggity" it's the Ray Charles Singers and they only sing along >>>>> with Perry on the chorus, but yes, it is a vocal group record. Just
not a good one.
OK I'm surprised. It's a Perry Como record with (like others) some vocal
group backing
On this one below, despite the fact that it's the Dells, who sound
great, they are not on enough of the record for me to classify it as >>>>> vocal group record.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhFX4efZ-7s
I wouldn't either but it's like the Como anyway--main artist with a
vocal group backing
The Dells are backing Barbara Lewis on her glorious "Hello Stranger" too >>>> but again its not a vocal group record to me. Do you say it is?
Absolutely. I listed it in your 1963 thread.
Same sort of case as the Como.Main artist record just with a group in
the background like countless other records
Do you not consider "The Deacon Moves In" to be a vocal group record?
Yeah it bothers me a little but like the Barbara Lewis the group is not
named or credited. Yet if I had to make a Dominoes discography it should
at least be mentioned (as should the Barbara record in a Dells
discography).
What about when the record is by 2 vocal groups together such as "I'm
Gonna Make You Love Me" by the Supremes and Temptations?
No problem with that and they're equally billed anyway
How about "The Came You" by Dionne Warwick and the Spinners?
I think both get equal billing there as well don't they?
How about "I Know, I Know" by Pookie Hudson and the Imperials?
He wasn't as famous but otherwise same situation as the Como record
So what you are saying is that what the recording sounds like has no
bearing on anything. The only thing that seems to matter to you comes
from how business is being done by the record label. However they decide
to list the artist(s) on the label is the sole determining factor in
whether something is a vocal group record or not.
To me there is a difference between a "vocal group record" and a record
that is "by a vocal group."
Anything with a vocal group singing for a major portion of any record
is a vocal group record in my book. Your definition of a "vocal group
record" seems to be the same thing as a record that is "by a vocal
group." I see them as 2 different things that are not mutually
exclusive. Like all dogs are mammals, but not all mammals are dogs.
In this case, all records by a vocal group are also vocal group
records,but to me there are lots of vocal group records that are not
"by" vocal groups.
To me the determining factor is what I hear on the record. To you the determining factor is based instead on business factors.
So if I was to play you a recording you never heard before that featured group harmony you would not be able to classify it as a "vocal group
record" until you knew who was singing and what it says on the record
label. Whereas I would only have to hear the recording to make that determination.
It strikes me as very silly to not base its classification solely on
what the recording sounds like.
It's okay until lack of full info leads to the pronouncing something
like Gene Pitney's "(I'm Gonna) Love My Life Away" as a vocal group
record.
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 21:31:24 +0000, Roger wrote:
It's okay until lack of full info leads to the pronouncing something
like Gene Pitney's "(I'm Gonna) Love My Life Away" as a vocal group
record.
But for you it depends what that full info says. If that record had
been released with the artist being "The Pitneys," you would then say
that it was a vocal group record, right?
I guess you do not consider an act with only 2 people to be a "vocal
group," although some do.
For instance, if you considered the Righteous Brothers to be a vocal
group, would you consider "Unchained Melody" to be a "vocal group
record," even though Medley's voice is not heard on the record at all?
Does what's on the label supersede what you are hearing....to the >point where if the artist is a group name that it would automatically >be a
"vocal group record" even though the only voice heard on the >recording
is Bobby Hatfield?
Is "Wishing Well" by Jerry Dorn (with the Hurricanes) a "vocal Group
record?
And why is "Try Try Baby" a vocal group record when the label just says
that it's by Clyde McPhatter?
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZCe_KxVQNhc/sddefault.jpg
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 23:33:46 +0000, Bruce wrote:
For instance, if you considered the Righteous Brothers to be a vocal
group, would you consider "Unchained Melody" to be a "vocal group
record," even though Medley's voice is not heard on the record at all?
The question is meaningless since they are a duet (at least on their
other records) not a vocal group.
And why is "Try Try Baby" a vocal group record when the label just says
that it's by Clyde McPhatter?
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZCe_KxVQNhc/sddefault.jpg
Because its a proveable 1954 recording as done under contract by The
Drifters vocal group and listed in every decent article written about
their history and certainly included in every discography of the group.
Roger, I assume that this is not a vocal group record?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4qj95CyQo8
Or this one either:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZZKmIZGuEI
Or this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV9XmNQ66VM
On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 6:53:50 +0000, Roger wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 23:33:46 +0000, Bruce wrote:
For instance, if you considered the Righteous Brothers to be a vocal
group, would you consider "Unchained Melody" to be a "vocal group
record," even though Medley's voice is not heard on the record at all?
The question is meaningless since they are a duet (at least on their
other records) not a vocal group.
So is "Unchained Melody" by a duet even though Medley is not singing
at all on the record? Does what it says on the label (Righteous
Brothers) totally override what is heard on the recording?
And why is "Try Try Baby" a vocal group record when the label just s
says that it's by Clyde McPhatter?
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZCe_KxVQNhc/sddefault.jpg
Because its a proveable 1954 recording as done under contract by The
Drifters vocal group and listed in every decent article written about
their history and certainly included in every discography of the group.
So what you are saying is that if the lead singer is also a member of
the backup group, then it's a vocal group record, but if he's not a
member of the group, then it's not a vocal group record.
Bruce wrote:
Anything with a vocal group singing for a major portion of any record
is a vocal group record in my book. Your definition of a "vocal group
record" seems to be the same thing as a record that is "by a vocal
group." I see them as 2 different things that are not mutually
exclusive. Like all dogs are mammals, but not all mammals are dogs.
Another concept that is part of the determination is that of perception. Roger and I perceive many records to not be vocal group records because
they are perceived by the vast majority of listeners to be by solo
artists. Elvis is the perfect example. He has such a huge presence that
his records are perceived as being Elvis records, not vocal group
records.
Any list of vocal group records that includes Elvis records would be
enough for me to just ignore the list, giving it no basis in reality.
Anything with a vocal group singing for a major portion of any record
is a vocal group record in my book. Your definition of a "vocal group
record" seems to be the same thing as a record that is "by a vocal
group." I see them as 2 different things that are not mutually
exclusive. Like all dogs are mammals, but not all mammals are dogs.
On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 7:53:08 +0000, Bruce wrote:
So what you are saying is that if the lead singer is also a member of
the backup group, then it's a vocal group record, but if he's not a
member of the group, then it's not a vocal group record.
What I'm saying is exactly what's quoted above. "Because its a proveable
1954 recording....etc ...etc...etc
On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 10:34:58 +0000, bbug wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Anything with a vocal group singing for a major portion of any record
is a vocal group record in my book. Your definition of a "vocal group
record" seems to be the same thing as a record that is "by a vocal
group." I see them as 2 different things that are not mutually
exclusive. Like all dogs are mammals, but not all mammals are dogs.
Another concept that is part of the determination is that of perception.
Roger and I perceive many records to not be vocal group records because
they are perceived by the vast majority of listeners to be by solo
artists. Elvis is the perfect example. He has such a huge presence that
his records are perceived as being Elvis records, not vocal group
records.
Any list of vocal group records that includes Elvis records would be
enough for me to just ignore the list, giving it no basis in reality.
Well said and I could not agree more with the categorization of Elvis records. As you rightly say the vast majority of people hear those Elvis recordings as very much 'solo artist backed by a vocal group affairs' as
do you and I.
In fact until a day or so ago I don't remember ever encountering anyone
who argued the opposite---that is that they were vocal group records
On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 10:34:58 +0000, bbug wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Anything with a vocal group singing for a major portion of any record
is a vocal group record in my book. Your definition of a "vocal group
record" seems to be the same thing as a record that is "by a vocal
group." I see them as 2 different things that are not mutually
exclusive. Like all dogs are mammals, but not all mammals are dogs.
Another concept that is part of the determination is that of perception.
Roger and I perceive many records to not be vocal group records because
they are perceived by the vast majority of listeners to be by solo
artists. Elvis is the perfect example. He has such a huge presence that
his records are perceived as being Elvis records, not vocal group
records.
Any list of vocal group records that includes Elvis records would be
enough for me to just ignore the list, giving it no basis in reality.
Well said and I could not agree more with the categorization of Elvis records. As you rightly say the vast majority of people hear those Elvis recordings as very much 'solo artist backed by a vocal group affairs' as
do you and I.
On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 8:30:37 +0000, Roger wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 7:53:08 +0000, Bruce wrote:
So what you are saying is that if the lead singer is also a member of
the backup group, then it's a vocal group record, but if he's not a
member of the group, then it's not a vocal group record.
What I'm saying is exactly what's quoted above. "Because its a proveable
1954 recording....etc ...etc...etc
Suppose it was a provable 1954 recording that was released a few years
later as by Clyde McPhatter, but the other singers were the Cues rather
than the Drifters. Then you would say that it's not a vocal group
record, right?
The provable part doesn't mean anything unless the lead singer was a
member of the group, correct?
"Ain't That Loving You Baby" by Elvis was a provable 1956 or 1957
recording that was released in 1964, but because Elvis was not a member
of the Jordanaires, you do not seem it to be a vocal group record,
right?
On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 10:34:58 +0000, bbug wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Anything with a vocal group singing for a major portion of any record
is a vocal group record in my book. Your definition of a "vocal group
record" seems to be the same thing as a record that is "by a vocal
group." I see them as 2 different things that are not mutually
exclusive. Like all dogs are mammals, but not all mammals are dogs.
Another concept that is part of the determination is that of perception.
Roger and I perceive many records to not be vocal group records because
they are perceived by the vast majority of listeners to be by solo
artists. Elvis is the perfect example. He has such a huge presence that
his records are perceived as being Elvis records, not vocal group
records.
Any list of vocal group records that includes Elvis records would be
enough for me to just ignore the list, giving it no basis in reality.
Well said and I could not agree more with the categorization of Elvis records. As you rightly say the vast majority of people hear those Elvis recordings as very much 'solo artist backed by a vocal group affairs' as
do you and I.
In fact until a day or so ago I don't remember ever encountering anyone
who argued the opposite---that is that they were vocal group records
Bruce wrote:
Anything with a vocal group singing for a major portion of any record
is a vocal group record in my book. Your definition of a "vocal group
record" seems to be the same thing as a record that is "by a vocal
group." I see them as 2 different things that are not mutually
exclusive. Like all dogs are mammals, but not all mammals are dogs.
Another concept that is part of the determination is that of perception. >Roger and I perceive many records to not be vocal group records because
they are perceived by the vast majority of listeners to be by solo
artists. Elvis is the perfect example. He has such a huge presence that
his records are perceived as being Elvis records, not vocal group
records.
Any list of vocal group records that includes Elvis records would be
enough for me to just ignore the list, giving it no basis in reality.
Do you really want to make the opinions of the general public part of
this debate?
On Oct 30, 2024 at 11:28:10 AM CDT, "Bruce" <Bruce> wrote:
Do you really want to make the opinions of the general public part of
this debate?
Speaking for the general public, I'd say we think this debate should
stop.
On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 10:34:58 +0000, [email protected] (bbug) wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Anything with a vocal group singing for a major portion of any record
is a vocal group record in my book. Your definition of a "vocal group
record" seems to be the same thing as a record that is "by a vocal
group." I see them as 2 different things that are not mutually
exclusive. Like all dogs are mammals, but not all mammals are dogs.
Another concept that is part of the determination is that of perception. >>Roger and I perceive many records to not be vocal group records because >>they are perceived by the vast majority of listeners to be by solo
artists. Elvis is the perfect example. He has such a huge presence that
his records are perceived as being Elvis records, not vocal group
records.
Any list of vocal group records that includes Elvis records would be
enough for me to just ignore the list, giving it no basis in reality.
(let's give the pot one more stir :-)
Perception is *personal* and can equally serve both sides of the
Roger-Bruce debate on what is a vocal group record.
In this debate, it could be argued that Roger and Bill's perceptions
are closed-minded, particularly regarding Elvis, where they are
influenced by simplistic mob thinking (e.g., "Elvis was never just
part of a vocal group").
Bruce, on the other hand, represents those who are more open-minded,
whose thinking isn't primarily shaped by the history of record label
credits or contracts. Imagine if no other Elvis records existed and
"Don't Be Cruel" was released and credited to "The Jordanaires,
featuring Elvis Presley (as the group's lead singer)."
Bruce is influenced heavily, if not solely, by the *sound* of a
specific recording, while Roger prioritizes other criteria.
(Geoff believes that for a record to be considered as having a
Vocal Group sound, there must be 3 or more voices. This means that
2-voice Duets can be immediately recognized and categorized as such.)
If you really have any belief at all in all this horseshit why didn't
you or anyone else baulk at the complete lack of any Elvis records for instance in both of the old Vocal Groups Battles?. You were posting on
here back then. Why no comments at the time?
If you really have any belief at all in all this horseshit why didn't
you or anyone else baulk at the complete lack of any Elvis records for >instance in both of the old Vocal Groups Battles?. You were posting on
here back then. Why no comments at the time?
On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 06:50:49 +0000, [email protected] (Roger)
wrote:
If you really have any belief at all in all this horseshit why didn't
you or anyone else baulk at the complete lack of any Elvis records for >>instance in both of the old Vocal Groups Battles?. You were posting on
here back then. Why no comments at the time?
Roger, ironically *you* are clutching at straws, with *your* misleading horseshit - shame on you!
Unlike in this current thread, the old Vocal Group Battles did *not
bring
to mind* the thought of questioning the definition of a Vocal Group
record - *realistically* we all just went along, innocent and
unquestioning, for a ride on the great Battle wave.
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