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  • 'Childish' music

    From Dan S. MacAbre@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 13 20:04:27 2016
    When I listen to Faure's 'Berceuse', or Jobim's 'Childrens' Games', they
    seem to invoke a feeling of childhood memories. Can music theory
    explain this?

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  • From J.B. Wood@21:1/5 to Dan S. MacAbre on Fri Oct 14 06:48:11 2016
    On 10/13/2016 03:04 PM, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
    When I listen to Faure's 'Berceuse', or Jobim's 'Childrens' Games', they
    seem to invoke a feeling of childhood memories. Can music theory
    explain this?

    Hello, and just when I thought this ng was on life support. I think
    before an answer to this question could be formulated you'd have to get
    the images conjured up in the minds of many people who would listen to
    the works you mentioned or other pieces that may provoke a "childish" impression to you. I wouldn't reveal the titles of the works to the
    subjects (who may well have heard them before). Put the subjects in a
    room with minimal visual cues. Now tabulate all their impressions and
    see of there's a thread of commonality. Then perhaps one can look for
    musical structures common to these works.

    Composers writing motion picture scores strive to enhance what is acted
    out on screen and the best always pull this off. For example, when I
    hear John Williams's "Hymn to the Fallen" I can't help but thinking of
    Allied troops assaulting and falling on the beaches of Normandy. In
    this case the movie and score are an integrated, inseparable package.
    But that Williams's tune always seems to evoke both sorrow and reverence
    even when I'm not thinking about anything visual from "Saving Private
    Ryan". But I can't tell you what the music theory basis might be.
    After all, this is art. Sincerely,



    --
    J. B. Wood e-mail: [email protected]

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  • From Dan S. MacAbre@21:1/5 to J.B. Wood on Fri Oct 14 12:22:20 2016
    J.B. Wood wrote:
    On 10/13/2016 03:04 PM, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
    When I listen to Faure's 'Berceuse', or Jobim's 'Childrens' Games', they
    seem to invoke a feeling of childhood memories. Can music theory
    explain this?

    Hello, and just when I thought this ng was on life support. I think

    ISTM that usenet in general is having a pretty hard time. Not easily 'monetised', I guess.

    before an answer to this question could be formulated you'd have to get
    the images conjured up in the minds of many people who would listen to
    the works you mentioned or other pieces that may provoke a "childish" impression to you. I wouldn't reveal the titles of the works to the
    subjects (who may well have heard them before). Put the subjects in a
    room with minimal visual cues. Now tabulate all their impressions and
    see of there's a thread of commonality. Then perhaps one can look for musical structures common to these works.

    I've a feeling that what I'm decribing is not going to affect everyone.
    As a boy, I used to 'plonk' away on my grandmother's piano,
    occasionally finding a pattern that I liked, and would repeat. The
    music I'm describing seems able to recreate that, and the sensation
    'takes me right back', as it were. It generally sounds simple, and
    repetitive, and it seems like there are quick, repeated minor/major
    changes, which are almost overwhelming. It's a clever trick :-)
    Grieg's 'Wedding Day at Troldhaugen' (which, coincidentally, I visited a
    few weeks ago) almost has the same effect for me.

    Composers writing motion picture scores strive to enhance what is acted
    out on screen and the best always pull this off. For example, when I
    hear John Williams's "Hymn to the Fallen" I can't help but thinking of
    Allied troops assaulting and falling on the beaches of Normandy. In
    this case the movie and score are an integrated, inseparable package.
    But that Williams's tune always seems to evoke both sorrow and reverence
    even when I'm not thinking about anything visual from "Saving Private
    Ryan". But I can't tell you what the music theory basis might be. After
    all, this is art. Sincerely,


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  • From J.B. Wood@21:1/5 to Dan S. MacAbre on Fri Oct 14 08:01:25 2016
    On 10/14/2016 07:22 AM, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

    I've a feeling that what I'm decribing is not going to affect everyone.
    As a boy, I used to 'plonk' away on my grandmother's piano,
    occasionally finding a pattern that I liked, and would repeat. The
    music I'm describing seems able to recreate that, and the sensation
    'takes me right back', as it were. It generally sounds simple, and repetitive, and it seems like there are quick, repeated minor/major
    changes, which are almost overwhelming. It's a clever trick :-) Grieg's 'Wedding Day at Troldhaugen' (which, coincidentally, I visited a few
    weeks ago) almost has the same effect for me.


    A place to start might be why a lot of folks experience sadness when
    works are written in a minor key with lots of minor chords vice feelings
    of joy when a major key is used. Do you find the sound of a classic
    (minor third) church bell sad? For me the one piece in classical
    repertoire that evokes overwhelming sadness and extreme mourning at the
    loss of a loved one is Ravel's "Pavane For A Dead Princess". I'm a
    grown man in his 60's and although I've heard that work many times I
    never have a dry eye at its conclusion, be it solo piano or orchestral. Sincerely,


    --
    J. B. Wood e-mail: [email protected]

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  • From e7m@21:1/5 to Dan S. MacAbre on Sat Oct 15 05:54:21 2016
    On Thursday, October 13, 2016 at 2:04:29 PM UTC-5, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
    When I listen to Faure's 'Berceuse', or Jobim's 'Childrens' Games', they
    seem to invoke a feeling of childhood memories. Can music theory
    explain this?

    I would suggest that you look at the melodic patterns and see if you find extensive use of the Pentatonic scale for the melodies. Especially the melodic tone set of Mi Sol and La.

    I have not listened to these pieces for a VERY long time but children songs throughout the works are extremelly heavy on simple melodies with simple rhythmic patterns and especially use of these three notes in various patterns.

    The commonality of the sounds that children sing all over the world is astounding and it seems to be a result of the natural most resonant tones that fit the physical structure of the lungs and vocal chords and general shape of the resonant cavity.

    think of the children's songs that you remember and listen for these patterns and either by ear or score, check out these pieces and let me know what you find.

    For guaranteed response (this group has been a bit inactive in recent times) go to <element7music.com> and send me an email through the contact box on the home page.

    LJSe7m

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