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  • Copyright question

    From Joe Kesselman@21:1/5 to Arthur T. on Thu Apr 1 22:23:53 2021
    On 2/4/2020 7:30 PM, Arthur T. wrote:
    I'm considering registering copyright on some of my lyrics. But the
    first question, which affects which form to fill out, is, "Are lyrics
    music, or are they poems?"

    Does anyone know for (reasonably) sure whether lyrics without the accompanying music are considered songs?


    Caveat: I Am Not A Lawyer. Nor do I play one on TV.


    Note that per current US law, copyright exists from the moment of
    creation. As I understand it, "registering" merely starts an official
    paper trail, making the rights easier to defend (and making the
    expiration date clear). So one solution is to dodge the whole issue and
    not bother taking that step.

    Also note that if your work strongly references another work (including to-the-tune-of), it may have to be considered a Derivative Work.

    That doesn't make the answer to your actual question much more obvious,
    alas.


    FWIW, last I checked the old dodge of binding lots of stuff together
    into a single collection and registering copyright on the whole thing
    under an omnibus title ("Opus 1") to avoid filling out separate
    paperwork for each of them still worked. So if you're going to make the
    effort, you might want to take that approach. Note that this would
    probably also dodge the need to make a distinction, since I believe that
    "book" could include a mixture of forms yet still be covered by a single copyright.

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  • From Arthur T.@21:1/5 to Joe Kesselman on Fri Apr 2 01:45:08 2021
    In Message-ID:<s45v7r$k2q$[email protected]>,
    Joe Kesselman <[email protected]> wrote:

    Note that per current US law, copyright exists from the moment of
    creation. As I understand it, "registering" merely starts an official
    paper trail, making the rights easier to defend (and making the
    expiration date clear). So one solution is to dodge the whole issue and
    not bother taking that step.

    As I understand it, registering copyright also changes how much you
    can sue for. Unregistered, you can sue for, at most, actual damages. Registered, you can sue for statutory damages.

    It's a very low likelihood I'd want to sue, but there is one in
    particular (still unpublished) that I might want that protection for.

    Also note that if your work strongly references another work (including >to-the-tune-of), it may have to be considered a Derivative Work.

    If it too closely resembles the original, you're correct. If it
    merely uses the original's tune, the Mad decision might protect me: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Berlin_et_al._v._E.C._Publications,_Inc.>

    FWIW, last I checked the old dodge of binding lots of stuff together
    into a single collection and registering copyright on the whole thing
    under an omnibus title ("Opus 1") to avoid filling out separate
    paperwork for each of them still worked. So if you're going to make the >effort, you might want to take that approach. Note that this would
    probably also dodge the need to make a distinction, since I believe that >"book" could include a mixture of forms yet still be covered by a single >copyright.

    Yes, I would gather all of my time-eligible filks into a collection,
    since, why not? I hadn't thought that the collection might not have
    to have the same classification as the individual pieces in it. That
    *is* worth thinking about.

    Thanks for your reply.

    --
    Arthur T. - ar23hur "at" pobox "dot" com

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  • From John Davis@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 2 06:00:30 2021
    Step one is to put a copy in an envelope. Sign the seal and send it to yourself registered.
    That way you have proof that 'on this day the document existed by my hand". Beyond that I am not a lawyer or an expert. so I leave it to those who are..

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  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to Rafe Culpin on Fri Apr 2 10:07:17 2021
    On 4/2/21 9:27 AM, Rafe Culpin wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (John Davis) wrote:

    Step one is to put a copy in an envelope. Sign the seal and send it
    to yourself registered. That way you have proof that 'on this day the
    document existed by my hand".

    I have seen this suggested many times. I have never seen an explanation of how you
    would prove that you didn't post the envelope first and seal the documents in it
    much later.

    The US Copyright Office debunks this ridiculous piece of misinformation:

    https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html

    I’ve heard about a “poor man’s copyright.” What is it?

    The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself
    is sometimes called a “poor man’s copyright.” There is no
    provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of
    protection, and it is not a substitute for registration.


    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

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  • From Rafe Culpin@21:1/5 to John Davis on Fri Apr 2 14:28:00 2021
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (John Davis) wrote:

    Step one is to put a copy in an envelope. Sign the seal and send it
    to yourself registered. That way you have proof that 'on this day the document existed by my hand".

    I have seen this suggested many times. I have never seen an explanation of how you
    would prove that you didn't post the envelope first and seal the documents in it
    much later.


    --
    To reply email rafe, at the address filk co uk
    Information on filk in the UK: http://filk.co.uk/

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  • From Steve Coltrin@21:1/5 to Rafe Culpin on Fri Apr 2 09:39:29 2021
    begin fnord
    [email protected] (Rafe Culpin) writes:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (John Davis) wrote:

    Step one is to put a copy in an envelope. Sign the seal and send it
    to yourself registered. That way you have proof that 'on this day the
    document existed by my hand".

    I have seen this suggested many times. I have never seen an
    explanation of how you
    would prove that you didn't post the envelope first and seal the documents in it
    much later.

    Google on "poor man's copyright" to see why that stunt is absolutely
    meritless.

    --
    Steve Coltrin [email protected] Google Groups killfiled here
    "A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
    to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
    - Associated Press

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  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Apr 2 19:05:49 2021
    John Davis <[email protected]> wrote:
    Step one is to put a copy in an envelope. Sign the seal and send it to yourself registered.
    That way you have proof that 'on this day the document existed by my hand". >Beyond that I am not a lawyer or an expert. so I leave it to those who are..

    Unfortunately the "poor man's copyright" described here does not actually
    hold up in court. There was a day in which it did, but no longer.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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  • From John Davis@21:1/5 to Rafe Culpin on Sun Apr 4 04:50:27 2021
    On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 9:28:07 AM UTC-4, Rafe Culpin wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (John Davis) wrote:

    Step one is to put a copy in an envelope. Sign the seal and send it
    to yourself registered. That way you have proof that 'on this day the document existed by my hand".
    I have seen this suggested many times. I have never seen an explanation of how you
    would prove that you didn't post the envelope first and seal the documents in it
    much later.


    --
    To reply email rafe, at the address filk co uk
    Information on filk in the UK: http://filk.co.uk/
    And I have seen a story where that was part of the plot.

    I also have a suggestion. Write or type the address on the flap side. put the stamp on the dsame side. that way if the envelope was unsealed and re-sealed it would be clear.

    But as i said "STEP 1" now step 2... That one I can not answer (Actually add one to all numbers as mailing yourself a copy is step to
    What's step one? The C inside the Circle © (this post is not copyrighted)

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  • From Joe Kesselman@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 7 22:41:25 2021
    What I've heard from lawyers is that while the "get the post office to timestamp it for you" is a nice idea, its value as evidence does indeed
    depend on how much people believe the envelope has not been tampered
    with since then... in other words, usually not much, these days.

    Maybe if you letterlocked it...? (I just discovered that craft, and I'm fascinated. Security by obscurity, but _pretty_.)

    Reminder: IANAL.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Joe Kesselman@21:1/5 to John Davis on Wed Apr 7 22:36:07 2021
    On 4/4/2021 7:50 AM, John Davis wrote:
    What's step one? The C inside the Circle © (this post is not copyrighted)

    We really should get one of the filking lawyers to weigh in on this and
    give us some official guidance. Amateur legal advice on the net, mine explicitly included, is probably worth what you paid for it. (I wouldn't
    ask a lawyer for programming advice, I probably shouldn't be giving
    legal advice.)

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