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  • Brahms and God: The trouble with Arthur Abell

    From David Eaton@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Feb 4 04:58:34 2021
    On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 9:13:53 PM UTC+9, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 20, 1996 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, Parsifal77 wrote:
    A few months ago, I happily plunged into Arthur Abell's "Talks With
    the Great Composer's." Initially, the book seemed like a gold mine of fascinating information about such composers as Brahms and Richard Strauss. Abell claims to have recorded-- verbatim-- all these composers had to say about their spiritual lives (a topic which Brahms rarely discussed), the creative process, etc. In it an an account of a conversation between Joseph Joachim and Darwin! Even Joachim and
    Tennyson!

    Swafford doesn't mention the conversations with Abell, however Daniel Beller-McKenna does in his book,
    "Brahms and the German Spirit." According to Beller-McKenna Brahms was quite well versed in Biblical
    scripture and his account seems to support Abell's reportage regarding Brahms' faith convictions.
    As Beller-McKenna tells it, At the time of Robert Schumann’s death, Brahms recalled how Schumann
    requested the Bible. “People just don’t understand,” Brahms would say, “that we North Germans crave
    the Bible and do not go a day without it.” He would say that even in the dark of night in his study he knew
    where his Bible lay.

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  • From Becky Lehmann@21:1/5 to Jan Swafford on Fri May 19 08:33:03 2023
    On Wednesday, August 21, 1996 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Jan Swafford wrote:
    : A few months ago, I happily plunged into Arthur Abell's "Talks With
    : the Great Composer's." Initially, the book seemed like a gold mine of
    : fascinating information about such composers as Brahms and Richard
    : Strauss. Abell claims to have recorded-- verbatim-- all these composers
    : had to say about their spiritual lives (a topic which Brahms rarely
    : discussed), the creative process, etc. In it an an account of a
    : conversation between Joseph Joachim and Darwin! Even Joachim and
    : Tennyson!
    : Later on, though, I stumbled upon a Brahms biography which mentioned the
    : book in a brief footnote. The author doubts the veracity of Abell's
    : conversations-- especially since the composers' spiritual beliefs jive so
    : much with his own.
    I'm writing a book on Brahms so was also duly excited a few years ago
    when I first ran across the Abell. But one quickly gets suspicious, for
    all kinds of reasons. The common wisdom is that it's a fraud.
    Still, somebody ought to do some sleuthing about the whole thing. Abell
    did know Brahms and Joachim and the other composers apparently, and did write a shorter, vaguer account of a Brahms interview back in the 30s--without the spiritualistic stuff. The best guess is that he cooked
    up his later "interview" from a few things Brahms told him, more things Joachim told him, and added some plugs for his own beliefs.
    Anybody out there have some solid info?
    Jan Swafford
    There's clearly something wrong with Abell's 'recollection' of conversing with Brahms "a year before Brahms died" about the composer's alleged encounter with ragtime, reprinted in Schauffler's The Unknown Brahms, pp.176-77. Brahms died in 1897. The "
    well known tune which goes to the words: If you refuse me/Honey, you lose me" is from "Hello, Ma Baby" by Joseph E. Howard and Ida Emerson, 1899. (The actual lyrics are "Honey, you'll lose me".) Incidentally, your biography of Brahms is great!

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