On Friday, September 13, 2002 at 6:49:22 PM UTC-7, Sunnyfield wrote:

For what it's worth... You are perfectly correct in stating that it would be called the "Double EE". There is also an "RR" line and that too is called the "double R".
I have been travelling NYC Subways for over 50 years and have seen and heard it
all (that is until next week when I'll see/hear something that will blow me away once again!
I once wrote a humerous essay that spoke of a newtype ride that would be guaranteed to alarm you, shake you, blow cold/hot air on you, threaten you, etc., etc. and when the reader got to the end, only THEN did I mention that I was writing about a ride on the NYC Subway system.
Dave

Just guessing, but a long time ago I worked for the Santa Fe Railroad, and they had a train called the "Extra East".. .I think it was trans-continental and ran once each day. Could that be it?

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I do think it's the "extra east" but that it wasn't a transcontinental train. I found the following in a 1914 B.&O. publication. There's a section acknowledging employees' (and sometimes ordinary citizens') worthy actions when they noticed things wrong
with trains.
"On October 17, C.W. Crounty, yard brakeman, observed defect in car in train of extra east No. 6008 at Piedmont as it was passing. He notified crew, who stopped train and had car repaired."
Not that the song is talking about this exact incident, but similar events occurred frequently, and I'll bet you a dime to a doughnut that those "extra east" trains were called "double e's" all the time.

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And from other clues in the publication, I would think that's the "Piedmont" in West Virginia.

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On Wednesday, August 28, 2002 at 6:59:41 PM UTC-6, bardo wrote:

Zevon lyric (full lyrics at
http://www.lyrics.jp/lyrics/W000600010011.asp):

"Laid my head on the railroad track, waitin' for the Double E.
But the railroad don't run no more. Poor, poor pitiful me."

Since Zevon was based in _Chicago_, I would think that the EE train in New York isn't likely. Plus, of course, the New York Subway hasn't ceased operations.

And the term meaning a train pulled by two E-units; no way. Doesn't fit the context.

But what does fit perfectly is if it's a reference to the Lake Erie & Eastern railroad.

With the other songs, it isn't quite as clear or unambiguous, but this one, I think, only leaves that as a possibility.

John Savard

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On Wednesday, December 25, 2019 at 9:49:00 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:

On Wednesday, August 28, 2002 at 6:59:41 PM UTC-6, bardo wrote:

Zevon lyric (full lyrics at
http://www.lyrics.jp/lyrics/W000600010011.asp):

"Laid my head on the railroad track, waitin' for the Double E.
But the railroad don't run no more. Poor, poor pitiful me."

Since Zevon was based in _Chicago_, I would think that the EE train in New York
isn't likely. Plus, of course, the New York Subway hasn't ceased operations.

And the term meaning a train pulled by two E-units; no way. Doesn't fit the context.

But what does fit perfectly is if it's a reference to the Lake Erie & Eastern railroad.

With the other songs, it isn't quite as clear or unambiguous, but this one, I think, only leaves that as a possibility.

In the case of the Bob Dylan lyric, since brakemen flag down real trains much more often than subway trains, I think that the Lake Erie & Eastern is also the more likely explanation.

In the case of the Grateful Dead lyric, on the other hand, I think it's fairly obviously the musical note E that is referred to... _if_ it had anything to do with trains, the "double-E gauge theory" would be the only possibility.

John Savard

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On Thursday, December 26, 2019 at 6:09:19 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:

On Wednesday, December 25, 2019 at 9:49:00 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:

On Wednesday, August 28, 2002 at 6:59:41 PM UTC-6, bardo wrote:

Zevon lyric (full lyrics at http://www.lyrics.jp/lyrics/W000600010011.asp):

"Laid my head on the railroad track, waitin' for the Double E.
But the railroad don't run no more. Poor, poor pitiful me."

Since Zevon was based in _Chicago_, I would think that the EE train in New York
isn't likely. Plus, of course, the New York Subway hasn't ceased operations.

And the term meaning a train pulled by two E-units; no way. Doesn't fit the context.

But what does fit perfectly is if it's a reference to the Lake Erie & Eastern
railroad.

With the other songs, it isn't quite as clear or unambiguous, but this one, I
think, only leaves that as a possibility.

In the case of the Bob Dylan lyric, since brakemen flag down real trains much more often than subway trains, I think that the Lake Erie & Eastern is also the
more likely explanation.

In the case of the Grateful Dead lyric, on the other hand, I think it's fairly
obviously the musical note E that is referred to... _if_ it had anything to do
with trains, the "double-E gauge theory" would be the only possibility.

John Savard

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On Thursday, December 26, 2019 at 3:09:19 AM UTC-8, wrote:

On Wednesday, December 25, 2019 at 9:49:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:

On Wednesday, August 28, 2002 at 6:59:41 PM UTC-6, bardo wrote:

Zevon lyric (full lyrics at http://www.lyrics.jp/lyrics/W000600010011.asp):

"Laid my head on the railroad track, waitin' for the Double E.
But the railroad don't run no more. Poor, poor pitiful me."

Since Zevon was based in _Chicago_, I would think that the EE train in New York
isn't likely. Plus, of course, the New York Subway hasn't ceased operations.

And the term meaning a train pulled by two E-units; no way. Doesn't fit the
context.

But what does fit perfectly is if it's a reference to the Lake Erie & Eastern
railroad.

With the other songs, it isn't quite as clear or unambiguous, but this one, I
think, only leaves that as a possibility.

In the case of the Bob Dylan lyric, since brakemen flag down real trains much
more often than subway trains, I think that the Lake Erie & Eastern is also the
more likely explanation.

In the case of the Grateful Dead lyric, on the other hand, I think it's fairly
obviously the musical note E that is referred to... _if_ it had anything to do
with trains, the "double-E gauge theory" would be the only possibility.

John Savard

These explanations seem like the most appropriate for those songs. Dylan was mostly based in New York at the time of that song, and he's talking about the brakeman flagging down a train.

The Zevon song, though? (Poor, Poor, Pitiful Me) He was from Chicago and based in Los Angeles. I wonder if one of the Pacific Railroad Street Cars from Los Angeles was called the 'EE' line. I did a quick google search this morning and I couldn't find
anything specific about those street car lines and their designations. To an Angeleno in the 70s, there were a lot of railroad tracks around the city with no trains/street cars running on them anymore. The other option is Chicago's trains and elevated
trains changing in the 70s as well. The 'Double E' could easily be 'the Evening Express', which could be the name of a night route for a street car. It might only stop if you flagged it down, so you pass out with your head on the tracks so the rumbling
of the train and its braking and whistle would wake you up. At least, that 'makes sense' when I think like an exhausted alcoholic.

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