• YAAP Marion-Arc-Dwa-Fem-Law (1/2)

    From Dave@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 27 12:17:36 2024
    This will be the last ascension I post to rec.games.roguelike.nethack,
    assuming that by the time I am ready to publish, it is still possible to
    do so. In 1997 I began a project to ascend one character of each role
    and post the ascensions on r.g.r.n. In recent years the newsgroup has
    been largely abandoned. USENET thrived for a time under the umbrella of
    Google Groups, but Google has pulled the plug on displaying newsgroup
    updates, so many of the r.g.r.n. folks have migrated to the r/nethack/ subreddit. I created a Reddit account to post my previous ascension but between attempting to post too soon after creating my account and
    exceeding the character limit, I gave up and posted it to my own server.
    This document will live at http://www.vortex4.net/~friend/nethack/marion.html. All thirteen of
    these ascensions are indexed at https://www.vortex4.net/~friend/nethack.

    In 1982 a friend of mine showed me hack on his dad’s computer. After a
    few games I mused that I’d like to win the game with every role. He
    told me it was impossible. I was an impressionable youth and took him
    at his word. The only hack I had access to at the time was at his
    house, so I didn’t have many opportunities to play. I finally got my
    own copy of hack for my Amiga 500 in 1989, finding it on a disc from the
    Fred Fish collection of freely distributable software. The A500 only
    had 512k of memory out of the box, so I couldn’t run the cooler nethack
    2.3 until I got my 1MB upgrade, or the even cooler nethack 3.0 until I
    got my 2MB upgrade.

    In 1991 my friend’s dad got me an internship at the Department of Energy
    lab where he worked. A typo trying to rm a file launched rn, and in no
    time I had discovered r.g.r.n. When I wasn’t learning sed, awk, grep,
    and nroff, I was reading ascension posts. I showed nethack to another
    friend of mine who latched onto it and cultivated his own habit. He is
    much smarter and more patient than I am and he was able to ascended
    within months.

    By nethack 3.3 I had discovered the spoilers lists and my games were
    getting better, but I still played much too quickly and carelessly to
    ascend. General consensus was that a Valkyrie was the easiest class, so
    I started there. I typically played under my own username, but one day
    in 1997 I read an r.g.r.n post by a player whose Valkyrie was named
    after Taarna from the film “Heavy Metal”. It fired my imagination. I
    knew immediately who my Valkyrie would be, and suddenly the old idea of ascending every role came back in force. Should I ever ascend paquita,
    I wondered, who would the other roles be named for?

    I worked at a Video Store in 1995, and had by the end of my time there
    absorbed a decent chunk of its catalog. Some roles would be easy,
    overlapping with characters from films with which I had the greatest
    personal connection. Selecting characters for the other roles took
    place over time. With the help of the 3.3 spoilers, I had constructed a
    rough order of roles from easiest to hardest, and I switched genders
    every time I switched roles. The film or show I chose had to be
    formative. I couldn’t select a just any character from any film or
    show; it had to have a significant impact on my life. It also had to
    stand up to the annual ritual of a Halloween watch party before
    beginning the /dev/null (and later, Hardfought) November Nethack Tournament.

    It was difficult to find an Archeologist who fit the bill. Since it was
    the last of the thirteen roles, and because I had started with Valkyrie,
    I would need a female character. This presented a number of problems.
    Who qualifies as an archeologist? To what degree are female
    archeologists represented in television and film? Which were formative
    for me, and which would stand up to an annual viewing?

    An archeologist is an anthropologist, but the reverse is not necessarily
    true. This would seem to rule out Temperance Brennan of “Bones” fame. Evelyn O’Connell from the 1990s “Mummy” series was a librarian rather than an archaeologist. Did any treasure hunter/grave robber count?
    Vash from “Star Trek, The Next Generation” was clearly appropriate, but
    I had already done “Star Trek” with my Healer ascension and STTNG wasn’t really as formative for me as the original series. ‘Dolly’ Parton from “Bonekickers” and Sydney Fox from “Relic Hunters” would technically work, but neither show really grabbed me (I only got through the pilot
    of the former and the latter was…not good). I even dug into “Kung Fu Vampire Killers”, but though I have a soft spot in my heart for grad students, neither Lucy nor Mina really counted as archeologists. There
    is an argument to be made in favor of Ray from the third “Star Wars” trilogy as a treasure hunter, but the original trilogy was much more
    formative for me. The best choice probably would have been River Song
    of “Dr Who” fame, who is the most compelling female archeologist I came across in this research. That said, despite my longstanding science
    fiction fandom, I disapprove of time travel, so I was never able to
    really get into “Dr Who”.

    I started to notice recurrent themes in my survey of screen
    archeologists. First was the “adventurer archeologist” trope, which was really a much better fit for this exploration than a more academic archeologist. Second was a pattern emerging in these films, whether it
    be “King Solomon’s Mines”, “Raiders of the Lost Ark”, or even “Heavy
    Metal”, where our hero has some relationship with the daughter of
    an(other) archeologist. This “archeologist’s daughter” trope was pretty contrived from a storytelling angle, but showed up in so many places
    that I felt like it deserved some consideration. “Tomb Raider” fuses
    these tropes together, as Lara Croft is both the archaeologist and the archeologist’s daughter. I had never seen the films, and gave the
    original 2001 Angelina Jolie film and the 2018 Alicia Vikander film a
    watch. I preferred the 2018 version, but neither movie made me excited
    to watch a second time.

    Remembering that I had enjoyed the 1985 version of “King Solomon’s
    Mines” as a child, I reviewed both the 1950 and 1985 versions. Beware
    of this rabbit hole. The 1950 version is 100% an elephant snuff film,
    and there is a scene where the filmmakers appear to have intentionally
    started a wildfire on the savannah to create and film a wildlife
    stampede. I am wondering if Stewart Granger’s line about a “waste of
    time, supplies and lives” was scripted or commentary. The 1985 version indeed has much to appeal to a ten year old boy, but I have no desire
    watch either film again.

    Heavy Metal got consideration mainly for its formative influence,
    particularly on my early musical taste. I first saw it when I was
    seven, and was scared of green glowy things for years afterward. But
    though the girl in the Harry Canyon story exemplifies the archeologist’s daughter trope, the character not only has no depth but is also
    literally credited as “Girl”, so this was really a non-starter.

    Which left “Raiders of The Lost Ark”, and Marion Ravenwood. She is certainly an archeologist’s daughter. Does she count as an adventurer archeologist? Minutes after she is introduced she asserts that she is
    Jones’ partner in the quest for the Ark. Though her treatment by 80’s Hollywood does her no favors, at least the character in the original has
    more nuance than in “Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal
    Skull”, which I would rather not have subjected myself to. I will
    grant, however, despite her heavy handed obsession with Jones in that
    film, that her adventurer archeologist credentials in the action scenes
    were impeccable. Was “Raiders of the Lost Ark” formative? Oh my, yes.
    I saw that film when I was seven too, and like everyone in my
    generation, the climactic scene where the Nazi Toht’s face is melted off
    by the Ark will be burned into my brain for as long as I live.
    Ultimately, it was the only piece of media in my research which I would
    eagerly watch on Halloween no matter how many November tournaments it
    took to ascend.

    So marion it was. She would be a dwarf, as I had only one other dwarf ascension. In general I add a new conduct for each new role, and the
    easiest to add to my stack looked like weaponless. If The November
    Nethack Tournament had been built on 3.7, I would have added pauper, but
    as TNNT was built on 3.6.7, weaponless it would be. I also attempted to achieve “never changed form” this time around. Though I achieved it in earlier ascensions, I hadn’t in the last several, and it would count as
    a conduct stack increase if I failed on weaponless.

    The weaponless archeologist, as one member of my TNNT clan put it,
    “sounds like nethack on hard mode”, and I cannot disagree. As the wiki notes, Monk and Samurai are the best candidates due to their martial
    arts, and Barbarian less so since it can only achieve Master in unarmed
    combat. Everyone else has to resort to thrown weapons, spells, or pets
    to do significant damage. The only missile weapon the archeologist can
    become expert in is boomerang, and they get no multi-shot bonuses. My Junethack weaponless attempt (on 3.7, but before I’d learned about
    pauper) only reached the Quest, where marion (miriam at the time, as I apparently have been mishearing her name for the last 43 years of
    watching this film) was slain by a wand of death wielded by the Minion
    of Huhetotl.

    I enjoyed watching nethackathon this year, so much so that afterward I
    was disappointed when there was rarely live nethack to watch.
    Considering that perhaps other people felt this way, I began streaming
    my games as v4friend on Twitch. It is somewhat fitting that at the end
    of this goal of 13 character-based ascensions, I finally have an actual recording of this one. As my feed is not wildly popular those streams
    have since expired on twitch, so I have created a YouTube channel in
    order to post the videos - https://www.youtube.com/@vortex4friend. The
    quality is not great - in the third I accidentally move the window so
    you can’t see the message line, in one of them I don’t figure out for an hour that I need to turn my guitar down to quiet the feedback, and I
    don’t have a private room in which to stream, so there is frequently background noise. As I’ve never successfully downloaded my ttyrecs,
    this is the only ascension I’ve ever actually recorded.

    Streaming my games had the unexpected side effect of getting me invited
    into a Clan ahead of TNNT, something I’m not sure has ever happened
    before. I did let them know ahead of time that I was only likely to
    try for one ascension this year, but they welcomed me anyway. I am thus
    now a member of Gandalf’s Illegal Fireworks, and have now for the first
    time contributed to the success of a Clan.

    Calling back to “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade”, marion’s pettype was dog and her dogname was Indiana. Her fruittype would be date (“ya
    eat em!”). The names of pets and nurses overlapped somewhat and names
    were heavily reused, as pets were so important to the weaponless attempt
    that marion burned through many of them in order to survive. The only
    named animal characters in “Raiders of the Lost Ark", were the python “Reggie” at the start of the film, and the evil monkey later, whose fan-asserted name is “Capuchin Monkey”. I don’t like that name much, it feels like calling Lassie “Rough Collie”. I called several pets “Nameless Monkey”, which I thought was more appropriate. Other pets
    were named for deceased colleagues of Indiana Jones: Forrestal,
    Michaelson, and Professor Abner Ravenwood. Nurses and/or other pets got
    the names of Jones’ allies in the original film: Marcus Brody, Jock,
    Sallah, Fayah (Sallah’s wife), Your children (a reference to when Marion bestows three kisses on Sallah, one for Fayah, one for “your children”,
    and one for him), and Katanga. I also included Short Round, even though
    Marion wasn’t in “Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom”. That movie is kinda racist, but I always liked Short Round. Any horses were named for vehicles, primarily Bantu Wind, Katanga’s freighter. Occasionally I
    named horses for other vehicles like Plane, Truck, or Submarine. Incubi
    were named after Jones or villians: Indiana/Indiana Jones/Indy and Belloq/Bellosh/Renee, among others.

    The game in which marion ultimately found success started
    inauspiciously. The weaponless conduct I was attempting generally
    required Indiana to do most of the fighting until marion found darts
    and/or daggers to throw. This time around Indiana died before marion
    found the second room, so she resorted to fisticuffs and throwing her
    whip and pick-axe for early survival (throwing the +2 bullwhip turned
    out to be an effective way of taking down many low hp creatures). An
    unlocked chest on the first level facilitated her mines branch stash,
    and contained a cloak of displacement which she wore through the end of
    the game.

    The Gnomish Mines yielded enough daggers and darts to make marion at
    least somewhat dangerous, and the discovery of a black opal on her way
    to Minetown paid for an initial round of Protection; despite having no
    pet, she was able to reach the (co-aligned!) Minetown altar while still
    only level 3. Minetown’s hardware store yielded a magic whistle, and
    its two delis provided enough food to permit a more leisurely
    exploration of the dungeon.

    Between Marcus Brody, a kitten tamed in Minetown, and Nameless Monkey,
    who joined marion in the “find kitten” level of TNNT, the magic whistle
    was critical to surviving Sokoban. Nameless Monkey ate a chameleon
    corpse and transformed into a black unicorn before being slain by a gold
    golem. This mixed blessing furnished marion a unicorn horn without
    having to harvest one herself. Marcus Brody also ate a chameleon corpse
    and became a xan, which turned out to be a potent ally. Another dog,
    Jock, made an appearance before marion had solved the top level of
    Sokoban, though it was lost in the zoo. A cat therein, Sallah, joined
    forces with her, though it was slain by a leocrotta on the way back down
    to the Dungeons of Doom. The Sokoban prize was a bag of holding.

    A recurring theme of marion’s runs would be food scarcity. The
    weaponless addition to veganism made it harder than usual to restrict
    prayer to food-related emergencies. The decision of what to do after
    Sokoban was thus overshadowed by a dwindling supply of rations. Despite
    this limitation, she opted to pursue the luckstone at Mines’ End in
    order to contribute toward a Lesser Archeologist trophy for Gandalf’s
    Illegal Fireworks. This choice would also provide the opportunity to
    invest what proceeds from the Sokoban zoo weren’t eaten by a rock mole
    into a little more protection.

    Not far down marion was separated from her faithful xan; a level
    teleport trap followed by a trap door dropped her directly to Mines’
    End. By this time she had looted a potion of object detection off the
    corpse of a nymph, and was able to determine the location of the
    luckstone. Mines End was rough for a level 8 (whoops, vampire! Level
    7) marion, and she was forced to resort to prayer and a wand of
    lightning in order to survive her initial foray. The level teleporter
    under the luckstone returned her to just one level down from Marcus
    Brody, with whom she was able to quickly reunite thanks to the magic
    whistle. Back at minetown she tamed a large dog named Your children,
    and just in time, as Marcus Brody picked a fight with the Priest of Quetzalcoatl and lost. After taking moment to run up to her stash and
    render some harmful potions inert with her unicorn horn, marion returned
    to Mines’ End fully prepared to make holy water once the luckstone was
    in hand. Soon it was hers, but another level teleport trap sent her
    back up to her stash without Your children. An altar in the Dungeons of
    Doom one level below her stash provided her first batch of holy water.
    She blessed the luckstone and the bag of holding, then headed deeper
    into the dungeons of doom to seek additional food.

    She found a leprechaun hall one level below the sokoban branch. Was it
    worth clearing the hall without a guarantee of food? Perhaps not. The
    gold would still be there once she found sustenance. Fortuitously on
    the very next level after the hall was a 4x5 delicatessen, which was
    just the buffer marion needed to go back and finish the mines. On the
    way there she ran into the first of several unicorns, at which she threw
    her most valuable gems in order to increase her luck. She made it back
    down to Mines’ End before Your children became untamed, and combed the
    level for everything of interest. The TNNT swapchest accepted a ring of protection, and from it she was able to remove an uncursed amulet of
    reflection named kindly donated by xdminsy.

    Now endowed with reflection, marion continued her progress through the
    Dungeons of Doom. She cleared the leprechaun hall and then headed back
    down to the deli to buy additional food. On the next level was yet
    another leprauchaun hall. Soon after she found the quest level, but
    opted not to engage with it due to her lack of poison resistance. The
    same level had an altar and a spiked pit nearby. When the pit trapped a
    black unicorn she slew it and tried to fish it out, but she was attacked
    by a dust vortex which repeatedly captured her and dropped her into the
    pit, costing her the bulk of her hit points and forcing a prayer. Then
    Your children became stuck in the pit, and was killed by a passing owlbear.

    After that madness it no longer seemed like a good idea to proceed
    without as much protection as marion could afford. She stopped at her
    stash for a little alchemy after buying the local bookstore out of
    identify scrolls. This revealed a wand of make invisible, of which she
    took immediate advantage. She returned to Minetown to pick up a couple
    more points of protection, then continued on through the Dungeons of
    Doom. She tamed a horse named Bantu Wind, which was timely, as the next
    hurdle was a throne room. Bantu Wind was quickly overcome, but by now
    marion had identified wands of undead turning, enabling the
    reconstitution of her hapless horse. Bantu Wind was resurrected twice
    more cleaning out a treasure zoo a couple of levels later. On the same
    level she befriended a housecat named Katanga. Unfortunately a level
    teleport trap separated her from her pets, and by the time she returned
    Bantu Wind had been lost. Katanga was destroyed by a soldier with a
    wand of fire on a deeper level which housed a barracks. On the upside, cleaning out the barracks provided a good supply of C and K-rations.
    She tamed a pony named Submarine and a housecat named Short Round, but
    the latter was slain on the way back up to the stash.

    By this point marion was holding too much cash not to finish maximizing protection, so she returned to Minetown, where Submarine was killed by a werewolf. She sought out fountains to increase her supply of holy
    water, then performed some alchemy, blessing her scrolls of remove curse
    and uncursing any useful items. She took this time to bless her tinning
    kit, facilitating the production of blessed tins of acid blob. Then it
    was time to finish mapping the Dungeons of Doom.

    Again her provisions dwindled to only C and K-rations. On the way down
    she completed the TNNT missing code quest and received the Really Cool
    T-Shirt. She tamed a little dog named Reggie and a pony named The Ark
    of the Covenant. Frustrated by their lackluster damage, she polymorphed
    The Ark of the Covenant into an iron golem and Reggie into an owlbear.
    I didn’t notice at the time but there was a weapon on the ground between them. It was at that moment that I lost the “never polymorphed an
    object” conduct for the first time in several ascensions. Sadly, a
    trapper swallowed and destroyed The Ark of the Covenant shortly thereafter.

    Medusa’s foyer was populated by a Titan, though fortunately it was
    peaceful. Without water walking or levitation there was no way to cross
    the moat to Medusa’s island. Now there was no place to go but back up,
    and she was continuing to burn through her meagre supply of C and
    K-rations. She headed back to her stash. If all she could do next was
    kill Medusa and go on to the Castle, she would need to be prepared. She stopped by the bookstore and bought all of the enchant armor, gold
    detection, and unidentified scrolls and spellbooks she could. She took
    a moment to read the cheaper spellbooks, and discovered one of magic
    missile. An acid blob slain during this period provided a ring of
    levitation. She blessed her stack of enchant armor scrolls and brought
    the Really Cool Shirt up to +4. Between that and the extra protection
    she was now at AC -15. Though she was already invisible she had not
    found a blindfold or towel. A mummy wrapping and reflection would have
    to be enough. On the way down she tamed a dog named Capuchin Monkey.
    She also met Forrestal, a chameleon to which she had tossed a tripe
    ration while it briefly took the form of a kitten. Once at Medusa’s
    level, marion opted to dig down and then find the stairs back up. She
    played a bugle to wake Medusa, and the reflection+visibility combo did
    the rest.

    Then marion went on to fully explore the throne room-endowed level
    below. Forrestal was slain by an unknown enemy, possibly a red naga.
    Reggie ate Forrestal’s corpse and was quite unhelpfully transformed into
    a hobbit. After exploring the rest of the level, marion discovered that
    the throne room was extremely large (13x4), and reasoned that it would
    be a poor choice to leave it uncleared before moving on. Unfortunately
    it contained multiple dragons. An elf lord made short work of Reggie
    the hobbit. Reggie was avenged, but a pattern was clearly developing
    whereby marion could only deal with one of these powerful enemies at a
    time with her assorted stacks of low-powered missile weapons. She
    raised Reggie from the dead, then polymorphed it into an ochre jelly and Capuchin Monkey into a white dragon. Certainly marion would now be able
    to face the occupants of the throne room! Unfortunately both of her
    pets were slain by a green dragon’s poisonous gas breath. Stymied,
    marion fled upstairs, just in time to meet four stone golems coming in
    the door to Medusa’s lair. No longer safe there, she ran to the down
    stairs from the throne room level to see if she could make a go of
    things, but ran afoul of a minotaur. Fleeing again, she made her way to
    the castle.

    Then things started to get really bad. A master lich appeared. She
    brought her wand of lightning to bear, but moved off of the stairs, and
    the lich now blocked her escape. A red dragon joined the battle. She
    tried digging down, forgetting that floor was too hard on the castle
    level to make trapdoors. She tried taming the dragon to no avail. In
    short order she was forced to pray. She then resorted to a bugle, which
    scared the dragon off, but readied all of the soldiers in the castle for battle. At this point I was sure the game was lost. Fortunately, the
    lich moved off of the stairs and marion was able to flee back up. She gradually made her way back to Medusa’s level, fended off the stone
    golems, fought her way past the other guardians enough to escape from Medusa’s island, and reached the stairs up. It was clear at this point
    that she could not go on without the ability to do serious damage. She returned to her stash to retool, despite a chronic food shortage
    hamstringing her options. Her C and K-ration supply was now countable
    on one hand.

    Her new strategy was to become a spellcaster. She shed her mithril for
    studded leather and her helm for a leather hat. She trained force bolt
    in order to reach basic proficiency in attack spells so that she might
    leverage magic missile. As a result, marion was now completely out of
    food. The only known source would be at the castle. She headed back
    down to Medusa’s level to clear out the sea life. But when marion
    arrived, she discovered the Titan was now hostile. She fled back
    upstairs again, searching for food, and staving off hunger with prayer.
    She tried once more to take on the Titan, but it summoned monsters
    faster than she could destroy them with her magic missiles, and again
    she fled, resorting to prayer to fill her belly a second time. Halfway
    back to her stash, she heard a sound indicating a vault, searched it
    out, and discovered the portal to Fort Ludios.

    Finally a significant source of food! She had to pray one more time to
    stave off hunger, but after that she began to loot C and K-rations from
    the mounting casualties of the Army of Yendor. On completion of her
    initial assault on Ludios, she was able to bring 46 C-rations and 28
    K-rations back to her stash. She kept about a quarter of this food on
    her, curated her inventory, and discovered enchant weapon. Then she
    went back down to kill Ludios’ dragons, which included a gray kind
    enough to drop scales. In short order she had +5 gray dragon scale
    mail. A yellow dragon dropped the last potion of gain level needed for
    marion to reach 14, so despite her lack of poison resistance, she set
    off with her new -22 AC and headed to the quest. On the fourth quest
    level she found the only incubus she would ever canoodle with, also
    called Indiana (though the other incubi in the game were assigned names,
    she dispatched them all before they could make contact). This level
    also provided the only magic marker she would ever find. Before
    proceeding to the final quest level, she headed back to the stash in
    order to complete her retrofit to optimize for weaponless. She had
    found enough scrolls of enchant weapon to turn her twenty-two daggers
    into a devastating +6 stack.

    It was at this point that I made a fateful mistake, but I wouldn’t
    discover it until I resumed the game the next day. The problem was
    staying up late to process inventory, enchanting the dagger stack, then immediately saving and going to bed. I never switched marion to bare
    hands after that, and didn’t remember to in the morning. She engaged in melee with an easily-dispatched enemy, and then I realized that it was
    too easy; it should have taken more than one hit. She was still
    wielding the daggers. This took the wind out of my sails. I still
    didn’t know about the polypiling fail though, and I wasn’t too concerned about not being able to obtain the weaponless conduct, but it was a heartbreaking way to lose it.

    The way forward, then, was to go find a strong melee weapon. This would necessitate visiting an altar. After marion returned to her stash, she
    grabbed the appropriate monster summoning accoutrements, and began
    sacrificing. During this session a gelatinous cube emerged from her bag
    of tricks, which she ate, acquiring sleep resistance. Quetzalcoatl’s
    first gift was Snickersnee. A number of creatures impeded her return to
    the stairs, so she sacrificed more and obtained Frost Brand. Then it
    was back down to the Quest to deal with the Minion of Huhetotl. Frost
    Brand did the trick, and the Orb of Detection was hers. She tamed
    another kitten named Michaelson. After some inventory curation at the
    stash, marion deployed a blessed figurine of a garter snake called
    Professor Abner Ravenwood. She polymorphed Professor Abner Ravenwood
    into a gnomish wizard and Michaelson into an Uruk-hai.

    It was now time to secure Medusa’s level and begin the process of taking
    the castle. Sadly, neither of these pets were likely to survive the
    Titan’s nasties. It finally summoned a cockatrice, permitting the
    situation to be resolved by rubber chicken diplomacy. Professor Abner Ravenwood survived this imbroglio, but Michaelson had not. Next marion
    began slinging the sharks and eels populating Medusa’s moat. I had
    forgotten the that stones thrown or slung over water skip, but she had
    enough rocks from the shattered statues of nasties to thin out their
    population somewhat before she became impatient and started hitting them
    with Frostbrand. Professor Abner Ravenwood did not survive the Green
    Dragon from the throne room, which marion finally cleared. She
    continued to the castle, obtaining poison resistance from a violet
    fungus corpse on the way.

    At this point marion was starting to forget magic missile, so she took
    one more trip back up to the stash to relearn it and drop off loot. On
    the way she tamed a horse named Truck. Here things went a bit sideways.
    Returning to the stash, she stopped off at an altar where a couple of
    dwarves were milling around. While she sacrificed a tengu, Truck killed
    one of the dwarves, and out of habit, she sacrificed it. But marion was herself a dwarf. This created a same-race sacrifice condition and
    converted the altar to Huhetotl, angering Quetzalcoatl and costing
    marion all of her hard-earned protection.

    Obviously she was spending too much time preparing, so she returned to
    the castle. Figuring AC -13 should be enough to deal with the castle guardians, marion took out the master-lich with her magic missiles,
    trained another horse named Bantu Wind II, and used a combination of
    magic missiles and slinging to take out the xorns and the moat monsters.
    She used a bugle looted from one of the many dead soldiers to learn
    the passtune, and proceeded to use the drawbridge to crush castle
    guardians until one of the soldiers therein destroyed it with a wand of striking. After thinning out the castle defenses and crossing the moat,
    she claimed a silver saber from one of the fallen captains. In short
    order the castle and its wand of wishing were hers. Sadly, it appeared
    that sacking the castle treasuries in the wrong order had permitted a
    rust monster to eat most of the armory, though it had turned up its nose
    at a pair of boots of water walking.

    Realizing that to regain protection she would need to empty Ludios,
    marion and Bantu Wind II returned. The latter was killed by a dwarf
    lord on arrival, raised, then killed again by a swarm of monsters
    summoned by a green-elf. Faced with a multitude of not-so-challenging creatures, marion took the opportunity to train up silver saber and
    two-weapon combat, maxing out her capabilities in each. Once she
    regained Protection marion moved on to the Valley of the Dead. She met
    another horse, which she tamed and called Bantu Wind III. When she got
    to the Valley’s swap chest, she had only a potion of full healing to
    offer. Unfortunately the options from this chest were pretty slim, the
    most useful item being a +3 elven leather helm. After clearing the
    Valley of the Dead marion retuned to her stash for a final round of
    alchemy before heading to Gehennom.

    First she spent some time sacrificing in an attempt to gain either Greyswandir or be crowned, but Quetzalcoatl seemed to still be holding a
    grudge after the dwarf sacrifice. During this process Bantu Wind III
    was killed, and she tamed two more warhorses, Bantu Winds IV and V. One
    of the creatures summoned during the sacrifice fest dropped another wand
    of wishing. In another moment of ecclesiastical confusion, she
    attempted to sacrifice Bantu Wind III’s corpse, irritating Quetzalcoatl
    again and losing all of her protection a second time. Bantu Wind IV was
    slain by summoned creatures. After burning through all of her create
    monster wands, she returned to her stash for a little alchemy, revealing
    a ring of conflict. She enchanted her silver saber and cloak of
    displacement, as well as her water walking boots, then realized all of
    her protection was gone. Fortunately there were two temples below, and
    neither were to Quetzalcoatl, so the money to buy protection back was
    already banked. Alchemy complete, she headed down. She stopped off at

    [continued in next message]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson@21:1/5 to Dave on Sat Dec 28 11:18:49 2024
    On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 12:17:36 -0800, Dave wrote:

    This will be the last ascension I post to rec.games.roguelike.nethack

    Thank you, anyways. - It made a fascinating read! :-)

    By nethack 3.3 [...] suddenly the old idea of ascending every role
    came back in force.

    [Naming characters by suitable film heroes]
    It was difficult to find an Archeologist who fit the bill. Since it was
    the last of the thirteen roles, and because I had started with Valkyrie,
    I would need a female character. This presented a number of problems.
    Who qualifies as an archeologist? To what degree are female
    archeologists represented in television and film? Which were formative
    for me, and which would stand up to an annual viewing?

    <Snipped an interesting chain of reasoning I mostly can totally agree with>

    Which left ��Raiders of The Lost Ark��, and Marion Ravenwood.

    Very good chaice, IMHO. And relatably reasoned-out, here, as well.

    So marion it was. She would be a dwarf, as I had only one other dwarf ascension. In general I add a new conduct for each new role, and the
    easiest to add to my stack looked like weaponless.

    You lost me here. I'd _never_ try archaeologist weaponless. But playing
    nearly every game petless, I'm probably not qualified enough to judge the possibility of a successful ascension with such a choice. Pets probably
    _may_ make the difference. ;-) (As may do early maxed-out protection,
    which can be retrieved from low experience combined with lots of dug-up treasures...)

    <Snipped lots of enthralling ups and downs>

    Then things started to get really bad. A master lich appeared.

    Weaponless _and_ genocidless?? - Seems like it. Uh-oh... (Lets read on.)

    It was at this point that I made a fateful mistake, but I wouldn��t
    discover it until I resumed the game the next day. The problem was
    staying up late to process inventory, enchanting the dagger stack, then immediately saving and going to bed. I never switched marion to bare
    hands after that, and didn��t remember to in the morning.

    Weaponless conduct gone. Puh! Now I see a tiny chance of ascension for
    this character. "Fateful" indeed, but I wouldn't call it "mistake". At
    this point I saw no chance, whatsoever, for Marion, to survive much
    longer without a considerable change in her overall potency. :-)

    After thinning out the castle defenses and crossing the moat, [...]
    the castle and its wand of wishing were hers.
    <Fast forward a couple of preoaration steps>
    One of the creatures summoned during the sacrifice fest dropped another
    wand of wishing. [...]

    Hm. Still no mention of a _used_ wish. Sounds like wishless conduct, as
    well. That's a bit more along the way of my possible conduct choices and
    _may_ be a possible acchievment for Marion, as far as her current equipment goes... :-)

    <Fast forward, again>

    It was about this time that I realized that I had lost the polyobjectless conduct. This meant that I had not only failed to gain a new conduct but lost one since my previous ascension. Though on consideration, I
    realized that the conduct count was the same as in my previous ascension,
    as somehow marion had never changed form.

    Seems, staying genocide- and wishless will remain a prominent goal.

    Slowly but surely all of these challenges were overcome, though one death
    zap bounced after killing the wizard and took out Michaelson II, angering Quetzalcoatl for the umpteenth time. Fortunately, thanks to the gremlins
    at the wizards tower, she had no protection left to lose.

    That's a real optimists view at the world: The (nearly empty) glass is
    "full to the brim": With some delicious drink and lots of indispensable
    air... ;-)

    The trip up to the top of the Dungeons of Doom was largely uneventful,
    [...]
    The elemental planes were uneventful.

    Calm before the storm?

    <Somewhat messy, but solvable endgame>

    When she reached the temple doorway it was blocked by another priest with
    an angel close behind. She teleported them away and marched to the
    altar. It was to Quetzalcoatl. She had done it. She chatted with the
    high priest of Quetzalcoatl to get 2 bits for the afterlife, then�K
    [...]
    You offer the Amulet of Yendor to Quetzalcoatl...--More--
    An invisible choir sings, and you are bathed in radiance...--More--
    The voice of Quetzalcoatl booms out: "Mortal, thou hast done well!"--More-- "In return for thy service, I grant thee the gift of Immortality!"--More-- You ascend to the status of Demigoddess...--More--

    Congratulations!! Honestly, with your ever-declining relationship to Quetzalcoatl I started to wonder, whether he would accept the amulet
    from you, at all... ;-P

    There's still sth. that makes me wonder:
    You had 250 out of 259 hit points.

    Alchemy doesn't seem to be your strong suit?

    Goodbye marion the Demigoddess...

    Goodbye from me as well.

    This ascension is dedicated to Ann Kathryn Lee, who ascended to demigoddess-hood in March of this year. Ann was my mother��s best
    friend, and I thought of her as my second mom. She was not my first
    dungeon master, but she ran the first full D&D campaign I ever
    participated in. She was a huge influence on my love of movies, music,
    and video games, and taught me what storytelling should feel like to the listener. I hope to one day be half as good of a dungeon master as she was.

    Your YAAP does the influence you described justice, IMHO. It was a very
    fine read. :-)

    Thank you!
    BeAr
    --
    ===========================================================================
    = What do you mean with: "Perfection is always an illusion"? = ===============================================================--(Oops!)===

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson@21:1/5 to Dave on Sat Dec 28 11:23:15 2024
    On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 12:17:36 -0800, Dave wrote:

    This will be the last ascension I post to rec.games.roguelike.nethack

    Thank you, anyways. - It made a fascinating read! :-)

    By nethack 3.3 [...] suddenly the old idea of ascending every role
    came back in force.

    [Naming characters by suitable film heroes]
    It was difficult to find an Archeologist who fit the bill. Since it was
    the last of the thirteen roles, and because I had started with Valkyrie,
    I would need a female character. This presented a number of problems.
    Who qualifies as an archeologist? To what degree are female
    archeologists represented in television and film? Which were formative
    for me, and which would stand up to an annual viewing?

    <Snipped an interesting chain of reasoning I mostly can totally agree with>

    Which left ��Raiders of The Lost Ark��, and Marion Ravenwood.

    Very good choice, IMHO. And reasoned-out in a relatable way, here, as well.

    So marion it was. She would be a dwarf, as I had only one other dwarf ascension. In general I add a new conduct for each new role, and the
    easiest to add to my stack looked like weaponless.

    You lost me here. I'd _never_ try archaeologist weaponless. But playing
    nearly every game petless, I'm probably not qualified enough to judge the possibility of a successful ascension with such a choice. Pets probably
    _may_ make the difference. ;-) (As may do early maxed-out protection,
    which can be retrieved from low experience combined with lots of dug-up treasures...)

    <Snipped lots of enthralling ups and downs>

    Then things started to get really bad. A master lich appeared.

    Weaponless _and_ genocide-less?? - Seems like it. Uh-oh... (Lets read on.)

    It was at this point that I made a fateful mistake, but I wouldn��t
    discover it until I resumed the game the next day. The problem was
    staying up late to process inventory, enchanting the dagger stack, then immediately saving and going to bed. I never switched marion to bare
    hands after that, and didn��t remember to in the morning.

    Weaponless conduct gone. Puh! Now I see a tiny chance of ascension for
    this character. "Fateful" indeed, but I wouldn't call it "mistake". At
    this point I saw no chance, whatsoever, for Marion, to survive much
    longer without a considerable change in her overall potency. :-)

    After thinning out the castle defenses and crossing the moat, [...]
    the castle and its wand of wishing were hers.
    <Fast forward a couple of preparation steps>
    One of the creatures summoned during the sacrifice fest dropped another
    wand of wishing. [...]

    Hm. Still no mention of a _used_ wish. Sounds like wishless conduct, as
    well. That's a bit more along the way of my possible conduct choices and
    _may_ be a possible achievement for Marion, as far as her current equipment goes... :-)

    <Fast forward, again>

    It was about this time that I realized that I had lost the polyobjectless conduct. This meant that I had not only failed to gain a new conduct but lost one since my previous ascension. Though on consideration, I
    realized that the conduct count was the same as in my previous ascension,
    as somehow marion had never changed form.

    Seems, staying genocide- and wishless will remain a prominent goal.

    Slowly but surely all of these challenges were overcome, though one death
    zap bounced after killing the wizard and took out Michaelson II, angering Quetzalcoatl for the umpteenth time. Fortunately, thanks to the gremlins
    at the wizards tower, she had no protection left to lose.

    That's a real optimists view at the world: The (nearly empty) glass is
    "full to the brim": With some delicious drink and lots of indispensable
    air... ;-)

    The trip up to the top of the Dungeons of Doom was largely uneventful,
    [...]
    The elemental planes were uneventful.

    Calm before the storm?

    <Somewhat messy, but solvable endgame>

    When she reached the temple doorway it was blocked by another priest with
    an angel close behind. She teleported them away and marched to the
    altar. It was to Quetzalcoatl. She had done it. She chatted with the
    high priest of Quetzalcoatl to get 2 bits for the afterlife, then�K
    [...]
    You offer the Amulet of Yendor to Quetzalcoatl...--More--
    An invisible choir sings, and you are bathed in radiance...--More--
    The voice of Quetzalcoatl booms out: "Mortal, thou hast done well!"--More-- "In return for thy service, I grant thee the gift of Immortality!"--More-- You ascend to the status of Demigoddess...--More--

    Congratulations!! Honestly, with your ever-declining relationship to Quetzalcoatl I started to wonder, whether he would accept the amulet
    from you, at all... ;-P

    There's still sth. that makes me wonder:
    You had 250 out of 259 hit points.

    Alchemy doesn't seem to be your strong suit?

    Goodbye marion the Demigoddess...

    Goodbye from me as well.

    This ascension is dedicated to Ann Kathryn Lee, who ascended to demigoddess-hood in March of this year. Ann was my mother��s best
    friend, and I thought of her as my second mom. She was not my first
    dungeon master, but she ran the first full D&D campaign I ever
    participated in. She was a huge influence on my love of movies, music,
    and video games, and taught me what storytelling should feel like to the listener. I hope to one day be half as good of a dungeon master as she was.

    Your YAAP does the influence you described justice, IMHO. It was a very
    fine read. :-)

    Thank you!
    BeAr
    --
    ===========================================================================
    = What do you mean with: "Perfection is always an illusion"? = ===============================================================--(Oops!)===

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Janis Papanagnou@21:1/5 to B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson on Sat Dec 28 19:06:14 2024
    On 28.12.2024 11:23, B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 12:17:36 -0800, Dave wrote:

    This will be the last ascension I post to rec.games.roguelike.nethack

    Thank you, anyways. - It made a fascinating read! :-)

    Indeed! :-)


    By nethack 3.3 [...] suddenly the old idea of ascending every role
    came back in force.

    [Naming characters by suitable film heroes]
    It was difficult to find an Archeologist who fit the bill. Since it was
    the last of the thirteen roles, and because I had started with Valkyrie,
    I would need a female character. This presented a number of problems.
    Who qualifies as an archeologist? To what degree are female
    archeologists represented in television and film? Which were formative
    for me, and which would stand up to an annual viewing?

    Here I was a bit astonished. - If I'd focus on characters or roles from
    other sources I'd not put on an IMO unnecessary "technical corset" like switching male/female between different and independent to ascend games. (Wouldn't it sound or be more reasonable to pick characters of fitting
    films or books and choose the appropriate game character approximation?)
    I mean, unless you want to play with specific female properties (laying
    eggs as a polymorphed character, for example) it doesn't appear as an
    essential characteristic, so one could focus on a better role-matching.


    <Snipped lots of enthralling ups and downs>

    [...]
    One of the creatures summoned during the sacrifice fest dropped another
    wand of wishing. [...]

    Hm. Still no mention of a _used_ wish. Sounds like wishless conduct, as
    well. [...]

    <Fast forward, again>

    It was about this time that I realized that I had lost the polyobjectless
    conduct. This meant that I had not only failed to gain a new conduct but
    lost one since my previous ascension. Though on consideration, I
    realized that the conduct count was the same as in my previous ascension,
    as somehow marion had never changed form.

    Seems, staying genocide- and wishless will remain a prominent goal.

    That astonished me as well; Dave didn't even mention it. Was it sort of standard for him? - At many stages of the game I wondered about why he
    didn't just genocide all the troubling major liches and mind-flayers.


    There's still sth. that makes me wonder:
    You had 250 out of 259 hit points.

    Alchemy doesn't seem to be your strong suit?

    Now that you mention it... - and also all the gain levels he drank. It
    could be explained by meleeing Death on Astral, but he didn't meet him.

    One (here unquoted) point of the OP's post made me curious; he spoke
    about skipping stones slung over water, the Sea of Medusa. - I've never
    noticed that such skipping is implemented in Nethack. Is that something
    in newer versions or did I just miss it? - And how is that that effect
    visibly distinguished from just throwing things across water?

    Another question concerns the levels/branches (of the dungeon overview)
    DevTeam Office:
    Deathmatch Arena:
    robotfindskitten:
    ...I suppose these are all TNNT-specific additions? - What do you find
    on these levels, or what is their purpose?

    Janis

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave@21:1/5 to Janis Papanagnou on Tue Dec 31 09:36:12 2024
    On 12/28/24 10:06 AM, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

    Here I was a bit astonished. - If I'd focus on characters or roles from other sources I'd not put on an IMO unnecessary "technical corset" like switching male/female between different and independent to ascend games. (Wouldn't it sound or be more reasonable to pick characters of fitting
    films or books and choose the appropriate game character approximation?)
    I mean, unless you want to play with specific female properties (laying
    eggs as a polymorphed character, for example) it doesn't appear as an essential characteristic, so one could focus on a better role-matching.


    Ultimately I didn't want to fall into the trap of creating an expected character for each role. I think when I did my second post, the replies
    were full of suggestions, but they were very closely associated with the expected - Conan for Barbarian, Twoflower for Tourist, Lancelot for
    Knight, etc. I wanted to bring something original to the table, and I
    find that my creativity flourishes through constraint. Switching
    genders every game would keep my choices unexpected, both to others and
    to myself. I feel like I could have done a little better with the race choices, but my priority there was really seeing how the races played,
    rather than the races informing my character creation process.


    Seems, staying genocide- and wishless will remain a prominent goal.

    That astonished me as well; Dave didn't even mention it. Was it sort of standard for him? - At many stages of the game I wondered about why he didn't just genocide all the troubling major liches and mind-flayers.


    I address this in my other reply, but my modality is to add to the
    conduct stack each time, and wishless and genocideless have been part of
    every ascension for a while. I'm trying to work up to as large of a
    stack as it's possible to make (I suspect it could be everything except atheist...I am not sure how anybody does vegan/foodless without praying
    to solve hunger)


    One (here unquoted) point of the OP's post made me curious; he spoke
    about skipping stones slung over water, the Sea of Medusa. - I've never noticed that such skipping is implemented in Nethack. Is that something
    in newer versions or did I just miss it? - And how is that that effect visibly distinguished from just throwing things across water?

    I think this might have been an add in 3.6, I don't think I remember it
    in 3.4.3; I think it was to counter just this kind of activity - using low-powered items to get rid of moat creatures instead of spending high
    powered resources on them. But if you throw a stone or sling it in 3.6
    over water, there is a chance that it skips over your target.


    Another question concerns the levels/branches (of the dungeon overview) DevTeam Office:
    Deathmatch Arena:
    robotfindskitten:
    ...I suppose these are all TNNT-specific additions? - What do you find
    on these levels, or what is their purpose?

    Yes, the /dev/null Tournament had a tradition of adding a new mini-game
    level each year. Some were callouts to old standup arcade games, some
    to other old text adventures, etc. If memory serves one was essentially
    a game of pool where you would apply a cue to knock boulders into holes.
    The hardfought tournament implements similar "extra levels",
    attempting to add flavor without upsetting game balance.

    robotfindskitten is a big-room style level accessed through an early
    portal populated by random objects somewhat like those the player
    perceives while hallucinating. Standing next to the right object turns
    it into a tame kitten.

    DevTeam office is a level which has a more quest-like layout.
    Periodically you find a scroll of C++ code going through the dungeon.
    Returning 3 of these scrolls to the DevTeam in the office level
    (accessed by a portal in the rogue-level, if memory serves) furnishes
    the player with a Really Cool T-shirt, which is a t-shirt which provides
    a random rumor when read.

    Deathmatch Arena is, if I understand it, a way to allow tournament
    players to fight one another? I'm not sure. It seems like a way to not ascend, so I avoid it.

    There are also 2 "swap-chests" in the hardfought tournament - one at
    Mines' End and one in the Valley of the Dead. They have the appearance
    of "Sapient Pearwood Chests". A player can add one item of arbitrarily
    judged power to the chest and remove one. In this way players can
    contribute to one another's success. There are certain limitations -
    you can't add wands of wishing, for instance.

    These features aren't canon, certainly, but they are harmless fun 🙂 Junethack doesn't have any of this kind of stuff, it's limited to The
    November Nethack Tournament.

    Dave


    Janis


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave@21:1/5 to B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson on Tue Dec 31 09:35:14 2024
    On 12/28/24 2:23 AM, B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson wrote:

    So marion it was. She would be a dwarf, as I had only one other dwarf
    ascension. In general I add a new conduct for each new role, and the
    easiest to add to my stack looked like weaponless.

    You lost me here. I'd _never_ try archaeologist weaponless. But playing nearly every game petless, I'm probably not qualified enough to judge the possibility of a successful ascension with such a choice. Pets probably _may_ make the difference. 😉 (As may do early maxed-out protection, which can be retrieved from low experience combined with lots of dug-up treasures...)


    I realize at this point this needs a little explanation. As I went
    through my first 13 ascensions, I began to understand that regardless of
    role difficulty, the mid-late game is really sort of the same no matter
    what role you choose. The only way to keep the game really fresh, then,
    is to keep adding new conducts on each ascension. Many of the YAAPs I
    read in the mid-90s were from people stacking as many conducts as possible...true, most of them were Monks, but it occurred to me at some
    point that conduct stacking should theoretically be possible for any
    role. Some would certainly be harder than others, and ideally the roles
    would be balanced such that this would be possible. I realize after
    this attempt that the roles are not balanced adequately for that theory
    to be provable, but stacking conducts does serve to make every game more challenging than the last. This is why I was so distraught when I lost polypileless. I thought seriously about scuttling the game at that
    point, but I really wanted to ascend Marion during the tournament 🙂


    Weaponless conduct gone. Puh! Now I see a tiny chance of ascension for
    this character. "Fateful" indeed, but I wouldn't call it "mistake". At
    this point I saw no chance, whatsoever, for Marion, to survive much
    longer without a considerable change in her overall potency. 🙂

    I really would like to have understood where the power curve here
    naturally gave way. I'm confident I would have been able to take the
    quest and the castle at least with 22 +6 daggers, and I suspect a good
    chunk of Gehennom as well. The wizard, I suspect, is where the power
    curve would have faltered, and an inability to deal with him using
    strong melee weapons after he stole the Orb of Detection would have been
    my downfall.


    Slowly but surely all of these challenges were overcome, though one
    death
    zap bounced after killing the wizard and took out Michaelson II,
    angering
    Quetzalcoatl for the umpteenth time. Fortunately, thanks to the gremlins
    at the wizards tower, she had no protection left to lose.

    That's a real optimists view at the world: The (nearly empty) glass is
    "full to the brim": With some delicious drink and lots of indispensable air... 😉


    I have had so many "I deserved this" YASD moments over the years that I
    am pleasantly surprised when one of my games survives a dumb mistake 🙂


    Congratulations!! Honestly, with your ever-declining relationship to Quetzalcoatl I started to wonder, whether he would accept the amulet
    from you, at all... 😜

    There's still sth. that makes me wonder:
    You had 250 out of 259 hit points.

    Alchemy doesn't seem to be your strong suit?


    This game was not one of my more patient ascensions...really a
    combination of tournament clock-watching and a real need to complete
    this project to make brain space for other stuff 🙂 Typically I will
    perform alchemy less often, saving as many potions as possible for later
    in the game. I've lost stacks of healing potions to magical explosions
    enough that I don't try to improve them anymore. I typically make up
    the shortfall by nurse-dancing, but I didn't seem to want to take the time.

    Goodbye marion the Demigoddess...

    Goodbye from me as well.

    This ascension is dedicated to Ann Kathryn Lee, who ascended to
    demigoddess-hood in March of this year. Ann was my mother’s best
    friend, and I thought of her as my second mom. She was not my first
    dungeon master, but she ran the first full D&D campaign I ever
    participated in. She was a huge influence on my love of movies, music,
    and video games, and taught me what storytelling should feel like to the
    listener. I hope to one day be half as good of a dungeon master as
    she was.

    Your YAAP does the influence you described justice, IMHO. It was a very
    fine read. 🙂

    I appreciate that 🙂


    Thank you!
    BeAr

    Likewise!

    Dave

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Steele@21:1/5 to Dave on Sun Jan 5 04:41:50 2025
    Dave wrote:
    On 12/28/24 10:06 AM, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

    Here I was a bit astonished. - If I'd focus on characters or roles from other sources I'd not put on an IMO unnecessary "technical corset" like switching male/female between different and independent to ascend games. (Wouldn't it sound or be more reasonable to pick characters of fitting films or books and choose the appropriate game character approximation?)
    I mean, unless you want to play with specific female properties (laying eggs as a polymorphed character, for example) it doesn't appear as an essential characteristic, so one could focus on a better role-matching.


    Ultimately I didn't want to fall into the trap of creating an expected character for each role.  I think when I did my second post, the replies were full of suggestions, but they were very closely associated with the expected - Conan for Barbarian, Twoflower for Tourist, Lancelot for
    Knight, etc.  I wanted to bring something original to the table, and I
    find that my creativity flourishes through constraint.  Switching
    genders every game would keep my choices unexpected, both to others and
    to myself.  I feel like I could have done a little better with the race choices, but my priority there was really seeing how the races played,
    rather than the races informing my character creation process.


    Seems, staying genocide- and wishless will remain a prominent goal.

    That astonished me as well; Dave didn't even mention it. Was it sort of standard for him? - At many stages of the game I wondered about why he didn't just genocide all the troubling major liches and mind-flayers.


    I address this in my other reply, but my modality is to add to the
    conduct stack each time, and wishless and genocideless have been part of every ascension for a while.  I'm trying to work up to as large of a
    stack as it's possible to make (I suspect it could be everything except atheist...I am not sure how anybody does vegan/foodless without praying
    to solve hunger)

    Vegan would allow the fortune cookie conduct of only blessed fortune
    cookies, which is a relatively straightforward conduct.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Steele@21:1/5 to Dave on Sun Jan 5 04:44:42 2025
    Dave wrote:
    On 12/28/24 2:23 AM, B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson wrote:

    So marion it was.  She would be a dwarf, as I had only one other dwarf
    ascension.  In general I add a new conduct for each new role, and the
    easiest to add to my stack looked like weaponless.

    You lost me here. I'd _never_ try archaeologist weaponless. But playing nearly every game petless, I'm probably not qualified enough to judge
    the
    possibility of a successful ascension with such a choice. Pets probably _may_ make the difference. 😉  (As may do early maxed-out protection, which can be retrieved from low experience combined with lots of dug-up treasures...)


    I realize at this point this needs a little explanation.  As I went
    through my first 13 ascensions, I began to understand that regardless of
    role difficulty, the mid-late game is really sort of the same no matter
    what role you choose.  The only way to keep the game really fresh, then,
    is to keep adding new conducts on each ascension.  Many of the YAAPs I
    read in the mid-90s were from people stacking as many conducts as possible...true, most of them were Monks, but it occurred to me at some
    point that conduct stacking should theoretically be possible for any
    role.  Some would certainly be harder than others, and ideally the roles would be balanced such that this would be possible.  I realize after
    this attempt that the roles are not balanced adequately for that theory
    to be provable, but stacking conducts does serve to make every game more challenging than the last.  This is why I was so distraught when I lost polypileless.  I thought seriously about scuttling the game at that
    point, but I really wanted to ascend Marion during the tournament 🙂


    Weaponless conduct gone. Puh! Now I see a tiny chance of ascension for this character. "Fateful" indeed, but I wouldn't call it "mistake". At this point I saw no chance, whatsoever, for Marion, to survive much
    longer without a considerable change in her overall potency.  🙂

    I really would like to have understood where the power curve here
    naturally gave way.  I'm confident I would have been able to take the
    quest and the castle at least with 22 +6 daggers, and I suspect a good
    chunk of Gehennom as well.  The wizard, I suspect, is where the power
    curve would have faltered, and an inability to deal with him using
    strong melee weapons after he stole the Orb of Detection would have been
    my downfall.


    Slowly but surely all of these challenges were overcome, though one
    death
    zap bounced after killing the wizard and took out Michaelson II,
    angering
    Quetzalcoatl for the umpteenth time. Fortunately, thanks to the
    gremlins
    at the wizards tower, she had no protection left to lose.

    That's a real optimists view at the world: The (nearly empty) glass is "full to the brim": With some delicious drink and lots of indispensable air...  😉


    I have had so many "I deserved this" YASD moments over the years that I
    am pleasantly surprised when one of my games survives a dumb mistake 🙂

    This is a powerful skill. I'm studying mistake recovery right now too.
    If I don't show much improvement in three weeks I'll look for a book
    about it. Up to now I've had 1 win after a dreadful mistake, I'm so
    glad I didn't throw in the towel.

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