How to handle color settings in roguelikes, generally?
(Or in NNDNH, specifically.)

In my earlier NH days, playing locally on my computer or at
the NAO server, I had quite acceptable colors (or had just
set them appropriately in the configuration file to choose
more appropriate colors, e.g. for specific [dangerous] types
of monsters to become better visible and distinguishable).

On the Hardfought server while trying many different NH
variants I experienced different settings, some suboptimal
ones and some even worse. (For example the well-known
beep-blue monsters that can't be reliably seen at a black
background.) With some variants having the tile symbol's
background color also set (e.g. for peaceful monsters) the
foreground color very often gets spoiled and the monster
hardly identifiable.

Now recently (during the past few days!) the colors of my
long-time played NNDNH game ("magically") changed. They
now have even less contrast than before and I'm wondering
what happened; did they change the variant's color setting?
(The NNDNH game reports: "last build 2024-09-15 21:24:10",
which doesn't quite match the time I observed the changes.)

(Note: I reset my terminal before starting the ssh session
to be sure the problem is not on my terminal's side.)

Other still active games on that server from other variants
(e.g. an Hack'EM game) doesn't show such spoiled colors (or
spoiled default color settings; whatever applies).

I would have thought that the decades old NH color issues
would get better over time. That some sensible standards
would get implemented. And maybe some convergence between
variants. But no, obviously.

What could the players do - define for every variant own
color profiles? (If that works in the first place; I have
some doubts.)

Janis

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Janis Papanagnou <[email protected]> writes:

How to handle color settings in roguelikes, generally?

Roguelikes are a very wide category. There's no answer to that
question, especially since graphical roguelikes exist and those will
have completely different colour settings.

(Or in NNDNH, specifically.)

In my earlier NH days, playing locally on my computer or at
the NAO server, I had quite acceptable colors (or had just
set them appropriately in the configuration file to choose
more appropriate colors, e.g. for specific [dangerous] types
of monsters to become better visible and distinguishable).

On the Hardfought server while trying many different NH
variants I experienced different settings, some suboptimal
ones and some even worse. (For example the well-known
beep-blue monsters that can't be reliably seen at a black
background.) With some variants having the tile symbol's
background color also set (e.g. for peaceful monsters) the
foreground color very often gets spoiled and the monster
hardly identifiable.

Now recently (during the past few days!) the colors of my
long-time played NNDNH game ("magically") changed. They
now have even less contrast than before and I'm wondering
what happened; did they change the variant's color setting?
(The NNDNH game reports: "last build 2024-09-15 21:24:10",
which doesn't quite match the time I observed the changes.)

Nothing has changed in NNDNH's colour settings. There is an option
called classic_colors that affects whether the curses interface uses
your terminal's default colours (if classic_colors is off) or sets its
own colour settings (if it's on). NNDNH has always disabled this option
by default, and NDNH and DNH have always enabled it by default (since it
was added). The tty interface has always used your terminal's default
colours, although something has actually changed recently: if you have a 16-colour terminal it will use bright colours instead of simulating them
by by using bold colours. However, this has also been the case since
the first release of NNDNH.

Are you using curses? If so, it sounds like you may have accidentally
toggled classic_colors.

The DNH/NDNH/NNDNH curses interface supports changing RGB values for
colours using the SETCOLOR and RESETCOLOR options (RESETCOLOR exists for
buggy terminals that don't support querying colours in a compatible way, resulting in colours not being reset correctly on exit). These are
documented here: https://codeberg.org/noisytoot/notnotdnethack/commit/6757a181bc7cc214d37a244340ccf60ac015f5f5

If you are using the tty interface (or curses with !classic_colors and
no SETCOLOR), what RGB values colours are defined as is entirely your terminal's responsibility.

Monster/dungeon colours can be changed using the 3.4.3-NAO MONSTERCOLOR
and DUNGEONCOLOR. Template colours can be changed using the
MONSTERTEMPLATE option, documented here: https://codeberg.org/noisytoot/notnotdnethack/commit/236614ff165259764f09cb869aede2cec29f7e7d

(Note: I reset my terminal before starting the ssh session
to be sure the problem is not on my terminal's side.)

Other still active games on that server from other variants
(e.g. an Hack'EM game) doesn't show such spoiled colors (or
spoiled default color settings; whatever applies).

I would have thought that the decades old NH color issues
would get better over time. That some sensible standards
would get implemented. And maybe some convergence between
variants. But no, obviously.

What could the players do - define for every variant own
color profiles? (If that works in the first place; I have
some doubts.)

Configure your terminal to show colours correctly, and when the default settings override your terminal's colours, complain to the developer(s)
about the stupid defaults (yes, classic_colors by default is stupid).

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12.10.2024 21:53, Ron Nazarov wrote:

Janis Papanagnou <[email protected]> writes:

How to handle color settings in roguelikes, generally?

Roguelikes are a very wide category. There's no answer to that
question, especially since graphical roguelikes exist and those will
have completely different colour settings.

I'm playing on the server with a comparably simple tty
interface (no drawn sub-windows or some such, just with
the basic pop-up text windows, e.g. when listing the
inventory).

Sure, variants vary. I wasn't expecting that settings are
"completely different", though. - So I'm focusing on the
possible reason for the recent change in appearance...

[...]

Now recently (during the past few days!) the colors of my
long-time played NNDNH game ("magically") changed. They
now have even less contrast than before and I'm wondering
what happened; did they change the variant's color setting?
(The NNDNH game reports: "last build 2024-09-15 21:24:10",
which doesn't quite match the time I observed the changes.)

Nothing has changed in NNDNH's colour settings. There is an option
called classic_colors that affects whether the curses interface uses
your terminal's default colours (if classic_colors is off) or sets its
own colour settings (if it's on). NNDNH has always disabled this option
by default, and NDNH and DNH have always enabled it by default (since it
was added). The tty interface has always used your terminal's default colours, although something has actually changed recently: if you have a 16-colour terminal it will use bright colours instead of simulating them
by by using bold colours. However, this has also been the case since
the first release of NNDNH.

Are you using curses? If so, it sounds like you may have accidentally
toggled classic_colors.

I observe that the in-game menu does not allow to toggle
"classic_colors", so it cannot have happened accidentally.

I've just tried to change that attribute in the configuration
file; but no difference, whether it's set to true or false.

[...]

If you are using the tty interface (or curses with !classic_colors and
no SETCOLOR), what RGB values colours are defined as is entirely your terminal's responsibility.

I'd have thought that invoking a 'reset' command in my Unix
terminal session and another 'reset' from the menu of my
windowing window should fix any "accidental changes"; at
least it always did in cases where some ANSI characters
(from other games on that server) corrupted something in the
past. But, as said, not in this case, so I ruled out that
possibility.

And all other applications' colors in that or other sessions
have absolutely no issue. It's only that specific variant. (I
think I already mentioned that running games' colors of other
variants are okay.) That's why I'd think that this strangely
appearing change could possibly only stem from the recently
changed game version on the Hardfought server.

[...]

(Note: I reset my terminal before starting the ssh session
to be sure the problem is not on my terminal's side.)

Other still active games on that server from other variants
(e.g. an Hack'EM game) doesn't show such spoiled colors (or
spoiled default color settings; whatever applies).

[...]

What could the players do - define for every variant own
color profiles? (If that works in the first place; I have
some doubts.)

Configure your terminal to show colours correctly,

None of my terminals' colors have changed. (I'm running about
60 shell terminals 24/7 now for an uptime of four months w/o
reboot and no terminal and no application has any color issue.)
The only observable color change is, as reported, with the
current NNDNH game version on the Hardfought server.

and when the default
settings override your terminal's colours, complain to the developer(s)
about the stupid defaults (yes, classic_colors by default is stupid).

Changing the 'classic_colors' attribute explicitly (to either
possible state) doesn't change anything.

So it seems I will have to live with the situation when playing
that variant.

Thanks anyway for your try to identify or pin down the issue.
Much appreciated.

Janis

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