In a recent Hack'EM game I observed that the monster generation rate
had changed from 1.0 to >4.0. I was astonished what did that, and my suspicion was that some misbehavior or finishing of quests etc. may
increase it. Otherwise such a high mid-game value would be hard to understand. Now I read in the source code that (pre-invocation) this behavior sees to apply, turn-based:
"The rate increases linearly with turns. The rule of thumb is that
at turn x the rate is approximately (x / 30.0000) times the normal
rate. Maximal rate is 8x the normal rate."
But I am at T:~76000 already and the rate is still 1.0, so I neither understand that high value in my other game, nor that low value in
my current game. (A peek into the source code as well didn't help.)
Janis
[ dynamic monster generation rate ]
This comes from EvilHack (but may have originated elsewhere?
GruntHack, maybe?) . And is an element that completely
destroys the game, in my opinion.
I could live with a LOT of what is
in EvilHack if this did not exist or was not so harsh. It gets to be way
too much to the point where simple tasks are overwhelming with way
too many monsters.
I was initially excited for Hack'EM, but interest is severely waning.
A modern port of Slash'EM, with some things to help with balancing
and few added item? Yes, please. It is reading to be anything but. I did start a vampire wizard, but was immediately off and parked the
character because it seems vampire hunger was removed for some
reason? Was quite a successful character otherwise. Just made it no
fun. That said, I will still be trying it out further.
I did start a vampire wizard, but was immediately off and parked the character because it seems vampire hunger was removed for some
reason? Was quite a successful character otherwise. Just made it no
fun. That said, I will still be trying it out further.
--
"The rate increases linearly with turns. The rule of thumb is that
at turn x the rate is approximately (x / 30.0000) times the normal
rate. Maximal rate is 8x the normal rate."
But I am at T:~76000 already and the rate is still 1.0, so I neither understand that high value in my other game, nor that low value in
my current game. (A peek into the source code as well didn't help.)
Monster spawn rates only change when you've done the invocation. Only
after that it will increase to 4 times the normal monster generation
rate.
If I'd design such a feature from scratch I'd probably start with...
Janis
On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 7:27:38 PM UTC-4, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
If I'd design such a feature from scratch I'd probably start with...
Could you? Please? PLEASE make your own variant.
Oh no, on the contrary - I've been extremely attentive to everything you say, I've even
been taking notes. Obviously you're the most knowledgeable nethack player here on
RGRN, it only makes sense that you should create your own variant, this way the rest
of us lowly variant devs can witness what a truly balanced and thought-out game
looks like, free of errors and balance issues. Just a great playing experience every time,
start to finish! I beg of you, please, if not for me, do it for the rest of the community.
Grace us with your brilliance.
On 15.05.2023 15:15, Keith Simpson wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 7:27:38 PM UTC-4, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
If I'd design such a feature from scratch I'd probably start with...
Could you? Please? PLEASE make your own variant.Why should I? (I neither have the intention nor the time for that.)
And since you were obviously inattentive; I spoke about "design" not
about "implementation". I think we have enough variants already that
have been just adding features borrowed from each other, and IMO we
don't need yet more of that. YMMV.
I think it's better to improve existing variants. YMMV. (Mind this is
a thread labeled [hackem]; and the author of that variant explicitly
asked for feedback.)
In case you were missing the point; we were just discussing features
(and how some variants implemented these). - If you're interested to contribute to that discussion feel free to join.
Janis
On 15.05.2023 16:27, Keith Simpson wrote:
Oh no, on the contrary - I've been extremely attentive to everything you say, I've evenYour arrogance is priceless.
been taking notes. Obviously you're the most knowledgeable nethack player here on
RGRN, it only makes sense that you should create your own variant, this way the rest
of us lowly variant devs can witness what a truly balanced and thought-out game
looks like, free of errors and balance issues. Just a great playing experience every time,
start to finish! I beg of you, please, if not for me, do it for the rest of the community.
Grace us with your brilliance.
On 15.05.2023 15:15, Keith Simpson wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 7:27:38 PM UTC-4, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
If I'd design such a feature from scratch I'd probably start with...
Could you? Please? PLEASE make your own variant.Why should I? (I neither have the intention nor the time for that.)
On 15.05.2023 16:27, Keith Simpson wrote:
Oh no, on the contrary - I've been extremely attentive to everything you say, I've even
been taking notes. Obviously you're the most knowledgeable nethack player here on
RGRN, it only makes sense that you should create your own variant, this way the rest
of us lowly variant devs can witness what a truly balanced and thought-out game
looks like, free of errors and balance issues. Just a great playing experience every time,
start to finish! I beg of you, please, if not for me, do it for the rest of the community.
Grace us with your brilliance.
Your arrogance is priceless.
On Sunday, May 14, 2023 at 2:50:04 PM UTC-4, RecRanger wrote:role in hackem than in any other variant I've played.
I did start a vampire wizard, but was immediately off and parked the character because it seems vampire hunger was removed for some
reason? Was quite a successful character otherwise. Just made it no
fun. That said, I will still be trying it out further.
--This is hothraxxa. Background: I've ascended all variants except hackem and notdnethack. I have vampire wizard ascensions in dynahack, slashem, slashthem, and unnethack. I've been playing vampire wizard in hackem and I have no doubt that it is a harder
I'm not sure what you mean by vampire hunger. Hunger kicks in at xl10. Even with a ring of slow digestion, I find it necessary to pray for hunger relief more often than in other variants. This is probably because you no longer the ability to draincorpses. This is a major change. Since they also removed the #monster shapechanging ability for vampires, crowning is pretty much mandatory. You can't gain intrinsics otherwise without polymorphing, which is a difficult mechanic to manage.
Whether or not you find this fun is a personal thing. I for one do not, but I want an ascension in every variant, so... I am a strong believer in the right of developers to make any changes they like, but if a variant is not fun to play then I stopplaying it. A great example of this is sporkhack, which has what I consider absolutely horrible "gotchas". The straw that broke the camel's back was when my orc priest completed the quest and discovered that in my game, the Miter of Holiness was a
On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 10:30:48 AM UTC-4, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
On 15.05.2023 16:27, Keith Simpson wrote:
Oh no, on the contrary - I've been extremely attentive to everything you say, I've even
been taking notes. Obviously you're the most knowledgeable nethack player here on
RGRN, it only makes sense that you should create your own variant, this way the rest
of us lowly variant devs can witness what a truly balanced and thought-out game
looks like, free of errors and balance issues. Just a great playing experience every time,
start to finish! I beg of you, please, if not for me, do it for the rest of the community.
Grace us with your brilliance.
'
Your arrogance is priceless.This also turned me off of EvilHack. I tried to, many versions ago, give feedback — but was
*extremely* dismissive, arrogant and made fun of my plight instead offering any form
of support. It may be have been playful teasing/razzing that males are so fond of, but I
did not appreciate it. I expressed I was genuinely upset with their response and they
made fun of that, too.
--
That is not how I am, you're either making this up or at the very least exaggerating an exchange
we may have had, I get it if you received an answer that you didn't like. You have a conversation
log you can reference? Everything in #hardfought and #evilhack is logged and publicly accessible,
or maybe it was an email exchange? I save those as well.
On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 6:59:50 PM UTC-4, RecRanger wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 10:30:48 AM UTC-4, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
On 15.05.2023 16:27, Keith Simpson wrote:
Oh no, on the contrary - I've been extremely attentive to everything you say, I've even
been taking notes. Obviously you're the most knowledgeable nethack player here on
RGRN, it only makes sense that you should create your own variant, this way the rest
of us lowly variant devs can witness what a truly balanced and thought-out game
looks like, free of errors and balance issues. Just a great playing experience every time,
start to finish! I beg of you, please, if not for me, do it for the rest of the community.
Grace us with your brilliance.
'
Your arrogance is priceless.This also turned me off of EvilHack. I tried to, many versions ago, give feedback — but was
*extremely* dismissive, arrogant and made fun of my plight instead offering any form
of support. It may be have been playful teasing/razzing that males are so fond of, but I
did not appreciate it. I expressed I was genuinely upset with their response and they
made fun of that, too.
--RecRanger,
That is not how I am, you're either making this up or at the very least exaggerating an exchange
we may have had, I get it if you received an answer that you didn't like. You have a conversation
log you can reference? Everything in #hardfought and #evilhack is logged and publicly accessible,
or maybe it was an email exchange? I save those as well.
I'm messing with Janis here a lil bit because quite frankly, he deserves it.
Monster generation rates - given when the rates jump up, by the time you're at that point, you should
be of a high enough level to be able to handle whatever comes your way. It can even be a boon,
especially if you're low on a particular resource, as monsters tend to drop a fair amount of basically
everything.
game in at least a decade.That is not how I am, you're either making this up or at the very least exaggerating an exchangeFWIW, I have made several suggestions for new features and bug reports to Keith and he has always been friendly and accommodating. I have been playing Nethack and its predecessors since 1989 and in my opinion EvilHack is the best thing to happen to the
we may have had, I get it if you received an answer that you didn't like. You have a conversation
log you can reference? Everything in #hardfought and #evilhack is logged and publicly accessible,
or maybe it was an email exchange? I save those as well.
There is enough character assassination on the Internet already that I don't think we need to add any more in this ng. Particularly at the expense of a developer who has not only created a splendid variant, but also hosts the public server whereeveryone can play his favorite free of charge.
--MightyQuinn
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