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  • [evilhack] Is canceling considered an extraordinary alignment abuse?

    From Janis Papanagnou@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 11 12:17:26 2023
    I wonder whether _canceling_ is considered an *extraordinary* alignment
    abuse in EvilHack?

    My current record of "abusive actions":
    - (deliberately) ate a floating eye as a Monk => slightly abused
    - canceled a peaceful by accident, killed it => (moderately/seriously)?
    - canceled a peaceful by accident, killed it => severely abused

    With these _three_ abuses I got in the abuse-alignment range of 30..49, *irreversibly*. (Doesn't make it better if canceling and killing the
    hostile monster are technically considered as two abuses.) - Very very
    badly balanced, IMO.

    Or is it also penalized if canceling a hostile monster? - In that case (although I wouldn't understand the rationale behind such a design) my
    Monk would have 2 or 3 more "dirty deeds" done.

    Practically that means that my Monk can now kill and eat what he likes,
    it cannot really get much worse for practical purposes?

    Janis

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  • From Mobi Leuser@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 11 05:47:10 2023
    Cancelling a hostile monster is fine and doesn't count as abusing your alignment.

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  • From Janis Papanagnou@21:1/5 to Janis Papanagnou on Fri Apr 14 10:52:32 2023
    On 11.04.2023 12:17, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
    [...]

    With these _three_ abuses I got in the abuse-alignment range of 30..49, *irreversibly*. [...]

    Practically that means that my Monk can now kill and eat what he likes,
    it cannot really get much worse for practical purposes?

    I have noticed in the source code that killing the quest leader will
    have [persistent] negative effects on _luck_. Since I anyway won't
    get the quest artifact with that massive "abuse record", and killing
    the quest leader would have yet more irreversible disadvantages
    there's no point in fighting the overly tough quest nemesis, right?

    Out of interest; can Master Kaen be defeated (as in Nethack/Slashem)
    using a boulder fort and missiles or is that quest made even harder
    in EvilHack? (If so, what would the preferred tactics be? I suppose
    Elbereth and a scroll of scare monster won't reliably work for all
    the E and X that will pass a boulder fort, or is at least the scroll
    a safe place? - With the E's new engulfing attack it anyway appears
    to be a quite unattractive place even without Master Kaen.)

    Janis

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  • From Mobi Leuser@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 14 03:08:20 2023
    I have noticed in the source code that killing the quest leader will
    have [persistent] negative effects on _luck_. Since I anyway won't
    get the quest artifact with that massive "abuse record", and killing
    the quest leader would have yet more irreversible disadvantages
    there's no point in fighting the overly tough quest nemesis, right?

    You'll need to either return the quest artifact to the quest leader or kill the quest leader, otherwise the Bell of Opening won't work for the invocation.
    I don't understand what you mean by "no point in fighting the overly tough quest nemesis". You still need the Bell of Opening.

    Out of interest; can Master Kaen be defeated (as in Nethack/Slashem)
    using a boulder fort and missiles or is that quest made even harder
    in EvilHack? (If so, what would the preferred tactics be? I suppose
    Elbereth and a scroll of scare monster won't reliably work for all
    the E and X that will pass a boulder fort, or is at least the scroll
    a safe place? - With the E's new engulfing attack it anyway appears
    to be a quite unattractive place even without Master Kaen.)

    In Evilhack, scare tactics like the E-word or scare monster or a tooled horn don't work on mindless monsters.
    I think boulder fort + magic missile can work against Kaen, but I'm not completely sure. Hopefully one of the monk specialists can say more.
    Personally I've always waited until my AC and HP were good enough to just straight up melee him.

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  • From Janis Papanagnou@21:1/5 to Mobi Leuser on Fri Apr 14 13:12:38 2023
    On 14.04.2023 12:08, Mobi Leuser wrote:

    You'll need to either return the quest artifact to the quest leader
    or kill the quest leader, otherwise the Bell of Opening won't work
    for the invocation. I don't understand what you mean by "no point in
    fighting the overly tough quest nemesis". You still need the Bell of
    Opening.

    Ah, right. Sorry for not having explained the background thought.
    Given the experience thus far about new features of unexpected
    fatal deaths I am quite sure right now already that I won't finish
    that game; either by such an unexpected death event or by annoyance
    that I cannot fix any effectively essential property. So I probably
    just explore that game a bit more - maybe trying the Ice level -
    and then quit and try out another variant.

    [ Master Kaen ]

    In Evilhack, scare tactics like the E-word or scare monster or a
    tooled horn don't work on mindless monsters. I think boulder fort +
    magic missile can work against Kaen, but I'm not completely sure.

    I usually use physical missiles (like darts) against him. Magic
    missile (from wands) had never been very effective and the supply
    of wands too short to finish him (or other tougher monsters), IME.

    Hopefully one of the monk specialists can say more. Personally I've
    always waited until my AC and HP were good enough to just straight up
    melee him.

    It's now been many many years that I meleed him. Usually I am not
    waiting in my games until I am buffed up to hilarious HP/AC amounts
    so it was always quite dangerous, and he's generally considered a
    quite dangerous foe. The boulder fort provides a means of handling
    the task without recklessly challenging my fate.

    What I now fear in this variant is that he (or some other monster)
    zaps striking and opens the boulder fort that way.

    Janis

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  • From Mobi Leuser@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 14 04:30:59 2023
    Ah, right. Sorry for not having explained the background thought.
    Given the experience thus far about new features of unexpected
    fatal deaths I am quite sure right now already that I won't finish
    that game; either by such an unexpected death event or by annoyance
    that I cannot fix any effectively essential property. So I probably
    just explore that game a bit more - maybe trying the Ice level -
    and then quit and try out another variant.

    Ah, shame, but hey, if you're not enjoying it...
    I have played a lot of evilhack, but currently I'm mainly playing a new variant called Hack'EM which is an interesting mix of Slash'EM, Evilhack and Splicehack
    (https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Hack%27EM)


    What I now fear in this variant is that he (or some other monster)
    zaps striking and opens the boulder fort that way.

    You guessed right, that is something that can happen!

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)