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  • What means "off contest" in a chess match?

    From Eli Kesef@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 2 10:20:22 2022
    Bs"d

    Here on this page https://en.wikipedia.orgwikiParis_City_Chess_Championship there are sometimes two winners mentioned, and one as "off contest".
    Does anybody know what that means?

    https://tinyurl.com/lifes-fault

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  • From Quadibloc@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 25 21:17:17 2022
    Your URL did not work, even after I tried to repair it.
    However, I found something similar at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Chess_Championship
    Ah, wait, this is closer to the page you intended https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_City_Chess_Championship
    but that's odd, since that's what I tried to repair the URL to, and it didn't work.
    Oh, well.

    That term also occurs here, without explanation: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Vladas_Mik%C4%97nas

    I believe it means that a player's score qualified that player for a certain result,
    but for another reason, that player was not qualified, and so the actual
    award of prizes occured as though that player was not there.
    Why such a thing would happen, though, I do not know.

    John Savard

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  • From Eli Kesef@21:1/5 to Quadibloc on Tue Jan 25 22:36:48 2022
    On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:17:18 AM UTC+2, Quadibloc wrote:
    Your URL did not work, even after I tried to repair it.
    However, I found something similar at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Chess_Championship
    Ah, wait, this is closer to the page you intended https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_City_Chess_Championship
    but that's odd, since that's what I tried to repair the URL to, and it didn't work.
    Oh, well.

    That term also occurs here, without explanation: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Vladas_Mik%C4%97nas

    I believe it means that a player's score qualified that player for a certain result,
    but for another reason, that player was not qualified, and so the actual award of prizes occured as though that player was not there.
    Why such a thing would happen, though, I do not know.

    John Savard

    Bs"d

    Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering what it was.

    The last link you gave, this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_City_Chess_Championship is the right one.

    In my link somehow some slashes disappeared, killing the link.

    https://tinyurl.com/pick-pocket

    (I love to send the above link to my opponent when he asks for a take back :D)

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  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jan 26 01:24:27 2022
    On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:17:17 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    I believe it means that a player's score qualified that player for a certain result,
    but for another reason, that player was not qualified, and so the actual >award of prizes occured as though that player was not there.
    Why such a thing would happen, though, I do not know.

    I've heard of that being done at Olympiads when a player had earned a
    norm with 1 round to play and they wanted to encourage the player to
    play in the final round for the benefit of his team (since a player
    who earns a norm at an Olympiad is generally on top of his game and
    therefore more likely to help his team in contention than a less hot
    player) and they didn't want to encourage players to "sit on their
    norms"

    Before that rule this was the kind of situation where team captains
    had fits!

    I've just finished Kotov's old book on Alekhine and he mentions that
    both Alekhine and Keres had played in some Scandanavian championship
    events in the 1930s "hors combat" which I think is what you're talking
    about. For them it was training.

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  • From Quadibloc@21:1/5 to The Horny Goat on Fri Feb 4 00:34:23 2022
    On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 2:24:31 AM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:

    I've just finished Kotov's old book on Alekhine and he mentions that
    both Alekhine and Keres had played in some Scandanavian championship
    events in the 1930s "hors combat" which I think is what you're talking
    about. For them it was training.

    That's interesting. Of course, though, the usual meaning of "hors du combat"
    is so badly wounded that one can no longer fight.

    John Savard

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  • From William Hyde@21:1/5 to Quadibloc on Fri Feb 4 16:19:28 2022
    On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 3:34:24 AM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
    On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 2:24:31 AM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:

    I've just finished Kotov's old book on Alekhine and he mentions that
    both Alekhine and Keres had played in some Scandanavian championship
    events in the 1930s "hors combat" which I think is what you're talking about. For them it was training.
    That's interesting. Of course, though, the usual meaning of "hors du combat" is so badly wounded that one can no longer fight.


    The phrase is "Hors Concours". "Hors" meaning outside, "Concours" meaning competition.

    William Hyde

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  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Mar 25 13:29:10 2022
    On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:17:17 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    I believe it means that a player's score qualified that player for a certain result,
    but for another reason, that player was not qualified, and so the actual >award of prizes occured as though that player was not there.
    Why such a thing would happen, though, I do not know.

    As a member of the Canadian national executive I have long campaigned
    for a policy that in qualification events a player not eligible to
    compete in the higher level event which the winner qualifies for
    should under no circumstances be allowed to play in the qualifying
    event. To me that defeats the whole purpose of the event.

    Some 40+ years ago when I was a junior I was alone at 4-0 I was paired
    against such a person (3.5-0.5 so except for the qualification thing
    it was a proper pairing) - I lost and was so upset by the affair I
    blundered in round 6 and thus failed to qualify for the Canadian
    junior nationals.

    I had a heavy plus score against the player I had >expected< to be
    playing in round 5 so was expecting a long game with a happy result
    (being alone in first with one round to go is definitely 'happy' when
    it's a national qualifier!) but I felt then and still do that I was
    cheated that day.

    Bottom line is that in a qualifying event it is just plain wrong to
    allow persons ineligible to qualify for the next stage to play. The
    whole point of a qualifier is to qualify someone.

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  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Mar 14 11:46:17 2024
    On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:17:17 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    I believe it means that a player's score qualified that player for a certain result,
    but for another reason, that player was not qualified, and so the actual >award of prizes occured as though that player was not there.
    Why such a thing would happen, though, I do not know.

    I do not know either but 40 years ago when I was an up and coming
    junior I was 4-0 after 4 rounds in a provincial junior championship
    and was paired against somebody who was of junior age BUT would NOT be
    eligible to compete at the national level if he won the qualifying
    tournament. I told the TD in no uncertain terms that that was unjust
    (and 40 years later STILL feel that way), I blundered shortly after
    the time control and in the last round was still rattled from the
    experience and lost quickly thus failing to qualify.

    Now that I'm on our national executive I have lobbied HARD on this
    making the point that in a qualifying tournament a player should NOT
    be allowed to play if for whatever reason he/she would be ineligible
    to participate in the event the qualifying tournament was to qualify a
    champion for.

    The whole point of such an event is to qualify a player for the next
    level - not to ingratiate the egos of ineligible players who want to
    play a few rounds.

    Felt strongly on this as a teenager and as an 'old fart' still do.

    But I do think that's the situation the original poster was talking
    about.

    (if you really want credentials then International Arbiter, past
    member National Appeals Committee)

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