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  • Re: How to include resign actions in Ex-Gee and/or Noo-BG game record?

    From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 11 17:57:26 2024
    On 1/11/2024 2:58 AM, MK wrote:
    Having talked about rollouts, PR's, etc. recently,
    I played a few 17-point matches against Ex-Gee
    (at XGR++ level) and in this position It strangely
    offered to resign a single game:

    XGID=-C-CA-------a--------bedc-:2:-1:-1:00:12:0:0:17:10

    GNGbg ID:5wIAAPe+AQQAAA:AgEgAgAAYAAE

    Score is X:0 O:12 17 pt.(s) match.
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X | | O O O |
    | | | O O |
    | | | O O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | | | X X X | +---+
    | | | X X X X | | 4 |
    | | | X X X X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 47 O: 16 X-O: 0-12/17
    Cube: 4, X own cube
    X on roll, cube action

    I (i.e. O) still had a slight chance of winning a
    gammon and the match (bots say about 1%).

    What bot says 1%? XG says it's more like 0.03%.

    Even without a bot you can see that it has to be a lot
    less than 1%. O has to roll doublets twice (at least one
    of which has to be 33 or higher), and X has to roll at
    most 7 pips in two rolls.

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From MK@21:1/5 to Timothy Chow on Fri Jan 12 02:47:17 2024
    On 1/11/2024 3:57 PM, Timothy Chow wrote:

    On 1/11/2024 2:58 AM, MK wrote:

    Having talked about rollouts, PR's, etc. recently,
    I played a few 17-point matches against Ex-Gee
    (at XGR++ level) and in this position It strangely
    offered to resign a single game:

    XGID=-C-CA-------a--------bedc-:2:-1:-1:00:12:0:0:17:10

    GNGbg ID:5wIAAPe+AQQAAA:AgEgAgAAYAAE

    I (i.e. O) still had a slight chance of winning
    a gammon and the match (bots say about 1%).

    What bot says 1%?

    Ex-Gee and Noo-BG.

    XG says it's more like 0.03%.

    Only at some plies.

    Even without a bot you can see that it has to
    be a lot less than 1%. O has to roll doublets
    twice (at least one of which has to be 33 or
    higher), and X has to roll at most 7 pips in
    two rolls.

    I couldn't even begin to guess what percent. I
    just knew that I had a chance and I asked bots
    after the fact.

    As long as I had >0% gammon, you should have
    said that the piece of shit extra-terrestrial
    bot (that, unlike the freeware garbage Noo-BG,
    doesn't even know how to resign properly when
    it should), shouldn't have offered to resign
    a single game.

    Your comment indicates there is a difference
    between 1.00% and 0.03%, which is a terrible
    argument to make. What's going on with you?
    You seem to be falling apart lately... :(

    But don't you and your venerated garbage bots
    expect mercy from me. I will make guacamole
    out of you all and your bots. ;)

    Ex-Gee 2-ply says 0.055%, 3-ply says 0.063%,
    4-ply says 0.090%, XG-Roller+ and XG-Roller++
    both say 0.029%, rollout says 0.033%

    Rounded up to 1 decimal, half say %1

    Noo-BG 0, 2, 3 and 4-ply say 0.0% but 1-ply
    says 0.1%

    Noo-BG's 0.0%'s are rounded down to 1 decimal.

    For Noo-BG, price is right. But 1-1.5 million
    dollars for Ex-Gee's IPR..? Hah haaa! My ass!
    I don't think he will be able to give it away
    for free.

    And you mentally ill gamblegammon players bet
    your money on these garbage bots? Sigh... :(

    MK

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  • From MK@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 15 13:34:19 2024
    On 1/12/2024 2:47 AM, MK wrote:

    What bot says 1%?

    Ex-Gee and Noo-BG.

    I couldn't even begin to guess what percent. I
    just knew that I had a chance and I asked bots
    after the fact.

    As long as I had >0% gammon.....

    Your comment indicates there is a difference
    between 1.00% and 0.03%, which is a terrible
    argument to make.

    Ex-Gee 2-ply says 0.055%, 3-ply says 0.063%,
    4-ply says 0.090%, XG-Roller+ and XG-Roller++
    both say 0.029%, rollout says 0.033%

    Rounded up to 1 decimal, half say %1

    Noo-BG 0, 2, 3 and 4-ply say 0.0% but 1-ply
    says 0.1%

    Noo-BG's 0.0%'s are rounded down to 1 decimal.

    Sometimes I reread recent posts, including my
    own, to refresh my memory on arguments made.

    What a scatterbrain my above post was. Wow!
    My mind and fingers were going in the same
    direction but not in step... :(

    What I was trying to say is that I never try
    to estimate my winning chances in numbers and
    I probably couldn't come within 10% if I did;
    surely not in three decimals. My smallest unit
    greater 0% would be 1%.

    Looking at the bots' various estimates while
    typing, I was seeing 0.1% as 1%. My bad. :(

    But my argument that XG shouldn't have tried
    to resign a single game when I could gammon
    0% is valid regardless.

    And if the the bots claim to be accurate to
    three decimals, then their numbers should be
    consistent at least in simple, last few rolls
    positions and more importantly, they should
    be able to resign correctly.

    MK

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