• Re: ROLLOUT: Wacky backgame cube action

    From ah...Clem@21:1/5 to ah...Clem on Thu Oct 28 10:12:58 2021
    On 10/28/2021 9:45 AM, ah...Clem wrote:
    On 10/25/2021 3:19 PM, ah...Clem wrote:
    XGID=----B-B-B--ac-a--bbcCDb-aB:0:0:-1:00:0:0:3:0:10

    X:Player 2 O:Player 1
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X X O | | O O |
    | X O | | O O |
    | X | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | O | |
    | | O | O |
    | | | X O O |
    | X X | | X O O X |
    | X X X | | X O O X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 119 O: 230 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, cube action



    And as for Jacoby, I would have expected it to be TG without Jacoby, but
    XG doesn't change its mind very much without. Borderline take/pass at
    lower settings and a narrow cube / whopper to pass in rollout. If we
    can believe any of this.

    XGID=----B-B-B--ac-a--bbcCDb-aB:0:0:-1:00:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 2 O:Player 1
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X X O | | O O |
    | X O | | O O |
    | X | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | O | |
    | | O | O |
    | | | X O O |
    | X X | | X O O X |
    | X X X | | X O O X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 119 O: 230 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, cube action

    Analyzed in Rollout
    No double
    Player Winning Chances: 61.70% (G:47.41% B:1.08%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 38.30% (G:6.43% B:0.25%)
    Double/Take
    Player Winning Chances: 60.96% (G:47.25% B:0.96%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 39.04% (G:6.52% B:0.27%)

    Cubeless Equities: No Double=+0.652, Double=+1.267

    Cubeful Equities:
    No double: +0.871 (-0.025)
    Double/Take: +0.896
    Double/Pass: +1.000 (+0.104)

    Best Cube action: Double / Take

    Rollout:
    1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
    Confidence No Double: ± 0.023 (+0.847..+0.894)
    Confidence Double: ± 0.036 (+0.860..+0.932)

    Double Decision confidence: 87.8%
    Take Decision confidence: 100.0%

    Duration: 14 minutes 20 seconds

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ah...Clem@21:1/5 to ah...Clem on Thu Oct 28 09:45:19 2021
    On 10/25/2021 3:19 PM, ah...Clem wrote:

    XGID=----B-B-B--ac-a--bbcCDb-aB:0:0:-1:00:0:0:3:0:10

    X:Player 2 O:Player 1
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X X O | | O O |
    | X O | | O O |
    | X | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | O | |
    | | O | O |
    | | | X O O |
    | X X | | X O O X |
    | X X X | | X O O X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 119 O: 230 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, cube action

    Nobody bit on this one, perhaps because it's really unclear what the
    take action is. With Jacoby, the cube seems fairly obvious, but the
    take decision seems to be confusing to everyone, including the bots;

    XG 3-ply says Pass by .012
    XG 4-ply says Pass by .044
    XGR+ says Pass by .005
    XGR++ says Take by .002

    gnubg analysis says Pass by .114

    And XG 1296 3-ply rollout says Take by .104 and it's barely a cube (.013
    error to hold) See rollout below.


    Yes, this actually came up in a game. My verdict was too many gammons
    to take, and at nearly 50% that is a lot. But the ~40% wins (some of
    which will have the cube at 4) make it a take. If you can believe XG
    rollout.


    XGID=----B-B-B--ac-a--bbcCDb-aB:0:0:-1:00:0:0:3:0:10


    Analyzed in Rollout
    No double
    Player Winning Chances: 62.19% (G:47.46% B:1.21%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 37.81% (G:6.53% B:0.24%)
    Double/Take
    Player Winning Chances: 60.96% (G:47.25% B:0.96%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 39.04% (G:6.52% B:0.27%)

    Cubeless Equities: No Double=+0.663, Double=+1.267

    Cubeful Equities:
    No double: +0.883 (-0.013)
    Double/Take: +0.896
    Double/Pass: +1.000 (+0.104)

    Best Cube action: Double / Take

    Rollout:
    1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
    Confidence No Double: ± 0.023 (+0.860..+0.906)
    Confidence Double: ± 0.036 (+0.860..+0.932)

    Double Decision confidence: 72.4%
    Take Decision confidence: 100.0%

    Duration: 17 minutes 34 seconds

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)