On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 1:13:08 PM UTC-5,
[email protected] wrote:
On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 10:35:15 PM UTC, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 8:59:44 AM UTC-5, Timothy Chow wrote:
XGID=-b----EAD---bC---d-dba--B-:0:0:1:11:0:0:0:0:10
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O | | O O O X |
| X O | | O O X |
| X O | | O |
| O | | O |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | X |
| X | | X |
| X | | X |
| O X | | X O |
| O X X | | X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 156 O: 144 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 11
---
Tim Chow
Both moves accomplish a few things, and to me those things are hard to add up and compare. I would make the four prime. O ends up having more difficult 5s and 6s to play than when you hit.
Bob
I think you misunderstand the problem. I also find such problem statements unclear and I've even started a thread about this formulation for quiz problems.
The actual problem statement is: "X to play 11." However, "Hit or make the 5 pt" is not the problem statement but a way of framing the question or explaining
the topic that this quiz covers.
If there was only one sensible way of making the four prime, your answer would be fine. However, there seem to be lots of plausible aces after 8/7 6/5(2).
If I knew that making the four prime was correct (I don't know whether I would have realised this or not), then my additional ace would be 24/23. It seems
a useful split to me and I don't see that the back checkers have been made vulnerable. How bad is that?
Paul
Yes and yes.
I did not split for the last 1 as that would have given O good 5s (I though making some 5s and 6s hard to play for O was the road to the right play). My play was 8/7(2) 6/5(2). (6/5(3) is unnecessarily semi-killing a checker).
After looking at Paul's variant, I don't think trying to kill good 6's and 5's had anything to do with what makes the better play better. Rather, it's apparently that making the 5 point is especially powerful when it combines with the bar point, so
strong that it beats the hit by a lot. To illustrate, I made some variants.
Bob
Variant 1
-------------------------------------------------------- XGID=-b----E-D---bD---d-dba--B-:0:0:1:31:0:0:0:0:10
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+24-23-22-21-20-19------18-17-16-15-14-13-+
| X O O O | | O X |
| X O O | | O X |
| O | | O X |
| O | | O X |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| X | | |
| X | | X |
| X | | X |
| O X | | X O |
| O X | | X O |
+-1--2--3--4--5--6-------7--8--9-10-11-12-+
Pip count X: 162 O: 144 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 31
1. XG Roller++ 24/23 24/21* eq:-0.241
Player: 45.00% (G:11.15% B:0.60%)
Opponent: 55.00% (G:17.82% B:0.63%)
2. XG Roller++ 8/5 6/5 eq:-0.272 (-0.031)
Player: 44.38% (G:12.35% B:0.54%)
Opponent: 55.62% (G:19.19% B:1.30%)
eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10
Variant 2
---------------------------------------------------- XGID=-b----DBC---bD---d-dba--B-:0:0:1:31:0:0:0:0:10
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+24-23-22-21-20-19------18-17-16-15-14-13-+
| X O O O | | O X |
| X O O | | O X |
| O | | O X |
| O | | O X |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| X | | |
| X | | X |
| O X | | X X O |
| O X | | X X O |
+-1--2--3--4--5--6-------7--8--9-10-11-12-+
Pip count X: 162 O: 144 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 31
1. XG Roller++ 8/5 6/5 eq:+0.184
Player: 55.63% (G:15.80% B:0.94%)
Opponent: 44.37% (G:15.64% B:0.95%)
2. XG Roller++ 24/21* 8/7 eq:+0.086 (-0.097)
Player: 52.76% (G:13.37% B:0.76%)
Opponent: 47.24% (G:13.87% B:0.51%)
eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10
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