• 2000 Mules streaming free on Twitter/X this weekend

    From jack roth@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 8 00:29:18 2023
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to jack roth on Fri Sep 8 09:08:16 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020

    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Fri Sep 8 09:39:53 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/

    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to BillB on Fri Sep 8 10:36:28 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O

    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to convict J6'
    ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BillB@21:1/5 to jack roth on Fri Sep 8 10:16:41 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....

    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0OQ

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BillB@21:1/5 to jack roth on Fri Sep 8 10:53:02 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O
    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to convict J6'
    ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.

    You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to BillB on Fri Sep 8 12:05:25 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O
    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to convict J6'
    ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.
    You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.

    You mean YOU are just one of those buffoons who believes any tripe coming from those agenda filled left wing propaganda sites and totally incapable of using your elderly alzheimers brain to rationally analyze something. Similarly, I've forgotten more
    economics than you'll ever know. You just sit there having no clue whatsoever about how government works, how federal employees work, how stats work, how these charts are manipulated, how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody
    understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some
    idiotic canadian lens.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to jack roth on Fri Sep 8 13:20:32 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 12:05:29 PM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O
    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to convict
    J6'ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.
    You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.
    You mean YOU are just one of those buffoons who believes any tripe coming from those agenda filled left wing propaganda sites and totally incapable of using your elderly alzheimers brain to rationally analyze something. Similarly, I've forgotten more
    economics than you'll ever know. You just sit there having no clue whatsoever about how government works, how federal employees work, how stats work, how these charts are manipulated, how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody
    understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some
    idiotic canadian lens.
    .

    See Bill? You're a lawyer. Help me with some words...

    The best I see for his fool is, "Delusional." Got any better?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to BillB on Fri Sep 8 13:18:12 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O
    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to convict J6'
    ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.
    You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.
    .

    Or when any of us tried to teach him anything..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BillB@21:1/5 to jack roth on Fri Sep 8 14:38:27 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 12:05:29 PM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O
    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to convict
    J6'ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.
    You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.
    You mean YOU are just one of those buffoons who believes any tripe coming from those agenda filled left wing propaganda sites and totally incapable of using your elderly alzheimers brain to rationally analyze something. Similarly, I've forgotten more
    economics than you'll ever know. You just sit there having no clue whatsoever about how government works, how federal employees work, how stats work, how these charts are manipulated, how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody
    understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown >to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some
    idiotic canadian lens.

    lol...you are a buffoon.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BillB@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Fri Sep 8 14:54:43 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 1:20:37 PM UTC-7, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 12:05:29 PM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O
    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to convict
    J6'ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.
    You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.
    You mean YOU are just one of those buffoons who believes any tripe coming from those agenda filled left wing propaganda sites and totally incapable of using your elderly alzheimers brain to rationally analyze something. Similarly, I've forgotten more
    economics than you'll ever know. You just sit there having no clue whatsoever about how government works, how federal employees work, how stats work, how these charts are manipulated, how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody
    understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some
    idiotic canadian lens.
    .

    See Bill? You're a lawyer. Help me with some words...

    The best I see for his fool is, "Delusional." Got any better?

    I don't know, but he's definitely unteachable. I suspect he didn't make very far in school. Like Trump said, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his worshippers would still have their tongue up his ass. Jack is living proof of that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to jack roth on Fri Sep 8 15:50:36 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 1:36:33 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O
    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to convict J6'
    ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.

    A documentary from a known liar, defending a prolific liar.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to jack roth on Fri Sep 8 15:52:22 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be explained by
    you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.

    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Fri Sep 8 18:03:41 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:50:41 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 1:36:33 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O
    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to convict J6'
    ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.
    A documentary from a known liar, defending a prolific liar.

    Claims the moron who literally voted for a president who has lied his entire career about literally everything.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to BillB on Fri Sep 8 18:04:42 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 2:54:47 PM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 1:20:37 PM UTC-7, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 12:05:29 PM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to
    get convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O
    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to
    convict J6'ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.
    You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.
    You mean YOU are just one of those buffoons who believes any tripe coming from those agenda filled left wing propaganda sites and totally incapable of using your elderly alzheimers brain to rationally analyze something. Similarly, I've forgotten
    more economics than you'll ever know. You just sit there having no clue whatsoever about how government works, how federal employees work, how stats work, how these charts are manipulated, how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because
    nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world
    through some idiotic canadian lens.
    .

    See Bill? You're a lawyer. Help me with some words...

    The best I see for his fool is, "Delusional." Got any better?
    I don't know, but he's definitely unteachable. I suspect he didn't make very far in school. Like Trump said, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his worshippers would still have their tongue up his ass. Jack is living proof of that.

    Why the hell would I want to "learn" anything from some libtard canadian who doesn't know shit form shinola. Go get a refund from your law school.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Fri Sep 8 18:07:56 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be explained
    by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?

    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a little math
    myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to BillB on Sat Sep 9 06:37:00 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 2:54:47 PM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 1:20:37 PM UTC-7, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 12:05:29 PM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to
    get convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O
    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to
    convict J6'ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.
    You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.
    You mean YOU are just one of those buffoons who believes any tripe coming from those agenda filled left wing propaganda sites and totally incapable of using your elderly alzheimers brain to rationally analyze something. Similarly, I've forgotten
    more economics than you'll ever know. You just sit there having no clue whatsoever about how government works, how federal employees work, how stats work, how these charts are manipulated, how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because
    nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world
    through some idiotic canadian lens.
    .

    See Bill? You're a lawyer. Help me with some words...

    The best I see for his fool is, "Delusional." Got any better?
    I don't know, but he's definitely unteachable. I suspect he didn't make very far in school. Like Trump said, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his worshippers would still have their tongue up his ass. Jack is living proof of that.
    .

    He's like that Ramaswamy guy that's been nowhere, done nothing, and is running for president. When questioned, he dodges and runs his mouth off a mile a minute with other bullshit. He's learned that from watching trump and the other dodges. Says things
    opposite to what he put in his book. The questioner can't get a word in edgewise. That's Jack rOff. The more he's cornered, the longer the non-reply and more glamorous he paints himself.

    Perhaps the best word is mental case...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to jack roth on Sat Sep 9 06:42:48 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 6:08:00 PM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be
    explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    ,

    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    .

    *** Apparently not. See? Just another dodge and run... ***
    .
    .

    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a little math
    myself....

    See Tim? He knows 'little math' and some big words that are math like...
    .
    .


    and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Sat Sep 9 12:06:55 2023
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:37:05 AM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 2:54:47 PM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 1:20:37 PM UTC-7, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 12:05:29 PM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to
    get convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O
    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to
    convict J6'ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.
    You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.
    You mean YOU are just one of those buffoons who believes any tripe coming from those agenda filled left wing propaganda sites and totally incapable of using your elderly alzheimers brain to rationally analyze something. Similarly, I've forgotten
    more economics than you'll ever know. You just sit there having no clue whatsoever about how government works, how federal employees work, how stats work, how these charts are manipulated, how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because
    nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world
    through some idiotic canadian lens.
    .

    See Bill? You're a lawyer. Help me with some words...

    The best I see for his fool is, "Delusional." Got any better?
    I don't know, but he's definitely unteachable. I suspect he didn't make very far in school. Like Trump said, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his worshippers would still have their tongue up his ass. Jack is living proof of that.
    .

    He's like that Ramaswamy guy that's been nowhere, done nothing, and is running for president. When questioned, he dodges and runs his mouth off a mile a minute with other bullshit. He's learned that from watching trump and the other dodges. Says things
    opposite to what he put in his book. The questioner can't get a word in edgewise. That's Jack rOff. The more he's cornered, the longer the non-reply and more glamorous he paints himself.

    Perhaps the best word is mental case...

    My favourite is Santos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to jack roth on Sat Sep 9 12:09:43 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be
    explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a little math
    myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.

    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Sat Sep 9 14:19:56 2023
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be
    explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a little math
    myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?

    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to jack roth on Sun Sep 10 13:09:46 2023
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be
    explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a little math
    myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.

    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Sun Sep 10 16:57:39 2023
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be
    explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a little
    math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.

    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I said. My
    memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.

    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute...
    So, I reject your premise.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to jack roth on Mon Sep 11 08:49:58 2023
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be
    explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a little
    math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I said. My
    memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute...So,
    I reject your premise.

    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichD@21:1/5 to jack roth on Mon Sep 11 09:48:19 2023
    On September 8, jack roth wrote:
    Claims the moron who literally voted for a president who has lied his entire career
    about literally everything.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/beau-biden-die-in-iraq/

    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichD@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Mon Sep 11 09:56:35 2023
    On September 8, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?

    It's an adage that probability is the area where a professional mathematician is most likely to go wrong.

    When the Monte Hall problem was first published, the writer received
    a thousand letters of rebuke, including from many mathematicians.

    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to RichD on Mon Sep 11 16:42:53 2023
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 12:56:40 PM UTC-4, RichD wrote:
    On September 8, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    It's an adage that probability is the area where a professional mathematician
    is most likely to go wrong.

    When the Monte Hall problem was first published, the writer received
    a thousand letters of rebuke, including from many mathematicians.

    --
    Rich

    And it was a homework assignment in my Advanced Probability class in 1980. The key is the assumptions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Popinjay@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Mon Sep 11 16:56:31 2023
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:

    There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.


    There are absolutes in morality.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Mon Sep 11 18:49:56 2023
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to
    be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I said. My
    memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute...
    So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....but
    they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to jack roth on Tue Sep 12 09:07:40 2023
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>> <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be
    explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a little
    math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I said. My
    memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute...
    So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....
    but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....

    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Tue Sep 12 09:11:53 2023
    On 9/11/2023 6:42 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 12:56:40 PM UTC-4, RichD wrote:
    On September 8, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    It's an adage that probability is the area where a professional mathematician
    is most likely to go wrong.

    When the Monte Hall problem was first published, the writer received
    a thousand letters of rebuke, including from many mathematicians.

    --
    Rich

    And it was a homework assignment in my Advanced Probability class in 1980. The key is the assumptions.

    So, there are "assumptions" in "understands" ... and "probability"?

    More ...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Tue Sep 12 09:12:53 2023
    On 9/8/2023 3:18 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O
    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to convict J6'
    ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself. >> You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.
    .

    Or when any of us tried to teach him anything..

    Is there anything you do not understand, Jerry?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to da pickle on Tue Sep 12 10:07:15 2023
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 7:08:16 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be
    explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a little
    math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I said.
    My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute...
    So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....
    but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Like I said to Tim already....math has absolutes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Tue Sep 12 09:19:23 2023
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 7:13:28 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/8/2023 3:18 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote: >>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O
    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to convict
    J6'ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.
    You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.
    .

    Or when any of us tried to teach him anything..
    Is there anything you do not understand, Jerry?
    .

    Yea. Why can't you answer any questions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to da pickle on Tue Sep 12 10:33:41 2023
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:12:26 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 6:42 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 12:56:40 PM UTC-4, RichD wrote:
    On September 8, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    It's an adage that probability is the area where a professional mathematician
    is most likely to go wrong.

    When the Monte Hall problem was first published, the writer received
    a thousand letters of rebuke, including from many mathematicians.

    --
    Rich

    And it was a homework assignment in my Advanced Probability class in 1980. The key is the assumptions.
    So, there are "assumptions" in "understands" ... and "probability"?

    More ...

    Absolutely. One of the first comes up in defining the Sample Space.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to da pickle on Tue Sep 12 10:32:58 2023
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be
    explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a little
    math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I said.
    My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute...
    So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....
    but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to jack roth on Tue Sep 12 10:34:33 2023
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 9:50:03 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to
    be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I said.
    My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute...
    So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.
    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....but
    they are in there.

    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.
    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....

    No, because I don't recall asking you to teach it, which was your claim.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Tue Sep 12 10:50:35 2023
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:34:37 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 9:50:03 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only
    to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I said.
    My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute.
    ..So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.
    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....
    but they are in there.

    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.
    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    No, because I don't recall asking you to teach it, which was your claim.

    Your faulty memory doesn't show I'm inaccurate. In fact, can you supply us with the reason then why I know so much about what you do, the class you offer, and how you are the one who set schedule? How else would I know these things?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Tue Sep 12 13:41:16 2023
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be
    explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a little
    math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I said.
    My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute...
    So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....
    but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.

    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all
    situations without more "words"?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Tue Sep 12 13:45:01 2023
    On 9/12/2023 12:33 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:12:26 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 6:42 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 12:56:40 PM UTC-4, RichD wrote:
    On September 8, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    It's an adage that probability is the area where a professional mathematician
    is most likely to go wrong.

    When the Monte Hall problem was first published, the writer received
    a thousand letters of rebuke, including from many mathematicians.

    --
    Rich

    And it was a homework assignment in my Advanced Probability class in 1980. The key is the assumptions.
    So, there are "assumptions" in "understands" ... and "probability"?

    More ...

    Absolutely. One of the first comes up in defining the Sample Space.

    There is that word "absolutely" again ... can we assume that you are "absolutely" correct in all your statements? Absolutely?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Tue Sep 12 13:49:26 2023
    On 9/12/2023 11:19 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 7:13:28 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/8/2023 3:18 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote: >>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>>> Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/
    That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O
    Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to convict
    J6'ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.
    You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.
    .

    Or when any of us tried to teach him anything..
    Is there anything you do not understand, Jerry?
    .

    Yea. Why can't you answer any questions.

    Why can you not form an interesting comment?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to jack roth on Tue Sep 12 13:47:29 2023
    On 9/12/2023 12:50 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:34:37 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 9:50:03 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be
    explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a little
    math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I said.
    My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute...
    So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.
    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....
    but they are in there.

    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.
    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    No, because I don't recall asking you to teach it, which was your claim.

    Your faulty memory doesn't show I'm inaccurate. In fact, can you supply us with the reason then why I know so much about what you do, the class you offer, and how you are the one who set schedule? How else would I know these things?

    He absolutely knows that his failure to recall is the only truth
    involved ... absolutely.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Tue Sep 12 12:02:54 2023
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 11:19 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 7:13:28 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/8/2023 3:18 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote: >>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote: >>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever. >>>>>>>>
    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/ >>>>>>> That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O >>>>> Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to convict
    J6'ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.
    You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.
    .

    Or when any of us tried to teach him anything..
    Is there anything you do not understand, Jerry?
    .

    Yea. Why can't you answer any questions?
    .
    Why can you not form an interesting comment?
    .
    *** Still, (embarrassingly for you, again) *** NO ANSWER NOTED ****

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to jack roth on Tue Sep 12 18:34:12 2023
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 1:50:40 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:34:37 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 9:50:03 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps
    only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I
    said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an
    absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.
    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....
    but they are in there.

    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.
    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    No, because I don't recall asking you to teach it, which was your claim.
    Your faulty memory doesn't show I'm inaccurate. In fact, can you supply us with the reason then why I know so much about what you do, the class you offer, and how you are the one who set schedule? How else would I know these things?

    Because I have written about it many times. The question that I have is why you believe that I asked you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to da pickle on Tue Sep 12 18:36:15 2023
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:45:36 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:33 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:12:26 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 6:42 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 12:56:40 PM UTC-4, RichD wrote:
    On September 8, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    It's an adage that probability is the area where a professional mathematician
    is most likely to go wrong.

    When the Monte Hall problem was first published, the writer received >>>> a thousand letters of rebuke, including from many mathematicians.

    --
    Rich

    And it was a homework assignment in my Advanced Probability class in 1980. The key is the assumptions.
    So, there are "assumptions" in "understands" ... and "probability"?

    More ...

    Absolutely. One of the first comes up in defining the Sample Space.
    There is that word "absolutely" again ... can we assume that you are "absolutely" correct in all your statements? Absolutely?

    Nope

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Tue Sep 12 19:13:16 2023
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 6:34:16 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 1:50:40 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:34:37 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 9:50:03 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps
    only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know
    a little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I
    said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an
    absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.
    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts..
    ..but they are in there.

    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.
    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    No, because I don't recall asking you to teach it, which was your claim.
    Your faulty memory doesn't show I'm inaccurate. In fact, can you supply us with the reason then why I know so much about what you do, the class you offer, and how you are the one who set schedule? How else would I know these things?
    Because I have written about it many times. The question that I have is why you believe that I asked you.

    Because after we chatted about vector calculus once, you expressed to me the trouble you were having setting the schedule for a Calc 3 course and inquired of my interest in it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to da pickle on Tue Sep 12 18:35:44 2023
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be
    explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I said.
    My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute.
    ..So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....
    but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all
    situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to jack roth on Wed Sep 13 10:26:57 2023
    On 9/12/2023 9:13 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 6:34:16 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 1:50:40 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:34:37 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 9:50:03 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be
    explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I said.
    My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute.
    ..So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.
    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....
    but they are in there.

    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.
    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    No, because I don't recall asking you to teach it, which was your claim. >>> Your faulty memory doesn't show I'm inaccurate. In fact, can you supply us with the reason then why I know so much about what you do, the class you offer, and how you are the one who set schedule? How else would I know these things?
    Because I have written about it many times. The question that I have is why you believe that I asked you.

    Because after we chatted about vector calculus once, you expressed to me the trouble you were having setting the schedule for a Calc 3 course and inquired of my interest in it.

    His "memory" is failing ... absolutely.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Wed Sep 13 10:28:27 2023
    On 9/12/2023 8:36 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:45:36 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:33 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:12:26 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/11/2023 6:42 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 12:56:40 PM UTC-4, RichD wrote:
    On September 8, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    It's an adage that probability is the area where a professional mathematician
    is most likely to go wrong.

    When the Monte Hall problem was first published, the writer received >>>>>> a thousand letters of rebuke, including from many mathematicians.

    --
    Rich

    And it was a homework assignment in my Advanced Probability class in 1980. The key is the assumptions.
    So, there are "assumptions" in "understands" ... and "probability"?

    More ...

    Absolutely. One of the first comes up in defining the Sample Space.
    There is that word "absolutely" again ... can we assume that you are
    "absolutely" correct in all your statements? Absolutely?

    Nope

    Finally ... we agree ... maybe now you can give a "complete" simple
    answer to a simple question that is "absolutely" correct.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Wed Sep 13 10:29:12 2023
    On 9/12/2023 2:02 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 11:19 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 7:13:28 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/8/2023 3:18 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote: >>>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/ >>>>>>>>> That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O >>>>>>> Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to convict
    J6'ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.
    You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.
    .

    Or when any of us tried to teach him anything..
    Is there anything you do not understand, Jerry?
    .

    Yea. Why can't you answer any questions?
    .
    Why can you not form an interesting comment?
    .
    *** Still, (embarrassingly for you, again) *** NO ANSWER NOTED ****

    No interesting comment noted.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Wed Sep 13 10:25:47 2023
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to be
    explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I said.
    My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute.
    ..So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....
    but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all
    situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?

    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you
    say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you
    are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual
    definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering
    "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Wed Sep 13 11:21:43 2023
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 8:29:29 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 2:02 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 11:19 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 7:13:28 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/8/2023 3:18 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote: >>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:36:33 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:16:46 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote: >>>>>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:39:58 AM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:21 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:29:23 AM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    Learn exactly how they cheated Trump in 2020
    Except for the fact that it contained no evidence whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.factcheck.org/2022/06/evidence-gaps-in-2000-mules/ >>>>>>>>> That article is completely full of shit. The same Geolocation evidence which it claims is false for 2000mules is the EXACT SAME geolocation evidence the FBI used to arrest 1000 J6 protestors. Seems like it's accurate enough for the FBI to get
    convictions....
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules-idUSL2N2XJ0O >>>>>>> Ok, you can take all your questioning any any agenda filled "fact" checking and shove it up your ass. All those lame attempts to cast doubt on the accuacy and metholdogy are just that....lame...and bullshit. If they are accurate enough to
    convict J6'ers...they are accurate enough to put in a documentary. So, go fuck yourself.
    You are obviously just one of those people who will just believe whatever they want, no matter how absurd, and dismiss any irrefutable evidence to the contrary is regarded as "fake". I saw that when I tried to teach you some basic economics.
    .

    Or when any of us tried to teach him anything..
    Is there anything you do not understand, Jerry?
    .

    Yea. Why can't you answer any questions?
    .
    Why can you not form an interesting comment?
    .
    *** Still, (embarrassingly for you, again) *** NO ANSWER NOTED ****
    .
    No interesting comment noted.
    .

    See? Still no answer...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Wed Sep 13 11:20:28 2023
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 8:26:04 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to
    be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I
    said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an
    absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts..
    ..but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one. >>>> Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all
    situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    .

    I was asking questions that you do not answer.

    What a coincidence. You need only go up ten posts to find YOU not answering MY question,,,
    _______
    " .> > Yea. Why can't you answer any questions?
    "
    " *** Still, (embarrassingly for you, again) *** NO ANSWER NOTED ****
    _______
    .
    .
    .

    Very BillB like ...

    Very YOU like...

    (Run away again....)
    .
    .
    .





    you
    say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you
    are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Wed Sep 13 15:21:20 2023
    On 9/13/2023 1:21 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 8:29:29 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:

    No interesting comment noted.
    .

    See? Still no answer...

    Still nothing

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 13 15:21:35 2023
    On 9/13/2023 1:20 PM, VegasJerry wrote:

    Absolutely nothing

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to da pickle on Wed Sep 13 18:35:19 2023
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to
    be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I
    said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an
    absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts..
    ..but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one. >>>> Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all
    situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you
    say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you
    are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Thu Sep 14 06:46:27 2023
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 1:21:35 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 1:21 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 8:29:29 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:

    No interesting comment noted.
    .

    See? Still no answer...
    .

    Still nothing

    And that's all we usually get from you... nothing..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Thu Sep 14 09:54:38 2023
    On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only to
    be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I
    said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an
    absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small amounts..
    ..but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one. >>>>>> Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a >>>> simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all
    situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you
    say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you
    are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual
    definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering
    "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.

    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to da pickle on Thu Sep 14 10:00:23 2023
    On 9/13/2023 10:26 AM, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 9:13 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 6:34:16 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 1:50:40 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:34:37 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 9:50:03 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk >>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth >>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim >>>>>>>>>> Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim >>>>>>>>>>>> Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly >>>>>>>>>>>>> because nobody understands math or probability and
    statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing >>>>>>>>>>>>> what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind
    boggling perhaps only to be explained by you being some >>>>>>>>>>>>> moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic >>>>>>>>>>>>> canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands >>>>>>>>>>>>> math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of >>>>>>>>>>>> my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was >>>>>>>>>>>> directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You >>>>>>>>>>>> tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a >>>>>>>>>>>> little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> probably the only one of us two who has actually used
    probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in >>>>>>>>>>> the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill >>>>>>>>>> a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage >>>>>>>>>> at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based >>>>>>>>>> and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is >>>>>>>>>>> once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have >>>>>>>>>>> the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level
    concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping >>>>>>>>>> to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even
    sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables.
    Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had >>>>>>>>>> a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' >>>>>>>>> in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a
    professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept
    not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus
    3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I
    said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise
    statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily >>>>>>>>> agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. >>>>>>>> An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case,
    the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the >>>>>>>> meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute...So, I >>>>>>>> reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics,
    and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.
    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic.
    For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress,
    you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with
    various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....but they
    are in there.

    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had >>>>>>> vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which
    went much deeper, including into tensors.
    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    No, because I don't recall asking you to teach it, which was your
    claim.
    Your faulty memory doesn't show I'm inaccurate. In fact, can you
    supply us with the reason then why I know so much about what you do,
    the class you offer, and how you are the one who set schedule? How
    else would I know these things?
    Because I have written about it many times. The question that I have
    is why you believe that I asked you.

    Because after we chatted about vector calculus once, you expressed to
    me the trouble you were having setting the schedule for a Calc 3
    course  and inquired of my interest in it.

    His "memory" is failing ... absolutely.

    Now he adopts Jerry's standard dodge and run.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Thu Sep 14 10:01:34 2023
    On 9/14/2023 8:46 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 1:21:35 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 1:21 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 8:29:29 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:

    No interesting comment noted.
    .

    See? Still no answer...
    .

    Still nothing

    And that's all we usually get from you... nothing..

    Wash and rinse and still nothing

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to da pickle on Thu Sep 14 08:14:45 2023
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only
    to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I
    said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an
    absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small
    amounts....but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one. >>>>>> Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a >>>> simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all
    situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you
    say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you
    are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual
    definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering
    "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Thu Sep 14 10:18:35 2023
    On 9/14/2023 10:14 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>> On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only
    to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I
    said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an
    absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small
    amounts....but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one. >>>>>>>> Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a >>>>>> simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all
    situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you >>>> say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you >>>> are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual
    definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering
    "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal

    Ah, you finally see difficulty ... thanks for finally fessing up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to da pickle on Thu Sep 14 10:10:18 2023
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 11:18:53 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/14/2023 10:14 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only
    to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I
    said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an
    absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small
    amounts....but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all >>>>>> situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you >>>> say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you >>>> are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual
    definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering >>>> "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal
    Ah, you finally see difficulty ... thanks for finally fessing up.

    I told you that Russel and Whitehead took 37 pages to prove that 1+1=2. If you consider that easy, then I would be interested what you consider hard. Especially since, if I recall correctly, it was you who insisted that the player could have an advantage
    in the 'Say Red' game, despite at least 3 different proofs that it is not possible.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Thu Sep 14 12:20:59 2023
    On 9/14/2023 12:10 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 11:18:53 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/14/2023 10:14 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>> On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only
    to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I
    said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an
    absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small
    amounts....but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a >>>>>>>> simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all >>>>>>>> situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you >>>>>> say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you >>>>>> are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual
    definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering >>>>>> "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal
    Ah, you finally see difficulty ... thanks for finally fessing up.

    I told you that Russel and Whitehead took 37 pages to prove that 1+1=2. If you consider that easy, then I would be interested what you consider hard. Especially since, if I recall correctly, it was you who insisted that the player could have an
    advantage in the 'Say Red' game, despite at least 3 different proofs that it is not possible.

    You left tracks ... and your "recall" is also neither correct nor possible.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichD@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Thu Sep 14 11:29:52 2023
    On September 11, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    It's an adage that probability is the area where a professional mathematician
    is most likely to go wrong.
    When the Monte Hall problem was first published, the writer received
    a thousand letters of rebuke, including from many mathematicians.

    And it was a homework assignment in my Advanced Probability class in 1980.

    You play a match, consisting of N coin tosses. You've been suckered,
    because it's loaded, and your chance of winning, on each toss, is p < .5

    To win the match, you must win a majority of tosses. You lose on a tie.
    Even money payoff.

    You can choose N. It must be even. What number maximizes your winning chance, as a function of p? (N = 0 is disallowed)

    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Fri Sep 15 06:30:59 2023
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:01:51 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/14/2023 8:46 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 1:21:35 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 1:21 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 8:29:29 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>
    No interesting comment noted.
    .

    See? Still no answer...
    .

    Still nothing

    And that's all we usually get from you... nothing..
    .

    Wash and rinse and still nothing

    See?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Fri Sep 15 06:32:33 2023
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:18:53 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/14/2023 10:14 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only
    to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I
    said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an
    absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small
    amounts....but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all >>>>>> situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you >>>> say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you >>>> are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual
    definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering >>>> "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal
    .
    Ah, you finally see difficulty ... thanks for finally fessing up.

    See again?

    *** No Answer ***

    Just dodge.

    //NEXT//

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Fri Sep 15 09:54:44 2023
    On 9/15/2023 8:32 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:18:53 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/14/2023 10:14 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>> On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps only
    to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a
    little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I
    said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an
    absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small
    amounts....but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a >>>>>>>> simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all >>>>>>>> situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you >>>>>> say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you >>>>>> are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual
    definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering >>>>>> "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal
    .
    Ah, you finally see difficulty ... thanks for finally fessing up.

    See again?

    *** No Answer ***

    Just dodge.

    //NEXT//

    I am not surprised that you did not "get it", Jerry.

    Tim obviously did.

    Just like the Say Red example ... words are everything.

    He only talks about improving probability of winning ... not ever
    mentioning guaranteed probability of not losing. Words are his tools of
    trade and seeming ... magical. You should actually listen to him, he is clever.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Fri Sep 15 09:45:30 2023
    On 9/15/2023 8:30 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:01:51 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/14/2023 8:46 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 1:21:35 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/13/2023 1:21 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 8:29:29 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>>
    No interesting comment noted.
    .

    See? Still no answer...
    .

    Still nothing

    And that's all we usually get from you... nothing..
    .

    Wash and rinse and still nothing

    See?

    Your glasses are fogged.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to da pickle on Fri Sep 15 10:16:43 2023
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 10:54:59 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/15/2023 8:32 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:18:53 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/14/2023 10:14 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps
    only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know
    a little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like
    I said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an
    absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small
    amounts....but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all >>>>>>>> situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you
    say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you
    are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual >>>>>> definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering >>>>>> "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal
    .
    Ah, you finally see difficulty ... thanks for finally fessing up.

    See again?

    *** No Answer ***

    Just dodge.

    //NEXT//
    I am not surprised that you did not "get it", Jerry.

    Tim obviously did.

    Just like the Say Red example ... words are everything.

    He only talks about improving probability of winning ... not ever
    mentioning guaranteed probability of not losing. Words are his tools of trade and seeming ... magical. You should actually listen to him, he is clever.

    It is not possible to gain an advantage in the 'Say Red' game that we discussed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to RichD on Fri Sep 15 10:15:58 2023
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 2:29:56 PM UTC-4, RichD wrote:
    On September 11, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    It's an adage that probability is the area where a professional mathematician
    is most likely to go wrong.
    When the Monte Hall problem was first published, the writer received
    a thousand letters of rebuke, including from many mathematicians.

    And it was a homework assignment in my Advanced Probability class in 1980.
    You play a match, consisting of N coin tosses. You've been suckered,
    because it's loaded, and your chance of winning, on each toss, is p < .5

    To win the match, you must win a majority of tosses. You lose on a tie.
    Even money payoff.

    You can choose N. It must be even. What number maximizes your winning chance, as a function of p? (N = 0 is disallowed)

    --
    Rich

    So, you don't get to choose heads or tails?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Fri Sep 15 13:59:37 2023
    On 9/15/2023 12:16 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 10:54:59 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/15/2023 8:32 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:18:53 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/14/2023 10:14 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps
    only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know
    a little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like
    I said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an
    absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small
    amounts....but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all >>>>>>>>>> situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you >>>>>>>> say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you >>>>>>>> are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual >>>>>>>> definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering >>>>>>>> "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal
    .
    Ah, you finally see difficulty ... thanks for finally fessing up.

    See again?

    *** No Answer ***

    Just dodge.

    //NEXT//
    I am not surprised that you did not "get it", Jerry.

    Tim obviously did.

    Just like the Say Red example ... words are everything.

    He only talks about improving probability of winning ... not ever
    mentioning guaranteed probability of not losing. Words are his tools of
    trade and seeming ... magical. You should actually listen to him, he is
    clever.

    It is not possible to gain an advantage in the 'Say Red' game that we discussed.

    I can gain an advantage in the "Say Red" game. I will never lose on as
    many games as you want to play. That is all to my "advantage".

    Do you have money?

    [Don't bite at all, Tim ... just skip it. Walk away. Don't respond.]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Fri Sep 15 14:04:20 2023
    On 9/15/2023 8:30 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:00:40 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 10:26 AM, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 9:13 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 6:34:16 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>> On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 1:50:40 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>> On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:34:37 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 9:50:03 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim >>>>>>>>>>>> Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because nobody understands math or probability and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boggling perhaps only to be explained by you being some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably the only one of us two who has actually used >>>>>>>>>>>>>> probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill >>>>>>>>>>>> a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage >>>>>>>>>>>> at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based >>>>>>>>>>>> and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is >>>>>>>>>>>>> once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have >>>>>>>>>>>>> the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level >>>>>>>>>>>>> concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping >>>>>>>>>>>> to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even >>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. >>>>>>>>>>>> Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had >>>>>>>>>>>> a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' >>>>>>>>>>> in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a
    professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept >>>>>>>>>> not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus >>>>>>>>>> 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I >>>>>>>>>> said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise >>>>>>>>>>> statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily >>>>>>>>>>> agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. >>>>>>>>>> An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, >>>>>>>>>> the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the >>>>>>>>>> meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute...So, I >>>>>>>>>> reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, >>>>>>>>> and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.
    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. >>>>>>>> For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, >>>>>>>> you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with >>>>>>>> various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....but they >>>>>>>> are in there.

    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had >>>>>>>>> vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which >>>>>>>>> went much deeper, including into tensors.
    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    No, because I don't recall asking you to teach it, which was your >>>>>>> claim.
    Your faulty memory doesn't show I'm inaccurate. In fact, can you
    supply us with the reason then why I know so much about what you do, >>>>>> the class you offer, and how you are the one who set schedule? How >>>>>> else would I know these things?
    Because I have written about it many times. The question that I have >>>>> is why you believe that I asked you.

    Because after we chatted about vector calculus once, you expressed to
    me the trouble you were having setting the schedule for a Calc 3
    course and inquired of my interest in it.

    His "memory" is failing ... absolutely.
    .

    Now he adopts Jerry's standard dodge and run.

    Says the guy that doesn't answer and always dodges...

    LOL

    One more time, Jerry.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Fri Sep 15 12:34:07 2023
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 7:45:47 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/15/2023 8:30 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:01:51 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/14/2023 8:46 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 1:21:35 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/13/2023 1:21 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 8:29:29 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:

    No interesting comment noted.
    .

    See? Still no answer...
    .

    Still nothing

    And that's all we usually get from you... nothing..
    .

    Wash and rinse and still nothing

    See?
    Your glasses are fogged.
    .

    See? Still no answer...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Fri Sep 15 12:35:24 2023
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 7:54:59 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/15/2023 8:32 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:18:53 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/14/2023 10:14 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps
    only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know
    a little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like
    I said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as an
    absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small
    amounts....but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all >>>>>>>> situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you
    say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you
    are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual >>>>>> definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering >>>>>> "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal
    .
    Ah, you finally see difficulty ... thanks for finally fessing up.

    See again?

    *** No Answer ***

    Just dodge.

    //NEXT//
    .

    I am not surprised that ...
    .

    See again?

    *** No Answer ***
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .



    you did not "get it", Jerry.

    Tim obviously did.

    Just like the Say Red example ... words are everything.

    He only talks about improving probability of winning ... not ever
    mentioning guaranteed probability of not losing. Words are his tools of trade and seeming ... magical. You should actually listen to him, he is clever.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Fri Sep 15 12:37:50 2023
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 12:04:36 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/15/2023 8:30 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:00:40 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 10:26 AM, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 9:13 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 6:34:16 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 1:50:40 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote: >>>>>> On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:34:37 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 9:50:03 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim >>>>>>>>>>>> Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth
    wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because nobody understands math or probability and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boggling perhaps only to be explained by you being some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably the only one of us two who has actually used >>>>>>>>>>>>>> probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill >>>>>>>>>>>> a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage >>>>>>>>>>>> at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based >>>>>>>>>>>> and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is >>>>>>>>>>>>> once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have >>>>>>>>>>>>> the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level >>>>>>>>>>>>> concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping >>>>>>>>>>>> to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even >>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. >>>>>>>>>>>> Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had >>>>>>>>>>>> a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' >>>>>>>>>>> in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a >>>>>>>>>> professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept >>>>>>>>>> not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus >>>>>>>>>> 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...like I >>>>>>>>>> said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise >>>>>>>>>>> statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily >>>>>>>>>>> agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. >>>>>>>>>> An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, >>>>>>>>>> the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the >>>>>>>>>> meaning of what I said by referring to it as an absolute...So, I >>>>>>>>>> reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, >>>>>>>>> and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.
    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. >>>>>>>> For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, >>>>>>>> you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with >>>>>>>> various pollutants and particulates in small amounts....but they >>>>>>>> are in there.

    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had >>>>>>>>> vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which >>>>>>>>> went much deeper, including into tensors.
    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    No, because I don't recall asking you to teach it, which was your >>>>>>> claim.
    Your faulty memory doesn't show I'm inaccurate. In fact, can you >>>>>> supply us with the reason then why I know so much about what you do, >>>>>> the class you offer, and how you are the one who set schedule? How >>>>>> else would I know these things?
    Because I have written about it many times. The question that I have >>>>> is why you believe that I asked you.

    Because after we chatted about vector calculus once, you expressed to >>>> me the trouble you were having setting the schedule for a Calc 3
    course and inquired of my interest in it.

    His "memory" is failing ... absolutely.
    .

    Now he adopts Jerry's standard dodge and run.

    Says the guy that doesn't answer and always dodges...

    LOL
    .

    One more time, Jerry.

    Says the guy that doesn't answer and always dodges...

    LOL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to da pickle on Sat Sep 16 08:59:46 2023
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 2:59:53 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/15/2023 12:16 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 10:54:59 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/15/2023 8:32 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:18:53 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/14/2023 10:14 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps
    only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I
    know a little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...
    like I said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as
    an absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small
    amounts....but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all >>>>>>>>>> situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you
    say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you
    are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual >>>>>>>> definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering >>>>>>>> "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal
    .
    Ah, you finally see difficulty ... thanks for finally fessing up.

    See again?

    *** No Answer ***

    Just dodge.

    //NEXT//
    I am not surprised that you did not "get it", Jerry.

    Tim obviously did.

    Just like the Say Red example ... words are everything.

    He only talks about improving probability of winning ... not ever
    mentioning guaranteed probability of not losing. Words are his tools of >> trade and seeming ... magical. You should actually listen to him, he is >> clever.

    It is not possible to gain an advantage in the 'Say Red' game that we discussed.
    I can gain an advantage in the "Say Red" game. I will never lose on as
    many games as you want to play. That is all to my "advantage".

    Do you have money?

    [Don't bite at all, Tim ... just skip it. Walk away. Don't respond.]

    No, you can't. What you can do is possibly win for some time, just like with coin tosses.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Sat Sep 16 09:04:42 2023
    On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 8:59:50 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 2:59:53 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/15/2023 12:16 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 10:54:59 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/15/2023 8:32 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:18:53 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/14/2023 10:14 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling
    perhaps only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I
    know a little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...
    like I said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as
    an absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in
    small amounts....but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all
    situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you
    say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you
    are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual >>>>>>>> definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering
    "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer. >>>>>>>>
    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal
    .
    Ah, you finally see difficulty ... thanks for finally fessing up.

    See again?

    *** No Answer ***

    Just dodge.

    //NEXT//
    I am not surprised that you did not "get it", Jerry.

    Tim obviously did.

    Just like the Say Red example ... words are everything.

    He only talks about improving probability of winning ... not ever
    mentioning guaranteed probability of not losing. Words are his tools of >> trade and seeming ... magical. You should actually listen to him, he is >> clever.

    It is not possible to gain an advantage in the 'Say Red' game that we discussed.
    I can gain an advantage in the "Say Red" game. I will never lose on as many games as you want to play. That is all to my "advantage".

    Do you have money?

    [Don't bite at all, Tim ... just skip it. Walk away. Don't respond.]
    No, you can't. What you can do is possibly win for some time, just like with coin tosses.

    I can win coin tosses 100% of the time. Not like you said it needs to be a fair coin. Details, Tim. That was sloppy work.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Sat Sep 16 11:10:53 2023
    On 9/16/2023 10:59 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 2:59:53 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/15/2023 12:16 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 10:54:59 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/15/2023 8:32 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:18:53 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 9/14/2023 10:14 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps
    only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I
    know a little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...
    like I said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as
    an absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small
    amounts....but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate....
    A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes".

    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all >>>>>>>>>>>> situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you
    say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you
    are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual >>>>>>>>>> definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering >>>>>>>>>> "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer.

    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal
    .
    Ah, you finally see difficulty ... thanks for finally fessing up.

    See again?

    *** No Answer ***

    Just dodge.

    //NEXT//
    I am not surprised that you did not "get it", Jerry.

    Tim obviously did.

    Just like the Say Red example ... words are everything.

    He only talks about improving probability of winning ... not ever
    mentioning guaranteed probability of not losing. Words are his tools of >>>> trade and seeming ... magical. You should actually listen to him, he is >>>> clever.

    It is not possible to gain an advantage in the 'Say Red' game that we discussed.
    I can gain an advantage in the "Say Red" game. I will never lose on as
    many games as you want to play. That is all to my "advantage".

    Do you have money?

    [Don't bite at all, Tim ... just skip it. Walk away. Don't respond.]

    No, you can't. What you can do is possibly win for some time, just like with coin tosses.

    I can play as many Say Red games as you want to play (for dollars) and I
    will never lose even one dollar to you. Not one no matter how many
    games you want to play. Wanna bet?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to jack roth on Sat Sep 16 11:26:58 2023
    On 9/16/2023 11:04 AM, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 8:59:50 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 2:59:53 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/15/2023 12:16 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 10:54:59 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>> On 9/15/2023 8:32 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:18:53 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>> On 9/14/2023 10:14 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling perhaps
    only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I
    know a little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...
    like I said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as
    an absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in small
    amounts....but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate.... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all >>>>>>>>>>>>> situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you
    say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you
    are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual >>>>>>>>>>> definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering >>>>>>>>>>> "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer. >>>>>>>>>>>
    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal
    .
    Ah, you finally see difficulty ... thanks for finally fessing up. >>>>>>
    See again?

    *** No Answer ***

    Just dodge.

    //NEXT//
    I am not surprised that you did not "get it", Jerry.

    Tim obviously did.

    Just like the Say Red example ... words are everything.

    He only talks about improving probability of winning ... not ever
    mentioning guaranteed probability of not losing. Words are his tools of >>>>> trade and seeming ... magical. You should actually listen to him, he is >>>>> clever.

    It is not possible to gain an advantage in the 'Say Red' game that we discussed.
    I can gain an advantage in the "Say Red" game. I will never lose on as
    many games as you want to play. That is all to my "advantage".

    Do you have money?

    [Don't bite at all, Tim ... just skip it. Walk away. Don't respond.]
    No, you can't. What you can do is possibly win for some time, just like with coin tosses.

    I can win coin tosses 100% of the time. Not like you said it needs to be a fair coin. Details, Tim. That was sloppy work.

    I do not need to cheat, Mav ... I will not lose even once. He will run now.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to da pickle on Sat Sep 16 17:47:29 2023
    On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 12:11:09 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/16/2023 10:59 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 2:59:53 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/15/2023 12:16 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 10:54:59 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/15/2023 8:32 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:18:53 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/14/2023 10:14 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted incorrectly because nobody understands math or probability and statistics, and also fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's actually being shown to the degree it's mind boggling
    perhaps only to be explained by you being some moron canadian who only sees the world through some idiotic canadian lens.
    Would you care to place a wager that "nobody understands math or probability and statistics"?
    Just like a libtard you had to cut out that little part of my post that was inconventient to you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I
    know a little math myself....and I bet between you and I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has actually used probability and statistics in real life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you?
    Many years ago when you were lamenting not being able to fill a vector calculus position. It never got to any serious stage at all as while I like all forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I would doubt that you have the necessary precision to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my sentences hoping to criticize only part of it without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand math...even sometimes math professors I've destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's just say I gave you an answer that had a source of error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math.
    Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you couldn't find anyone...
    like I said. My memory isn't faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of what I said by referring to it as
    an absolute...So, I reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants and particulates in
    small amounts....but they are in there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used to have a course which went much deeper, including into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate.... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" in all
    situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB like ... you
    say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add "usual" when you
    are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which "usual >>>>>>>>>> definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are considering
    "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer. >>>>>>>>>>
    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal
    .
    Ah, you finally see difficulty ... thanks for finally fessing up. >>>>>
    See again?

    *** No Answer ***

    Just dodge.

    //NEXT//
    I am not surprised that you did not "get it", Jerry.

    Tim obviously did.

    Just like the Say Red example ... words are everything.

    He only talks about improving probability of winning ... not ever
    mentioning guaranteed probability of not losing. Words are his tools of >>>> trade and seeming ... magical. You should actually listen to him, he is >>>> clever.

    It is not possible to gain an advantage in the 'Say Red' game that we discussed.
    I can gain an advantage in the "Say Red" game. I will never lose on as
    many games as you want to play. That is all to my "advantage".

    Do you have money?

    [Don't bite at all, Tim ... just skip it. Walk away. Don't respond.]

    No, you can't. What you can do is possibly win for some time, just like with coin tosses.
    I can play as many Say Red games as you want to play (for dollars) and I will never lose even one dollar to you. Not one no matter how many
    games you want to play. Wanna bet?

    Set the precise conditions, and we will figure a way to do it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Sun Sep 17 10:20:36 2023
    On 9/16/2023 7:47 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 12:11:09 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:

    I can play as many Say Red games as you want to play (for dollars) and I
    will never lose even one dollar to you. Not one no matter how many
    games you want to play. Wanna bet?

    Set the precise conditions, and we will figure a way to do it.

    Define "figure a way to do it".

    I can prove to you "to your satisfaction" that I can play as many Say
    Red games with you (or anyone else) as you (or another) want to play and
    I will never lose even one bet (dollar) to anyone. No matter how many
    games you (or anyone else) wants to play. You or they can shuffle and
    deal (but it has to be an honest game ... no cheating).

    Do you want the explanation of how I gain the advantage in the game?

    Wanna bet (no money involved) that I can gain the advantage in the game?

    Are you going to put up more conditions before you decide that I am
    correct and you are incorrect in your idea about the game?

    Or are you just going to just leave the table?

    [Anyone else want to bet?]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to da pickle on Sun Sep 17 16:55:06 2023
    On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 11:20:49 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/16/2023 7:47 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 12:11:09 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:

    I can play as many Say Red games as you want to play (for dollars) and I >> will never lose even one dollar to you. Not one no matter how many
    games you want to play. Wanna bet?

    Set the precise conditions, and we will figure a way to do it.
    Define "figure a way to do it".

    I can prove to you "to your satisfaction" that I can play as many Say
    Red games with you (or anyone else) as you (or another) want to play and
    I will never lose even one bet (dollar) to anyone. No matter how many
    games you (or anyone else) wants to play. You or they can shuffle and
    deal (but it has to be an honest game ... no cheating).

    Do you want the explanation of how I gain the advantage in the game?

    Wanna bet (no money involved) that I can gain the advantage in the game?

    Are you going to put up more conditions before you decide that I am
    correct and you are incorrect in your idea about the game?

    Or are you just going to just leave the table?

    [Anyone else want to bet?]

    I am on vacation this week, but will continue this.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Sun Sep 17 17:43:49 2023
    On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 4:55:18 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 11:20:49 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/16/2023 7:47 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 12:11:09 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:

    I can play as many Say Red games as you want to play (for dollars) and I
    will never lose even one dollar to you. Not one no matter how many
    games you want to play. Wanna bet?

    Set the precise conditions, and we will figure a way to do it.
    Define "figure a way to do it".

    I can prove to you "to your satisfaction" that I can play as many Say
    Red games with you (or anyone else) as you (or another) want to play and
    I will never lose even one bet (dollar) to anyone. No matter how many games you (or anyone else) wants to play. You or they can shuffle and
    deal (but it has to be an honest game ... no cheating).

    Do you want the explanation of how I gain the advantage in the game?

    Wanna bet (no money involved) that I can gain the advantage in the game?

    Are you going to put up more conditions before you decide that I am correct and you are incorrect in your idea about the game?

    Or are you just going to just leave the table?

    [Anyone else want to bet?]
    I am on vacation this week, but will continue this.

    Do you only have access to RGP while you are at work?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to jack roth on Mon Sep 18 10:20:17 2023
    On 9/17/2023 7:43 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 4:55:18 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 11:20:49 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/16/2023 7:47 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 12:11:09 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>
    I can play as many Say Red games as you want to play (for dollars) and I >>>>> will never lose even one dollar to you. Not one no matter how many
    games you want to play. Wanna bet?

    Set the precise conditions, and we will figure a way to do it.
    Define "figure a way to do it".

    I can prove to you "to your satisfaction" that I can play as many Say
    Red games with you (or anyone else) as you (or another) want to play and >>> I will never lose even one bet (dollar) to anyone. No matter how many
    games you (or anyone else) wants to play. You or they can shuffle and
    deal (but it has to be an honest game ... no cheating).

    Do you want the explanation of how I gain the advantage in the game?

    Wanna bet (no money involved) that I can gain the advantage in the game? >>>
    Are you going to put up more conditions before you decide that I am
    correct and you are incorrect in your idea about the game?

    Or are you just going to just leave the table?

    [Anyone else want to bet?]
    I am on vacation this week, but will continue this.

    Do you only have access to RGP while you are at work?

    Apparently this is too complicated for him to just answer.

    I really did not think he would just leave the table.

    Simple, Tim, just say you are not into gambling and should not ever
    express an opinion of a "bet" of any sort.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to da pickle on Mon Sep 18 10:23:26 2023
    On 9/16/2023 11:26 AM, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/16/2023 11:04 AM, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 8:59:50 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>> On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 2:59:53 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/15/2023 12:16 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 10:54:59 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 9/15/2023 8:32 AM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 8:18:53 AM UTC-7, da pickle >>>>>>> wrote:
    On 9/14/2023 10:14 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-4, da pickle >>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 9/13/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:26:04 AM UTC-4, da >>>>>>>>>>> pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 8:35 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:41:51 PM UTC-4, da >>>>>>>>>>>>> pickle wrote:
    On 9/12/2023 12:32 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, da >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pickle wrote:
    On 9/11/2023 8:49 PM, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:50:03 AM UTC-7, Tim >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 7:57:43 PM UTC-4, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-7, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:20:01 PM UTC-4, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 12:09:48 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-4, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jack roth wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:52:27 PM UTC-7, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 3:05:29 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    <snip>
    <snip>
    how data across the board is interpreted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrectly because nobody understands math or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probability and statistics, and also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fundamentally incapable of analyzing what's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually being shown to the degree it's mind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boggling perhaps only to be explained by you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being some moron canadian who only sees the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world through some idiotic canadian lens. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you care to place a wager that "nobody >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understands math or probability and statistics"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just like a libtard you had to cut out that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little part of my post that was inconventient to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you the fact that I was directing it to BillB. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, ya, I know you teach math. You tried to hire >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me to teach Vector Calculus. You see, I know a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little math myself....and I bet between you and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, I'm probably the only one of us two who has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually used probability and statistics in real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life.
    And you would be wrong again, on almost all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counts. When in the hell did I try to hire you? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many years ago when you were lamenting not being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to fill a vector calculus position. It never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got to any serious stage at all as while I like all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forms of math, I'm West Coast based and will remain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here.

    Still, your claim was "nobody understands >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> math...". That is once again complete hyperbole. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would doubt that you have the necessary precision >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to correctly use upper-level concepts, based on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your sloppiness in argument.
    1. It's not fair or good logic to truncate my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sentences hoping to criticize only part of it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without context.
    2. In my experience nobody does understand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> math...even sometimes math professors I've >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroyed at poker tables. Having said that, let's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just say I gave you an answer that had a source of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error...say 99% +/- 1% understand math. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then your memory is bad. We had not offered 'Vector >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Calculus' in decades by the time that I was doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scheduling.
    But, you notice how I specifically remember you being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a professor AND doing scheduling. Oddly unusual for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> math dept not to offer such a basic fundamental math >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cards....Calculus 3....perhaps it's just that you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't find anyone...like I said. My memory isn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faulty at all.

    'nobody' doesn't have a margin of error. That is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> precise statement. Had you said 'most people', I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would have heartily agreed.
    Only a moron mathematician could assume anything is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an absolute. An engineer has no absolutes. Just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uncertainty. In this case, the uncertainty is so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> negligible, it doesn't really change the meaning of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what I said by referring to it as an absolute...So, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reject your premise.
    Which is exactly the point. There are absolutes in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mathematics, and expressing generalities as absolutes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is sloppy.

    Expecting things said in conversation to be absolutes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is moronic. For example, when you ask for a glass of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> water from a waitress, you just ask for water, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't ask for a glass a water with various pollutants >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and particulates in small amounts....but they are in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.


    As for the classes, we did of course have Calculus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> III, which had vector calculus and a lot more. We used >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have a course which went much deeper, including >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into tensors.

    Ok....so, as usual, I'm completely accurate.... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A very interesting discussion. It appears that Tim will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> end this one.
    Very interesting.

    I always like discussions including "absolutes". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Does 1+1=2 "absolutely"?

    So simple a statement ... hummmmm

    Or not?

    Yes, for the usual definitions of addition. Proved by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Russell and Whitehead in the Principia, using 37 pages, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if I recall.
    "Usual" is another interesting "word".

    Are we limited to only the "usual definitions of addition" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to answer a
    simple question?

    Absolutely?

    Does that word include the "usual definitions of addition" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in all
    situations without more "words"?

    All right, if you insist. When you write 1+1=2, are you >>>>>>>>>>>>> using the symbol '+' in the addition of integers, or in one >>>>>>>>>>>>> of those stupid internet puzzles?
    I was asking questions that you do not answer. Very BillB >>>>>>>>>>>> like ... you
    say there are "absolutes in mathematics" but then add
    "usual" when you
    are asked about it ... and no "words" so we can know which >>>>>>>>>>>> "usual
    definitions of addition" in which "mathematics" you are >>>>>>>>>>>> considering
    "absolute".

    Go ahead and answer with an "absolutely accurate" answer. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Simple

    I did. The reason that I gave 'usual' is because that symbol >>>>>>>>>>> is used for a great many things within Mathematics, including >>>>>>>>>>> vector addition, and group operations in Abelian groups.
    No, you did not.

    Does 1+1=10?

    Specify binary or decimal
    .
    Ah, you finally see difficulty ... thanks for finally fessing up. >>>>>>>
    See again?

    *** No Answer ***

    Just dodge.

    //NEXT//
    I am not surprised that you did not "get it", Jerry.

    Tim obviously did.

    Just like the Say Red example ... words are everything.

    He only talks about improving probability of winning ... not ever
    mentioning guaranteed probability of not losing. Words are his
    tools of
    trade and seeming ... magical. You should actually listen to him,
    he is
    clever.

    It is not possible to gain an advantage in the 'Say Red' game that
    we discussed.
    I can gain an advantage in the "Say Red" game. I will never lose on as >>>> many games as you want to play. That is all to my "advantage".

    Do you have money?

    [Don't bite at all, Tim ... just skip it. Walk away. Don't respond.]
    No, you can't. What you can do is possibly win for some time, just
    like with coin tosses.

    I can win coin tosses 100% of the time.   Not like you said it needs
    to be a fair coin.  Details, Tim.  That was sloppy work.

    I do not need to cheat, Mav ... I will not lose even once.  He will run
    now.

    Apparently he really is going to run away.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Mon Sep 18 13:43:38 2023
    On 9/18/2023 1:35 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 8:23:47 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/16/2023 11:04 AM, jack roth wrote:
    .
    Apparently this is too complicated for him to just answer.
    I really did not think he would just leave the table.
    Apparently he really is going to run away.
    .

    Heh. For two "runaway champions" (plus Irish Mick & Pooperjay999) of cowardly dodging,
    ** Can't answer **, and just plain - disappearing - ; it's fun watching you tiring to 'chest bump.'

    Are going to bet me, Jerry? Or are you joining Tim and disappearing?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Mon Sep 18 11:35:55 2023
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 8:23:47 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/16/2023 11:04 AM, jack roth wrote:
    .
    Apparently this is too complicated for him to just answer.
    I really did not think he would just leave the table.
    Apparently he really is going to run away.
    .

    Heh. For two "runaway champions" (plus Irish Mick & Pooperjay999) of cowardly dodging,
    ** Can't answer **, and just plain - disappearing - ; it's fun watching you tiring to 'chest bump.'

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Mon Sep 18 11:55:27 2023
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 11:43:57 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/18/2023 1:35 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 8:23:47 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/16/2023 11:04 AM, jack roth wrote:
    .
    Apparently this is too complicated for him to just answer.
    I really did not think he would just leave the table.
    Apparently he really is going to run away.
    .

    Heh. For two "runaway champions" (plus Irish Mick & Pooperjay999) of cowardly dodging,
    ** Can't answer **, and just plain - disappearing - ; it's fun watching you tiring to 'chest bump.'
    .

    Are going to bet me, Jerry? Or are you joining Tim and disappearing?
    .

    See? He STILL can't answer those questions I asked...
    Where he "DISAPPEARED."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Mon Sep 18 14:01:56 2023
    On 9/18/2023 1:55 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 11:43:57 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/18/2023 1:35 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 8:23:47 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/16/2023 11:04 AM, jack roth wrote:
    .
    Apparently this is too complicated for him to just answer.
    I really did not think he would just leave the table.
    Apparently he really is going to run away.
    .

    Heh. For two "runaway champions" (plus Irish Mick & Pooperjay999) of cowardly dodging,
    ** Can't answer **, and just plain - disappearing - ; it's fun watching you tiring to 'chest bump.'
    .

    Are going to bet me, Jerry? Or are you joining Tim and disappearing?
    .

    See? He STILL can't answer those questions I asked...
    Where he "DISAPPEARED."

    This is the Say Red thread, Jerry. Are you in or out?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From RichD@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Mon Sep 18 13:11:24 2023
    On September 15, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    It is not possible to gain an advantage in the 'Say Red' game that we discussed.

    A dealer holds a stack of 100 cards, face down, each containing a
    different number. Your job is to guess the highest.

    He picks up the top card, looks at it. You may choose that one. If you reject, he pulls the next card, examines it, and announces whether it's
    the highest yet. If so, you may choose that one, or again reject.

    This process continues through the stack. If you reject the first 99 cards, you take the last one.

    Can you improve over 1%?

    --
    Rich

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  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to RichD on Mon Sep 18 15:41:54 2023
    On 9/18/2023 3:11 PM, RichD wrote:
    On September 15, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    It is not possible to gain an advantage in the 'Say Red' game that we discussed.

    A dealer holds a stack of 100 cards, face down, each containing a
    different number. Your job is to guess the highest.

    He picks up the top card, looks at it. You may choose that one. If you reject, he pulls the next card, examines it, and announces whether it's
    the highest yet. If so, you may choose that one, or again reject.

    This process continues through the stack. If you reject the first 99 cards, you take the last one.

    Can you improve over 1%?

    --
    Rich

    Don't understand the rules of your game.

    "guess the highest" of what?

    If there are 100 cards, only if 100 is the last card would you be able
    to pick the "highest" yet with your theory of waiting to the last card.

    You are a loser.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to RichD on Mon Sep 18 17:01:19 2023
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 1:11:29 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    On September 15, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    It is not possible to gain an advantage in the 'Say Red' game that we discussed.
    A dealer holds a stack of 100 cards, face down, each containing a
    different number. Your job is to guess the highest.

    He picks up the top card, looks at it. You may choose that one. If you reject, he pulls the next card, examines it, and announces whether it's
    the highest yet. If so, you may choose that one, or again reject.

    This process continues through the stack. If you reject the first 99 cards, you take the last one.

    Can you improve over 1%?

    --
    Rich
    Sounds very Monte Hall-ish.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From RichD@21:1/5 to jack roth on Mon Sep 18 20:16:11 2023
    On September 18, jack roth wrote:
    It is not possible to gain an advantage in the 'Say Red' game that we discussed.

    A dealer holds a stack of 100 cards, face down, each containing a
    different number. Your job is to guess the highest.
    He picks up the top card, looks at it. You may choose that one. If you
    reject, he pulls the next card, examines it, and announces whether it's
    the highest yet. If so, you may choose that one, or again reject.
    This process continues through the stack. If you reject the first 99 cards, >> you take the last one.
    Can you improve over 1%?

    Sounds very Monte Hall-ish.

    It is, but far more complicated. The exact solution, that is.
    The general strategy underlying the solution is comprehensible.

    --
    Rich

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  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to RichD on Mon Sep 18 21:11:37 2023
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 8:16:15 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    On September 18, jack roth wrote:
    It is not possible to gain an advantage in the 'Say Red' game that we discussed.

    A dealer holds a stack of 100 cards, face down, each containing a
    different number. Your job is to guess the highest.
    He picks up the top card, looks at it. You may choose that one. If you
    reject, he pulls the next card, examines it, and announces whether it's >> the highest yet. If so, you may choose that one, or again reject.
    This process continues through the stack. If you reject the first 99 cards,
    you take the last one.
    Can you improve over 1%?

    Sounds very Monte Hall-ish.

    It is, but far more complicated. The exact solution, that is.
    The general strategy underlying the solution is comprehensible.

    --
    Rich

    My guess is it's the exact same solution as Monte Hall, just more iterations. But, I haven't bothered to work anything out....

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  • From RichD@21:1/5 to jack roth on Tue Sep 19 12:24:50 2023
    On September 18, jack roth wrote:
    A dealer holds a stack of 100 cards, face down, each containing a
    different number. Your job is to guess the highest.
    He picks up the top card, looks at it. You may choose that one. If you
    reject, he pulls the next card, examines it, and announces whether it's >> >> the highest yet. If so, you may choose that one, or again reject.
    This process continues through the stack. If you reject the first 99 cards,
    you take the last one.
    Can you improve over 1%?

    Sounds very Monte Hall-ish.

    It is, but far more complicated. The exact solution, that is.
    The general strategy underlying the solution is comprehensible.

    My guess is it's the exact same solution as Monte Hall, just more iterations. But,
    I haven't bothered to work anything out....

    No, it's different. In Monte's game, he knows what's behind which
    door, and always shows you a pig. He's sneaky.

    In this game, the dealer is a robot, no choices. Very different.
    However, you're onto something - the iterations idea is important.

    I will describe the general strategy later. You should be able to suss
    it, without the algebra, which is eventually unavoidable.

    If you want a little brain exercise, try the 4 card case of J, K, Q, A.
    Same game, same rules, guess the ace. What strategy maximizes
    your EV?

    To solve this, you have to consider all possible sequences of 4 cards.
    Which is some work, but doable. Next, try it for 100 cards -

    --
    Rich

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  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Tue Sep 19 13:29:53 2023
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/18/2023 1:55 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 11:43:57 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/18/2023 1:35 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 8:23:47 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>>> On 9/16/2023 11:04 AM, jack roth wrote:
    .
    Apparently this is too complicated for him to just answer.
    I really did not think he would just leave the table.
    Apparently he really is going to run away.
    .

    Heh. For two "runaway champions" (plus Irish Mick & Pooperjay999) of cowardly dodging,
    ** Can't answer **, and just plain - disappearing - ; it's fun watching you tiring to 'chest bump.'
    .

    Are going to bet me, Jerry? Or are you joining Tim and disappearing?
    .

    See? He STILL can't answer those questions I asked...
    Where he "DISAPPEARED."
    .

    This is the Say Red thread, Jerry. Are you in or out?

    See? He *STILL* can't answer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichD@21:1/5 to RichD on Wed Sep 20 13:58:42 2023
    On September 19, RichD wrote:
    A dealer holds a stack of 100 cards, face down, each containing a
    different number. Your job is to guess the highest.
    He picks up the top card, looks at it. You may choose that one. If you
    reject, he pulls the next card, examines it, and announces whether it's >> >> the highest yet. If so, you may choose that one, or again reject.
    This process continues through the stack. If you reject the first 99 cards,
    you take the last one.
    Can you improve over 1%?

    Sounds very Monte Hall-ish.

    It is, but far more complicated. The exact solution, that is.
    The general strategy underlying the solution is comprehensible.

    My guess is it's the exact same solution as Monte Hall, just more iterations. But,
    I haven't bothered to work anything out....

    No, it's different. In Monte's game, he knows what's behind which
    door, and always shows you a pig. He's sneaky.
    In this game, the dealer is a robot, no choices. Very different.
    However, you're onto something - the iterations idea is important.
    I will describe the general strategy later. You should be able to suss
    it, without the algebra, which is eventually unavoidable.

    Let's say you reject the first 10 cards, then the dealer announces
    "highest card yet". Do you take it? There are 90 cards left, the
    high card is probably ahead, so you wait.

    Then on the 20th card, another announcement. hmmmm...
    80 cards to go, let's wait...

    You continue this way, rejecting. Eventually you reach the 70th
    card, and say "That's far enough, the next announcement, I'll
    grab it." uh, at that point, the high card is probably BEHIND you, brainiac -

    So you're looking for a magic number N, somewhere in between.
    The optimal strategy is to reject the first N cards, IGNORING
    THE DEALER, then pick the next announced high card.

    Computing N, depending on the deck size, involves a ton of
    algebra. Anyway, with optimal play, you can reach about 30%
    winning chance. 1% --> 30%, isn't that astounding?

    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to jack roth on Wed Sep 20 16:34:44 2023
    On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 8:43:54 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 4:55:18 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 11:20:49 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/16/2023 7:47 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 12:11:09 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:

    I can play as many Say Red games as you want to play (for dollars) and I
    will never lose even one dollar to you. Not one no matter how many
    games you want to play. Wanna bet?

    Set the precise conditions, and we will figure a way to do it.
    Define "figure a way to do it".

    I can prove to you "to your satisfaction" that I can play as many Say Red games with you (or anyone else) as you (or another) want to play and I will never lose even one bet (dollar) to anyone. No matter how many games you (or anyone else) wants to play. You or they can shuffle and deal (but it has to be an honest game ... no cheating).

    Do you want the explanation of how I gain the advantage in the game?

    Wanna bet (no money involved) that I can gain the advantage in the game?

    Are you going to put up more conditions before you decide that I am correct and you are incorrect in your idea about the game?

    Or are you just going to just leave the table?

    [Anyone else want to bet?]
    I am on vacation this week, but will continue this.
    Do you only have access to RGP while you are at work?

    No, but I'm in Vegas, having fun.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to RichD on Wed Sep 20 16:36:59 2023
    On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 3:24:55 PM UTC-4, RichD wrote:
    On September 18, jack roth wrote:
    A dealer holds a stack of 100 cards, face down, each containing a
    different number. Your job is to guess the highest.
    He picks up the top card, looks at it. You may choose that one. If you >> >> reject, he pulls the next card, examines it, and announces whether it's
    the highest yet. If so, you may choose that one, or again reject.
    This process continues through the stack. If you reject the first 99 cards,
    you take the last one.
    Can you improve over 1%?

    Sounds very Monte Hall-ish.

    It is, but far more complicated. The exact solution, that is.
    The general strategy underlying the solution is comprehensible.

    My guess is it's the exact same solution as Monte Hall, just more iterations. But,
    I haven't bothered to work anything out....
    No, it's different. In Monte's game, he knows what's behind which
    door, and always shows you a pig. He's sneaky.

    In this game, the dealer is a robot, no choices. Very different.
    However, you're onto something - the iterations idea is important.

    I will describe the general strategy later. You should be able to suss
    it, without the algebra, which is eventually unavoidable.

    If you want a little brain exercise, try the 4 card case of J, K, Q, A.
    Same game, same rules, guess the ace. What strategy maximizes
    your EV?

    To solve this, you have to consider all possible sequences of 4 cards.
    Which is some work, but doable. Next, try it for 100 cards -

    --
    Rich

    It was a goat, not a pig. Also, he himself said that he didn't have to open the other doors.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to RichD on Wed Sep 20 16:38:26 2023
    On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:58:46 PM UTC-4, RichD wrote:
    On September 19, RichD wrote:
    A dealer holds a stack of 100 cards, face down, each containing a
    different number. Your job is to guess the highest.
    He picks up the top card, looks at it. You may choose that one. If you >> >> reject, he pulls the next card, examines it, and announces whether it's
    the highest yet. If so, you may choose that one, or again reject.
    This process continues through the stack. If you reject the first 99 cards,
    you take the last one.
    Can you improve over 1%?

    Sounds very Monte Hall-ish.

    It is, but far more complicated. The exact solution, that is.
    The general strategy underlying the solution is comprehensible.

    My guess is it's the exact same solution as Monte Hall, just more iterations. But,
    I haven't bothered to work anything out....

    No, it's different. In Monte's game, he knows what's behind which
    door, and always shows you a pig. He's sneaky.
    In this game, the dealer is a robot, no choices. Very different.
    However, you're onto something - the iterations idea is important.
    I will describe the general strategy later. You should be able to suss
    it, without the algebra, which is eventually unavoidable.
    Let's say you reject the first 10 cards, then the dealer announces
    "highest card yet". Do you take it? There are 90 cards left, the
    high card is probably ahead, so you wait.

    Then on the 20th card, another announcement. hmmmm...
    80 cards to go, let's wait...

    You continue this way, rejecting. Eventually you reach the 70th
    card, and say "That's far enough, the next announcement, I'll
    grab it." uh, at that point, the high card is probably BEHIND you, brainiac -

    So you're looking for a magic number N, somewhere in between.
    The optimal strategy is to reject the first N cards, IGNORING
    THE DEALER, then pick the next announced high card.

    Computing N, depending on the deck size, involves a ton of
    algebra. Anyway, with optimal play, you can reach about 30%
    winning chance. 1% --> 30%, isn't that astounding?

    --
    Rich

    This similar to the suitor problem.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Wed Sep 20 17:21:21 2023
    On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:34:49 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    No, but I'm in Vegas, having fun.

    Well, give us a trip report since you are having fun. Some of us can't understand what's so fun about Vegas anymore.

    I actually don't think I've had fun there in many years....but it's gotten progressively worse. It really wasn't till I retired and could go any time I wanted that I realized I just didn't want to go there anymore. Same thing with Commerce...Driving
    thru traffic on the I-5 alone is way more than enough to keep me from making the trip. I never realized just how much I truly hated traffic and would seek to avoid it until I no longer had to drive in it.

    It's a weird paradox affecting me that now that I've finally got to the point I can do anything I want, I no longer desire those temporary escapes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Fri Sep 22 10:03:28 2023
    On 9/19/2023 3:29 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/18/2023 1:55 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 11:43:57 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/18/2023 1:35 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 8:23:47 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>> On 9/16/2023 11:04 AM, jack roth wrote:
    .
    Apparently this is too complicated for him to just answer.
    I really did not think he would just leave the table.
    Apparently he really is going to run away.
    .

    Heh. For two "runaway champions" (plus Irish Mick & Pooperjay999) of cowardly dodging,
    ** Can't answer **, and just plain - disappearing - ; it's fun watching you tiring to 'chest bump.'
    .

    Are going to bet me, Jerry? Or are you joining Tim and disappearing?
    .

    See? He STILL can't answer those questions I asked...
    Where he "DISAPPEARED."
    .

    This is the Say Red thread, Jerry. Are you in or out?

    See? He *STILL* can't answer.

    You would think that Tim would not use the Jerry to disappear completely.

    Say Red ... Tim is WRONG ... I can gain an advantage.

    Hy does he run ... you too Jerry ... and Bill seems to have disappeared
    too. No one can take a bet on a gambling group.

    Sad ...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Fri Sep 22 12:05:25 2023
    On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 8:03:48 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/19/2023 3:29 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/18/2023 1:55 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 11:43:57 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/18/2023 1:35 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 8:23:47 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>> On 9/16/2023 11:04 AM, jack roth wrote:
    .
    Apparently this is too complicated for him to just answer.
    I really did not think he would just leave the table.
    Apparently he really is going to run away.
    .

    Heh. For two "runaway champions" (plus Irish Mick & Pooperjay999) of cowardly dodging,
    ** Can't answer **, and just plain - disappearing - ; it's fun watching you tiring to 'chest bump.'
    .

    Are going to bet me, Jerry? Or are you joining Tim and disappearing? >>> .

    See? He STILL can't answer those questions I asked...
    Where he "DISAPPEARED."
    .

    This is the Say Red thread, Jerry. Are you in or out?

    See? He *STILL* can't answer.
    .

    You would think that Tim ...

    *** AND HE STILL CAN'T ANSWER ***

    (Has he no shame or embarrassment?)
    .
    .
    .



    would not use the Jerry to disappear completely.

    Say Red ... Tim is WRONG ... I can gain an advantage.

    Hy does he run ... you too Jerry ... and Bill seems to have disappeared
    too. No one can take a bet on a gambling group.

    Sad ...
    .

    See?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Fri Sep 22 16:59:02 2023
    On 9/22/2023 2:05 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 8:03:48 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/19/2023 3:29 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/18/2023 1:55 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 11:43:57 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 9/18/2023 1:35 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 8:23:47 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 9/16/2023 11:04 AM, jack roth wrote:
    .
    Apparently this is too complicated for him to just answer.
    I really did not think he would just leave the table.
    Apparently he really is going to run away.
    .

    Heh. For two "runaway champions" (plus Irish Mick & Pooperjay999) of cowardly dodging,
    ** Can't answer **, and just plain - disappearing - ; it's fun watching you tiring to 'chest bump.'
    .

    Are going to bet me, Jerry? Or are you joining Tim and disappearing? >>>>> .

    See? He STILL can't answer those questions I asked...
    Where he "DISAPPEARED."
    .

    This is the Say Red thread, Jerry. Are you in or out?

    See? He *STILL* can't answer.
    .

    You would think that Tim ...

    *** AND HE STILL CAN'T ANSWER ***

    (Has he no shame or embarrassment?)
    .
    .
    .



    would not use the Jerry to disappear completely.

    Say Red ... Tim is WRONG ... I can gain an advantage.

    Hy does he run ... you too Jerry ... and Bill seems to have disappeared
    too. No one can take a bet on a gambling group.

    Sad ...
    .

    See?

    We all see, Jerry ... neither you nor Tim can answer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Fri Sep 22 15:31:44 2023
    On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/22/2023 2:05 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 8:03:48 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/19/2023 3:29 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/18/2023 1:55 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 11:43:57 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 9/18/2023 1:35 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 8:23:47 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/16/2023 11:04 AM, jack roth wrote:
    .
    Apparently this is too complicated for him to just answer.
    I really did not think he would just leave the table.
    Apparently he really is going to run away.
    .

    Heh. For two "runaway champions" (plus Irish Mick & Pooperjay999) of cowardly dodging,
    ** Can't answer **, and just plain - disappearing - ; it's fun watching you tiring to 'chest bump.'
    .

    Are going to bet me, Jerry? Or are you joining Tim and disappearing? >>>>> .

    See? He STILL can't answer those questions I asked...
    Where he "DISAPPEARED."
    .

    This is the Say Red thread, Jerry. Are you in or out?

    See? He *STILL* can't answer.
    .

    You would think that Tim ...

    *** AND HE STILL CAN'T ANSWER ***

    (Has he no shame or embarrassment?)
    .
    .
    .



    would not use the Jerry to disappear completely.

    Say Red ... Tim is WRONG ... I can gain an advantage.

    Hy does he run ... you too Jerry ... and Bill seems to have disappeared >> too. No one can take a bet on a gambling group.

    Sad ...
    .

    See?
    .

    We all see, Jerry ...
    .

    Then why can't you answer?
    .
    .
    .
    .

    neither you nor Tim can answer.

    That doesn't not answer why YOU can't answer.
    Care to try again?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Sat Sep 23 07:29:35 2023
    On 9/22/2023 5:31 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/22/2023 2:05 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 8:03:48 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/19/2023 3:29 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 9/18/2023 1:55 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 11:43:57 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>> On 9/18/2023 1:35 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 8:23:47 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/16/2023 11:04 AM, jack roth wrote:
    .
    Apparently this is too complicated for him to just answer. >>>>>>>>>> I really did not think he would just leave the table.
    Apparently he really is going to run away.
    .

    Heh. For two "runaway champions" (plus Irish Mick & Pooperjay999) of cowardly dodging,
    ** Can't answer **, and just plain - disappearing - ; it's fun watching you tiring to 'chest bump.'
    .

    Are going to bet me, Jerry? Or are you joining Tim and disappearing? >>>>>>> .

    See? He STILL can't answer those questions I asked...
    Where he "DISAPPEARED."
    .

    This is the Say Red thread, Jerry. Are you in or out?

    See? He *STILL* can't answer.
    .

    You would think that Tim ...

    *** AND HE STILL CAN'T ANSWER ***

    (Has he no shame or embarrassment?)
    .
    .
    .



    would not use the Jerry to disappear completely.

    Say Red ... Tim is WRONG ... I can gain an advantage.

    Hy does he run ... you too Jerry ... and Bill seems to have disappeared >>>> too. No one can take a bet on a gambling group.

    Sad ...
    .

    See?
    .

    We all see, Jerry ...
    .

    Then why can't you answer?
    .
    .
    .
    .

    neither you nor Tim can answer.

    That doesn't not answer why YOU can't answer.
    Care to try again?

    The parrot sock puppet squawks

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Sat Sep 23 10:37:32 2023
    On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 3:31:49 PM UTC-7, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/22/2023 2:05 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 8:03:48 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/19/2023 3:29 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/18/2023 1:55 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 11:43:57 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/18/2023 1:35 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 8:23:47 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/16/2023 11:04 AM, jack roth wrote:
    .
    Apparently this is too complicated for him to just answer. >>>>>>>> I really did not think he would just leave the table.
    Apparently he really is going to run away.
    .

    Heh. For two "runaway champions" (plus Irish Mick & Pooperjay999) of cowardly dodging,
    ** Can't answer **, and just plain - disappearing - ; it's fun watching you tiring to 'chest bump.'
    .

    Are going to bet me, Jerry? Or are you joining Tim and disappearing?
    .

    See? He STILL can't answer those questions I asked...
    Where he "DISAPPEARED."
    .

    This is the Say Red thread, Jerry. Are you in or out?

    See? He *STILL* can't answer.
    .

    You would think that Tim ...

    *** AND HE STILL CAN'T ANSWER ***

    (Has he no shame or embarrassment?)
    .
    .
    .



    would not use the Jerry to disappear completely.

    Say Red ... Tim is WRONG ... I can gain an advantage.

    Hy does he run ... you too Jerry ... and Bill seems to have disappeared >> too. No one can take a bet on a gambling group.

    Sad ...
    .

    See?
    .
    We all see, Jerry ...
    .

    Then why can't you answer?
    .

    ***** AND HE STILL CAN'T ANSWER *****



    .
    .
    .
    .

    neither you nor Tim can answer.
    That doesn't not answer why YOU can't answer.
    Care to try again?

    ***** AND HE STILL CAN'T ANSWER *****

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Sat Sep 23 10:38:24 2023
    On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 5:29:51 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/22/2023 5:31 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 2:59:18 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/22/2023 2:05 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 8:03:48 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 9/19/2023 3:29 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 12:02:15 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 9/18/2023 1:55 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 11:43:57 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/18/2023 1:35 PM, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 8:23:47 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/16/2023 11:04 AM, jack roth wrote:
    .
    Apparently this is too complicated for him to just answer. >>>>>>>>>> I really did not think he would just leave the table.
    Apparently he really is going to run away.
    .

    Heh. For two "runaway champions" (plus Irish Mick & Pooperjay999) of cowardly dodging,
    ** Can't answer **, and just plain - disappearing - ; it's fun watching you tiring to 'chest bump.'
    .

    Are going to bet me, Jerry? Or are you joining Tim and disappearing?
    .

    See? He STILL can't answer those questions I asked...
    Where he "DISAPPEARED."
    .

    This is the Say Red thread, Jerry. Are you in or out?

    See? He *STILL* can't answer.
    .

    You would think that Tim ...

    *** AND HE STILL CAN'T ANSWER ***

    (Has he no shame or embarrassment?)
    .
    .
    .



    would not use the Jerry to disappear completely.

    Say Red ... Tim is WRONG ... I can gain an advantage.

    Hy does he run ... you too Jerry ... and Bill seems to have disappeared >>>> too. No one can take a bet on a gambling group.

    Sad ...
    .

    See?
    .

    We all see, Jerry ...
    .

    Then why can't you answer?
    .
    .
    .
    .

    neither you nor Tim can answer.

    That doesn't not answer why YOU can't answer.
    Care to try again?
    The parrot sock puppet squawks
    .

    Must take that as another of your embarrassing "No," and a runaway...................

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Sat Sep 23 14:54:39 2023
    On 9/23/2023 12:37 PM, VegasJerry wrote:

    You would think that Tim ... would not use the Jerry to disappear completely.

    Say Red ... Tim is WRONG ... I can gain an advantage.

    Still running, Tim ... and Jerry

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to jack roth on Sat Sep 23 16:03:28 2023
    On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 8:21:25 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:34:49 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    No, but I'm in Vegas, having fun.
    Well, give us a trip report since you are having fun. Some of us can't understand what's so fun about Vegas anymore.

    I actually don't think I've had fun there in many years....but it's gotten progressively worse. It really wasn't till I retired and could go any time I wanted that I realized I just didn't want to go there anymore. Same thing with Commerce...Driving
    thru traffic on the I-5 alone is way more than enough to keep me from making the trip. I never realized just how much I truly hated traffic and would seek to avoid it until I no longer had to drive in it.

    It's a weird paradox affecting me that now that I've finally got to the point I can do anything I want, I no longer desire those temporary escapes.

    I hadn't been in 4 years, because of Covid. My brother had never been, so I had us stay in the Golden Nugget. We are both having fun, playing table games and people watching. Last night, the place looked like a hookers' convention with the outfits that
    young women were wearing. I was actually propositioned by a very attractive hooker last night, while playing video poker.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to da pickle on Sat Sep 23 16:05:21 2023
    On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 3:54:56 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/23/2023 12:37 PM, VegasJerry wrote:

    You would think that Tim ... would not use the Jerry to disappear completely.

    Say Red ... Tim is WRONG ... I can gain an advantage.
    Still running, Tim ... and Jerry

    Are you really that dense? I told you that I would be back online with time when I get home.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Sat Sep 23 17:08:33 2023
    On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 4:03:34 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 8:21:25 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:34:49 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    No, but I'm in Vegas, having fun.
    Well, give us a trip report since you are having fun. Some of us can't understand what's so fun about Vegas anymore.

    I actually don't think I've had fun there in many years....but it's gotten progressively worse. It really wasn't till I retired and could go any time I wanted that I realized I just didn't want to go there anymore. Same thing with Commerce...Driving
    thru traffic on the I-5 alone is way more than enough to keep me from making the trip. I never realized just how much I truly hated traffic and would seek to avoid it until I no longer had to drive in it.

    It's a weird paradox affecting me that now that I've finally got to the point I can do anything I want, I no longer desire those temporary escapes.
    I hadn't been in 4 years, because of Covid. My brother had never been, so I had us stay in the Golden Nugget. We are both having fun, playing table games and people watching. Last night, the place looked like a hookers' convention with the outfits that
    young women were wearing. I was actually propositioned by a very attractive hooker last night, while playing video poker.

    I've lost count how many times I've been to vegas, but unless things have drastically changed, the uglier, fatter, older women hang out in downtown. And, the hookers downtown aren't nearly the quality that propositions you at Bellagio or in that area.
    Usually, the hookers downtown are rather swarthy urbanites. And, word to the wise, if you want these leeches not to solicit you, don't play video poker by walkways....which IMO, you must have been doing. Also, if you make the mistake again of
    staying downtown, avoid the bar at Binions as if your life depended on it. Now if you really want to see you women dressed rather naked and are very hot and in shape, go to Vegas on Halloween weekend and stay at something like the Wynn...or maybe Venetian. But, if you are the type that really likes a high quality broad hit
    on you in a casino just for kicks, dress well, put on a nice watch and then go hang out by yourself at that lounge with the interesting table sculpture by the table games at Bellagio.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From da pickle@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Sun Sep 24 08:19:25 2023
    On 9/23/2023 6:05 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 3:54:56 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/23/2023 12:37 PM, VegasJerry wrote:

    You would think that Tim ... would not use the Jerry to disappear completely.

    Say Red ... Tim is WRONG ... I can gain an advantage.
    Still running, Tim ... and Jerry

    Are you really that dense? I told you that I would be back online with time when I get home.

    How much TIME does it take to just say:

    "I was wrong about the Say Red game, John ... you were right, you can
    gain an advantage in the Say Red game."

    Worse than Jerry. If you really want to be a man ... make a bet ...
    this is RGP. But no, you are too tired and need rest. Fake

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Sun Sep 24 07:22:33 2023
    On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 6:19:42 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/23/2023 6:05 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 3:54:56 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/23/2023 12:37 PM, VegasJerry wrote:

    You would think that Tim ... would not use the Jerry to disappear completely.

    Say Red ... Tim is WRONG ... I can gain an advantage.
    Still running, Tim ... and Jerry

    Are you really that dense? I told you that I would be back online with time when I get home.
    How much TIME does it take to just say:

    "I was wrong about the Say Red game, John ... you were right, you can
    gain an advantage in the Say Red game."

    Worse than Jerry. If you really want to be a man ... make a bet ...
    this is RGP. But no, you are too tired and need rest. Fake
    .

    See what I mean, Tim?
    He *** STILL CAN'T ANSWER ***
    Just blubber and dodge and whine...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to da pickle on Sun Sep 24 07:16:12 2023
    On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 12:54:56 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:
    On 9/23/2023 12:37 PM, VegasJerry wrote:

    You would think that Tim ... would not use the Jerry to disappear completely.

    Say Red ... Tim is WRONG ... I can gain an advantage.
    .

    Still running, Tim ... and Jerry

    We know. We see. When will you stop and actually answer ANYTHING?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to jack roth on Mon Sep 25 08:41:21 2023
    On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 8:08:38 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 4:03:34 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 8:21:25 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:34:49 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    No, but I'm in Vegas, having fun.
    Well, give us a trip report since you are having fun. Some of us can't understand what's so fun about Vegas anymore.

    I actually don't think I've had fun there in many years....but it's gotten progressively worse. It really wasn't till I retired and could go any time I wanted that I realized I just didn't want to go there anymore. Same thing with Commerce...
    Driving thru traffic on the I-5 alone is way more than enough to keep me from making the trip. I never realized just how much I truly hated traffic and would seek to avoid it until I no longer had to drive in it.

    It's a weird paradox affecting me that now that I've finally got to the point I can do anything I want, I no longer desire those temporary escapes.
    I hadn't been in 4 years, because of Covid. My brother had never been, so I had us stay in the Golden Nugget. We are both having fun, playing table games and people watching. Last night, the place looked like a hookers' convention with the outfits
    that young women were wearing. I was actually propositioned by a very attractive hooker last night, while playing video poker.
    I've lost count how many times I've been to vegas, but unless things have drastically changed, the uglier, fatter, older women hang out in downtown. And, the hookers downtown aren't nearly the quality that propositions you at Bellagio or in that area.
    Usually, the hookers downtown are rather swarthy urbanites. And, word to the wise, if you want these leeches not to solicit you, don't play video poker by walkways....which IMO, you must have been doing. Also, if you make the mistake again of staying
    downtown, avoid the bar at Binions as if your life depended on it.
    Now if you really want to see you women dressed rather naked and are very hot and in shape, go to Vegas on Halloween weekend and stay at something like the Wynn...or maybe Venetian. But, if you are the type that really likes a high quality broad hit on
    you in a casino just for kicks, dress well, put on a nice watch and then go hang out by yourself at that lounge with the interesting table sculpture by the table games at Bellagio.

    I was staying on the Strip at Halloween about 5 years ago, and the views were interesting.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bradley K. Sherman@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 3 17:54:00 2023
    |
    | Today, a federal court in Georgia greenlit a lawsuit
    | against Dinesh D'Souza, Salem Media, Regnery Publishing,
    | True The Vote, and True the Vote's Catherine Engelbrecht
    | and Gregg Phillips (along with D'Souza Media) for peddling
    | manufactured lies that the 2020 presidential election was
    | stolen by "ballot mules" engaged in election fraud.
    | ...
    <https://protectdemocracy.org/work/judge-rules-against-dinesh-dsouza/>

    --bks

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Bradley K. Sherman on Tue Oct 3 12:51:28 2023
    On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 10:54:06 AM UTC-7, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
    |
    | Today, a federal court in Georgia greenlit a lawsuit
    | against Dinesh D'Souza, Salem Media, Regnery Publishing,
    | True The Vote, and True the Vote's Catherine Engelbrecht
    | and Gregg Phillips (along with D'Souza Media) for peddling
    | manufactured lies that the 2020 presidential election was
    | stolen by "ballot mules" engaged in election fraud.
    | ...
    <https://protectdemocracy.org/work/judge-rules-against-dinesh-dsouza/>

    --bks

    Ya, we call that lawfare bullshit. Trying to bankrupt somebody via forcing them to defend themselves in court because they said something that went against your narrative. Probably Trump has a lot of say on that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bradley K. Sherman@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Oct 3 19:55:06 2023
    jack roth <[email protected]> wrote:
    |
    | Today, a federal court in Georgia greenlit a lawsuit
    | against Dinesh D'Souza, Salem Media, Regnery Publishing,
    | True The Vote, and True the Vote's Catherine Engelbrecht
    | and Gregg Phillips (along with D'Souza Media) for peddling
    | manufactured lies that the 2020 presidential election was
    | stolen by "ballot mules" engaged in election fraud.

    Ya, we call that lawfare bullshit.
    ...

    "We"? You and your tapeworm?

    --bks

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BillB@21:1/5 to Bradley K. Sherman on Tue Oct 3 13:42:01 2023
    On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 12:55:13 PM UTC-7, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
    jack roth <[email protected]> wrote:
    |
    | Today, a federal court in Georgia greenlit a lawsuit
    | against Dinesh D'Souza, Salem Media, Regnery Publishing,
    | True The Vote, and True the Vote's Catherine Engelbrecht
    | and Gregg Phillips (along with D'Souza Media) for peddling
    | manufactured lies that the 2020 presidential election was
    | stolen by "ballot mules" engaged in election fraud.

    Ya, we call that lawfare bullshit.
    ...

    "We"? You and your tapeworm?

    I think he is referring to the voices.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Bradley K. Sherman on Tue Oct 3 13:55:45 2023
    On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 12:55:13 PM UTC-7, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
    jack roth <[email protected]> wrote:
    |
    | Today, a federal court in Georgia greenlit a lawsuit
    | against Dinesh D'Souza, Salem Media, Regnery Publishing,
    | True The Vote, and True the Vote's Catherine Engelbrecht
    | and Gregg Phillips (along with D'Souza Media) for peddling
    | manufactured lies that the 2020 presidential election was
    | stolen by "ballot mules" engaged in election fraud.

    Ya, we call that lawfare bullshit.
    ...

    "We"? You and your tapeworm?

    --bks

    Me and your mom who is piping my cock right now.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to BillB on Tue Oct 3 16:27:21 2023
    On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
    On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 12:55:13 PM UTC-7, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
    jack roth <[email protected]> wrote:
    |
    | Today, a federal court in Georgia greenlit a lawsuit
    | against Dinesh D'Souza, Salem Media, Regnery Publishing,
    | True The Vote, and True the Vote's Catherine Engelbrecht
    | and Gregg Phillips (along with D'Souza Media) for peddling
    | manufactured lies that the 2020 presidential election was
    | stolen by "ballot mules" engaged in election fraud.

    Ya, we call that lawfare bullshit.
    ...

    "We"? You and your tapeworm?
    I think he is referring to the voices.
    .

    Internet:

    "Can you tell if someone's lying by their use of function words? Yes. A person who's
    lying tends to use “we” more or use sentences without a first-person pronoun at all."

    It more like, "share the error;" the act of ignorance and cowardice. As in a confrontational
    crowd, they back up, look right and left and challenge; "Oh yea! Well 'we' will kick your ass."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)