Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).]
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle)No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).]
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back? >>
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?Thanks for responding.
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between half and almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet getting closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail moves at "once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted faster
than light?]
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:09:58 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle) ... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).]No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?What's the 'electricity?' The wave, or the actual electron?
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back? >>>>
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle) >>>> ... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire? >> Thanks for responding.
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body.
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 7:17:15 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:.
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:09:58 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle) ... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).]No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
.What's the 'electricity?' The wave, or the actual electron?
There is not 'an electron' in the process.
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 5:04:06 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 7:17:15 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:09:58 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle)No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).]
.A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
.What's the 'electricity?' The wave, or the actual electron?
There is not 'an electron' in the process.The joules? The 'speed' of what? In my antenna studies it's shown that if you have a coil at the bottom of your antenna, the inductive reactance 'slows' the 'wave' up the antenna, electrically lengthening it. Is this the 'speed' you're talking about?
On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Thanks for responding.
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end >>>> moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back? >>>>
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle) >>>> ... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).] >>>
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such thing. Maybe >> a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet getting >> closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail moves at >> "once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body.If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move
when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits it.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to move at "exactly" the same time?
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:47:58 AM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 5:04:06 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 7:17:15 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:.
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:09:58 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end >>>>>> moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back? >>>>>>
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle) >>>>>> ... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).] >>>>> No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
.What's the 'electricity?' The wave, or the actual electron?
There is not 'an electron' in the process.The joules? The 'speed' of what? In my antenna studies it's shown that if you have a coil at the bottom of your antenna, the inductive reactance 'slows' the 'wave' up the antenna, electrically lengthening it. Is this the 'speed' you're talking about?
Joules are just a measure of energy. The current in a wire is our perception of a string of electrons bumping into each other.
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Thanks for responding.
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end >>>>>> moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back? >>>>>>
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle) >>>>>> ... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).] >>>>>
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between half and >>>> almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the distortion to >>>> get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such thing. Maybe >>>> a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet getting >>>> closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail moves at >>>> "once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted faster >>>> than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body.
agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move
when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits it.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or
compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth. The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure.
On 3/18/2023 10:13 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:47:58 AM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 5:04:06 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 7:17:15 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:.
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:09:58 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end >>>>>> moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).] >>>>> No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
.What's the 'electricity?' The wave, or the actual electron?
There is not 'an electron' in the process.The joules? The 'speed' of what? In my antenna studies it's shown that if you have a coil at the bottom of your antenna, the inductive reactance 'slows' the 'wave' up the antenna, electrically lengthening it. Is this the 'speed' you're talking about?
Joules are just a measure of energy. The current in a wire is our perception of a string of electrons bumping into each other.Vibration? Jitters ... "waves" maybe? I like it. I like the image of
the surfer riding the wave.
On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?Thanks for responding.
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end >>>>>> moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).] >>>>>
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for that >>>> one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between half and >>>> almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than most >>>> folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about >>>> strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the distortion to >>>> get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet getting >>>> closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail moves at >>>> "once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted faster >>>> than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body.
agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move
when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits it. >>
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or
compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when released >> to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to move at >> "exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth. The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure.Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the
"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same "time"?
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:That's not a simple question at all. At what temperature...what thickness....what metal?
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle)No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).]
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:46:27 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/18/2023 10:13 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:47:58 AM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:Vibration? Jitters ... "waves" maybe? I like it. I like the image of
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 5:04:06 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 7:17:15 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:.
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:09:58 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>> Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end >>>>>>>> moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle) >>>>>>>> ... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).] >>>>>>> No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
.What's the 'electricity?' The wave, or the actual electron?
There is not 'an electron' in the process.The joules? The 'speed' of what? In my antenna studies it's shown that if you have a coil at the bottom of your antenna, the inductive reactance 'slows' the 'wave' up the antenna, electrically lengthening it. Is this the 'speed' you're talking about?
Joules are just a measure of energy. The current in a wire is our perception of a string of electrons bumping into each other.
the surfer riding the wave.
Close, probably. Visualize the wire as made up of a bunch of little springs, then follow the compression as you push on one end.
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the
On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>> Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?Thanks for responding.
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end >>>>>>>> moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle) >>>>>>>> ... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).] >>>>>>>
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for that >>>>>> one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between half and >>>>>> almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A >>>>>> more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically >>>>>> speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than most >>>>>> folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about >>>>>> strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the distortion to >>>>>> get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such thing. Maybe >>>>>> a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet getting >>>>>> closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail moves at >>>>>> "once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted faster >>>>>> than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body.
agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move
when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits it. >>>>
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or >>>> compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when released >>>> to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to move at >>>> "exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth. The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure.
"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
"time"?
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so would sag in something like a catenary.
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:46:27 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:about?
On 3/18/2023 10:13 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:47:58 AM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 5:04:06 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 7:17:15 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote: >>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:09:58 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?.
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end >>>>>> moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).]
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
.What's the 'electricity?' The wave, or the actual electron?
There is not 'an electron' in the process.The joules? The 'speed' of what? In my antenna studies it's shown that if you have a coil at the bottom of your antenna, the inductive reactance 'slows' the 'wave' up the antenna, electrically lengthening it. Is this the 'speed' you're talking
.Close, probably. Visualize the wire as made up of a bunch of little springs, then follow the compression as you push on one end.Joules are just a measure of energy. The current in a wire is our perception of a string of electrons bumping into each other.Vibration? Jitters ... "waves" maybe? I like it. I like the image of
the surfer riding the wave.
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:09:58 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle) ... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).]No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?That's not a simple question at all. At what temperature...what thickness....what metal?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 5:27:07 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:about?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:46:27 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/18/2023 10:13 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:47:58 AM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 5:04:06 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 7:17:15 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote: >>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:09:58 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
.No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).]
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
.What's the 'electricity?' The wave, or the actual electron?
There is not 'an electron' in the process.The joules? The 'speed' of what? In my antenna studies it's shown that if you have a coil at the bottom of your antenna, the inductive reactance 'slows' the 'wave' up the antenna, electrically lengthening it. Is this the 'speed' you're talking
they have one built yet, do you?.Close, probably. Visualize the wire as made up of a bunch of little springs, then follow the compression as you push on one end.Joules are just a measure of energy. The current in a wire is our perception of a string of electrons bumping into each other.Vibration? Jitters ... "waves" maybe? I like it. I like the image of
the surfer riding the wave.
This speed, (less than the speed of light) can be measured because they’re making the Cray computer in a closed in circle as much as the can to keep the connecting wires short; because of the speed of light.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray
That’s what I was asking you as you seem to have an inside on some of this light speed restrictions. I understand they’re trying fiber optics as internal computer connections to increase the speeds closer to the speed of light. I don’t know if
On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 1:50:06 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:about?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 5:27:07 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:46:27 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/18/2023 10:13 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:47:58 AM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 5:04:06 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 7:17:15 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote: >>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:09:58 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
.On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it would take.
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a wave).]
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity in a wire?
.What's the 'electricity?' The wave, or the actual electron?
There is not 'an electron' in the process.The joules? The 'speed' of what? In my antenna studies it's shown that if you have a coil at the bottom of your antenna, the inductive reactance 'slows' the 'wave' up the antenna, electrically lengthening it. Is this the 'speed' you're talking
they have one built yet, do you?.Close, probably. Visualize the wire as made up of a bunch of little springs, then follow the compression as you push on one end.Joules are just a measure of energy. The current in a wire is our perception of a string of electrons bumping into each other.Vibration? Jitters ... "waves" maybe? I like it. I like the image of the surfer riding the wave.
This speed, (less than the speed of light) can be measured because they’re making the Cray computer in a closed in circle as much as the can to keep the connecting wires short; because of the speed of light.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray
That’s what I was asking you as you seem to have an inside on some of this light speed restrictions. I understand they’re trying fiber optics as internal computer connections to increase the speeds closer to the speed of light. I don’t know if
The last I looked, one of the biggest problems is getting rid of waste heat.
You mentioned Cray, which took me back to a project we did in about 1988 on the "new" Cray Y-MP
at OSU. WE used 8 full hours of processor time in a short period of time.
On 3/19/2023 7:25 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the
On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>> On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I >>>>> agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move >>>>> when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>> Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?Thanks for responding.
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back >>>>>>>>> end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to >>>>>>>>> the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>> particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>> wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion >>>>>>>> when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it
would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity >>>>>>>> in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for >>>>>>> that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between
half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A >>>>>>> more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically >>>>>>> speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than >>>>>>> most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about >>>>>>> strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the
distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such
thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet
getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail
moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted
faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body.
it.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or >>>>> compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when
released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to
move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using
the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices
first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same
acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth.
The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure.
"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
"time"?
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so
would sag in something like a catenary.
Catenary arch ... inverted catenary ... but why would the "whole"
catenary arch not "drop" when "released"?
On 3/20/2023 8:26 AM, da pickle wrote:
On 3/19/2023 7:25 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>> On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>> On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I >>>>> agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move >>>>> when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits >>>>> it.
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>> Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?Thanks for responding.
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back >>>>>>>>> end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to >>>>>>>>> the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>> particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>> wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion >>>>>>>> when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it >>>>>>>> would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity >>>>>>>> in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for >>>>>>> that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between >>>>>>> half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A >>>>>>> more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically >>>>>>> speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than >>>>>>> most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about >>>>>>> strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the
distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such
thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet >>>>>>> getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail >>>>>>> moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted >>>>>>> faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or >>>>> compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when
released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to
move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using >>>> the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices >>>> first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same
acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth.
The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure.
"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of >>> the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same >>> "time"?
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so
would sag in something like a catenary.
Catenary arch ... inverted catenary ... but why would the "whole"Tim?
catenary arch not "drop" when "released"?
On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:07:00 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/20/2023 8:26 AM, da pickle wrote:
On 3/19/2023 7:25 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Tim?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>> On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I >>>>>>> agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move >>>>>>> when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits >>>>>>> it.
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?Thanks for responding.
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back >>>>>>>>>>> end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to >>>>>>>>>>> the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"?
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>>>> particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>>>> wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion >>>>>>>>>> when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it >>>>>>>>>> would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity >>>>>>>>>> in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for >>>>>>>>> that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between >>>>>>>>> half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A >>>>>>>>> more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically >>>>>>>>> speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than >>>>>>>>> most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about >>>>>>>>> strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the
distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such
thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet >>>>>>>>> getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail >>>>>>>>> moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted >>>>>>>>> faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or >>>>>>> compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when
released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to
move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using >>>>>> the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices >>>>>> first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same
acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth.
The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure.
"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of >>>>> the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same >>>>> "time"?
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so
would sag in something like a catenary.
Catenary arch ... inverted catenary ... but why would the "whole"
catenary arch not "drop" when "released"?
This hypothetical but impossible object would drop. Bits would also stretch.
On 3/22/2023 3:52 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:07:00 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/20/2023 8:26 AM, da pickle wrote:
On 3/19/2023 7:25 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Tim?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>> On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the >>>>> "ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of >>>>> the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?Thanks for responding.
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back >>>>>>>>>>> end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to >>>>>>>>>>> the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"? >>>>>>>>>>>
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>>>> particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>>>> wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion >>>>>>>>>> when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it >>>>>>>>>> would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity >>>>>>>>>> in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for >>>>>>>>> that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between >>>>>>>>> half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A >>>>>>>>> more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically >>>>>>>>> speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than >>>>>>>>> most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the
distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such >>>>>>>>> thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet >>>>>>>>> getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail >>>>>>>>> moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted >>>>>>>>> faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body.
agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move >>>>>>> when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits >>>>>>> it.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or
compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when >>>>>>> released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to >>>>>>> move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using >>>>>> the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices >>>>>> first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same
acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth. >>>>>> The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure.
"time"?
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so >>>> would sag in something like a catenary.
Catenary arch ... inverted catenary ... but why would the "whole"
catenary arch not "drop" when "released"?
This hypothetical but impossible object would drop. Bits would also stretch.Why is the object "impossible"?
Do not the bottom "ends/edges" move at the same "time" ("stretch" or
not)? [At least at the absolute "edges".]
Maybe?
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 11:07:31 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:.
On 3/22/2023 3:52 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:07:00 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/20/2023 8:26 AM, da pickle wrote:
On 3/19/2023 7:25 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Tim?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>> On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the >>>>> "ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Thanks for responding.
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back
end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to >>>>>>>>>>> the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"? >>>>>>>>>>>
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>>>> particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>>>> wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion >>>>>>>>>> when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it >>>>>>>>>> would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity
in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for >>>>>>>>> that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between >>>>>>>>> half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than >>>>>>>>> most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the >>>>>>>>> distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such >>>>>>>>> thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet >>>>>>>>> getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail >>>>>>>>> moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted >>>>>>>>> faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body.
agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move
when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits
it.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or
compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when >>>>>>> released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to >>>>>>> move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using
the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices
first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same
acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth. >>>>>> The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure.
the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
"time"?
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so >>>> would sag in something like a catenary.
Catenary arch ... inverted catenary ... but why would the "whole"
catenary arch not "drop" when "released"?
This hypothetical but impossible object would drop. Bits would also stretch.Why is the object "impossible"?
Do not the bottom "ends/edges" move at the same "time" ("stretch" or
not)? [At least at the absolute "edges".]
Maybe?'Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the
"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same "time"?'
This implies a totally rigid body of quite a length. Not possible.
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 5:59:42 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 11:07:31 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/22/2023 3:52 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:07:00 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/20/2023 8:26 AM, da pickle wrote:
On 3/19/2023 7:25 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Tim?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>> On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the >>>>> "ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Thanks for responding.
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back
end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to
the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"? >>>>>>>>>>>
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>>>> particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a
wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion
when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it >>>>>>>>>> would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity
in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for
that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between >>>>>>>>> half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than
most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the >>>>>>>>> distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such >>>>>>>>> thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet
getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail >>>>>>>>> moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted
faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body.
agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move
when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits
it.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or
compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when >>>>>>> released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to >>>>>>> move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using
the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices
first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same
acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth. >>>>>> The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure.
the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
"time"?
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so >>>> would sag in something like a catenary.
Catenary arch ... inverted catenary ... but why would the "whole" >>> catenary arch not "drop" when "released"?
This hypothetical but impossible object would drop. Bits would also stretch.Why is the object "impossible"?
Do not the bottom "ends/edges" move at the same "time" ("stretch" or not)? [At least at the absolute "edges".]
Maybe?'Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the
"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same "time"?'
This implies a totally rigid body of quite a length. Not possible..
That's not what my wife says..
On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 4:35:51 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 5:59:42 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 11:07:31 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:.
On 3/22/2023 3:52 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:'Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the
On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:07:00 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 3/20/2023 8:26 AM, da pickle wrote:Why is the object "impossible"?
On 3/19/2023 7:25 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Tim?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:"time"?
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Thanks for responding.
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion >>>>>>>>>>>>>> when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for >>>>>>>>>>>>> that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between >>>>>>>>>>>>> half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than >>>>>>>>>>>>> most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet >>>>>>>>>>>>> getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail >>>>>>>>>>>>> moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted >>>>>>>>>>>>> faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body.
agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move
when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits >>>>>>>>>>> it.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or
compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when >>>>>>>>>>> released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to >>>>>>>>>>> move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using >>>>>>>>>> the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices >>>>>>>>>> first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same
acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth. >>>>>>>>>> The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure. >>>>>>>>> Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the >>>>>>>>> "ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of >>>>>>>>> the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so >>>>>>>> would sag in something like a catenary.
Catenary arch ... inverted catenary ... but why would the "whole" >>>>>>> catenary arch not "drop" when "released"?
This hypothetical but impossible object would drop. Bits would also stretch.
Do not the bottom "ends/edges" move at the same "time" ("stretch" or
not)? [At least at the absolute "edges".]
Maybe?
"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
"time"?'
This implies a totally rigid body of quite a length. Not possible.
That's not what my wife says..
Just watch some of the commercials about Peyroni's disease
On 3/24/2023 7:34 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 4:35:51 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 5:59:42 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 11:07:31 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 3/22/2023 3:52 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:.
'Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... theOn Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:07:00 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 3/20/2023 8:26 AM, da pickle wrote:Why is the object "impossible"?
On 3/19/2023 7:25 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Tim?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move
On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Thanks for responding.
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back
end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to
the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a
wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion
when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity
in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for
that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between >>>>>>>>>>>>> half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than
most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet
getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail >>>>>>>>>>>>> moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted
faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body. >>>>>>>>>>> If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits
it.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or
compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when >>>>>>>>>>> released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to >>>>>>>>>>> move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using
the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices
first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same >>>>>>>>>> acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth. >>>>>>>>>> The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure. >>>>>>>>> Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the >>>>>>>>> "ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
"time"?
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so >>>>>>>> would sag in something like a catenary.
Catenary arch ... inverted catenary ... but why would the "whole" >>>>>>> catenary arch not "drop" when "released"?
This hypothetical but impossible object would drop. Bits would also stretch.
Do not the bottom "ends/edges" move at the same "time" ("stretch" or >>>> not)? [At least at the absolute "edges".]
Maybe?
"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of >>> the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same >>> "time"?'
This implies a totally rigid body of quite a length. Not possible.
That's not what my wife says..
Just watch some of the commercials about Peyroni's diseaseI am sorry you have chosen to leave this thought experiment.
The "body" need not be "totally rigid" ... it is hanging as rigid as it
"is" ... when released, are you saying the "ends" react "differently" to
the downward gravity?
If you believe the ends react differently, please tell me what is the
cause of the difference and is it measurable.
On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 9:01:43 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/24/2023 7:34 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 4:35:51 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:I am sorry you have chosen to leave this thought experiment.
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 5:59:42 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>> On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 11:07:31 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 3/22/2023 3:52 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
.'Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... theOn Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:07:00 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>> On 3/20/2023 8:26 AM, da pickle wrote:Why is the object "impossible"?
On 3/19/2023 7:25 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Tim?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move
On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Thanks for responding.
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back
end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity
in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for
that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than
most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body. >>>>>>>>>>>>> If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits
it.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or
compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when >>>>>>>>>>>>> released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to >>>>>>>>>>>>> move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using
the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices
first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same >>>>>>>>>>>> acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth. >>>>>>>>>>>> The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure. >>>>>>>>>>> Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the >>>>>>>>>>> "ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
"time"?
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so >>>>>>>>>> would sag in something like a catenary.
Catenary arch ... inverted catenary ... but why would the "whole" >>>>>>>>> catenary arch not "drop" when "released"?
This hypothetical but impossible object would drop. Bits would also stretch.
Do not the bottom "ends/edges" move at the same "time" ("stretch" or >>>>>> not)? [At least at the absolute "edges".]
Maybe?
"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of >>>>> the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same >>>>> "time"?'
This implies a totally rigid body of quite a length. Not possible.
That's not what my wife says..
Just watch some of the commercials about Peyroni's disease
The "body" need not be "totally rigid" ... it is hanging as rigid as it
"is" ... when released, are you saying the "ends" react "differently" to
the downward gravity?
If you believe the ends react differently, please tell me what is the
cause of the difference and is it measurable.
If it is not rigid, then some parts will be closer to the centre of the Earth than others. Thus, those pieces which are closer will be subject to a very slightly higher acceleration. The difference might be measurable with the latest tools.
On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 4:35:51 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:.
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 5:59:42 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 11:07:31 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/22/2023 3:52 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:07:00 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/20/2023 8:26 AM, da pickle wrote:
On 3/19/2023 7:25 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Tim?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>> On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Thanks for responding.
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back
end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to
the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"? >>>>>>>>>>>
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a
particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a
wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion
when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it
would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity
in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for
that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between
half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than
most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the >>>>>>>>> distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such >>>>>>>>> thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet
getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail
moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted
faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body.
agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move
when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits
it.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or
compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when
released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to
move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using
the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices
first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same
acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth.
The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure. >>>>> Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the
the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
"time"?
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so
would sag in something like a catenary.
Catenary arch ... inverted catenary ... but why would the "whole" >>> catenary arch not "drop" when "released"?
This hypothetical but impossible object would drop. Bits would also stretch.Why is the object "impossible"?
Do not the bottom "ends/edges" move at the same "time" ("stretch" or not)? [At least at the absolute "edges".]
Maybe?'Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the "ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same "time"?'
This implies a totally rigid body of quite a length. Not possible..
That's not what my wife says..Just watch some of the commercials about Peyroni's disease
On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 9:01:43 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:.
On 3/24/2023 7:34 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 4:35:51 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 5:59:42 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>> On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 11:07:31 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 3/22/2023 3:52 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
.'Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the >>> "ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of >>> the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the sameOn Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:07:00 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Why is the object "impossible"?
On 3/20/2023 8:26 AM, da pickle wrote:
On 3/19/2023 7:25 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Tim?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move
On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Thanks for responding.
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body?
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back
end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to
the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a
particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a
wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion
when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it
would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity
in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for
that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between
half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than
most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet
getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail
moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted
faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body. >>>>>>>>>>> If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits
it.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or
compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when
released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to
move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using
the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices
first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same >>>>>>>>>> acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth.
The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure. >>>>>>>>> Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the
the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
"time"?
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so
would sag in something like a catenary.
Catenary arch ... inverted catenary ... but why would the "whole" >>>>>>> catenary arch not "drop" when "released"?
This hypothetical but impossible object would drop. Bits would also stretch.
Do not the bottom "ends/edges" move at the same "time" ("stretch" or >>>> not)? [At least at the absolute "edges".]
Maybe?
"time"?'
This implies a totally rigid body of quite a length. Not possible.
That's not what my wife says..
Just watch some of the commercials about Peyroni's diseaseI am sorry you have chosen to leave this thought experiment.
The "body" need not be "totally rigid" ... it is hanging as rigid as it "is" ... when released, are you saying the "ends" react "differently" to the downward gravity?
If you believe the ends react differently, please tell me what is the cause of the difference and is it measurable.If it is not rigid, then some parts will be closer to the centre of the Earth than others. Thus, those pieces which are closer will be subject to a very slightly higher acceleration. The difference might be measurable with the latest tools.
On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 8:48:17 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 9:01:43 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/24/2023 7:34 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 4:35:51 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 5:59:42 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>> On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 11:07:31 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 3/22/2023 3:52 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
'Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the >>> "ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center ofOn Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:07:00 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Why is the object "impossible"?
On 3/20/2023 8:26 AM, da pickle wrote:
On 3/19/2023 7:25 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Tim?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move
On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Thanks for responding.
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back
end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to
the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a
particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a
wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion
when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it
would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity
in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for
that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between
half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than
most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such
thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet
getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail
moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted
faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body. >>>>>>>>>>> If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits
it.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or
compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when
released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to
move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using
the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices
first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same >>>>>>>>>> acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth.
The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure. >>>>>>>>> Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the
the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
"time"?
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so
would sag in something like a catenary.
Catenary arch ... inverted catenary ... but why would the "whole"
catenary arch not "drop" when "released"?
This hypothetical but impossible object would drop. Bits would also stretch.
Do not the bottom "ends/edges" move at the same "time" ("stretch" or
not)? [At least at the absolute "edges".]
Maybe?
the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
"time"?'
This implies a totally rigid body of quite a length. Not possible. >> .
That's not what my wife says..
Just watch some of the commercials about Peyroni's diseaseI am sorry you have chosen to leave this thought experiment.
The "body" need not be "totally rigid" ... it is hanging as rigid as it "is" ... when released, are you saying the "ends" react "differently" to the downward gravity?
.If you believe the ends react differently, please tell me what is the cause of the difference and is it measurable.If it is not rigid, then some parts will be closer to the centre of the Earth than others. Thus, those pieces which are closer will be subject to a very slightly higher acceleration. The difference might be measurable with the latest tools.
Won't the position of our sun and moon make a difference?
On 3/25/2023 10:48 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 9:01:43 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/24/2023 7:34 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 4:35:51 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:I am sorry you have chosen to leave this thought experiment.
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 5:59:42 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>> On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 11:07:31 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 3/22/2023 3:52 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
'Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the >>>>> "ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of >>>>> the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the sameOn Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:07:00 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Why is the object "impossible"?
On 3/20/2023 8:26 AM, da pickle wrote:
On 3/19/2023 7:25 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Tim?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move
On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Thanks for responding.
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back
end
moves at the same time as the front end?
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to
the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a
particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a
wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion
when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it
would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity
in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for
that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between
half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than
most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet
getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail
moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted
faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body. >>>>>>>>>>>>> If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits
it.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or
compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when
released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to
move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using
the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices
first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same >>>>>>>>>>>> acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth.
The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure. >>>>>>>>>>> Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the
the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
"time"?
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so
would sag in something like a catenary.
Catenary arch ... inverted catenary ... but why would the "whole" >>>>>>>>> catenary arch not "drop" when "released"?
This hypothetical but impossible object would drop. Bits would also stretch.
Do not the bottom "ends/edges" move at the same "time" ("stretch" or >>>>>> not)? [At least at the absolute "edges".]
Maybe?
"time"?'
This implies a totally rigid body of quite a length. Not possible. >>>> .
That's not what my wife says..
Just watch some of the commercials about Peyroni's disease
The "body" need not be "totally rigid" ... it is hanging as rigid as it >> "is" ... when released, are you saying the "ends" react "differently" to >> the downward gravity?
If you believe the ends react differently, please tell me what is the
cause of the difference and is it measurable.
If it is not rigid, then some parts will be closer to the centre of the Earth than others. Thus, those pieces which are closer will be subject to a very slightly higher acceleration. The difference might be measurable with the latest tools.Thanks for your response. I realize that no object is "rigid" as to
every atom ... however, the atoms (or sub stuff) at the very "bottom" of every object CAN be exactly the same distance from the "center" of the Earth.
My question is "do all objects exactly the same distance from the
center" MOVE at "exactly" the same moment/time?
Would that movement downward allow the movement to be measured? For
example, if there was a wall behind the object and the sun was shinning toward the object casting a shadow on the wall ... would the shadow (the EDGE) move DOWN all at once ... at the same time?
I am not asking (yet) about measuring anything.
I thank you again for your thoughts.
On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 1:03:34 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/25/2023 10:48 AM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 9:01:43 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Thanks for your response. I realize that no object is "rigid" as to
On 3/24/2023 7:34 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 4:35:51 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:I am sorry you have chosen to leave this thought experiment.
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 5:59:42 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>>> On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 11:07:31 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>> On 3/22/2023 3:52 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
'Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the >>>>>>> "ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of >>>>>>> the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same >>>>>>> "time"?'On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:07:00 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 3/20/2023 8:26 AM, da pickle wrote:Why is the object "impossible"?
On 3/19/2023 7:25 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:Tim?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:06:34 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/18/2023 10:11 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:"ends" of the pipe are "exactly" the same distance from the center of
On 3/17/2023 7:03 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 4:23:37 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:agree might be correct) ... that means the "other" end does NOT move
On 3/17/2023 3:09 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:44:06 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Thanks for responding.
Is there such a "thing" as a "rigid" body? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That is ... can there be a "stick" on which I push and the back
end
moves at the same time as the front end? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Or does it take "time" for a "wave" to move from the front to
the back?
How much time, if not zero?
The stick is a "solid" ... or is there no such "thing"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[I know we can prove light is a wave (excluding that it is a
particle)
... and we can prove it is a particle (excluding that it is a
wave).]
No, there is not. That is what strain measures, the distortion
when an object is put under stress. I do not know how long it
would take.
A slightly simpler question is: What is the speed of electricity
in a wire?
We might consider the wire first. I think "it depends" works for
that
one. Electricity moves through a wire about somewhere between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> half and
almost the same speed as light in a vacuum. Which is quite fast. A
more interesting question is how long can the wire be (practically
speaking) for useful transmission ... I think it is shorter than
most
folks think.
Back to the stick ... I think I understand what you are saying about
strain and distortion, but how long does it take for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distortion to
get to the other end of the stick?
[Replace the stick with a "ridged body" or is there no such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing. Maybe
a steel pole and pull is rather than push it ... maybe a magnet
getting
closer to one end of a nail and measure whether the whole nail
moves at
"once". Such stuff like that ... can information be transmitted
faster
than light?]
Yes, there is no such thing as a totally rigid body. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If indeed there is no such thing as a rigid body (totally ... which I
when the "other" end is struck. Imagine a nail when the hammer hits
it.
What is the formula for the delay? Similar to electricity in a wire or
compared to the speed of light?
How "stiff" is the "stiffest" possible?
Imagine a stiff ruler held vertically about the ground ... when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> released
to fall toward the ground ... does "gravity" cause both ends to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> move at
"exactly" the same time?
Lots of questions. I suspect that a model could be constructed using
the strain tensor, and imagining the object as a set of small slices
first contracting, then elastically expanding.
The ends of the ruler are not subject to the exact same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> acceleration, since one end is closer to the center of the Earth.
The difference, however, is probably impossible to measure. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, let us have a pipe (curved "exactly" like the earth) ... the
the earth. When released, do not "both ends" move at "exactly" the same
"time"?
You couldn't have that either. Said pipe cannot be rigid enough, so
would sag in something like a catenary.
Catenary arch ... inverted catenary ... but why would the "whole" >>>>>>>>>>> catenary arch not "drop" when "released"?
This hypothetical but impossible object would drop. Bits would also stretch.
Do not the bottom "ends/edges" move at the same "time" ("stretch" or >>>>>>>> not)? [At least at the absolute "edges".]
Maybe?
This implies a totally rigid body of quite a length. Not possible. >>>>>> .
That's not what my wife says..
Just watch some of the commercials about Peyroni's disease
The "body" need not be "totally rigid" ... it is hanging as rigid as it >>>> "is" ... when released, are you saying the "ends" react "differently" to >>>> the downward gravity?
If you believe the ends react differently, please tell me what is the
cause of the difference and is it measurable.
If it is not rigid, then some parts will be closer to the centre of the Earth than others. Thus, those pieces which are closer will be subject to a very slightly higher acceleration. The difference might be measurable with the latest tools.
every atom ... however, the atoms (or sub stuff) at the very "bottom" of
every object CAN be exactly the same distance from the "center" of the
Earth.
My question is "do all objects exactly the same distance from the
center" MOVE at "exactly" the same moment/time?
Would that movement downward allow the movement to be measured? For
example, if there was a wall behind the object and the sun was shinning
toward the object casting a shadow on the wall ... would the shadow (the
EDGE) move DOWN all at once ... at the same time?
I am not asking (yet) about measuring anything.
I thank you again for your thoughts.
Define "exactly". There are always tiny variations in the local field.
Can information go to two separate places and be "received" at the same "moment"? If I shout at two people standing 100 feet apart from each
other but each also exactly 100 from me ... do they both "hear" the same message at the "same" time? In a perfect world.
Maybe I should just prepare my trip and think about it while I am gone. Thanks again for your thoughts.
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:21:09 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
<snip>
Can information go to two separate places and be "received" at the same
"moment"? If I shout at two people standing 100 feet apart from each
other but each also exactly 100 from me ... do they both "hear" the same
message at the "same" time? In a perfect world.
Maybe I should just prepare my trip and think about it while I am gone.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
How could you know? The receivers need to communicate either with each other or back to you to check.
On 3/27/2023 12:38 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:21:09 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
<snip>
Can information go to two separate places and be "received" at the same >> "moment"? If I shout at two people standing 100 feet apart from each
other but each also exactly 100 from me ... do they both "hear" the same >> message at the "same" time? In a perfect world.
Maybe I should just prepare my trip and think about it while I am gone. >> Thanks again for your thoughts.
How could you know? The receivers need to communicate either with each other or back to you to check.Just think about it ... it is a thought thing.
[For example, they have VERY accurate watches.]
[The exact sound lets a balloon float up.]
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 2:52:05 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/27/2023 12:38 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:21:09 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Just think about it ... it is a thought thing.
<snip>
Can information go to two separate places and be "received" at the same >>>> "moment"? If I shout at two people standing 100 feet apart from each
other but each also exactly 100 from me ... do they both "hear" the same >>>> message at the "same" time? In a perfect world.
Maybe I should just prepare my trip and think about it while I am gone. >>>> Thanks again for your thoughts.
How could you know? The receivers need to communicate either with each other or back to you to check.
[For example, they have VERY accurate watches.]
[The exact sound lets a balloon float up.]
The answer is still probably not, depending on how exact you want the results.
On 3/27/2023 7:20 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 2:52:05 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/27/2023 12:38 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:21:09 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Just think about it ... it is a thought thing.
<snip>
Can information go to two separate places and be "received" at the same >>>> "moment"? If I shout at two people standing 100 feet apart from each >>>> other but each also exactly 100 from me ... do they both "hear" the same
message at the "same" time? In a perfect world.
Maybe I should just prepare my trip and think about it while I am gone. >>>> Thanks again for your thoughts.
How could you know? The receivers need to communicate either with each other or back to you to check.
[For example, they have VERY accurate watches.]
[The exact sound lets a balloon float up.]
The answer is still probably not, depending on how exact you want the results.I guess "close enough" is as good a response as any.
[It was a "theoretical" question. Thanks again.]
On Wednesday, March 29, 2023 at 7:21:53 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/27/2023 7:20 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 2:52:05 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:I guess "close enough" is as good a response as any.
On 3/27/2023 12:38 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:21:09 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:Just think about it ... it is a thought thing.
<snip>
Can information go to two separate places and be "received" at the same >>>>>> "moment"? If I shout at two people standing 100 feet apart from each >>>>>> other but each also exactly 100 from me ... do they both "hear" the same >>>>>> message at the "same" time? In a perfect world.
Maybe I should just prepare my trip and think about it while I am gone. >>>>>> Thanks again for your thoughts.
How could you know? The receivers need to communicate either with each other or back to you to check.
[For example, they have VERY accurate watches.]
[The exact sound lets a balloon float up.]
The answer is still probably not, depending on how exact you want the results.
[It was a "theoretical" question. Thanks again.]
Not a problem, but you used the word "exact", which has quite a precise meaning. If taken literally, the answer is almost certainly no.
On 3/29/2023 7:22 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Wednesday, March 29, 2023 at 7:21:53 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/27/2023 7:20 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 2:52:05 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:I guess "close enough" is as good a response as any.
On 3/27/2023 12:38 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:21:09 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>Just think about it ... it is a thought thing.
<snip>
Can information go to two separate places and be "received" at the same
"moment"? If I shout at two people standing 100 feet apart from each >>>>>> other but each also exactly 100 from me ... do they both "hear" the same
message at the "same" time? In a perfect world.
Maybe I should just prepare my trip and think about it while I am gone.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
How could you know? The receivers need to communicate either with each other or back to you to check.
[For example, they have VERY accurate watches.]
[The exact sound lets a balloon float up.]
The answer is still probably not, depending on how exact you want the results.
[It was a "theoretical" question. Thanks again.]
Not a problem, but you used the word "exact", which has quite a precise meaning. If taken literally, the answer is almost certainly no.The "theoretical" question uses the word "exact" because that is the assumption being questioned ... maybe it needs to include all things
being "exact".
The "entire" "edge" of the "thing" is "exactly" subject to some
attraction ("gravity"?) at "exactly" the same time ... so are both
"ends" moving at exactly the same exact time (theoretically).
Is light a particle or a wave? I wrote (and published) some papers on
off axis signatures of laser beams in the atmosphere and it is a
difficult subject. [Many years ago we were quite interested in knowing
the current development of Russian high energy lasers.]
On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 1:10:25 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/29/2023 7:22 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Wednesday, March 29, 2023 at 7:21:53 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:The "theoretical" question uses the word "exact" because that is the
On 3/27/2023 7:20 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 2:52:05 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:I guess "close enough" is as good a response as any.
On 3/27/2023 12:38 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:21:09 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>Just think about it ... it is a thought thing.
<snip>
Can information go to two separate places and be "received" at the same
"moment"? If I shout at two people standing 100 feet apart from each >>>>>>>> other but each also exactly 100 from me ... do they both "hear" the same
message at the "same" time? In a perfect world.
Maybe I should just prepare my trip and think about it while I am gone.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
How could you know? The receivers need to communicate either with each other or back to you to check.
[For example, they have VERY accurate watches.]
[The exact sound lets a balloon float up.]
The answer is still probably not, depending on how exact you want the results.
[It was a "theoretical" question. Thanks again.]
Not a problem, but you used the word "exact", which has quite a precise meaning. If taken literally, the answer is almost certainly no.
assumption being questioned ... maybe it needs to include all things
being "exact".
The "entire" "edge" of the "thing" is "exactly" subject to some
attraction ("gravity"?) at "exactly" the same time ... so are both
"ends" moving at exactly the same exact time (theoretically).
Is light a particle or a wave? I wrote (and published) some papers on
off axis signatures of laser beams in the atmosphere and it is a
difficult subject. [Many years ago we were quite interested in knowing
the current development of Russian high energy lasers.]
But that's a difference between Engineering and Physics. Nothing is "exactly" the same.
On 3/30/2023 12:24 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 1:10:25 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote:
On 3/29/2023 7:22 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Wednesday, March 29, 2023 at 7:21:53 AM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>> On 3/27/2023 7:20 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:The "theoretical" question uses the word "exact" because that is the
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 2:52:05 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>> On 3/27/2023 12:38 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:I guess "close enough" is as good a response as any.
On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:21:09 PM UTC-4, da pickle wrote: >>>>>>>Just think about it ... it is a thought thing.
<snip>
Can information go to two separate places and be "received" at the same
"moment"? If I shout at two people standing 100 feet apart from each
other but each also exactly 100 from me ... do they both "hear" the same
message at the "same" time? In a perfect world.
Maybe I should just prepare my trip and think about it while I am gone.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
How could you know? The receivers need to communicate either with each other or back to you to check.
[For example, they have VERY accurate watches.]
[The exact sound lets a balloon float up.]
The answer is still probably not, depending on how exact you want the results.
[It was a "theoretical" question. Thanks again.]
Not a problem, but you used the word "exact", which has quite a precise meaning. If taken literally, the answer is almost certainly no.
assumption being questioned ... maybe it needs to include all things
being "exact".
The "entire" "edge" of the "thing" is "exactly" subject to some
attraction ("gravity"?) at "exactly" the same time ... so are both
"ends" moving at exactly the same exact time (theoretically).
Is light a particle or a wave? I wrote (and published) some papers on
off axis signatures of laser beams in the atmosphere and it is a
difficult subject. [Many years ago we were quite interested in knowing
the current development of Russian high energy lasers.]
But that's a difference between Engineering and Physics. Nothing is "exactly" the same.You might be correct ... make it better than the absolutely least "expensive" (close enough) is good for most engineering. However, you
are incorrect that Physics "theories" do not make "assumptions" about
what is "exactly" correct. If that is what you mean by what you wrote.
If that is not what you mean, please elaborate.
I do not believe that either an engineer or a physicist believes they
can determine something is "exactly" correct ... only that they can get close. Both have different purposes in their conclusions about what
might be the "truth". Depending on the definitions of the words they
might use.
Ask both whether light is a particle or a wave ... what answers do you
get? In my experience, the engineer does not care and the physicist can prove that it is a wave and cannot be a particle and can also prove it
is a particle and cannot be a wave.
I have been fascinated by delivering "information" FASTER than the speed
of light for a long, long time.
Even Einstein had his "spooky action at a distance".
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