• A riskytard classic

    From BillB@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 2 10:21:34 2023
    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. It is not better that all felony suspects die than that they escape. Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to the
    officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so. It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little late or
    are a little slower afoot does not always justify killing the suspect. A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead." -- Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)

    Of course, riskytard thinks citizens lose all their constitutional rights when the mayor of Bumfuk, USA unilaterally declares martial law, which riskytard claims is well within his or her authority to do. That's what he said, so it must be true!
    Riskytard has a high IQ, y'know. He said so himself. Such a brilliant legal mind!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to BillB on Mon Jan 2 11:02:14 2023
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:21:37 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is
    constitutionally unreasonable.
    .

    Well that’s a new one for me. But I’ve been out of the cop business for a long time.
    Tell me what “Constitutionally unreasonable” means and what powers does it have?

    .
    It is not better that all felony suspects die than that they escape. Where the suspect poses no immediate
    threat to the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not
    justify the use of deadly force to do so.
    .

    Duh!
    .

    It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little
    late or are a little slower afoot does not always justify killing the suspect.

    Duh! Again.
    .

    A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead." -- Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)
    .

    More Duh!
    .

    Of course, riskytard thinks citizens lose all their constitutional rights when the mayor of Bumfuk, USA unilaterally declares martial law, which riskytard claims is well within his or her authority to do. That's what he said, so it must be true!
    Riskytard has a high IQ, y'know. He said so himself. Such a brilliant legal mind!

    Which has nothing to do with shooting a flee felon.

    “If, in the officer’s judgement, a fleeing felon can be a danger to the officer or others (might shoot or
    kill them) the officer is justified in shooting the fleeing felon.”

    Yea, them ain’t the exact words. But yes, you resist arrest and can be a lethal danger to the officer or
    others, you an be shot.

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/can-police-use-lethal-force-fleeing-suspect

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BillB@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Mon Jan 2 11:52:21 2023
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:02:17 AM UTC-8, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:21:37 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is
    constitutionally unreasonable.
    .

    Well that’s a new one for me. But I’ve been out of the cop business for a long time.
    Tell me what “Constitutionally unreasonable” means and what powers does it have?

    It means a police officer would be violating a suspect's constitutional rights to use lethal force against him absent the suspect posing an imminent risk of serious physical harm to someone.



    “If, in the officer’s judgement, a fleeing felon can be a danger to the officer or others (might shoot or
    kill them) the officer is justified in shooting the fleeing felon.”


    That is not correct.

    Yea, them ain’t the exact words. But yes, you resist arrest and can be a lethal danger to the officer or
    others, you an be shot.

    The suspect does not have to pose a "lethal danger" to be shot. That is not the test. The point is that law enforcement has no right to shoot a looter running away from the Dollar General with an armful of trinkets, contrary what riskytard believes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From risky biz@21:1/5 to BillB on Mon Jan 2 12:34:49 2023
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:21:37 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. It is not better that all felony suspects die than that they escape. Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to the
    officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so. It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little late or
    are a little slower afoot does not always justify killing the suspect. A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead." -- Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)



    ~ Of course, riskytard thinks citizens lose all their constitutional rights when the mayor of Bumfuk, USA unilaterally declares martial law, which riskytard claims is well within his or her authority to do. That's what he said, so it must be true!
    Riskytard has a high IQ, y'know. He said so himself. Such a brilliant legal mind!

    This fiction you're trying to whip up by starting a new thread is amusing. What I (in reality) think and said can be read in these 4 links:

    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/bmvLvR3FCgAJ https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/C9EG_S4QCwAJ https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/aS1zLnlUCwAJ https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/8P09bVGoCwAJ

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From risky biz@21:1/5 to BillB on Mon Jan 2 12:38:23 2023
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:52:24 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:02:17 AM UTC-8, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:21:37 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is
    constitutionally unreasonable.
    .

    Well that’s a new one for me. But I’ve been out of the cop business for a long time.
    Tell me what “Constitutionally unreasonable” means and what powers does it have?
    It means a police officer would be violating a suspect's constitutional rights to use lethal force against him absent the suspect posing an imminent risk of serious physical harm to someone.
    “If, in the officer’s judgement, a fleeing felon can be a danger to the officer or others (might shoot or
    kill them) the officer is justified in shooting the fleeing felon.”

    That is not correct.
    Yea, them ain’t the exact words. But yes, you resist arrest and can be a lethal danger to the officer or
    others, you an be shot.


    ~ The suspect does not have to pose a "lethal danger" to be shot. That is not the test. The point is that law enforcement has no right to shoot a looter running away from the Dollar General with an armful of trinkets,


    Was anyone dumb enough to not notice the clever jump from 'lethal danger' to 'armful of trinkets'.


    ~ contrary what riskytard believes.


    This fiction you're trying to whip up by starting a new thread is amusing. What I (in reality) think and said can be read in these 4 links:

    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/bmvLvR3FCgAJ https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/C9EG_S4QCwAJ https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/aS1zLnlUCwAJ https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/8P09bVGoCwAJ

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From risky biz@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 2 12:47:02 2023
    ~ On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:52:24 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:

    ~ < a load of Flood-The -Zone bullshit >


    BTW, numbskull- the issue has no relation whatsoever to the value of what a looting mob is 'stealing' or to what the monetary value of that is in relation to their lives. The issue is public order, the rule of law, and the rights of all American citizens
    being violated wholesale by a mob bent on rapine, which, big surprise, doesn't give a shit about the U.S. Constitution. They would use it for toilet paper if given the chance.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BillB@21:1/5 to risky biz on Mon Jan 2 12:59:14 2023
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 12:47:06 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
    ~ On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:52:24 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:

    ~ < a load of Flood-The -Zone bullshit >


    BTW, numbskull- the issue has no relation whatsoever to the value of what a looting mob is 'stealing' or to what the monetary value of that is in relation to their lives. The issue is public order, the rule of law, and the rights of all American
    citizens being violated wholesale by a mob bent on rapine, which, big surprise, doesn't give a shit about the U.S. Constitution. They would use it for toilet paper if given the chance.

    The issue is that you don't understand constitutional law.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BillB@21:1/5 to risky biz on Mon Jan 2 13:03:16 2023
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 12:34:52 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:21:37 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. It is not better that all felony suspects die than that they escape. Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to
    the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so. It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little late
    or are a little slower afoot does not always justify killing the suspect. A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead." -- Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)

    ~ Of course, riskytard thinks citizens lose all their constitutional rights when the mayor of Bumfuk, USA unilaterally declares martial law, which riskytard claims is well within his or her authority to do. That's what he said, so it must be true!
    Riskytard has a high IQ, y'know. He said so himself. Such a brilliant legal mind!

    This fiction you're trying to whip up by starting a new thread is amusing. What I (in reality) think and said can be read in these 4 links:

    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/bmvLvR3FCgAJ https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/C9EG_S4QCwAJ https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/aS1zLnlUCwAJ https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/8P09bVGoCwAJ

    You said exactly what I said you said. I quoted binding constitutional law and you specifically said none of it would apply under martial law, which you further asserted can be declared by "municipal authorities," so clearly any mayor would qualify (not
    to mention anyone else who might be considered a "municipal authority"). You just aren't very bright and don't bother to think before you shoot your mouth off.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From risky biz@21:1/5 to BillB on Mon Jan 2 14:39:13 2023
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 1:03:20 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 12:34:52 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:21:37 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. It is not better that all felony suspects die than that they escape. Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to
    the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so. It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little late
    or are a little slower afoot does not always justify killing the suspect. A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead." -- Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)

    ~ Of course, riskytard thinks citizens lose all their constitutional rights when the mayor of Bumfuk, USA unilaterally declares martial law, which riskytard claims is well within his or her authority to do. That's what he said, so it must be true!
    Riskytard has a high IQ, y'know. He said so himself. Such a brilliant legal mind!


    ~ ~ This fiction you're trying to whip up by starting a new thread is amusing. What I (in reality) think and said can be read in these 4 links:

    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/bmvLvR3FCgAJ
    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/C9EG_S4QCwAJ
    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/aS1zLnlUCwAJ
    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/8P09bVGoCwAJ


    You said exactly what I said you said.


    No, I said what I said which anyone can read by briefly perusing the 4 links I provided above. I'll rest my case on what I actually said which makes what you say I said irrelevant. EVERYONE knows you're a pathological liar.


    ~ I quoted binding constitutional law and you specifically said none of it would apply under martial law, which you further asserted can be declared by "municipal authorities," so clearly any mayor would qualify (not to mention anyone else who might be
    considered a "municipal authority"). You just aren't very bright and don't bother to think before you shoot your mouth off.


    Don't look now, dummy, but you've already started off the new year looking about as intelligent as a yard troll.
    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.dzCHwBVWWGgRNVEh1FN08wHaE8%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=d0e00493338cb2bcf9868377e0b4c6fc2f39fde419215419e23082b96ddea7fc&ipo=images

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to BillB on Tue Jan 3 11:16:57 2023
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:52:24 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:02:17 AM UTC-8, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:21:37 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is
    constitutionally unreasonable.
    .

    Well that’s a new one for me. But I’ve been out of the cop business for a long time.
    Tell me what “Constitutionally unreasonable” means and what powers does it have?
    .

    It means a police officer would be violating a suspect's constitutional rights to use lethal force
    against him absent the suspect posing an imminent risk of serious physical harm to someone.
    .

    Well that’s as given. I’m still a little vague on “Constitutionally unreasonable.” I know ‘constitutional right’
    and ‘against the constitution;’ “I’ve just not heard “Constitutionally unreasonable” use in court. Rather than
    dig into something that weird from you, I’ll just let it go and have another glass of wine…
    .

    “If, in the officer’s judgement, a fleeing felon can be a danger to the officer or others (might shoot or
    kill them) the officer is justified in shooting the fleeing felon.”

    That is not correct.
    .

    Yea, actually it is. Or it was during my POST.
    .

    Yea, them ain’t the exact words. But yes, you resist arrest and can be a lethal danger to the officer
    or others, you can be shot.
    .

    The suspect does not have to pose a "lethal danger" to be shot. That is not the test. The point is that law
    enforcement has no right to shoot a looter running away from the Dollar General with an armful of trinkets,
    contrary what riskytard believes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BillB@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Tue Jan 3 12:56:52 2023
    On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 11:17:00 AM UTC-8, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:52:24 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:02:17 AM UTC-8, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:21:37 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is
    constitutionally unreasonable.
    .

    Well that’s a new one for me. But I’ve been out of the cop business for a long time.
    Tell me what “Constitutionally unreasonable” means and what powers does it have?
    .
    It means a police officer would be violating a suspect's constitutional rights to use lethal force
    against him absent the suspect posing an imminent risk of serious physical harm to someone.
    .

    Well that’s as given. I’m still a little vague on “Constitutionally unreasonable.” I know ‘constitutional right’
    and ‘against the constitution;’ “I’ve just not heard “Constitutionally unreasonable” use in court. Rather than
    dig into something that weird from you, I’ll just let it go and have another glass of wine…
    .

    “If, in the officer’s judgement, a fleeing felon can be a danger to the officer or others (might shoot or
    kill them) the officer is justified in shooting the fleeing felon.”

    That is not correct.
    .

    Yea, actually it is. Or it was during my POST.

    No, it's not a subjective test, as you worded it. It's the judgment of a reasonable officer in his or her place. An unreasonable cop could believe virtually anyone is a danger for one reason or another. That would make the rule pointless. No cop is going
    to admit that he didn't think the guy was a danger but he unloaded on him anyway just out of frustration or anger.

    Yea, them ain’t the exact words. But yes, you resist arrest and can be a lethal danger to the officer
    or others, you can be shot.
    .

    The suspect does not have to pose a "lethal danger" to be shot. That is not the test. The point is that law
    enforcement has no right to shoot a looter running away from the Dollar General with an armful of trinkets,
    contrary what riskytard believes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to BillB on Wed Jan 4 07:55:25 2023
    On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 12:56:55 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 11:17:00 AM UTC-8, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:52:24 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:02:17 AM UTC-8, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:21:37 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is
    constitutionally unreasonable.
    .

    Well that’s a new one for me. But I’ve been out of the cop business for a long time.
    Tell me what “Constitutionally unreasonable” means and what powers does it have?
    .
    It means a police officer would be violating a suspect's constitutional rights to use lethal force
    against him absent the suspect posing an imminent risk of serious physical harm to someone.
    .

    Well that’s as given. I’m still a little vague on “Constitutionally unreasonable.” I know ‘constitutional right’
    and ‘against the constitution;’ “I’ve just not heard “Constitutionally unreasonable” use in court. Rather than
    dig into something that weird from you, I’ll just let it go and have another glass of wine…
    .

    I didn't see any more on your "Constitutionally unreasonable" statement. Is this a legal position?
    A part of a legal finding? A legal argument?
    .
    .
    .

    .

    “If, in the officer’s judgement, a fleeing felon can be a danger to the officer or others (might shoot or
    kill them) the officer is justified in shooting the fleeing felon.”

    That is not correct.
    .

    Yea, actually it is. Or it was during my POST.
    .

    No, it's not a subjective test, as you worded it.

    Well, I don't believe that was my wording, but it's my argument and is correct as I said.
    Unless that's a part of your - or some finding - "Constitutionally unreasonable."
    .
    .

    It's the judgment of a reasonable officer in his or her place.

    Like I said, and was taught in POST.
    .
    .

    An unreasonable cop could believe virtually anyone is a danger for one reason or another.
    That would make the rule pointless.
    .

    No; it would make the officer wrong. The rule is still good. Misusing a rule does not invalidate the rule.
    .
    .

    No cop is going to admit that he didn't think the guy was a danger but he unloaded on him anyway
    just out of frustration or anger.
    .

    No shit..
    .

    Yea, them ain’t the exact words. But yes, you resist arrest and can be a lethal danger to the officer
    or others, you can be shot.
    .

    The suspect does not have to pose a "lethal danger" to be shot. That is not the test. The point is that law
    enforcement has no right to shoot a looter running away from the Dollar General with an armful of trinkets,
    contrary what riskytard believes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mossingen@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 9 00:29:12 2023
    "BillB" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects,
    whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. It is not
    better that all felony suspects die than that they escape. Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so. It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little late or are a little slower afoot does not always justify killing the suspect. A police officer
    may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead." -- Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)

    Of course, riskytard thinks citizens lose all their constitutional rights
    when the mayor of Bumfuk, USA unilaterally declares martial law, which riskytard claims is well within his or her authority to do. That's what he said, so it must be true! Riskytard has a high IQ, y'know. He said so
    himself. Such a brilliant legal mind!


    ___________


    As I recall, Garner was a civil rights case, not even a criminal case.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BillB@21:1/5 to Mossingen on Sun Jan 8 23:14:24 2023
    On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 10:29:20 PM UTC-8, Mossingen wrote:
    "BillB" wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. It is not better that all felony suspects die than that they escape. Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so. It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little late or are a little slower afoot does not always justify killing the suspect. A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead." -- Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)

    Of course, riskytard thinks citizens lose all their constitutional rights when the mayor of Bumfuk, USA unilaterally declares martial law, which riskytard claims is well within his or her authority to do. That's what he said, so it must be true! Riskytard has a high IQ, y'know. He said so himself. Such a brilliant legal mind!
    ___________


    As I recall, Garner was a civil rights case, not even a criminal case.

    It was, but the Court still held that Garner had a constitutional right not to be shot. I don't see why it would matter if it was a civil or criminal case.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mossingen@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Mon Jan 9 00:30:57 2023
    .
    "BillB" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 11:17:00 AM UTC-8, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:52:24 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:02:17 AM UTC-8, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:21:37 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony
    suspects, whatever the circumstances, is
    constitutionally unreasonable.
    .

    Well that’s a new one for me. But I’ve been out of the cop business for a long time.
    Tell me what “Constitutionally unreasonable” means and what powers does it have?
    .
    It means a police officer would be violating a suspect's constitutional rights to use lethal force
    against him absent the suspect posing an imminent risk of serious
    physical harm to someone.
    .

    Well that’s as given. I’m still a little vague on “Constitutionally unreasonable.” I know ‘constitutional right’
    and ‘against the constitution;’ “I’ve just not heard “Constitutionally
    unreasonable” use in court. Rather than
    dig into something that weird from you, I’ll just let it go and have another glass of wine…
    .

    “If, in the officer’s judgement, a fleeing felon can be a danger to the officer or others (might shoot or
    kill them) the officer is justified in shooting the fleeing felon.”

    That is not correct.
    .

    Yea, actually it is. Or it was during my POST.

    No, it's not a subjective test, as you worded it. It's the judgment of a reasonable officer in his or her place. An unreasonable cop could believe virtually anyone is a danger for one reason or another. That would make the rule pointless. No cop is going to admit that he didn't think the guy was a danger but he unloaded on him anyway just out of frustration or anger.

    Yea, them ain’t the exact words. But yes, you resist arrest and can be a lethal danger to the officer
    or others, you can be shot.
    .

    The suspect does not have to pose a "lethal danger" to be shot. That is
    not the test. The point is that law
    enforcement has no right to shoot a looter running away from the Dollar General with an armful of trinkets,
    contrary what riskytard believes.


    __________



    Yes, it's always an objective test. I think you're wasting your time here, Bill.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to Mossingen on Mon Jan 9 11:12:52 2023
    On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 10:29:20 PM UTC-8, Mossingen wrote:
    "BillB" wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. It is not better that all felony suspects die than that they escape.
    .

    That's why it's not used on "'all' felony suspects."
    .
    .


    Where the suspect
    poses no immediate threat to the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so. It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little late or are a little slower afoot does not always justify killing the suspect. A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead." --
    .

    Yea, on "nondangerous suspects."
    .

    Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)

    Of course, riskytard thinks citizens lose all their constitutional rights when the mayor of Bumfuk, USA unilaterally declares martial law, which riskytard claims is well within his or her authority to do. That's what he said, so it must be true! Riskytard has a high IQ, y'know. He said so himself. Such a brilliant legal mind!
    ___________


    As I recall, Garner was a civil rights case, not even a criminal case.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From risky biz@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 9 11:19:42 2023
    ~ On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 11:14:28 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:

    ~ It was, but the Court still held that Garner had a constitutional right not to be shot. I don't see why it would matter if it was a civil or criminal case.


    'Martial law is the imposition of direct military control of normal civil functions or 👉suspension of civil law by a government👈, especially in response to an emergency where civil forces are overwhelmed..'

    'The martial law concept in the United States is closely tied with the right of habeas corpus, which is in essence the right to a hearing on lawful imprisonment, or more broadly, the supervision of law enforcement by the judiciary. The ability to suspend
    habeas corpus is related to the imposition of martial law.[39] Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution states, "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may
    require it.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law

    The Posse Comitatus Act does not restrict a state government
    'The Act does not prevent the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor.'

    👉'The title of the Act comes from the legal concept of posse comitatus, the authority under which a county sheriff, or other law officer, can conscript any able-bodied person to assist in keeping the peace.'👈
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act


    'The Great Chicago Fire was a conflagration that burned in the American city of Chicago during October 8–10, 1871.

    On October 11, 1871, General Philip H. Sheridan came quickly to the aid of the city and was placed in charge by 👉a proclamation, given by mayor Roswell B. Mason👈:

    "The Preservation of the Good Order and Peace of the city is hereby intrusted to Lieut. General P.H. Sheridan, U.S. Army."[9]

    To protect the city from looting and violence, the city was put under martial law for two weeks under Gen. Sheridan's command structure with a mix of regular troops, militia units, police, and a specially organized civilian group "First Regiment of
    Chicago Volunteers." Former Lieutenant-Governor William Bross, and part owner of the Tribune, later recollected his response to the arrival of Gen. Sheridan and his soldiers:

    "Never did deeper emotions of joy overcome me. Thank God, those most dear to me and the city as well are safe."

    For two weeks Sheridan's men patrolled the streets, guarded the relief warehouses, and enforced other regulations. On October 24 the troops were relieved of their duties and the volunteers were mustered out of service.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire

    Mayor Walter C. Jones declares martial law after the Great Galveston hurricane, 1900.

    Covered Area: Galveston, Texas
    State or Federal: State
    Duration: September 11, 1900 – September 21, 1900 (8–9 days)

    Precipitating Event: Great Galveston hurricane

    👉Declaring Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones👈
    Terminating Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones

    Relevant Presidential Proclamations or Executive Orders: None
    Civilians Tried by Military Tribunal? Yes

    Related Litigation: 43 African Americans tried by court martial, convicted, and ordered shot
    https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/guide-declarations-martial-law-united-states#top

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From risky biz@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 9 11:16:46 2023
    ~ On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:21:37 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:

    ~ "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. It is not better that all felony suspects die than that they escape. Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to the
    officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so. It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little late or
    are a little slower afoot does not always justify killing the suspect. A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead." -- Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)

    ~ Of course, riskytard thinks citizens lose all their constitutional rights when the mayor of Bumfuk, USA unilaterally declares martial law, which riskytard claims is well within his or her authority to do. That's what he said, so it must be true!
    Riskytard has a high IQ, y'know. He said so himself. Such a brilliant legal mind!


    'Martial law is the imposition of direct military control of normal civil functions or 👉suspension of civil law by a government👈, especially in response to an emergency where civil forces are overwhelmed..'

    'The martial law concept in the United States is closely tied with the right of habeas corpus, which is in essence the right to a hearing on lawful imprisonment, or more broadly, the supervision of law enforcement by the judiciary. The ability to suspend
    habeas corpus is related to the imposition of martial law.[39] Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution states, "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may
    require it.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law

    The Posse Comitatus Act does not restrict a state government
    'The Act does not prevent the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor.'

    👉'The title of the Act comes from the legal concept of posse comitatus, the authority under which a county sheriff, or other law officer, can conscript any able-bodied person to assist in keeping the peace.'👈
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act


    'The Great Chicago Fire was a conflagration that burned in the American city of Chicago during October 8–10, 1871.

    On October 11, 1871, General Philip H. Sheridan came quickly to the aid of the city and was placed in charge by 👉a proclamation, given by mayor Roswell B. Mason👈:

    "The Preservation of the Good Order and Peace of the city is hereby intrusted to Lieut. General P.H. Sheridan, U.S. Army."[9]

    To protect the city from looting and violence, the city was put under martial law for two weeks under Gen. Sheridan's command structure with a mix of regular troops, militia units, police, and a specially organized civilian group "First Regiment of
    Chicago Volunteers." Former Lieutenant-Governor William Bross, and part owner of the Tribune, later recollected his response to the arrival of Gen. Sheridan and his soldiers:

    "Never did deeper emotions of joy overcome me. Thank God, those most dear to me and the city as well are safe."

    For two weeks Sheridan's men patrolled the streets, guarded the relief warehouses, and enforced other regulations. On October 24 the troops were relieved of their duties and the volunteers were mustered out of service.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire

    Mayor Walter C. Jones declares martial law after the Great Galveston hurricane, 1900.

    Covered Area: Galveston, Texas
    State or Federal: State
    Duration: September 11, 1900 – September 21, 1900 (8–9 days)

    Precipitating Event: Great Galveston hurricane

    👉Declaring Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones👈
    Terminating Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones

    Relevant Presidential Proclamations or Executive Orders: None
    Civilians Tried by Military Tribunal? Yes

    Related Litigation: 43 African Americans tried by court martial, convicted, and ordered shot
    https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/guide-declarations-martial-law-united-states#top

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From risky biz@21:1/5 to BillB on Mon Jan 9 11:18:18 2023
    ~ On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:52:24 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:02:17 AM UTC-8, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:21:37 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is
    constitutionally unreasonable.
    .

    Well that’s a new one for me. But I’ve been out of the cop business for a long time.
    Tell me what “Constitutionally unreasonable” means and what powers does it have?
    It means a police officer would be violating a suspect's constitutional rights to use lethal force against him absent the suspect posing an imminent risk of serious physical harm to someone.
    “If, in the officer’s judgement, a fleeing felon can be a danger to the officer or others (might shoot or
    kill them) the officer is justified in shooting the fleeing felon.”

    That is not correct.
    Yea, them ain’t the exact words. But yes, you resist arrest and can be a lethal danger to the officer or
    others, you an be shot.

    ~ The suspect does not have to pose a "lethal danger" to be shot. That is not the test. The point is that law enforcement has no right to shoot a looter running away from the Dollar General with an armful of trinkets, contrary what riskytard believes.


    'Martial law is the imposition of direct military control of normal civil functions or 👉suspension of civil law by a government👈, especially in response to an emergency where civil forces are overwhelmed..'

    'The martial law concept in the United States is closely tied with the right of habeas corpus, which is in essence the right to a hearing on lawful imprisonment, or more broadly, the supervision of law enforcement by the judiciary. The ability to suspend
    habeas corpus is related to the imposition of martial law.[39] Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution states, "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may
    require it.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law

    The Posse Comitatus Act does not restrict a state government
    'The Act does not prevent the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor.'

    👉'The title of the Act comes from the legal concept of posse comitatus, the authority under which a county sheriff, or other law officer, can conscript any able-bodied person to assist in keeping the peace.'👈
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act


    'The Great Chicago Fire was a conflagration that burned in the American city of Chicago during October 8–10, 1871.

    On October 11, 1871, General Philip H. Sheridan came quickly to the aid of the city and was placed in charge by 👉a proclamation, given by mayor Roswell B. Mason👈:

    "The Preservation of the Good Order and Peace of the city is hereby intrusted to Lieut. General P.H. Sheridan, U.S. Army."[9]

    To protect the city from looting and violence, the city was put under martial law for two weeks under Gen. Sheridan's command structure with a mix of regular troops, militia units, police, and a specially organized civilian group "First Regiment of
    Chicago Volunteers." Former Lieutenant-Governor William Bross, and part owner of the Tribune, later recollected his response to the arrival of Gen. Sheridan and his soldiers:

    "Never did deeper emotions of joy overcome me. Thank God, those most dear to me and the city as well are safe."

    For two weeks Sheridan's men patrolled the streets, guarded the relief warehouses, and enforced other regulations. On October 24 the troops were relieved of their duties and the volunteers were mustered out of service.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire

    Mayor Walter C. Jones declares martial law after the Great Galveston hurricane, 1900.

    Covered Area: Galveston, Texas
    State or Federal: State
    Duration: September 11, 1900 – September 21, 1900 (8–9 days)

    Precipitating Event: Great Galveston hurricane

    👉Declaring Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones👈
    Terminating Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones

    Relevant Presidential Proclamations or Executive Orders: None
    Civilians Tried by Military Tribunal? Yes

    Related Litigation: 43 African Americans tried by court martial, convicted, and ordered shot
    https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/guide-declarations-martial-law-united-states#top

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BillB@21:1/5 to risky biz on Mon Jan 9 12:21:28 2023
    On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 11:19:46 AM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
    ~ On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 11:14:28 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:

    ~ It was, but the Court still held that Garner had a constitutional right not to be shot. I don't see why it would matter if it was a civil or criminal case.
    'Martial law is the imposition of direct military control of normal civil functions or 👉suspension of civil law by a government👈, especially in response to an emergency where civil forces are overwhelmed..'

    'The martial law concept in the United States is closely tied with the right of habeas corpus, which is in essence the right to a hearing on lawful imprisonment, or more broadly, the supervision of law enforcement by the judiciary. The ability to
    suspend habeas corpus is related to the imposition of martial law.[39] Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution states, "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public
    Safety may require it.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law

    The Posse Comitatus Act does not restrict a state government
    'The Act does not prevent the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor.'

    👉'The title of the Act comes from the legal concept of posse comitatus, the authority under which a county sheriff, or other law officer, can conscript any able-bodied person to assist in keeping the peace.'👈
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act


    'The Great Chicago Fire was a conflagration that burned in the American city of Chicago during October 8–10, 1871.

    On October 11, 1871, General Philip H. Sheridan came quickly to the aid of the city and was placed in charge by 👉a proclamation, given by mayor Roswell B. Mason👈:

    "The Preservation of the Good Order and Peace of the city is hereby intrusted to Lieut. General P.H. Sheridan, U.S. Army."[9]

    To protect the city from looting and violence, the city was put under martial law for two weeks under Gen. Sheridan's command structure with a mix of regular troops, militia units, police, and a specially organized civilian group "First Regiment of
    Chicago Volunteers." Former Lieutenant-Governor William Bross, and part owner of the Tribune, later recollected his response to the arrival of Gen. Sheridan and his soldiers:

    "Never did deeper emotions of joy overcome me. Thank God, those most dear to me and the city as well are safe."

    For two weeks Sheridan's men patrolled the streets, guarded the relief warehouses, and enforced other regulations. On October 24 the troops were relieved of their duties and the volunteers were mustered out of service.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire

    Mayor Walter C. Jones declares martial law after the Great Galveston hurricane, 1900.

    Covered Area: Galveston, Texas
    State or Federal: State
    Duration: September 11, 1900 – September 21, 1900 (8–9 days)

    Precipitating Event: Great Galveston hurricane

    👉Declaring Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones👈
    Terminating Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones

    Relevant Presidential Proclamations or Executive Orders: None
    Civilians Tried by Military Tribunal? Yes

    Related Litigation: 43 African Americans tried by court martial, convicted, and ordered shot
    https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/guide-declarations-martial-law-united-states#top

    ^^ incapable of learning.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From risky biz@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 9 17:31:57 2023
    ~ On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:21:32 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:

    🤡 Blabbermouth
    ~ ^^ incapable of learning.


    ➡️'Martial law is the imposition of direct military control of normal civil functions or 👉suspension of civil law by a government👈, especially in response to an emergency where civil forces are overwhelmed..'

    ➡️'The martial law concept in the United States is closely tied with the right of habeas corpus, which is in essence the right to a hearing on lawful imprisonment, or more broadly, the supervision of law enforcement by the judiciary. The ability to
    suspend habeas corpus is related to the imposition of martial law.[39] Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution states, "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public
    Safety may require it.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law

    ➡️The Posse Comitatus Act does not restrict a state government
    'The Act does not prevent the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor.'

    👉'The title of the Act comes from the legal concept of posse comitatus, the authority under which a county sheriff, or other law officer, can conscript any able-bodied person to assist in keeping the peace.'👈
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act


    ➡️'The Great Chicago Fire was a conflagration that burned in the American city of Chicago during October 8–10, 1871.

    On October 11, 1871, General Philip H. Sheridan came quickly to the aid of the city and was placed in charge by 👉a proclamation, given by mayor Roswell B. Mason👈:

    "The Preservation of the Good Order and Peace of the city is hereby intrusted to Lieut. General P.H. Sheridan, U.S. Army."[9]

    To protect the city from looting and violence, the city was put under martial law for two weeks under Gen. Sheridan's command structure with a mix of regular troops, militia units, police, and a specially organized civilian group "First Regiment of
    Chicago Volunteers." Former Lieutenant-Governor William Bross, and part owner of the Tribune, later recollected his response to the arrival of Gen. Sheridan and his soldiers:

    "Never did deeper emotions of joy overcome me. Thank God, those most dear to me and the city as well are safe."

    For two weeks Sheridan's men patrolled the streets, guarded the relief warehouses, and enforced other regulations. On October 24 the troops were relieved of their duties and the volunteers were mustered out of service.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire

    ➡️Mayor Walter C. Jones declares martial law after the Great Galveston hurricane, 1900.

    Covered Area: Galveston, Texas
    State or Federal: State
    Duration: September 11, 1900 – September 21, 1900 (8–9 days)

    Precipitating Event: Great Galveston hurricane

    👉Declaring Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones👈
    Terminating Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones

    Relevant Presidential Proclamations or Executive Orders: None
    Civilians Tried by Military Tribunal? Yes

    Related Litigation: 43 African Americans tried by court martial, convicted, and ordered shot
    https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/guide-declarations-martial-law-united-states#top

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BillB@21:1/5 to risky biz on Tue Jan 10 03:47:38 2023
    On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:32:01 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
    ~ On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:21:32 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:

    🤡 Blabbermouth
    ~ ^^ incapable of learning.


    ➡️'Martial law is the imposition of direct military control of normal civil functions or 👉suspension of civil law by a government👈, especially in response to an emergency where civil forces are overwhelmed..'
    ➡️'The martial law concept in the United States is closely tied with the right of habeas corpus, which is in essence the right to a hearing on lawful imprisonment, or more broadly, the supervision of law enforcement by the judiciary. The ability to
    suspend habeas corpus is related to the imposition of martial law.[39] Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution states, "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public
    Safety may require it.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law

    ➡️The Posse Comitatus Act does not restrict a state government
    'The Act does not prevent the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor.'

    👉'The title of the Act comes from the legal concept of posse comitatus, the authority under which a county sheriff, or other law officer, can conscript any able-bodied person to assist in keeping the peace.'👈
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act


    ➡️'The Great Chicago Fire was a conflagration that burned in the American city of Chicago during October 8–10, 1871.

    On October 11, 1871, General Philip H. Sheridan came quickly to the aid of the city and was placed in charge by 👉a proclamation, given by mayor Roswell B. Mason👈:

    "The Preservation of the Good Order and Peace of the city is hereby intrusted to Lieut. General P.H. Sheridan, U.S. Army."[9]

    To protect the city from looting and violence, the city was put under martial law for two weeks under Gen. Sheridan's command structure with a mix of regular troops, militia units, police, and a specially organized civilian group "First Regiment of
    Chicago Volunteers." Former Lieutenant-Governor William Bross, and part owner of the Tribune, later recollected his response to the arrival of Gen. Sheridan and his soldiers:

    "Never did deeper emotions of joy overcome me. Thank God, those most dear to me and the city as well are safe."

    For two weeks Sheridan's men patrolled the streets, guarded the relief warehouses, and enforced other regulations. On October 24 the troops were relieved of their duties and the volunteers were mustered out of service.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire

    ➡️Mayor Walter C. Jones declares martial law after the Great Galveston hurricane, 1900.

    Covered Area: Galveston, Texas
    State or Federal: State
    Duration: September 11, 1900 – September 21, 1900 (8–9 days)

    Precipitating Event: Great Galveston hurricane

    👉Declaring Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones👈
    Terminating Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones

    Relevant Presidential Proclamations or Executive Orders: None
    Civilians Tried by Military Tribunal? Yes

    Related Litigation: 43 African Americans tried by court martial, convicted, and ordered shot
    https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/guide-declarations-martial-law-united-states#top

    I already tried to explain to you why everything you have regurgitated above is totally irrelevant. Unfortunately, it all went way over your head. How much time do you expect me to waste trying to educate you when it is very clear that you have no
    interest in learning? Go back to my initial response to Jerry's question (which you ridiculed) and see if you can pinpoint what it is you think was wrong about my answer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From risky biz@21:1/5 to BillB on Tue Jan 10 09:02:58 2023
    On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 3:47:41 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:32:01 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
    ~ On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:21:32 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:

    🤡 Blabbermouth
    ~ ^^ incapable of learning.


    ➡️'Martial law is the imposition of direct military control of normal civil functions or 👉suspension of civil law by a government👈, especially in response to an emergency where civil forces are overwhelmed..'
    ➡️'The martial law concept in the United States is closely tied with the right of habeas corpus, which is in essence the right to a hearing on lawful imprisonment, or more broadly, the supervision of law enforcement by the judiciary. The ability
    to suspend habeas corpus is related to the imposition of martial law.[39] Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution states, "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public
    Safety may require it.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law

    ➡️The Posse Comitatus Act does not restrict a state government
    'The Act does not prevent the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor.'

    👉'The title of the Act comes from the legal concept of posse comitatus, the authority under which a county sheriff, or other law officer, can conscript any able-bodied person to assist in keeping the peace.'👈
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act


    ➡️'The Great Chicago Fire was a conflagration that burned in the American city of Chicago during October 8–10, 1871.

    On October 11, 1871, General Philip H. Sheridan came quickly to the aid of the city and was placed in charge by 👉a proclamation, given by mayor Roswell B. Mason👈:

    "The Preservation of the Good Order and Peace of the city is hereby intrusted to Lieut. General P.H. Sheridan, U.S. Army."[9]

    To protect the city from looting and violence, the city was put under martial law for two weeks under Gen. Sheridan's command structure with a mix of regular troops, militia units, police, and a specially organized civilian group "First Regiment of
    Chicago Volunteers." Former Lieutenant-Governor William Bross, and part owner of the Tribune, later recollected his response to the arrival of Gen. Sheridan and his soldiers:

    "Never did deeper emotions of joy overcome me. Thank God, those most dear to me and the city as well are safe."

    For two weeks Sheridan's men patrolled the streets, guarded the relief warehouses, and enforced other regulations. On October 24 the troops were relieved of their duties and the volunteers were mustered out of service.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire

    ➡️Mayor Walter C. Jones declares martial law after the Great Galveston hurricane, 1900.

    Covered Area: Galveston, Texas
    State or Federal: State
    Duration: September 11, 1900 – September 21, 1900 (8–9 days)

    Precipitating Event: Great Galveston hurricane

    👉Declaring Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones👈
    Terminating Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones

    Relevant Presidential Proclamations or Executive Orders: None
    Civilians Tried by Military Tribunal? Yes

    Related Litigation: 43 African Americans tried by court martial, convicted, and ordered shot
    https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/guide-declarations-martial-law-united-states#top


    ~ I already tried to explain to you why everything you have regurgitated above is totally irrelevant. Unfortunately, it all went way over your head. How much time do you expect me to waste trying to educate you when it is very clear that you have no
    interest in learning? Go back to my initial response to Jerry's question (which you ridiculed) and see if you can pinpoint what it is you think was wrong about my answer.


    The facts I enumerated above make it obvious that you do not have the first clue what you have been blabbing about. Anyone can see that so go ahead and put on a brave face and repeatedly declare otherwise. Do you think anyone is falling for it?

    More nonsense below:
    'I have been studying Canadian and US comparative law for over 30 years.' https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/YxZm1FcWCwAJ

    'Remember, I am an expert in comparative law (with respect to the US and Canada). I could write a couple of books on it.'
    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/pl7AE_3ir1g/m/jw9bR1qSAgAJ

    'The last case I argued would have been in 2000. I moved on to greener pastures. Running small city family, criminal, and personal injury cases was not the highest use of my enormous talents.'
    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/j0LjlxCewS0/m/c4n1CwYWAgAJ


    So you had time to be an expert in 'comparative law (with respect to the US and Canada)' while 'running small city family, criminal, and personal injury cases'? LOL.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BillB@21:1/5 to risky biz on Tue Jan 10 11:35:19 2023
    On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 9:03:02 AM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
    On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 3:47:41 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
    On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:32:01 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
    ~ On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:21:32 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:

    🤡 Blabbermouth
    ~ ^^ incapable of learning.


    ➡️'Martial law is the imposition of direct military control of normal civil functions or 👉suspension of civil law by a government👈, especially in response to an emergency where civil forces are overwhelmed..'
    ➡️'The martial law concept in the United States is closely tied with the right of habeas corpus, which is in essence the right to a hearing on lawful imprisonment, or more broadly, the supervision of law enforcement by the judiciary. The
    ability to suspend habeas corpus is related to the imposition of martial law.[39] Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution states, "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the
    public Safety may require it.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law

    ➡️The Posse Comitatus Act does not restrict a state government
    'The Act does not prevent the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor.'

    👉'The title of the Act comes from the legal concept of posse comitatus, the authority under which a county sheriff, or other law officer, can conscript any able-bodied person to assist in keeping the peace.'👈
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act


    ➡️'The Great Chicago Fire was a conflagration that burned in the American city of Chicago during October 8–10, 1871.

    On October 11, 1871, General Philip H. Sheridan came quickly to the aid of the city and was placed in charge by 👉a proclamation, given by mayor Roswell B. Mason👈:

    "The Preservation of the Good Order and Peace of the city is hereby intrusted to Lieut. General P.H. Sheridan, U.S. Army."[9]

    To protect the city from looting and violence, the city was put under martial law for two weeks under Gen. Sheridan's command structure with a mix of regular troops, militia units, police, and a specially organized civilian group "First Regiment of
    Chicago Volunteers." Former Lieutenant-Governor William Bross, and part owner of the Tribune, later recollected his response to the arrival of Gen. Sheridan and his soldiers:

    "Never did deeper emotions of joy overcome me. Thank God, those most dear to me and the city as well are safe."

    For two weeks Sheridan's men patrolled the streets, guarded the relief warehouses, and enforced other regulations. On October 24 the troops were relieved of their duties and the volunteers were mustered out of service.'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire

    ➡️Mayor Walter C. Jones declares martial law after the Great Galveston hurricane, 1900.

    Covered Area: Galveston, Texas
    State or Federal: State
    Duration: September 11, 1900 – September 21, 1900 (8–9 days)

    Precipitating Event: Great Galveston hurricane

    👉Declaring Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones👈
    Terminating Authority: Mayor Walter C. Jones

    Relevant Presidential Proclamations or Executive Orders: None
    Civilians Tried by Military Tribunal? Yes

    Related Litigation: 43 African Americans tried by court martial, convicted, and ordered shot
    https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/guide-declarations-martial-law-united-states#top
    ~ I already tried to explain to you why everything you have regurgitated above is totally irrelevant. Unfortunately, it all went way over your head. How much time do you expect me to waste trying to educate you when it is very clear that you have no
    interest in learning? Go back to my initial response to Jerry's question (which you ridiculed) and see if you can pinpoint what it is you think was wrong about my answer.


    The facts I enumerated above make it obvious that you do not have the first clue what you have been blabbing about. Anyone can see that so go ahead and put on a brave face and repeatedly declare otherwise. Do you think anyone is falling for it?

    More nonsense below:
    'I have been studying Canadian and US comparative law for over 30 years.' https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/eiSUduTpwPc/m/YxZm1FcWCwAJ

    'Remember, I am an expert in comparative law (with respect to the US and Canada). I could write a couple of books on it.'
    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/pl7AE_3ir1g/m/jw9bR1qSAgAJ

    'The last case I argued would have been in 2000. I moved on to greener pastures. Running small city family, criminal, and personal injury cases was not the highest use of my enormous talents.'
    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gambling.poker/c/j0LjlxCewS0/m/c4n1CwYWAgAJ


    So you had time to be an expert in 'comparative law (with respect to the US and Canada)' while 'running small city family, criminal, and personal injury cases'? LOL.

    ^^ Did I call it, or what? No interest in learning.

    "I already tried to explain to you why everything you have regurgitated above is totally irrelevant. Unfortunately, it all went way over your head. How much time do you expect me to waste trying to educate you when it is very clear that you have no
    interest in learning? Go back to my initial response to Jerry's question (which you ridiculed) and see if you can pinpoint what it is you think was wrong about my answer."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)