'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as taxableincome unless and until the billionaires sell.
To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in thatsame time period.
We’re going to call this their true tax rate.but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum,
It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as taxableincome unless and until the billionaires sell.
To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in thatsame time period.
We’re going to call this their true tax rate.but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum,
It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:04:00 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:income unless and until the billionaires sell.
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as taxable
same time period.To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in that
sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering
65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $
.https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.''Trump Audit Shows Depths of I.R.S. Funding Woes
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
The agency lacks the resources to go after rich taxpayers. For years, a single revenue agent was responsible for the audits of Donald J. Trump.'
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/22/us/politics/trump-audit-irs.html
As intended.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:income unless and until the billionaires sell.
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as taxable
same time period.
To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in that
but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.
We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum,
000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $65,
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:income unless and until the billionaires sell.
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as taxable
same time period.To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in that
sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering
65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
that same time period.To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in
sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering
65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
that same time period.To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in
sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering
65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?Yes?
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 7:10:12 PM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?Yes?
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:43:18 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
that same time period.To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in
staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a
about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:59:50 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:43:18 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
that same time period.To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in
staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a
about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
It looks like Blabbermouth lost his nerve.Are you for that, too?
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 9:00:04 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 7:10:12 PM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?Yes?
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
~ Does a person who makes more money and pays more taxes, does he get two or more votes?
You didn't read the data. People who make far, far more money and pay far, far less in taxes just buy the politicians that the bus drivers foolishly vote for.
~ Everything is wrong with this picture. First, there should not be tax on income. Second, if there is tax on income, the amount should not vary from person to person. Unless the person who pays more gets extra votes.
I like the idea of bus drivers, as one example, paying the SAME percentage of their wealth as mega-billionaires rather than paying a percentage of their wealth in taxes that constantly drags them down to poverty so that the wealth of mega-billionairescan rise like a helium-filled balloon.
But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those<snip>
big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a
strong motivator for many folks.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:04:03 AM UTC-5, da pickle wrote:.
<snip>
But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those<snip>
big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a strong motivator for many folks.
Except that isn't the case. The top 1% pay 39% of all federal tax, but have 55% of the income.
Those people pay at a rate which is about 71% of the average.
On 12/24/2022 1:37 AM, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 9:00:04 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 7:10:12 PM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote: >>Yes?
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
~ Does a person who makes more money and pays more taxes, does he get two or more votes?
You didn't read the data. People who make far, far more money and pay far, far less in taxes just buy the politicians that the bus drivers foolishly vote for.
~ Everything is wrong with this picture. First, there should not be tax on income. Second, if there is tax on income, the amount should not vary from person to person. Unless the person who pays more gets extra votes.
billionaires can rise like a helium-filled balloon.I like the idea of bus drivers, as one example, paying the SAME percentage of their wealth as mega-billionaires rather than paying a percentage of their wealth in taxes that constantly drags them down to poverty so that the wealth of mega-
earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those
big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a
strong motivator for many folks.
And "earnings" are not the way folks usually define bus drivers or billionaires. Property tax increases really hit the middle class folks
with a bang ... the home they worked for goes up in value and they did
not go up in income to pay the new taxes and have to sell and move.
And if you tax unrealized gains in assets, you set off a monster that
even you could not ride out.
Paul wondered if if those that pay taxes should have more say in the
matter than those that do not pay taxes.
Why should those who benefit from those taxes that they do not pay have
the same "vote" as those who pay those taxes?
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:38:35 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:59:50 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:43:18 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
in that same time period.To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew
staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a
about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
It looks like Blabbermouth lost his nerve.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:04:03 AM UTC-5, da pickle wrote:
<snip>
But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their<snip>
earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those
big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a
strong motivator for many folks.
Except that isn't the case. The top 1% pay 39% of all federal tax, but have 55% of the income.
Those people pay at a rate which is about 71% of the average.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 6:04:03 AM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:billionaires can rise like a helium-filled balloon.
On 12/24/2022 1:37 AM, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 9:00:04 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 7:10:12 PM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote: >>>>Yes?
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
~ Does a person who makes more money and pays more taxes, does he get two or more votes?
You didn't read the data. People who make far, far more money and pay far, far less in taxes just buy the politicians that the bus drivers foolishly vote for.
~ Everything is wrong with this picture. First, there should not be tax on income. Second, if there is tax on income, the amount should not vary from person to person. Unless the person who pays more gets extra votes.
I like the idea of bus drivers, as one example, paying the SAME percentage of their wealth as mega-billionaires rather than paying a percentage of their wealth in taxes that constantly drags them down to poverty so that the wealth of mega-
~ But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their
earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those
big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a
strong motivator for many folks.
And "earnings" are not the way folks usually define bus drivers or
billionaires. Property tax increases really hit the middle class folks
with a bang ... the home they worked for goes up in value and they did
not go up in income to pay the new taxes and have to sell and move.
And if you tax unrealized gains in assets, you set off a monster that
even you could not ride out.
Paul wondered if if those that pay taxes should have more say in the
matter than those that do not pay taxes.
Why should those who benefit from those taxes that they do not pay have
the same "vote" as those who pay those taxes?
You threw me on that one, Pickle. How does a bus driver pay less when a mega-billionare pays ZERO?000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
And:
'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $65,
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
Their entire increase in wealth in those years was offset by income taxes. Not so for the mega-Bs. Not even in the same universe.
On 12/24/2022 3:47 PM, risky biz wrote:billionaires can rise like a helium-filled balloon.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 6:04:03 AM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:
On 12/24/2022 1:37 AM, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 9:00:04 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 7:10:12 PM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote: >>>>>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote: >>>>
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?Yes?
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
~ Does a person who makes more money and pays more taxes, does he get two or more votes?
You didn't read the data. People who make far, far more money and pay far, far less in taxes just buy the politicians that the bus drivers foolishly vote for.
~ Everything is wrong with this picture. First, there should not be tax on income. Second, if there is tax on income, the amount should not vary from person to person. Unless the person who pays more gets extra votes.
I like the idea of bus drivers, as one example, paying the SAME percentage of their wealth as mega-billionaires rather than paying a percentage of their wealth in taxes that constantly drags them down to poverty so that the wealth of mega-
~ But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their
earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those
big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a
strong motivator for many folks.
And "earnings" are not the way folks usually define bus drivers or
billionaires. Property tax increases really hit the middle class folks
with a bang ... the home they worked for goes up in value and they did
not go up in income to pay the new taxes and have to sell and move.
And if you tax unrealized gains in assets, you set off a monster that
even you could not ride out.
Paul wondered if if those that pay taxes should have more say in the
matter than those that do not pay taxes.
Why should those who benefit from those taxes that they do not pay have >> the same "vote" as those who pay those taxes?
65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'You threw me on that one, Pickle. How does a bus driver pay less when a mega-billionare pays ZERO?
And:
'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
Their entire increase in wealth in those years was offset by income taxes. Not so for the mega-Bs. Not even in the same universe.Some bus drivers do not pay any income tax at all. Some billionaires
with large taxable incomes pay a lot in taxes. One size does not fit
all. Do government employees pay any taxes at all with money that was
NOT paid first by non-government employees? Do government employees
earn any "money" at all that is NOT paid first by non-government
employees? [Or just printed.]
Indeed, where would any "income taxes" come from were it NOT for non-government income?
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 10:39:45 AM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote:so the rich can keep selling you on that. Those numbers are what it ‘should’ be, “according to the tax rates.” Tell us where you got those numbers you posted?
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:04:03 AM UTC-5, da pickle wrote: <snip>
But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a strong motivator for many folks.<snip>
Except that isn't the case. The top 1% pay 39% of all federal tax, but have 55% of the income.
Those people pay at a rate which is about 71% of the average..
No. I thought I had least I got you people to understand the Republican chant of, “The rich pay more taxes than everybody else,” was just more right-wing (Republican generated) bullshit. The very reason you can’t see everybody else’s taxes is
Every once in a while it slips out where the very rich pay no taxes that year. Look at Trump returns. Look at that year that Exxon was the biggest profit maker in the country and they paid NO taxes. (And the still got $50,000 in government subsidies).��Everybody else will have to pay a little more to make up for it.”
The very reason the rich bribe their politicians is to invent new ‘Deduction.’ If you really wanted to make taxes fair, you’d remove ALL deduction. “Deduction” is another word for, “I don’t have to pay this part of my taxes, which means, �
The tax code is LOADED with loopholes and ‘special’ deduction. One that slipped out was the extra special deduction for private jets. All the rich could say was, “Well, everybody gets to use that extra special deduction.”redid his taxes and got back millions of dollars. When it was found out, he simply said, “It’s not just for me. Everybody gets to use that law.”
Texas billionaire Ross Perot once went to his Texas politicians and dropped a check for $1,200 (I believe), the maximum allowed, and asked them to write a special tax law that allowed a person to write business losses into previous years. They did. He
So how do you know those numbers and percentages were right?
Indeed, where would any "income taxes" come from were it NOT for non-government income?
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:54:33 PM UTC-5, VegasJerry wrote:so the rich can keep selling you on that. Those numbers are what it ‘should’ be, “according to the tax rates.” Tell us where you got those numbers you posted?
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 10:39:45 AM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:04:03 AM UTC-5, da pickle wrote: <snip>
But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a strong motivator for many folks.<snip>
Except that isn't the case. The top 1% pay 39% of all federal tax, but have 55% of the income.
Those people pay at a rate which is about 71% of the average..
No. I thought I had least I got you people to understand the Republican chant of, “The rich pay more taxes than everybody else,” was just more right-wing (Republican generated) bullshit. The very reason you can’t see everybody else’s taxes is
Every once in a while it slips out where the very rich pay no taxes that year. Look at Trump returns. Look at that year that Exxon was the biggest profit maker in the country and they paid NO taxes. (And the still got $50,000 in government subsidies).
“Everybody else will have to pay a little more to make up for it.”The very reason the rich bribe their politicians is to invent new ‘Deduction.’ If you really wanted to make taxes fair, you’d remove ALL deduction. “Deduction” is another word for, “I don’t have to pay this part of my taxes, which means,
He redid his taxes and got back millions of dollars. When it was found out, he simply said, “It’s not just for me. Everybody gets to use that law.”The tax code is LOADED with loopholes and ‘special’ deduction. One that slipped out was the extra special deduction for private jets. All the rich could say was, “Well, everybody gets to use that extra special deduction.”
Texas billionaire Ross Perot once went to his Texas politicians and dropped a check for $1,200 (I believe), the maximum allowed, and asked them to write a special tax law that allowed a person to write business losses into previous years. They did.
.So how do you know those numbers and percentages were right?
From the standard government figures. it's not hard..
On 12/24/2022 12:39 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:04:03 AM UTC-5, da pickle wrote:
<snip>
But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their<snip>
earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those
big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a
strong motivator for many folks.
Except that isn't the case. The top 1% pay 39% of all federal tax, but have 55% of the income.
Those people pay at a rate which is about 71% of the average.So what? The top 10% pay almost all of the income taxes ...
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 6:04:03 AM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:
On 12/24/2022 1:37 AM, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 9:00:04 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 7:10:12 PM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote: >>>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote: >>
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?Yes?
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
~ Does a person who makes more money and pays more taxes, does he get two or more votes?
You didn't read the data. People who make far, far more money and pay far, far less in taxes just buy the politicians that the bus drivers foolishly vote for.
~ Everything is wrong with this picture. First, there should not be tax on income. Second, if there is tax on income, the amount should not vary from person to person. Unless the person who pays more gets extra votes.
billionaires can rise like a helium-filled balloon.I like the idea of bus drivers, as one example, paying the SAME percentage of their wealth as mega-billionaires rather than paying a percentage of their wealth in taxes that constantly drags them down to poverty so that the wealth of mega-
~ But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those
big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a strong motivator for many folks.
And "earnings" are not the way folks usually define bus drivers or billionaires. Property tax increases really hit the middle class folks with a bang ... the home they worked for goes up in value and they did
not go up in income to pay the new taxes and have to sell and move.
And if you tax unrealized gains in assets, you set off a monster that
even you could not ride out.
Paul wondered if if those that pay taxes should have more say in the matter than those that do not pay taxes.
Why should those who benefit from those taxes that they do not pay have the same "vote" as those who pay those taxes?You threw me on that one, Pickle. How does a bus driver pay less when a mega-billionare pays ZERO?
And:
'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $65,
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax.
Their entire increase in wealth in those years was offset by income taxes. Not so for the mega-Bs. Not even in the same universe.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:23:17 PM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:
.Indeed, where would any "income taxes" come from were it NOT for non-government income?Tariffs, and excise taxes. Enough to finance a constitutionally limited small government.
But that's moot now, they are at this very moment making plans to completely do away with the income tax..
They will replace it with the Inflation Tax. And no one will know who to complain about.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:income unless and until the billionaires sell.
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as taxable
same time period.
To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in that
but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.
We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum,
000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $65,
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
What happened to 'Mitt Romney's 41%?" Who pay no taxes/on government assistance in some way or other.?
It really is (with regard to actual tax returns, taxes paid) the suburban and condo-urban middle/upper-middle class who are funding the whole thing; Gates-like billionaires provide jobs from which the taxes are generated; and government jobs (that allseem to start @ $100,000/yr with phony overtime "these days"); the days of government jobs characterized as "We don't make much, but have a lotta fun and have great benefits" are long gone: they now get all that, plus make more in salary than the private
Billionaire assets-on-paper: are they any different in concept than job-holders' 401k plans and federal, state and municipal, government pensions that are also assets-on-paper throughout a typical work-history.
An individual who gets, say, a $60,000/yr government pension /401(k). How much money would they have to have in an investment account of some kind to generate $60,000 in cash withdrawal every year? A shitload.
Just more variables to consider.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:47:12 PM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote:so the rich can keep selling you on that. Those numbers are what it ‘should’ be, “according to the tax rates.” Tell us where you got those numbers you posted?
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:54:33 PM UTC-5, VegasJerry wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 10:39:45 AM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>> On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:04:03 AM UTC-5, da pickle wrote:
<snip>.
But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their >>>>> earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those >>>>> big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a >>>>> strong motivator for many folks.<snip>
Except that isn't the case. The top 1% pay 39% of all federal tax, but have 55% of the income.
Those people pay at a rate which is about 71% of the average.
No. I thought I had least I got you people to understand the Republican chant of, “The rich pay more taxes than everybody else,” was just more right-wing (Republican generated) bullshit. The very reason you can’t see everybody else’s taxes is
“Everybody else will have to pay a little more to make up for it.”
Every once in a while it slips out where the very rich pay no taxes that year. Look at Trump returns. Look at that year that Exxon was the biggest profit maker in the country and they paid NO taxes. (And the still got $50,000 in government subsidies).
The very reason the rich bribe their politicians is to invent new ‘Deduction.’ If you really wanted to make taxes fair, you’d remove ALL deduction. “Deduction” is another word for, “I don’t have to pay this part of my taxes, which means,
He redid his taxes and got back millions of dollars. When it was found out, he simply said, “It’s not just for me. Everybody gets to use that law.”
The tax code is LOADED with loopholes and ‘special’ deduction. One that slipped out was the extra special deduction for private jets. All the rich could say was, “Well, everybody gets to use that extra special deduction.”
Texas billionaire Ross Perot once went to his Texas politicians and dropped a check for $1,200 (I believe), the maximum allowed, and asked them to write a special tax law that allowed a person to write business losses into previous years. They did.
.
So how do you know those numbers and percentages were right?
From the standard government figures. it's not hard..
Ye, it is. How do you know that is the actual amount paid? I know what the charts say they're 'supposed' to pay
but as I've shown, that doesn't happen.
There are posted speed limits on a road next to me. But what's the reality? In this case, we know of people that
don't pay those percentages in taxes. They just posted Trumps. And a number of large corporations have shown
they pay NO taxes. And you should have seen mine in my money-making days. We had a discussion a few years
back about how much taxis I actually paid on some book Royalities. You should see the wonderful loopholes
build into artist incomes.
So 'how do you know your numbers' are what actually get's paid?
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as taxableincome unless and until the billionaires sell.
To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in thatsame time period.
We’re going to call this their true tax rate.but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum,
It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 5:23:17 PM UTC-5, da pickle wrote:billionaires can rise like a helium-filled balloon.
On 12/24/2022 3:47 PM, risky biz wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 6:04:03 AM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:
On 12/24/2022 1:37 AM, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 9:00:04 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 7:10:12 PM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote: >>>>>>>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote: >>>>>>
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?Yes?
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
~ Does a person who makes more money and pays more taxes, does he get two or more votes?
You didn't read the data. People who make far, far more money and pay far, far less in taxes just buy the politicians that the bus drivers foolishly vote for.
~ Everything is wrong with this picture. First, there should not be tax on income. Second, if there is tax on income, the amount should not vary from person to person. Unless the person who pays more gets extra votes.
I like the idea of bus drivers, as one example, paying the SAME percentage of their wealth as mega-billionaires rather than paying a percentage of their wealth in taxes that constantly drags them down to poverty so that the wealth of mega-
65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
~ But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their >>>> earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those
big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a
strong motivator for many folks.
And "earnings" are not the way folks usually define bus drivers or
billionaires. Property tax increases really hit the middle class folks >>>> with a bang ... the home they worked for goes up in value and they did >>>> not go up in income to pay the new taxes and have to sell and move.
And if you tax unrealized gains in assets, you set off a monster that
even you could not ride out.
Paul wondered if if those that pay taxes should have more say in the
matter than those that do not pay taxes.
Why should those who benefit from those taxes that they do not pay have >>>> the same "vote" as those who pay those taxes?
You threw me on that one, Pickle. How does a bus driver pay less when a mega-billionare pays ZERO?
And:
'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-taxSome bus drivers do not pay any income tax at all. Some billionaires
Their entire increase in wealth in those years was offset by income taxes. Not so for the mega-Bs. Not even in the same universe.
with large taxable incomes pay a lot in taxes. One size does not fit
all. Do government employees pay any taxes at all with money that was
NOT paid first by non-government employees? Do government employees
earn any "money" at all that is NOT paid first by non-government
employees? [Or just printed.]
Indeed, where would any "income taxes" come from were it NOT for
non-government income?
That's called moving the goalposts.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 1:47:55 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 6:04:03 AM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:
On 12/24/2022 1:37 AM, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 9:00:04 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 7:10:12 PM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote: >>>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?Yes?
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
~ Does a person who makes more money and pays more taxes, does he get two or more votes?
You didn't read the data. People who make far, far more money and pay far, far less in taxes just buy the politicians that the bus drivers foolishly vote for.
~ Everything is wrong with this picture. First, there should not be tax on income. Second, if there is tax on income, the amount should not vary from person to person. Unless the person who pays more gets extra votes.
billionaires can rise like a helium-filled balloon.I like the idea of bus drivers, as one example, paying the SAME percentage of their wealth as mega-billionaires rather than paying a percentage of their wealth in taxes that constantly drags them down to poverty so that the wealth of mega-
65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'~ But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their
earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a strong motivator for many folks.
And "earnings" are not the way folks usually define bus drivers or billionaires. Property tax increases really hit the middle class folks with a bang ... the home they worked for goes up in value and they did not go up in income to pay the new taxes and have to sell and move.
And if you tax unrealized gains in assets, you set off a monster that even you could not ride out.
Paul wondered if if those that pay taxes should have more say in the matter than those that do not pay taxes.
Why should those who benefit from those taxes that they do not pay have the same "vote" as those who pay those taxes?You threw me on that one, Pickle. How does a bus driver pay less when a mega-billionare pays ZERO?
And:
'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $
conditions, or "You've reached your insurance limits." So they dump you. Before Obamacare fixed that, 80% of the home foreclosures in Vegas were marked "Medical."https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
Their entire increase in wealth in those years was offset by income taxes. Not so for the mega-Bs. Not even in the same universe..
And a large portion of those people aged and had medical problems. Something like one in 3 of us get cancer, or some other debilitating disease. And you're good old Republican Party allowed medical insurance companies to drop you for preexisting
Even today, Trump and the Republicans still have a case in front of the SC to do just that, again. (With my pills costing $1,500 a day, Republicans still block Medicare from negotiating win Big Pharma).
And still NOBOBY will say why they vote Republican.
On Sunday, December 25, 2022 at 8:37:05 AM UTC-8, VegasJerry wrote:billionaires can rise like a helium-filled balloon.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 1:47:55 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 6:04:03 AM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:
On 12/24/2022 1:37 AM, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 9:00:04 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 7:10:12 PM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote: >>>>>>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote: >>>>>>>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote: >>>>>>
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?Yes?
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
~ Does a person who makes more money and pays more taxes, does he get two or more votes?
You didn't read the data. People who make far, far more money and pay far, far less in taxes just buy the politicians that the bus drivers foolishly vote for.
~ Everything is wrong with this picture. First, there should not be tax on income. Second, if there is tax on income, the amount should not vary from person to person. Unless the person who pays more gets extra votes.
I like the idea of bus drivers, as one example, paying the SAME percentage of their wealth as mega-billionaires rather than paying a percentage of their wealth in taxes that constantly drags them down to poverty so that the wealth of mega-
65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'~ But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their >>>> earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those
big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is aYou threw me on that one, Pickle. How does a bus driver pay less when a mega-billionare pays ZERO?
strong motivator for many folks.
And "earnings" are not the way folks usually define bus drivers or
billionaires. Property tax increases really hit the middle class folks >>>> with a bang ... the home they worked for goes up in value and they did >>>> not go up in income to pay the new taxes and have to sell and move.
And if you tax unrealized gains in assets, you set off a monster that
even you could not ride out.
Paul wondered if if those that pay taxes should have more say in the
matter than those that do not pay taxes.
Why should those who benefit from those taxes that they do not pay have >>>> the same "vote" as those who pay those taxes?
And:
'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $
conditions, or "You've reached your insurance limits." So they dump you. Before Obamacare fixed that, 80% of the home foreclosures in Vegas were marked "Medical."https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax.
Their entire increase in wealth in those years was offset by income taxes. Not so for the mega-Bs. Not even in the same universe.
And a large portion of those people aged and had medical problems. Something like one in 3 of us get cancer, or some other debilitating disease. And you're good old Republican Party allowed medical insurance companies to drop you for preexisting
Even today, Trump and the Republicans still have a case in front of the SC to do just that, again. (With my pills costing $1,500 a day, Republicans still block Medicare from negotiating win Big Pharma).
And still NOBOBY will say why they vote Republican.
And STILL can't say. Do you mean you've finally seen the light and you'll stop voting against yourself
and your family?
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:47:12 PM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote:is so the rich can keep selling you on that. Those numbers are what it ‘should’ be, “according to the tax rates.” Tell us where you got those numbers you posted?
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:54:33 PM UTC-5, VegasJerry wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 10:39:45 AM UTC-8, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:04:03 AM UTC-5, da pickle wrote: <snip>
But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their<snip>
earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those
big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a
strong motivator for many folks.
Except that isn't the case. The top 1% pay 39% of all federal tax, but have 55% of the income.
Those people pay at a rate which is about 71% of the average..
No. I thought I had least I got you people to understand the Republican chant of, “The rich pay more taxes than everybody else,” was just more right-wing (Republican generated) bullshit. The very reason you can’t see everybody else’s taxes
subsidies).Every once in a while it slips out where the very rich pay no taxes that year. Look at Trump returns. Look at that year that Exxon was the biggest profit maker in the country and they paid NO taxes. (And the still got $50,000 in government
means, “Everybody else will have to pay a little more to make up for it.”The very reason the rich bribe their politicians is to invent new ‘Deduction.’ If you really wanted to make taxes fair, you’d remove ALL deduction. “Deduction” is another word for, “I don’t have to pay this part of my taxes, which
He redid his taxes and got back millions of dollars. When it was found out, he simply said, “It’s not just for me. Everybody gets to use that law.”The tax code is LOADED with loopholes and ‘special’ deduction. One that slipped out was the extra special deduction for private jets. All the rich could say was, “Well, everybody gets to use that extra special deduction.”
Texas billionaire Ross Perot once went to his Texas politicians and dropped a check for $1,200 (I believe), the maximum allowed, and asked them to write a special tax law that allowed a person to write business losses into previous years. They did.
.So how do you know those numbers and percentages were right?
From the standard government figures. it's not hard..
Ye, it is. How do you know that is the actual amount paid? I know what the charts say they're 'supposed' to pay
but as I've shown, that doesn't happen.
There are posted speed limits on a road next to me. But what's the reality? In this case, we know of people that
don't pay those percentages in taxes. They just posted Trumps. And a number of large corporations have shown
they pay NO taxes. And you should have seen mine in my money-making days. We had a discussion a few years
back about how much taxis I actually paid on some book Royalities. You should see the wonderful loopholes
build into artist incomes.
So 'how do you know your numbers' are what actually get's paid?
On 12/24/2022 12:39 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:04:03 AM UTC-5, da pickle wrote:
<snip>
But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their<snip>
earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those
big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a
strong motivator for many folks.
Except that isn't the case. The top 1% pay 39% of all federal tax, but have 55% of the income.
Those people pay at a rate which is about 71% of the average.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:10:14 PM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:
On 12/24/2022 12:39 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:04:03 AM UTC-5, da pickle wrote:
<snip>
But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their >>>> earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those<snip>
big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a
strong motivator for many folks.
Except that isn't the case. The top 1% pay 39% of all federal tax, but have 55% of the income.
Those people pay at a rate which is about 71% of the average.
~ So what? The top 10% pay almost all of the income taxes ...
In 2018 taxpayers with incomes of $5,000,000 - $10,000,000 paid about 4% of all Federal Income Tax and taxpayers with incomes of less than $40,000 also paid about 4% of all Federal Income Tax.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
that same time period.To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in
sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering
65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:38:35 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:59:50 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:43:18 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
in that same time period.To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew
staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a
about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Yes, I was going to make a comment but at the last second I realized that I was only 99.6% sure I was correct, which falls well short of my posting quality assurance standardsIt looks like Blabbermouth lost his nerve.Are you for that, too?
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
same time period.
To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in that
sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.
We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering
65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
Nice dodge
Yes on income, not "on paper" gains. Elon paid 11 billion in taxes last year, is that not enough? Hint, he paid that much because he sold stock with real gains, not paper gains. Simple enough for you?
On 12/26/2022 10:50 AM, BTSinAustin wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
that same time period.
To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in
sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.
We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering
$65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
Nice dodge
Yes on income, not "on paper" gains. Elon paid 11 billion in taxes last year, is that not enough? Hint, he paid that much because he sold stock with real gains, not paper gains. Simple enough for you?
he is smarter than he is pretending to be.
On 12/26/2022 7:00 AM, risky biz wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:10:14 PM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:
On 12/24/2022 12:39 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:04:03 AM UTC-5, da pickle wrote:
<snip>
But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their >>>> earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those >>>> big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a >>>> strong motivator for many folks.<snip>
Except that isn't the case. The top 1% pay 39% of all federal tax, but have 55% of the income.
Those people pay at a rate which is about 71% of the average.
~ So what? The top 10% pay almost all of the income taxes ...
In 2018 taxpayers with incomes of $5,000,000 - $10,000,000 paid about 4% of all Federal Income Tax and taxpayers with incomes of less than $40,000 also paid about 4% of all Federal Income Tax.
On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 9:16:56 AM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On 12/26/2022 10:50 AM, BTSinAustin wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote: >>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote: >>>> 'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
that same time period.
To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in
staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.
We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a
about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
Nice dodge
~ I really like risky ... I am not sure what this is all about. I thinkYes on income, not "on paper" gains. Elon paid 11 billion in taxes last year, is that not enough? Hint, he paid that much because he sold stock with real gains, not paper gains. Simple enough for you?
he is smarter than he is pretending to be.
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'.
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
that same time period.To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in
staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a
about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
Yes on income, not "on paper" gains.
On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 8:50:07 AM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
that same time period.To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in
staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a
about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
~ Nice dodgeAre you for that, too?
Not really. It should be obvious that I'm in favor of some form of tax on growth in wealth given what I posted.
Yes on income, not "on paper" gains.~ Elon paid 11 billion in taxes last year, is that not enough? Hint, he paid that much because he sold stock with real gains, not paper gains. Simple enough for you?
On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 6:40:10 AM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:
On 12/26/2022 7:00 AM, risky biz wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:10:14 PM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:
On 12/24/2022 12:39 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:04:03 AM UTC-5, da pickle wrote: >>>>> <snip>
But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their >>>>>> earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those >>>>>> big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a >>>>>> strong motivator for many folks.<snip>
Except that isn't the case. The top 1% pay 39% of all federal tax, but have 55% of the income.
Those people pay at a rate which is about 71% of the average.
~ So what? The top 10% pay almost all of the income taxes ...
In 2018 taxpayers with incomes of $5,000,000 - $10,000,000 paid about 4% of all Federal Income Tax and taxpayers with incomes of less than $40,000 also paid about 4% of all Federal Income Tax.
~ Cherry picking is for Blab, not you risky.
It directly addressed your assertion.
On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 9:16:56 AM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On 12/26/2022 10:50 AM, BTSinAustin wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote: >>>>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
that same time period.
To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in
sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.
We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering
$65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
Nice dodge
Yes on income, not "on paper" gains. Elon paid 11 billion in taxes last year, is that not enough? Hint, he paid that much because he sold stock with real gains, not paper gains. Simple enough for you?
~ I really like risky ... I am not sure what this is all about. I think
he is smarter than he is pretending to be.
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 1:19:57 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 8:50:07 AM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote: >>>>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
that same time period.
To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in
sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.
We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering
$65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about
~ Nice dodgehttps://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
Not really. It should be obvious that I'm in favor of some form of tax on growth in wealth given what I posted.
Yes on income, not "on paper" gains.~ Elon paid 11 billion in taxes last year, is that not enough? Hint, he paid that much because he sold stock with real gains, not paper gains. Simple enough for you?
~ You will have to provide evidence of that. You're basing that assertion on what journalists have said would be his superficial taxable obligation for that year. That's before his army of devious tax accountants worked their magic.
Wealth, income and taxes for four of the richest people in the country from 2014 to 2018.
Elon Musk, Tesla Inc.
Wealth Growth $13.9B
Total Income Reported $1.52B
Total Taxes Paid $455M
'True Tax Rate' 3.27%
In 2015, he [Elon Musk] paid $68,000 in federal income tax. In 2017, it was $65,000, and in 2018 he paid no federal income tax. Between 2014 and 2018, he had a true tax rate of 3.27%.
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
On 12/26/2022 2:59 PM, risky biz wrote:
On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 6:40:10 AM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:
On 12/26/2022 7:00 AM, risky biz wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:10:14 PM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:
On 12/24/2022 12:39 PM, Tim Norfolk wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:04:03 AM UTC-5, da pickle wrote: >>>>> <snip>
But people with buys driver earnings pay a significantly less of their >>>>>> earnings in taxes than mega-billionaires pay of their earnings. Those >>>>>> big guys and girls pay a lot more sales taxes in total too. Envy is a >>>>>> strong motivator for many folks.<snip>
Except that isn't the case. The top 1% pay 39% of all federal tax, but have 55% of the income.
Those people pay at a rate which is about 71% of the average.
~ So what? The top 10% pay almost all of the income taxes ...
In 2018 taxpayers with incomes of $5,000,000 - $10,000,000 paid about 4% of all Federal Income Tax and taxpayers with incomes of less than $40,000 also paid about 4% of all Federal Income Tax.
~ Cherry picking is for Blab, not you risky.
.It directly addressed your assertion.
It was a swing at my post that taxation is a very broad subject and most posts are too general for the specific ... you assertion is a swing and.
a miss.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 12:40:25 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:as taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:38:35 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:59:50 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:43:18 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws
grew in that same time period.To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth
staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a
by about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
~ Yes, I was going to make a comment but at the last second I realized that I was only 99.6% sure I was correct,It looks like Blabbermouth lost his nerve.
which falls well short of my posting quality assurance standards. I was so flustered by the close call that I hit "post message" instead of the trash icon.
You decided to not embarrass yourself yet again with your 99.6% lies about Bernie Sanders.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 3:40:25 AM UTC-5, BillB wrote:as taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:38:35 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:59:50 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:43:18 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote:
'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws
grew in that same time period.To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth
staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a
by about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
It would be interesting to see how much you have talked about how great you are over the years. What maybe 70% of your RGP traffic. Was your mommy not loving enough?Yes, I was going to make a comment but at the last second I realized that I was only 99.6% sure I was correct, which falls well short of my posting quality assurance standardsIt looks like Blabbermouth lost his nerve.Are you for that, too?
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 1:49:58 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 12:40:25 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:38:35 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:59:50 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:43:18 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote: >>>>>>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote: >>>>>>>> 'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
that same time period.
To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in
staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.
We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a
about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by
~ Yes, I was going to make a comment but at the last second I realized that I was only 99.6% sure I was correct,~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
It looks like Blabbermouth lost his nerve.
which falls well short of my posting quality assurance standards. I was so flustered by the close call that I hit "post message" instead of the trash icon.
You decided to not embarrass yourself yet again with your 99.6% lies about Bernie Sanders.
What "lies" did I tell about Bernie Sanders?
On Tuesday, December 27, 2022 at 5:35:29 AM UTC-8, da pickle wrote:taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell.
On 12/27/2022 12:10 AM, BillB wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 1:49:58 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 12:40:25 AM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:38:35 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote: >>>>>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:59:50 PM UTC-8, BillB wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:43:18 PM UTC-8, risky biz wrote: >>>>>>>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:43:15 PM UTC-8, BTSinAustin wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:04:00 PM UTC-5, risky biz wrote: >>>>>>>>>> 'America’s billionaires avail themselves of tax-avoidance strategies beyond the reach of ordinary people. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as
in that same time period.
To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew
staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.
We’re going to call this their true tax rate.
The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a
about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period.'
It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by
Ah, convenient memory loss.~ Yes, I was going to make a comment but at the last second I realized that I was only 99.6% sure I was correct,~ So you're for unrealized capital gains tax?https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
'The 2018 income tax bill for the 25 richest came to a total $1.9 billion, which is a huge amount ... until you see how much the group of wage earners paid in income tax that same year: $143 billion.'
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-short-form-a-quick-guide-to-what-we-uncovered
I'm for people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos paying the same percentage of their wealth as every bus driver.
Are you for that, too?
It looks like Blabbermouth lost his nerve.
which falls well short of my posting quality assurance standards. I was so flustered by the close call that I hit "post message" instead of the trash icon.
You decided to not embarrass yourself yet again with your 99.6% lies about Bernie Sanders.
What "lies" did I tell about Bernie Sanders?
No, just the knowledge that I don't lie.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 715 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 00:06:16 |
| Calls: | 12,097 |
| Calls today: | 5 |
| Files: | 15,003 |
| Messages: | 6,517,857 |